The FAB53 '72 Nova

[Nessumsar]

I have finally taken on an actual project on my Nova, so I guess its fitting to start a project thread!

First, the back story:
It all started about 3 years ago. I forget how it came up, but my friend Matt (-The Stig-) was trying to sell his 72 Nova; and it just so happened that I was in the market for a fun car (amazing how that happens). He bought it from a kid who blew the motor, so he had built a mild 383 and TH350 for it, which were in, but never finished.

After a couple months of piecing the car together, and working on it in my parent's driveway, it was alive! I drove it around a while with the sloppy stock suspension and steering, and the hard flat-spotted Dunlop Qualifier GTs. Alas I eventually I grew old of the boat-like handling and wanted to do something about it, but what?

I stumbled upon Pro-Touring while researching Trans Am suspensions and shortly thereafter I had a plan. After some sums of money were handed over to various companies, I had the "Starter Kit" to pro-touring: Hotchkis coils and leafs, an Addco front bar, shocks, some 17x9s wrapped in 255s, Brembo blank rotors, and Hawk pads. Boy did this make a difference!

I drove the car like this for another year and a half, hitting as many autocrosses as my budget would allow. I attended RTTC 1, and placed mid-pack in each event; I was stoked! Fast forward to this past September where a group of us PTers attended an autocross at the Camarillo Airport; I started talking to Brett Campbell (67z06camaro), and he offered to do some work on my car in exchange for promoting his new company, Fab-53. Sign me up!

And here we are.

The plan:
Lower the car to a frame ground clearance of ~4", correct the front suspension geometry problems associated with being so low, stiffen the front suspension assembly to accommodate the addition forces created, tuck the exhaust up above the frame rails, 315x35x17s on all four corners, create fender flares, install sub frame connectors, and install my C5 brake upgrade. All the while trying to keep my budget "theme" (read: constraints).

To battle the front-end geometry we will be performing the CR Mod (Campbell/Rasmussen), which is a sort of reverse Gulstrand Mod. We will move the LCA's frame-pivot point upward ~.75" along with outboard ~.75". Coupling that with tall lower ball joints and the LCAs should be near parallel to the ground at ride height and the camber-gain should be greatly improved. Another benefit to moving the LCA is it helps with the dreaded bump-steer as it gets the LCA and tierods onto the same plain. We will also be spacing the steering arm on the spindle to clear the wider wheels. To stiffen the front frame/suspension assembly we will be boxing and bracing portions of the sub frame, and trimming and boxing the stock LCAs.

Proposed ride height with tire test fit (only fenders have been cut at this point):
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Pie cuts and clearancing of the LCA:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The reason for doing those pie cuts is that when the LCA is mounted further up the swaybar runs into the arm early on in the suspension travel. Bending the arm like this fixes that.

Pie cut to flatten the angle of the LBJ:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

LBJ gusseted and plated:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

LCA relocated and pie cuts filled:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Wrap around gussets on LCA:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

At ride height with allignment done:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

We also modified the UCAs for greater caster but I didn't get a picture of that. With a single 1/8" shim on the front of the UCA we have 1.5* neg camber and 5.5* caster. In 2" of suspension compression we have a gain of 4* camber IIRC.

This is how she will look untill after RTTC2. After that we will install the subframe connectors, fender flares, and my C5 brakes.

[carguy502]

I can't wait to see your car at RTTC II. Your pic in the show off your ride section had me very curious...

Don

[monteboy84]

Subscribed. This looks like fun, I like your fabrication so far.

-matt

[Bryce]

Awesome!

[Nessumsar]

Subscribed. This looks like fun, I like your fabrication so far.

-matt

Brett is pretty handy when it comes to fabrication. He can visualize something and then put it on paper/metal with ease, pretty impressive really.

[Motorcitydak]

Really cool car man. Its nice to finally find another car that will run the same size tires as me front and rear, makes me feel more normal. Im using 18 inch rims but I think the height will be the same. I can see in the pics that the rears do not stick out as far as the fronts do. Are you going to push the rears out to match the fronts?

[LT1Nova]

Sign me up for updates too. Looks interesting and I definitely like things build with budget constraints as I can relate.

[Flash68]

Very cool car Jon! Love the 315s in front. Will check it out this weekend!

[ssmike]

Looking forward to seeing the updates Jon.....very cool and ambitious project.

[johnny68]

jon cant wait to see it sat.very cool front end deal
john

[TheBandit]

Do you have any links to info other info on the CR mod you're doing? Are you doing this in combination with a G-mod or using the factory UCA pivot location? Did you make a jig of some kind to locate the LCA BJs and bushings so the two sides match afte modification? Looks very interesting. Look forward to seeing more of this...

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

yea!!!!

ima be watchin this!

[Nessumsar]

Do you have any links to info other info on the CR mod you're doing? Are you doing this in combination with a G-mod or using the factory UCA pivot location? Did you make a jig of some kind to locate the LCA BJs and bushings so the two sides match afte modification? Looks very interesting. Look forward to seeing more of this...

The CR Mod I am refering to is my mod, the (Brett)Campbell/(Jon)Rasmussen mod. I had the initial idea to relocate the LCA and Brett made it so, along with a couple of his tweaks.

The UCA ultilizes the stock mounting location and the UBJ was moved on the arm outward 1/4" along with backwards 3/8" (IIRC). Doing this I could run no shims on the UCA and have .5* camber and ~6* caster. I am starting off with a single 1/8" shim in the front of the UCA, giving me 1.5* camber and 5.5* caster.

I picked up the car last night and will try to get some better (non camera phone) pictures this evening.

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[Nessumsar]

See it run? How about a ride or drive? :)

[rrunner68]

I can imagine you would have A LOT ov over steer with those big ass fronts, lol.

[craigs73]

ill be watching this looks like gonna be a fun ride

[claytonisbob]

Something to be admired about a car running as big of meats up front as in the back ;) What kind of tires are those?

Glad to see someone coming up with their own suspension mods and not just bolting stuff on (like me :P).

[strtlegal]

Everything you guys have done makes perfect sense and is a great idea for someone that has a budget and is a good welder..

very cool

[LS1NOVA]

Cool mods guys, way to think outside the box. I wish I had wider tires on the front of my Nova.

[chaz75]

are you wanting to keep this mod to yourselves ( and i wouldnt blame you if you did, honest ) or could you give some more specifics on how this was done and what it took to over come the challenges of doing this.

[MarkM66]

Did you cut up rust free quarters and fenders?

What are you plans for the cut wheel wells?

[Nessumsar]

Cool mods guys, way to think outside the box. I wish I had wider tires on the front of my Nova.

Its never too late!


are you wanting to keep this mod to yourselves ( and i wouldnt blame you if you did, honest ) or could you give some more specifics on how this was done and what it took to over come the challenges of doing this.

No one else can do this.... Just kidding, pretty much everything we did is in the pictures. If you need some specifics maybe Brett will chime in.


Did you cut up rust free quarters and fenders?

What are you plans for the cut wheel wells?

If I say yes will you be mad? The rears were gone; the fronts were fine, although the driver side does have a nice amount of bondo on it.

Oh, and a new picture from RTTC2:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/IMG_3681-1.jpg
Foto by Mr Newman

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[Nessumsar]

I ran a 40.3 with Mary yelling at me during the "fun" runs. I don't know what my times were during the actual competition, but they actaully felt faster... The run with Mary I botched the far right corner and lost a bunch of speed.

[Chad-1stGen]

I can tell you 39.5 was good enough to be in the top ten announced Sunday night for the non vendor class. You weren't that far from it. Impressive!

[Matt@BOS]

Dude, the Nova looked nasty (in the best way possible) this past weekend. I'm also not surprised you put up some very respectable times either. Good job out there!

Matt

[Conrad283]

Its never too late!



No one else can do this.... Just kidding, pretty much everything we did is in the pictures. If you need some specifics maybe Brett will chime in.



If I say yes will you be mad? The rears were gone; the fronts were fine, although the driver side does have a nice amount of bondo on it.

Oh, and a new picture from RTTC2:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/IMG_3681-1.jpg
Foto by Mr Newman

Thanks for the new wallpaper

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/drool1-1.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/drool1-1.gif

[johnny68]

hey matt ever find out the motor noise/trouble?
john

[Motorcitydak]

Is that rain water in your headlight? Car looks cool tho

[TheBandit]

Is that rain water in your headlight? Car looks cool tho

That is a custom accelerometer using advanced photographic datalogging. If it weren't for sloshing, I'd say he was pulling a g there lol.

[Nessumsar]

That is a custom accelerometer using advanced photographic datalogging. If it weren't for sloshing, I'd say he was pulling a g there lol.

I like to call it my "corner-weighted g-meter". Inner fenders and non-sealed housings don't mix.

I'm working on under hood air extraction ideas right now, so I won't have this problem much longer.:)

[TheBandit]

Hope you don't mind if I post my amatuer post-processed version of your photo.

https://www.pro-touring.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45046&d=1299187013

Love how low you got that thing!

[6'9"Witha69]

Just tell your passenger to keep arms and legs inside the ride at all times!


Seriously, I pulled over to a rolled car to see things I never want to see again. Keep it in the car.

[Nessumsar]

Hope you don't mind if I post my amatuer post-processed version of your photo.

45046


Love how low you got that thing!

Suweet! Been meaning to play around with some of my fotos.


Just tell your passenger to keep arms and legs inside the ride at all times!


Seriously, I pulled over to a rolled car to see things I never want to see again. Keep it in the car.

Coming from the offroad community, I know what you mean! I didn't even know he had his hand out.

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[67chevILL]

That thing is bas @$$.

[TheBandit]

Awsome Bandit, can you send me an email copy to [email protected]. Thanks, and so cool.

Click the attachment to open the larger version then right click, save as. If that doesn't work, let me know. Only took a few minutes to touch up like that. I'm sure a pro with experience could do a much better job than me!

[TheBandit]

Not sure if you've seen this Nova over on Steve's Nova Site, but I think yours would look wicked with fenders like this.

45065 45066

[Nessumsar]

Wow, that is a pretty cool rendering. It has all of the cues that I want on my car, although the flares I am planning on will be more round and bolted on, more of an industial look.

Cool find.

[1red68]

Nice! I'm likeing this.
i have a 70 i just started working on and i love this home build approch. i'm sure i'll have ?'s for you later but first i would like to know how is the ride?

[Nessumsar]

Nice! I'm likeing this.
i have a 70 i just started working on and i love this home build approch. i'm sure i'll have ?'s for you later but first i would like to know how is the ride?

The ride is pretty nice, it doesn't beat you up. You do feel all of the road irregularities, but I only have KYB Gas-Adjusts on it now, so I'm sure the ride would be much better with a set of nicer shocks.

On another note. I was very happy with how the car handled at RTTC. It was very neutral and I was even able to induce oversteer without a Posi. I will be adding one 1/8" shim to the front and back of the UCA to gain some static camber, as the pictures I have seen shows it could use another 1-1.5*.

[Jasons72]

Hey Jon, do you have any side shots of the car? And what size wheels and tires are you running now exactly?

[Flash68]

Not sure if you've seen this Nova over on Steve's Nova Site, but I think yours would look wicked with fenders like this.

45065 45066

That looks pretty frickin rad!

[TheBandit]

When do you plan on doing the fender flares? I'm very anxious to see it.

[Motorcitydak]

Does anyone offer a sort of universal fender flare like that? It would beat having to make the entire thing myself if I can just modify one

[hgarcia]

subscribed!

[Nessumsar]

Sorry for the lack of updates guys! I haven't started on the flares yet as I have been out of town the last 3 weekends.... I did install a set of HID H4 bulbs, and what a difference! My AutoPal housing keep the light where it should be, so I won't be blinding other drivers.

We also did a little something with some spray paint, but I'll let people see it at Delmar first; don't get yourselves worked up, its something small. :)

[Bryce]

We also did a little something with some spray paint, but I'll let people see it at Delmar first; don't get yourselves worked up, its something small. :)

Cant wait!

[GrabberGT]

Im glad you guys did this. I have been thinking about doing something like this for my car as a means of correcting the lowered front end geometry without having to go with a drop spindle. (nobody makes one anyway). Rather than lowering the UCA for the Shelby drop, I could raise the lower arm, lower the car and have the same effect with a lower center of gravity. Thoughts?

[Bryce]

Im glad you guys did this. I have been thinking about doing something like this for my car as a means of correcting the lowered front end geometry without having to go with a drop spindle. (nobody makes one anyway). Rather than lowering the UCA for the Shelby drop, I could raise the lower arm, lower the car and have the same effect with a lower center of gravity. Thoughts?

Chris,

At ride height is you LCA parallel to the ground? If so the only way to lower the car is raising the LCA or spindles ( but thats not an option for you).

[TheBandit]

Here are some more recent shots of that other Nova after paint. Maybe his flares will give you some ideas. Hope to see yours get started soon.

45784 45783 45782 45785

[GrabberGT]

Chris,

At ride height is you LCA parallel to the ground? If so the only way to lower the car is raising the LCA or spindles ( but thats not an option for you).

At ride height the LCA angles up. I can take the shelby drop back out and raise the lower an inch which will help some but I dont know if it will be enough.

[1red68]

Hey Jon,
what size wheels are you running and what issues did you have with the sway bar???

[Nessumsar]

Just got back from the Del Mar Good Guys. Finished 3rd in the "Street Machine" category ('55 newer)! The car handles so much better now, with a few adjustments and some decent shocks it will be amazing.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Hey Jon,
what size wheels are you running and what issues did you have with the sway bar???

The wheels are 17x10.5 '03 Cobra replicas; they are 5x4.5, I am using a 1" adapter in the front and a 1.25" in the rear.

Previous to the modifications, the front sway bay was far too stiff. It also didn't help that there was not a rear bar to even out the roll stiffness; by adding the larger tires and a rear Hotchkis bar, the car is almost neutral.

[johnny68]

hey Jon the car looked great cant wait to get ours going
John

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Great job Jon. Car looked great out there...!

[Chad-1stGen]

Congratz on 3rd. You are turning that Nova into such a beast! Awesome performance for the $$ too :)

Wish you would of come to Buttonwillow and seen how that thing does on a road course.

[Bryce]

Jon,

THe car looked awesome in person!

[Nessumsar]

hey Jon the car looked great cant wait to get ours going
John


Great job Jon. Car looked great out there...!


Congratz on 3rd. You are turning that Nova into such a beast! Awesome performance for the $$ too :)

Wish you would of come to Buttonwillow and seen how that thing does on a road course.


Jon,

THe car looked awesome in person!

Thanks guys! I couldn't be happier with the car, I didn't check tire presures or make any adjustments all weekend.

I'll have to tally all of my receipts, but I think I'm still under $8000 including the car. :)

[NOPANTS-68]

Your car looked great. Was that you next to me on the freeway Saturday afternoon after the show?

[Nessumsar]

Your car looked great. Was that you next to me on the freeway Saturday afternoon after the show?

I don't remember seeing you, were you in your Nova? We left the show around 5 on Satuday and headed north to our Hotel in Encinitas.

Also, found the full size picture of my car:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nessumsar]

Rob, of No Limits, brought out his corner-scales for anyone to use; care to guess what/how she weighs?

[NOPANTS-68]

Yeah I was in my blue '68 Nova in the fast lane. I had the two Cobras with me.

[NOPANTS-68]

Rob, of No Limits, brought out his corner-scales for anyone to use; care to guess what/how she weighs?

Mine weighs 3220 with the LS, so I'll guess somewhere real close.

[TheBandit]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Wow that shot really shows off the tire width. Is it squating under power in that picture? There seems to be a cone flying, but I'm sure you meant to do that.

[Nessumsar]

Wow that shot really shows off the tire width. Is it squating under power in that picture? There seems to be a cone flying, but I'm sure you meant to do that.

It looks like it is, although the car doesn't ever squat much as it only has a peg leg....

Oh, and that cone was talking trash when I walked the course earlier, so I taught it a thing or two! :)

[TheBandit]

Cone? What cone?

45835

[Bryce]

Cone? What cone?

45835

HAHAHA!! nice

[LT1Nova]

I did install a set of HID H4 bulbs, and what a difference! My AutoPal housing keep the light where it should be, so I won't be blinding other drivers.

I'd like to hear more about this. Which Autopal's did you have and how were they. Any the HID conversion, got any details on that?

[Nessumsar]

The AutoPal housing are just a cheap set of H4 conversion lights I got off of Ebay, much like these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/7-H6024-6014-H4-EURO-CONVERSION-HEADLIGHTS-KIT-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem35984afe42QQitemZ23018 8318274QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

And the HID kit is from:
http://www.hidxenonlights.com/h4-hid-bulbs-c-646

The bulbs are a plug-and-play deal, and go in really easy. You just have to install the bulbs, mount the ballasts (which have some hokey brackets), run the wires and you're done. They plug into your existing light harness.

They are the high/low HID/halogen lights. They have a pretty good pattern; and they don't blind everyone else, although they do light up street signs pretty well. I will get a picture of them this weekend.

[jschaecher]

Man I love Nova's good to see a different approach!

[IBJakeSS]

I'm interested in the HID Conversion, did you loose your High beams? Which HID Kit did you get?

[rfalker1]

man i love your nova, if i saw u in the streets i wouldn't know what to do ;)

[Nessumsar]

Man I love Nova's good to see a different approach!


man i love your nova, if i saw u in the streets i wouldn't know what to do ;)

Thanks guys!


I'm interested in the HID Conversion, did you loose your High beams? Which HID Kit did you get?

The kit I have is their High/Low HID/Halogen. Even though it has a "high" beam feature, it really isn't; when you turn the high-beams on, it powers down the HID and powers up the halogen (which is really weak). So the low-beam is braghter than the high-beam.

[project nova]

Hey!, This is my Nova... Flares are just round bar built around radius of tires, then sheet metal worked over round bar skeleton. I kept the original shape of the wheel opening at the body per the rendering. Glad to offer any advise if needed.
Here are some more recent shots of that other Nova after paint. Maybe his flares will give you some ideas. Hope to see yours get started soon.

45784 45783 45782 45785

[wellis77]

Hey!, This is my Nova... Flares are just round bar built around radius of tires, then sheet metal worked over round bar skeleton. I kept the original shape of the wheel opening at the body per the rendering. Glad to offer any advise if needed.

Any pics of how you did this?

[project nova]

I do. Ill get em together and post here.

[craigs73]

jon you make anymore progress on the car? how about fender flares?

[Nessumsar]

I have not started on the flares yet as I am planning to swap on my c5 brakes next weekend; that will affect the trackwidth front and rear, so I wanted to get that done first. Once the brakes are on, the flares will come quick.

[Chad-1stGen]

What are you going to use for the master?

[craigs73]

jon what you going to do with ur c5 brakes?

[Nessumsar]

One out of a 93 Dodge Shadow 3L. Its 7/8" bore and $45 lifetime warranty at Kragen. :)


jon what you going to do with ur c5 brakes?

The C5 brakes are going on the car, stock disk/drums are coming off. I'll do a whole write-up on the process, since there doesn't seem to be one for going from disk/drum to C5 disc/disc.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

This Nova is so serious..

[craigs73]

sweet i have the same setup and this would help a lot how much does it cost to get the C5 setup? your talking like a used set that comes off a vette?

[LM7_67]

The C5 brakes are going on the car, stock disk/drums are coming off. I'll do a whole write-up on the process, since there doesn't seem to be one for going from disk/drum to C5 disc/disc.

nooo!! don't leave the nice front discs with stock rear drums crew! :D

[Nessumsar]

sweet i have the same setup and this would help a lot how much does it cost to get the C5 setup? your talking like a used set that comes off a vette?

You will need the Corvette front brakes (caliper, basket, rotor, and lines) and 4th gen Camaro rear brakes (from the backing plate out). The Corvette rear brakes have the wrong backing plate and won't bolt directly to your axle. I got a serious deal on my brake setup from a friend. I would expect you could buy everything for around $600-700.

[craigs73]

Im thinking for the budget right now im gonna keep the stock front disc and get the 4th gen rear disc..or get them willwood that are stock replacment for front or just find all a junkyard with a 4th gen and rob the whole brake system

[Nessumsar]

You can do pretty well with the stock fronts and disk rears. Just make sure you use good fluid, DOT 4 or 5.1; right now I have Brembo front rotors with Hawk HPS pads and my DOT3 fluid is definitely the weak point in the system. When I do my brake swap I will be using Wilwood's 610* fluid, Summit has the best price on it.

[craigs73]

Cool thanks for the info i prob wont get much track time anyways unless i get su ked into this addicting hobby

[frojoe]

This thread is in SERIOUS need of more pics of this thing.. shots of hte ride height, rest of the suspension, general build!!

[Greasy63]

This thread is in SERIOUS need of more pics of this thing.. shots of hte ride height, rest of the suspension, general build!!

he is RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!

we need moar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[Nessumsar]

Brett, you keep doin' what you're doin'; I thinks its better to have all of that info in a stand alone thread.

And to all of you guys, I will try to get some more/better pictures up.

[67zo6Camaro]

pro touring

[Flash68]

Jon, I am thoroughly impressed with your car and what you have done to it and accomplished thus... all for under $8k. Driving behind you for a bit at the RTTC2 cruise was fun and your car and performance is a testament to what you can do with a muscle car on a low budget and that you dont need big bucks to have fun and have a great pro touring car.

[Nessumsar]

Jon, I am thoroughly impressed with your car and what you have done to it and accomplished thus... all for under $8k. Driving behind you for a bit at the RTTC2 cruise was fun and your car and performance is a testament to what you can do with a muscle car on a low budget and that you ten big bucks to have fun and have a great pro touring car.

Thanks for the kind words Dave. I have to admit that I am a big fan of BMF, you don't have a ton of money into it, and you guys go like stink!

[craigs73]

jon do you have more details on what you did with ur control arms and maybe more pics? hows those breaks coming along

[TheBandit]

The C5 brakes are going on the car, stock disk/drums are coming off. I'll do a whole write-up on the process, since there doesn't seem to be one for going from disk/drum to C5 disc/disc.

Look forward to seeing the writeup! Let me know if you want to sell off any of your old front brake setup.

[craigs73]

any updates jon?

[Nessumsar]

Hey guys! Been a busy month around here, unfortunately not on car stuff... Anyways, I did get the C5/LS1 brakes on the car; they work great, although in the rush we didn't do the prettiest job. Got the wear them in at the Hotchkis NMCA Autocross a couple weekends ago, where the car placed 3rd in class both days; needless to say I was stoked.

In other news, looks like I will be heading up to Buttonwillow for a track day in September. This means I need to get cracking on the car. I need to work on the flares, get some 3-point seat belts installed (don't want to track with 5-points and no cage), upgrade my rear lug bolts, and if I can swing it in time, a locking rear diff.

Thanks again for the interest guys.

[6'9"Witha69]

. . . and if I can swing it in time, a locking rear diff.

Leaving team OLJ, noooooo!

[Nessumsar]

Leaving team OLJ, noooooo!

You're telling me! I heard this team is a "blood in, blood out" type of deal...:help:

[Bryce]

Hey guys! Been a busy month around here, unfortunately not on car stuff... Anyways, I did get the C5/LS1 brakes on the car; they work great, although in the rush we didn't do the prettiest job. Got the wear them in at the Hotchkis NMCA Autocross a couple weekends ago, where the car placed 3rd in class both days; needless to say I was stoked.

In other news, looks like I will be heading up to Buttonwillow for a track day in September. This means I need to get cracking on the car. I need to work on the flares, get some 3-point seat belts installed (don't want to track with 5-points and no cage), upgrade my rear lug bolts, and if I can swing it in time, a locking rear diff.

Thanks again for the interest guys.

Detroit locker?

[Nessumsar]

I wish Bryce; the budget won't allow for diff., gears, axles, bearings, and install kit right now... More than likely I will be getting an Powertrax Lock Right; its the unit that replaces the spider gears in the open carrier. They are supposed to work really well and its about a 30 minute install!

[Gitter Dun]

Glad to hear your plugging away for September Jon.

I hope someone else can chime in here about this because I dont have any experience with Auburn lockers but I have heard of guys putting in Auburn locker components and not liking them, especially on the road course.

My Eaton posi has been in for at least 8 years now and so far so good.

I could be wrong bro so I'm hoping others can chime in.

[Nessumsar]

Glad to hear your plugging away for September Jon.

I hope someone else can chime in here about this because I dont have any experience with Auburn lockers but I have heard of guys putting in Auburn locker components and not liking them, especially on the road course.

My Eaton posi has been in for at least 8 years now and so far so good.

I could be wrong bro so I'm hoping others can chime in.

Thanks for the concern Gae. Now that I think of it, I was looking at the Powertrax Lock Right because the Auburns got such a bad rep.

[craigs73]

hey jon look into these guys been seeing there stuff used here and there lately a guy on stevesnovasite used the axles i believe and was really impressed by the axles thickness and quality......... been looking into the axles for when i shorten the rear on my car

http://www.yukongear.com

[TheBandit]

I have used Lock Rites and Detroit for off-road (rock ctawling) applications. I would never install one on a car destined for road course. They have a very sudden engage and disengage that can be a rather hard transition. As you learn to drive with them you can predict and indeed use the throttle to get them to lock and unlock, but that is not the sort of constraint you want on road course. I would be looking at either a clutch type posi or a Tru Track. Those types of diffs have smooth transition.

[dusterbd13]

being a mopar guy, we tend to have to go with whats availible. the budget end for us has been yukon for a few years. in short, ive used their stff, beat on their stuff, raced and wrecked their stuff. no complaints from my usage. so dont hesitate to try em.

michael

[Gitter Dun]

I have used Lock Rites and Detroit for off-road (rock ctawling) applications. I would never install one on a car destined for road course. They have a very sudden engage and disengage that can be a rather hard transition. As you learn to drive with them you can predict and indeed use the throttle to get them to lock and unlock, but that is not the sort of constraint you want on road course. I would be looking at either a clutch type posi or a Tru Track. Those types of diffs have smooth transition.


X2 brother, my thoughts exactly. Stick with an Eaton posi Jon. You will be glad you did!!

[craigs73]

I have used Lock Rites and Detroit for off-road (rock ctawling) applications. I would never install one on a car destined for road course. They have a very sudden engage and disengage that can be a rather hard transition. As you learn to drive with them you can predict and indeed use the throttle to get them to lock and unlock, but that is not the sort of constraint you want on road course. I would be looking at either a clutch type posi or a Tru Track. Those types of diffs have smooth transition. are u referring to the Yukon setup

[79-TA]

What are you doing in terms of transmission cooling? That's the concern that keeps me from bringing the Trans Am out to join you guys in September (Mustang will fill in yet again.) You might want to look into a trans cooler and a way to monitor the transmission temperature.

[John Wright]

Another plug for the Eaton unit.....you can set those up for the amount of required slip with different springs and clutches. Talk with whomever you purchase it from and let them know what HP and how much tire you have so they can help you get it set up somewhere close.

I have heard that with Auburn stuff, you get what you get and I don't think that you can even rebuild them.

[Nessumsar]

Now you guys have me thinking... I was mainly considering the locker because of it predictability (always going to drive both wheels power on), but maybe I underestimated how harsly it engages/dis-engages?

Looks like some more research is on tap!

Thanks guys. :cheers:

[TheBandit]

Now you guys have me thinking... I was mainly considering the locker because of it predictability (always going to drive both wheels power on), but maybe I underestimated how harsly it engages/dis-engages?

Generally automatic locking differentials like the Detroit Softlocker or Lock Rite will engage & disengage as you transition from off-throttle to throttle and vice versa. They are a bit unpredictable when you are in a "neutral" condition, trying to maintain speed but not really applying power. If you approach a corner on the brakes then start to add power somewhere in the turn, you will cause the locker to engage and that will disturb the tires. The transition is not continuous or smooth. They really are not predictable around corners under varying throttle conditions.

If you want predictable you should look at a limited slip posi (clutch type) or Truetrac (helical gear).

[Bryce]

Now you guys have me thinking... I was mainly considering the locker because of it predictability (always going to drive both wheels power on), but maybe I underestimated how harsly it engages/dis-engages?

Looks like some more research is on tap!

Thanks guys. :cheers:

When I was at the SEMA show last year I talked with the guys from Eaton. They recomended the detroit locker.

[irregal83]

Sweet build.. cant wait to see updates

[Nessumsar]

I know that Brian Hobaugh and Mike Maier run lockers in their autocross cars, and they seem to be pretty fast... Thats what got me thinking about them in the first place.

[monteboy84]

Look at Torsen, no clutches so nothing to wear out, high power tolerance, smoothe engagement.

-matt

ETA: I didn't see what differential you actually have, so I don't know if a Torsen is available, but if it is that'd be my suggestion.

[killer69]

my TruTrac works Great.

[LM7_67]

After riding around in a street car with a locker, I would never want one in anything that I expect to turn a corner with, at any speed.

[Gitter Dun]

After riding around in a street car with a locker, I would never want one in anything that I expect to turn a corner with, at any speed.

X2....I strongly recommend the Eaton. So far so good for many years.

[devwil68]

those are some nasty front meats!

[Hotchkis]

Hey guys! Been a busy month around here, unfortunately not on car stuff... Anyways, I did get the C5/LS1 brakes on the car; they work great, although in the rush we didn't do the prettiest job. Got the wear them in at the Hotchkis NMCA Autocross a couple weekends ago, where the car placed 3rd in class both days; needless to say I was stoked.

In other news, looks like I will be heading up to Buttonwillow for a track day in September. This means I need to get cracking on the car. I need to work on the flares, get some 3-point seat belts installed (don't want to track with 5-points and no cage), upgrade my rear lug bolts, and if I can swing it in time, a locking rear diff.

Thanks again for the interest guys.


The Hotchkis/NMCA autocross was a blast! Thanks for coming out. Your car looked good out there. Congratulations on your 3rd place wins!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

We have a bunch of photos of the event on our FaceBook page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.10150254999885073.320655.188171375072

[Gitter Dun]

Yeah, Jon definitely has some skills but were taliking rears end set ups right now.

[1red68]

I have used Lock Rites and Detroit for off-road (rock ctawling) applications. I would never install one on a car destined for road course. They have a very sudden engage and disengage that can be a rather hard transition. As you learn to drive with them you can predict and indeed use the throttle to get them to lock and unlock, but that is not the sort of constraint you want on road course. I would be looking at either a clutch type posi or a Tru Track. Those types of diffs have smooth transition.

i agree with Bandit on this one. i have a Detroit Locker w/ 3:73's in my 68 Mustang and yes it engages and disengages with force. i have to be careful rolling in or out of the throttle on s curve or on/off ramp. it has kicked the back of the car out, not enough to be dangerous, but it sure gets you attention.

[Hotwhilz]

Jon, that pic of your car on the track is killer! The stance is incredible, what rear suspension set up do you have on there, I need to do mine a better way and get rid of the heavy and huge leafs, let me know

Ben

[John Wright]

Look at Torsen, no clutches so nothing to wear out, high power tolerance, smoothe engagement.

-matt

ETA: I didn't see what differential you actually have, so I don't know if a Torsen is available, but if it is that'd be my suggestion.

I think some of those units like Torsen, TrueTrac (helical gear type diffs) USED TO have reliability issues when putting some power through them, but I think they have toughened them up in the past few years to where they can take some decent power now.

[Nessumsar]

Jon, that pic of your car on the track is killer! The stance is incredible, what rear suspension set up do you have on there, I need to do mine a better way and get rid of the heavy and huge leafs, let me know

Ben

Ben, she still has heavy leaf springs... They are the Hotchkis lowering springs that have been mounted an inch higher up on the front eye, shackles that are 5/8" shorter, with a 2" lowering block.

I am planning an alluminum 2-link, but that won't materialize for a while.

[Hotwhilz]

Ben, she still has heavy leaf springs... They are the Hotchkis lowering springs that have been mounted an inch higher up on the front eye, shackles that are 5/8" shorter, with a 2" lowering block.

I am planning an alluminum 2-link, but that won't materialize for a while.


The 2 link sounds good, go for it John, may be it can be fabricated for cheap?

I guess if I wanna keep some fenders I better just retain some of your mods??!!!!

There is just something about your car!!!!

[Hotchkis]

Ben, she still has heavy leaf springs... They are the Hotchkis lowering springs that have been mounted an inch higher up on the front eye, shackles that are 5/8" shorter, with a 2" lowering block.

I am planning an alluminum 2-link, but that won't materialize for a while.


Jon - Did you post detailed pictures of your rear suspension modification yet?

[Nessumsar]

Come to think of it, we never did post any pictures of the rear suspension... I'll try to do that this weekend.

It is all relatively easy to do; to relocate the front eye you just drill a couple holes, and for the shackles you make a new pair. Those two things alone should lower the car nearly 3/4"; it will also give you a slightly higher instant center, increasing anti-squat.

Ben, I forgot to mention that I am also running a Hotchkis rear sway bar.

[Hotwhilz]

Jon ,thanks for the tips, you got me thinking, I have really long shackles about 4" long, the leafs are so stiff I don't think I need that much, will look into the front eye a bit closer to see how to move it up the anti squat is interesting!
I'm building a reliable chassis, while I save for the horses!

Let see some pics of your rear !

Aahaha!!!

[dusterbd13]

yup. definately interested in this, as i like the rate of my current leaves. would like to reduce antisquat and ditch thge lowering blocks. little too much axle wrap for my taste.

and its ironic, as i was thinking about doing something very similar to this after using hangars and shacles to lower the back of my shop truck. was starting to look into it when this thread took this turn.

look forward to seeing the pictures.

michael

[Nessumsar]

I was able to get under the car this weekend and get a couple quick pictures:

The shackles that are 5/8" shorter
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

They could have been a hair shorter, but we aired on the safe side; didn't want to bind the eye on the frame at droop.

The relocated front eye
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

To do the front you need to unbolt the "basket" that the front eye sits in. Once it is out you can measure and redrill the holes higher up.

I didn't take any pictures of the lowering blocks because, well... I think we've all seen lowering blocks...

Those 2 things should get you ~.75" lower.

I have Hotchkis' 1.5" drop leafs; if I had the 3" leafs, I would use a .5" lowering block instead of the 2" thats in there now.

[Hotwhilz]

Interesting! looks like you have welded extensions to raise the front eye.

Out of the blue questions you may answer form your knowledge:

Would be using the monting points for the snubber above the drive shaft would be strong enough to bolt an eventual third link?
Looks inline, centered a bit short though?
Also , what would be a good size tubing to build the bars from?

Sorry for all those Q's but it seems that we have the same goals as far has handling, in this I mean, budget minded and performance.

Ben

[Hotchkis]

Jon - It's great that the Nova (X-body) and second gen Camaros have a little space above the front leaf spring mount to move the spring upwards. The first gen Camaro is not so accommodating. With all your aggressive driving, do your springs ever contact the frame because of the shorter shackle? Cool car!







I was able to get under the car this weekend and get a couple quick pictures:

The shackles that are 5/8" shorter
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

They could have been a hair shorter, but we aired on the safe side; didn't want to bind the eye on the frame at droop.

The relocated front eye
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

To do the front you need to unbolt the "basket" that the front eye sits in. Once it is out you can measure and redrill the holes higher up.

I didn't take any pictures of the lowering blocks because, well... I think we've all seen lowering blocks...

Those 2 things should get you ~.75" lower.

I have Hotchkis' 1.5" drop leafs; if I had the 3" leafs, I would use a .5" lowering block instead of the 2" thats in there now.

[Nessumsar]

Jon - It's great that the Nova (X-body) and second gen Camaros have a little space above the front leaf spring mount to move the spring upwards. The first gen Camaro is not so accommodating. With all your aggressive driving, do your springs ever contact the frame because of the shorter shackle? Cool car!

Thanks. The leaf gets close to the frame, but never contacts it.

Anyone else think the car needs to be another 1-1/2" lower? :)

[dusterbd13]

yup. and flared. its sick already, though

[Hotchkis]

Thanks. The leaf gets close to the frame, but never contacts it.

Anyone else think the car needs to be another 1-1/2" lower? :)


Nessumsar – Do you have room between the axle and frame to get 1.5” lower? How’s the underbody clearance right now?

[Nessumsar]

Nessumsar – Do you have room between the axle and frame to get 1.5” lower? How’s the underbody clearance right now?

The simple answer is no. The rear frame rails would have to be raised into the trunk for the clearance. As it is now I had to cut the bumpstops down ~.5", I have about .75" of free travel before the stop now.

Underbody clearance is fine now. The only problem I currently have is header to ground clearance; they have about 2 inches of clearance, they started at 1.5 inches, but have been clearancing themselves. :) I plan to go to a set of mid-length headers, and 3" oval pipes; this should but the entire exhaust in line with the subframe (which is at 3.75" of clearance), at that point there won't be any issues.

I can take pictures of anything you have questions about; or I could even run the car down to you guys.

[frojoe]

Nessumsar – Do you have room between the axle and frame to get 1.5” lower? How’s the underbody clearance right now?

X2

Also, bumpstop clearance? Using stock rubber bumpstops? Even using bumpstops??

Cheers,
Joe

[Nessumsar]

...As it is now I had to cut the bumpstops down ~.5", I have about .75" of free travel before the stop now...

That is with the stock rubber stops.

[rfalker1]

Geez u are going lower??? How is that car when it comes to daily driving!!! I mean WoW its already sooo low.

Lowwwwwwwwwwwww, but if anybody was to do it, I would hope it would be you and your Nova!!!

[Driver X]

"how low can u go" looks good

[CamaroJoe]

Sweet Nova Jon nice build you got going on man! Cant wait to see it in person at some of the shows!

[boneheadzz]

Is it just me or did your assembly pics disappear? I love what you've done with your nova. I plan on trying this out on my 2nd gen TA. Gotta get that thing LOWER...
Mike

[SShep71]

They are gone for me to.

[rchaskin]

Any updates on this car?????

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

Hey Randy, I haven't really done much to the Nova since the last update. I installed a mini-spool which totally changed the car for the better; and I recently upgraded all of my lighting to LEDs.

Once I can find 4 donor front fenders I will be making fender flares for the car. Hopefully I will be working with the guys here to design front control arms that utilize C5 spindles.

[rchaskin]

Hey Randy, I haven't really done much to the Nova since the last update. I installed a mini-spool which totally changed the car for the better; and I recently upgraded all of my lighting to LEDs.

Once I can find 4 donor front fenders I will be making fender flares for the car. Hopefully I will be working with the guys here to design front control arms that utilize C5 spindles.

Cool....

I think I would just forget the flares all together and go 18" x 12" all the way around and run 335/30.

I think front grip is by-far the biggest factor in getting these heavy old cars to turn.

[Jon @ Hotchkis]

I agree with you fully on the front tire comment, Randy. I have had the 315's on the car for almost three years now, and when I design the new front suspension I will be designing it around an 18x11 or 18x12 wheel so I will have room to grow tire-size wise.

Hopefully after the first of the year I can start gathering parts to mock up the front suspension and Version 3 of the Nova can take place.

[Bezz]

Soooooooo?

[tymbom]

Anything new?? I see your title and signature has changed...

[TheBandit]

What's going on with your Nova Jon? Ever plan on building out the fenders & quarters for tire coverage?

[VillainNova]

does anyone know where all the pics went? im trying to run a setup along these lines as well

[rchaskin]

Send Jon an email.

He is a cool guy, and will help you out.

[VillainNova]

ok thanks!