Anybody actually using the spectra tank

[Ishmael]

Is there anyone using the spectra tank with an LS? How do you like it other than slosh and fuel level reading? What did you do to make it work with the LS?
thanks
Scott

[L & H Kustoms]

Scott contact Jason Rushforth. He has a spectra tank in his skylark but has the same problems with fuel starvation below 1/2 tank as does every other person who has this tank. I wouldnt recommend it.

[Z06vet]

I have the old design in my 67. Other than the above described/well-known problems, its been problem free. I have a stock LS1. I have autocrossed & drag raced. Just keep over 1/2 tank and its fine. There is a new design out now, so if you havent bought one yet, find the new one & you should be fine. The gauge is only slightly off, and will show empty when there is still a few gallons left- not really a bad thing if you think about it.
Scott

[Ishmael]

I spoke with three guys on another forum who have the new design and haven't had problems with it and wondered what you guys thought. I know the old ones sucked - just wondering about the new ones. Luke, do you know which version of the tank they have?

[BanditDave]

I have the old design in my 67. Other than the above described/well-known problems, its been problem free. I have a stock LS1. I have autocrossed & drag raced. Just keep over 1/2 tank and its fine. There is a new design out now, so if you havent bought one yet, find the new one & you should be fine. The gauge is only slightly off, and will show empty when there is still a few gallons left- not really a bad thing if you think about it.
Scott

Do you know the part number differences between old and new or is it the same?

[trapin]

Yes, please keep this thread going. Very intersted to know about the new tanks.

[dhutton]

When you compare the simplicity of the fix to something like the Vaporworks solution you either have to conclude that it cannot work or the guy who developed the fix is a genius. I must admit I am a
little skeptical that a simple little strip of steel added to that baffle will solve the problem but maybe it is good enough for street use. Looking forward to seeing test results under more demanding test conditions.

[Ishmael]

I don't think they changed the part number. I got confused at one point because the 69 has a different number.

[trapin]

If they didn't change the part number than they lowered the price quite a bit. Rock Auto is now selling them for $365. I think they were around $440 just a year ago.

No way on God's green earth I can afford a Ricks tank. If Spectra doesn't come through for me than I may have to go with a stock tank and external pump. Not the most popular option but it's been done before.

[CarlC]

Just wait Tony, just wait......

[Cris@JCG]

Hmmmmm.. You know something we don't know Carl???



Just wait Tony, just wait......

[Ishmael]

They said they lowered the price about a hundy. Carl, if you know something that could save us some green and help out this business venture on teh vaporworx tank could you tell us two things? Will it be priced somewhere near the spectre tank and when will it be out? Knowing these two things could influence a lot of purchases that will be made as spring is just around the corner.
thanks
Scott

[67CamNKC]

+1. I also need to buy a tank soon.

[neki67]

+1.

[CarlC]

Hmmmmm.. You know something we don't know Carl???

;-)

By the beginning of next week there will be more info. I can't let the news out before RTTC since that will be where the new design will be first shown to the public. Very soon afterward there will be a product announcement. I can't comment on the price since someone else will be selling it, so it is against the law for me to discuss it. However, it is, IMO, an apples and oranges comparison to the Spectra tank.

There will also be three new Vaporworx products coming out. One is a natural progression, the other two are something not currently offered in the automotive aftermarket. All three will also make their public debut at RTTC.

[John Wright]

;-)

the new design .......<snip>
There will also be three new Vaporworx products coming out. One is a natural progression, the other two are something not currently offered in the automotive aftermarket. All three will also make their public debut at RTTC.

This subject keeps developing as time goes on...this is great, by the time I get around to working on my car again, you guys will have it all figured out for me....LOL

[BanditDave]

This subject keeps developing as time goes on...this is great, by the time I get around to working on my car again, you guys will have it all figured out for me....LOL

That's what I'm sayin! lol I would LOVE to get a Rick's Tank, but I just can't justify spending that much at this point. On my TA I had a a sumped stock tank and it honestly worked REALLY well, even when the fuel level got pretty low. Granted I wasn't autocrossing the thing but I did engage in some VERY spirited driving. I may go this route again on the 442. It makes the pump very accessible and the noise from the Bosch 044 was not very loud at all!

Curious to find out what the heck else is coming out soon. I need to make a decision on a tank soon dammit!!! LOL

[s10pro]

any update on a release

[SD455]

I am looking for a replacement tank for my 2nd gen with a FAST EZ EFI. I am near the horsepower limit for the system and my main problem is that I am sucking air below about 1/3 tank. I also have an issue with fuel odor in the garage as it is now only vented through the gas cap. I have been considering the spectre tank due to its excellent price point at Rock Auto.....is a $1000 tank really necessary?

[68Formula]

Is there a way to tell the difference between the earlier and newer Spectra tanks? Did they change the part number or something?

[Ishmael]

68 - there's no new part number. ust a new release date. All the old ones are off the shelf so if you buy one now you have the new one.

SD, good on ya for violating a pontiac. The odour could be your fuel lines and not your tank. Check to see if they are weeping. Braided lines won't cut it - do a search on teflon lined lines.
And no, you don't need a $1000 tank. There is a niche for something that isn't stainless and doesn't suck. I just said this on another board but there are guys who don't have billet pockets or simply can't afford a stainless tank. However, we aren't satisfied with a $350 tank and are willing to spend an extra $150 on a pump if we thought that was going to solve it. So where are we? My hope is that Carl is alluding to a $500 or $600 tank that worx.

[Cris@JCG]

How about this tank right here? JCG/Vaporworks!! Carl will be jumping in here pretty soon & give you guys a better explanation..

67-69 Camaro & Firebird only @ this time...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/IMG_0965-1.jpg

[Ishmael]

Now that's what I'm talkin about! I read the other thread as I didn't know they had been released but no pic of this tank. How much? I searched for Carl but he's off line and I'm about to be. Now I won't be able to sleep. Thanks.

[67CamNKC]

OK, spill the beans.......we're listening (or watching).

[CarlC]

This tank is not in the other thread. This one is a JCG product. I am providing the technical suggestions and some of the parts to Cris to make this version.

It is basically a modified stainless steel stock tank with the 5th-gen fuel module adapted to it. What you see in the picture is basically what was used for the VaporWorx proof-of-concept model to make sure that it tested out properly. Like anything there are advantages and disadvantages, so let's discuss them.

Advantages:

I cannot discuss pricing since it is against the law for a supplier (VaporWorx to JCG) to discuss JCG's price with end users (seriously.) You will need to contact Cris about that. I will say this. The quality of the recessed tray and welding work is outstanding, far better than the PoC model. When you're talking fuel, this kind of quality is at the top of the list of must-haves. The module, pick-ups, etc. mean nothing if the basic vessel is not well constructed and safe to use.

Besides the significant performance advantages this tank offers, it also has a weight savings. The construction of a stock style tank, with it's corrugations on the upper and lower surfaces, means greater strength in a lighter package.

The tank is available with or without corner pickups. As a point of reference, this past weekend at RTTC2 was again a testing session. A CTS-V pump was used but without corner pickups. With the fuel gauge needle just bouncing off the peg past the "E", two additional autocross runs were made and the car driven to the gas station (nervously). Approximately one gallon was still in the tank. For most people this is sufficient performance while at the same time helping keep costs down. The 5th-gen pump has very similar venturi pump performance.

There is a -4 male fitting on the front of the tank that attaches to a small stainless tube inside the tank. This tube extends up the filler neck and then makes an upside down "J". This is for tank venting. A charcoal vapor canister can be connected to the fitting but should be kept as far above the tank as possible.

An OE-type sealed wiring harness is available. It includes the power and fuel level sensor wiring. All of the wiring passes through the module hat, just like the 5th-gen. The wiring harness is made so that a short section of harness, from the module plug to a 4-pin Delphi plug just under the trunk floor, stays with the tank during installation and removal. This makes the installation and removal process much easier and safer. The module hat is made of plastic, and if the tank was dropped or shifted during installation, the module could be damaged. Just tape the short section to the top and install the tank. Plug the short harness into the long one (5') that goes through the trunk floor, and make final connections.

Disadvantages:

If the stock tank does not fit, neither will this one. If offset leaf springs, mini-tubbing, etc. is done so that a stock tank will not fit, this one won't either. Ditto for needing the front corners clipped for exhaust clearance. Remember, the idea behind this tank is to keep costs down, and if too many modifications are done, the price will climb accordingly.

Questions? Fire away.

[SD455]

Questions? Fire away.

How long before we see one for a 2nd gen?

[CarlC]

Convince someone to start making a second-gen stainless tank and it can happen pretty quick. Trying to do this conversion with a galvanized steel tank is not very elegant. Welding on galvanized steel is a no-no, and from a practical/cost standpoint it's not easy to re-coat the tank with either a hot-dip or electro-plating process if the galvanized surface is ground off for welding. We are erroring on the side of caution here since safety is the first priority, so corrosion due to the removal of sacrificial coatings has to be considered.

[Ishmael]

Chris doesn't seem to have pm. Chris, could you tell us the price so I can spread the news to other sites or could you pm me? Or is it listed else where on this board?

[Rhino]

I'm interested in this setup, but I'm running a late 4th Gen PCM. To my knowledge, it doesn't have the capability of a PWM output for pump control. Is there any way to retrofit this into an older PCM environment?

EDIT: It looks like Vaporworx is already taking care of that.

[Cris@JCG]

Scott- I am working out all the pricing of other components @ this time.. The goal is to sell a complete unit ready to install.. The gas tanks are OER from Classic Industries.. I also have to fit the first unit under a car to proof fitment.. Give me a few days & we will make a formal announcement



Chris doesn't seem to have pm. Chris, could you tell us the price so I can spread the news to other sites or could you pm me? Or is it listed else where on this board?

[Ishmael]

Thanks Chris.

[trapin]

Cris/Carl....I have The General's money burning a hole in my pocket.

Hurry before the wife gets it.

[dhutton]

Convince someone to start making a second-gen stainless tank and it can happen pretty quick. Trying to do this conversion with a galvanized steel tank is not very elegant. Welding on galvanized steel is a no-no, and from a practical/cost standpoint it's not easy to re-coat the tank with either a hot-dip or electro-plating process if the galvanized surface is ground off for welding. We are erroring on the side of caution here since safety is the first priority, so corrosion due to the removal of sacrificial coatings has to be considered.

I understand and respect what you are saying (and the great R&D you have done) but hasn't Aeromotive been selling steel sumps for many years? It would be great to see a budget option for other cars. In fact for my 64 GTO there are no options other than the Spectra tank with all it's shortcomings.

[CarlC]

Aeromotive, along with several other companies, do sell sumps that can be welded onto tanks. They are really intended to be race-car type parts, not street/daily driver applications. It still means that the galvanizing needs to be ground off, the sump welded in, and them some kind of corrosion protection put back on. Does that mean a resin coating in the tank? Painting the outside? Can it be done? Sure, but I'm not yet in a position to say that I'm comfortable with any of them from a long-term corrosion standpoint. When the sump is on the bottom of the tank and can easily be seen it's one thing. With a tray on top of the tank inspections are pretty tough, and problems may go un-noticed. I do hear you about low-cost solutions, but erroring on the side of caution is my mantra on this type of stuff.

Can Rick's make a tank for your car?

[trapin]

Cris...will this tank be available exclusively through you or will other vendors be allowed to sell them? Can you give us a "ball park" estimate to when these tanks will officially be available to the general public?

[trapin]

......I just said this on another board but there are guys who don't have billet pockets or simply can't afford a stainless tank. However, we aren't satisfied with a $350 tank and are willing to spend an extra $150 on a pump if we thought that was going to solve it. So where are we? My hope is that Carl is alluding to a $500 or $600 tank that worx.
I'm sure it's going to be a fantastic unit, but if it's north of $600 I will probably pass. My car will not see a lot of competition time anyway. I'm just looking for a good reliable tank that works for cruising and the occasional "spirited" driving. If the improvements to the Spectra tank are to be believed then that will be fine for me. The money I save there will come in handy for the rest of my project.

[Ishmael]

I'm in the same place as you as are a whole bunch of guys. You hear a lot of bad things about the Spectra tanks on this board but I've heard a lot of good things on other boards from people that are using a new one. Sometimes its hard to seperate the " I heard" from the "I know." I'm waiting on this tank because I would rather not have to worry about it. That said, if its too far north of the spectra tank I'll pass and live with problems that may or may not occur. That's why I started this thread in the first place but it morphed into something useful anyway.

[trapin]

I suspect the problems with the Spectra tank are from people using them for full blown competition where you corner hard enough to make your helmet hit the side glass. I will not be doing that with my car because I don't have enough money into it to do that effectively. I can keep my tank half full if need be.

[BonzoHansen]

I suspect the problems with the Spectra tank are from people using them for full blown competition where you corner hard enough to make your helmet hit the side glass. I will not be doing that with my car because I don't have enough money into it to do that effectively. I can keep my tank half full if need be.

A guy in our club has a 67 with a mp-efi 383 and has the spectra tank, otherwise car is pretty mild. OE suspension, 15” tires, etc. He is a cruiser and likes to drive it like road trips from NJ to FL & back, but no racing. He has all sorts of issues from ¼ tank and down. If he is having trouble I’d have all sorts of issues. Last I talked to him he was waiting for an improved tank from spectra. I’ll have to follow up.

I’m not building a high $$ car, but not being able to run the tank reasonably low is still not an option for me. EFI should be an improvement not a hindrance. Think of how fun power tour would be stopping for gas every 100 miles.

[Ishmael]

Good point but I think Tony and I were talking about the new tank which I still hear complaints about. You are right though - it wouldn't be much fun even if you had to stop half as much fun as carb guys. That's why I'm hoping that this new vaporworx tank fills that niche.

[Rhino]

I've been doing some searching around, and really haven't found many affordable options for those of us running a mild steel tank. think I'll end up sticking with my original plan of a 4th gen f-body pickup in a stock style tank.
Vetteworks sells a weld on adapter ring that will fit the f-body unit. As Carl's unit is, I'll end up recessing the pickup in about 1", but I'll also have to build a 2.5" sump on the bottom of the tank front for bucket clearance.

[Ishmael]

I would do something like that if I could but I can't so I won't. I'm holding out just a little while longer until I hear from Chris which I am hoping is sometime soon.

[daytonayellaz]

Any updates on this new tank yet?

[Cris@JCG]

I am working on it guys.. Sorry for the delay.. but want to make sure that pricing is good & that components are all available for me to purchacse to have a sellable item..



I would do something like that if I could but I can't so I won't. I'm holding out just a little while longer until I hear from Chris which I am hoping is sometime soon.


Any updates on this new tank yet?

[milehigh69]

Add me to the list.

[Taylor1969]

Add me to the list.

Me too!

[rs1968ss]

I've been lurking for quite awhile but I'm interested in this tank as well. I'm putting a 496 with the Holley EFI setup in my 68 and need to do something with the tank.

[dropped72ss]

Any new info on this tank? I need a tank for my 72 chevelle w ls2 soon.

[srh3trinity]

I am hopeful too. The Vaporworks tank looks great, but isn't in my price range. I was thinking of going with a late model LT1 Caprice/Roadmaster tank, but I am going to have to do some measuring.

[beyonda68]

So whats the story with the tank? Is it FIX or not. Can really use a tank right now.

[Cris@JCG]

Ok guys.. I have been trying to get the pricing for a complete unit as pictured.. but still not cheap .. I can do this tank for 1200.00 ready to install.. I tried to find every possible angle to get the cost down.. but it just keeps coming @ the listed price..

The unit you see here is for a car that we are building here @ the shop..

67-69 Camaro & Firebird only @ this time...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/IMG_0965-1.jpg

[Ishmael]

I'm sure it works great and will fit the bill for a guy who wants a stock appearance.

[Rhino]

If that's as pictured (with fuel pump/bucket) I think that's a good price. Nothing to be ashamed of there. :)

[s10pro]

is the bung to the right the return

[BonzoHansen]

Ok guys.. I have been trying to get the pricing for a complete unit as pictured.. but still not cheap .. I can do this tank for 1200.00 ready to install.. I tried to find every possible angle to get the cost down.. but it just keeps coming @ the listed price..

The unit you see here is for a car that we are building here @ the shop..

67-69 Camaro & Firebird only @ this time...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/03/IMG_0965-1.jpg



$1200 for what I see here? So a SS stock style tank with a 2010 camaro fuel unit & pickups already in it?

[Cris@JCG]

The bung is to run a remote breather for tank.. Return line can be added.. but not required for the 2010 Camaro fuel module..


is the bung to the right the return

Correct.. As you seee the tank in the pic... all you have to do is wire it & connect the fuel line.. 1200.00


$1200 for what I see here? So a SS stock style tank with a 2010 camaro fuel unit & pickups already in it?

[BonzoHansen]

I think that price is great. That fuel unit isn't peanuts.

Now make it for 2nd gens :p

[CarlC]

No return line needed or recommended. It would defeat the purpose of the module.

[Taylor1969]

Does the $1200 come with the controller that Carl has been talking about or is it just the tank, pickup and pump?

I guess I'll faint when I hear Carl's price as this is not the most budget friendly solution. I suppose that it pushes a fabbed aluminum tank closer to the 2K mark.

[Taylor1969]

When I run fuel lines, can I just run a single nylon FI line to the front and plug in to my FI or will I still need to run the corvette regulator/filter, etc?

I guess the main question is - this gets me the tank... what do I need to finish the job if I have a stock LS crate engine.

Thanks,
Chris

[Rhino]

I guess I'll faint when I hear Carl's price as this is not the most budget friendly solution.

While I agree it's not as cheap as some other options, I think this is a much better "value."
Keep in mind that this is turn key ready to go. Most tanks will require a separate fuel pump, regulator, and all the fittings that go along with it. Considering the rock solid OEM fueling solution you're getting with no fab or research, I think it's a pretty good price.

No corvette reg/filter needed. With the fuel module all you'd need is routing from the outlet to your fuel rail.

[Cris@JCG]

Thank you for helping with the explanation!


While I agree it's not as cheap as some other options, I think this is a much better "value."
Keep in mind that this is turn key ready to go. Most tanks will require a separate fuel pump, regulator, and all the fittings that go along with it. Considering the rock solid OEM fueling solution you're getting with no fab or research, I think it's a pretty good price.

No corvette reg/filter needed. With the fuel module all you'd need is routing from the outlet to your fuel rail.

[ErikLS2]

For reference I'll have about $1550-1600 in my Vaporworx tank when all is said and done if my quick math is correct.

[CarlC]

A single line to the fuel rail is all that is needed as long as you can either adapt to a female -6 or directly to the male 3/8" GM quick connect fitting on the module.

For a stock LS crate engine it should work very well. The module will already have a 58psi regulator in it, so the tank is basically ready to go.

This setup is for 0-90 ohm gauges.

Basically, here's what you need to do:

1) The wiring harness is made in two pieces. The one piece that plugs into the module and runs to the fuel neck, and the piece that plugs into the first one. Disconnect them at the plug. Attach the plug to the module and tape the harness to the centerline of the tank.

2) Put the tank in the car.

3) Connect the wiring plug and route the four wires to 1) Pump +, 2) Pump -, 3) Fuel gauge, 4) Fuel gauge -.

4) Connect your fuel line.

That's pretty much it.

[Taylor1969]

Do you need inline filters at some point or is that also included in the module? Do I basically cut and flare the stock hard line or am I better off running a new nylon hose from point to point?

Thanks,
Chris

[CarlC]

The module has a filter in it. No need for additional filters but the line will need to be flushed before final attachment to the fuel rail.

You can use the stock hardline if you can double-flare it to a 37*AN. You may also find it easier to use an Aeroquip or Earl's Teflon hose with compression ferrule ends that you can install. That way the routing and length of the line can be decided by you.

My personal picks are:

1) PTFE flex line to the frame rail, stainless hardline to the engine compartment, PTFE flex line to the fuel rail.

2) PTFE flex line all the way.

3) Nylon hose. The hard part about this is getting everything connected at the junctions, plus the high initial cost for the installation tooling and fittings.

4) Rubber hose of any kind. Braided, unbraided, etc.

[beyonda68]

:pics2: would be great.

[CarlC]

:pics2: would be great.

Check out post #22

[beyonda68]

Ok. I read all the post from Rick's tanks and I just read this one. What other major difference besides construction and cost. What about the internals that Carl created for the vaporworks tanks? The ability to corner at great speed with out loosing fuel pressure? Can someone help me out with that. I'm ready to get a tank and I needed it yesterday.

[beyonda68]

Ok just seen post # 22. Thanks Carl. Man your fast.

[beyonda68]

:hammer: just read post 56.

[CarlC]

Ok. What about the internals that Carl created for the vaporworks tanks? The ability to corner at great speed with out loosing fuel pressure?

See post 25.

[beyonda68]

How about a group purchase?

[TheBandit]

$1200 for a stainless baffled tank including pump, regulator and filter sounds like a great price to me. How do I get one for my 3rd gen Nova? I have seen stainless OEM style tanks available, for example here (http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=Nova&Product_Code=XTS-46B&Category_Code=FUELTANKS), and I live right down the street from JGC.

[CarlC]

You should take your idea over to Cris' and see what he says. He's pretty close to you.

[TheBandit]

You should take your idea over to Cris' and see what he says. He's pretty close to you.

Yes sir, he's right down the street from me. I'll try giving him a call today sometime. Thanks for the PM also.

[BanditDave]

I just recently got a Vaporworx Tank set-up for my Olds 442. I upgraded with the CTS-V pump and added a return bung for now. I am eager to see Carl's progress on the Boost-referenced controller...for now I will just run my system with a return per usual.

Can't wait to get my tank dang it!!!

[DarkoNova]

Hey Carl, is it at all possible to use this new setup and regulate it for a carb? Just wondering because I need to do some bodywork on the Nova and I'd like to put a Camaro trunk and gas tank in it so I can move the gas cap up to the rear tail panel. It'd be nice to be able to get this tank now instead of having to mod mine or buy a stock Camaro tank, only to have to replace it later with this one.

[CarlC]

BanditDave,

Are you N/A or boosted? If N/A the constant pressure system works well. It would be just like a C5 Corvette Fuel-Filter-Regulator. I run the constant pressure system in mine @ 9 psi boost. It's all in the tune.

I just finished testing the manifold referenced system for N/A / 1bar MAP senors. It works well with pretty close to a 1:1 relationship. A pound or so difference won't change the A/F hardly at all.

Matt,

Sorry, I don't think there is an easy way to do that. At 6psi the pump will empty the reservoir very quickly. The return must go into the module reservoir or else all kinds of ugly things happen, and to try and do that with an external regulator is not easy to do.

[El Numero1]

How about a group purchase?

I´m in! i need to buy a fuel tank pretty soon and seems like anybody sells the spectra tank anymore..

[tlillard23]

Tag

[Sinnister69]

i know this is an old thread. been searching for a good efi tank
but even still to me $1200 for a tank is way too much.
on the camaro forums i was directed to Tanks inc.
after tank, sender, and fuel pump that is suitable to your engine requirements, throw in shipping and a tank for my 69 camaro comes to a total of $622
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=348/category_id=144/home_id=143/mode=prod/prd348.htm

[Blevinator]

i know this is an old thread. been searching for a good efi tank
but even still to me $1200 for a tank is way too much.
on the camaro forums i was directed to Tanks inc.
after tank, sender, and fuel pump that is suitable to your engine requirements, throw in shipping and a tank for my 69 camaro comes to a total of $622
http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=348/category_id=144/home_id=143/mode=prod/prd348.htm

I am purchasing tanks inc also
With new 450lph walbro and sending unit, $600
is great! Finally, someone is getting more reasonable
with their gold!

[SShep71]

600.00 is still a good chuck of change with out a sending unit. I think Im gonna build my own. See how I stand against a ricks tank. I def have enough time to design it!

[Sinnister69]

600.00 is still a good chuck of change with out a sending unit. I think Im gonna build my own. See how I stand against a ricks tank. I def have enough time to design it!

that $600 includes pump and sender

[SShep71]

Thanks sinnister!