Hardline vs. Teflon Braided

[nitetrain4590]

Searched for the topic, but no luck on the specific question. Is there anything wrong with running full length teflon -6 AN fuel line for supply and return the entire length of the car? I know anytime you're running from hardline to fuel tank you should use teflon (or related flexible hose) and anytime you move the line through the frame. Seems like it would be easier to me to run it front to rear and cut down on the opportunities to spring a leak....and teflon line has a pretty high operating pressure. Does anyone know of any adverse conditions when running teflon line would not be advisable? Does the Aeroquip stuff collapse when bent past 90*? For my engine/efi kit, I need 3/8" (-6AN) for both supply and return. Thanks for the help.

[oestek]

I'm not a big fan of that much hose. It also gets pricey very fast! If it were me, I'd run good old fashioned 3/8" steel or stainless tube with swageloc or sleeve nuts on the ends, and go a short piece of hose at the ends or where it may flex. You can double flare sections to make it easier to install and remove, and it's going to be WAY cheaper, if you're up for bending & flaring.

[nitetrain4590]

Thanks for the tip, Kevin. By the way, love your show. The work you guys did on the 69 Chevelle SS 496 helped with building my 69 Malibu. Gonna try my hand at hand bending the 3/8" steel and flaring 37* for the AN fittings.

[oestek]

Thanks! It's not real hard to do, but 3/8" line can kink if you don't have a decent tubing bender. Take it slow. Also, you don't have to do a 37 degree flare if you don't have the tool.. you can do a standard 45 degree double flare and use a flare to AN adapter for the hose connecitons. The Swageloc deal is a compression fitting that goes on straight tube and has an AN fitting on the other side.. they're really nice, too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/66GTO51208_s_016-1.jpg

Installed on hard 3/8" fuel line -

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/66GTO51208_s_018-1.jpg

[old66tiger]

Bending hard line is the best, but it gets really tricky back by the rear axle and getting it snaked through the frame and such is quite a chore. Also, you will need to fabricate in several pieces to join the front and rear together properly. Also, the best hardline to get comes in straight lengths and not rolls. The longest length of straight tubing that I know of is 6'. As a result, unless you are building a car as a frame off deal, I would recommend using the TFE line from front to back. I picked up -8 TFE for $3.44 and -6 for like $2.58/ft at aeroquip.cc on line. It is the TW-S line and is the industrial cousin to the racing hose. This hose is IDENTICAL to the racing in every fashion. I called Aeroquip and talked with tech and found out that the TFE hose fittings for racing and industrial are also IDENTICAL and interchangable. I priced Type-O aluminum against the TFE and found that running TFE runs about $75 more by the time you offset the cost of the fittings and hose against the cost of a HIGH quality aluminum tubing and necessary tubing. You will need flexible hose at the tank and the motor anyway so there will always be the need for hose and fittings anyway.

Under no circumstances should you use the run of the mill rubber braided hose for fuel line. This stuff has a history of failing and fuel leaks are not something to mess with.

I am not a big fan of the compression fittings. If the tubing is not perfect, you can have issues with the compression fittings. Swagelock fittings and tubing is much more expensive than the Aeroquip TFE hose and fittings.

[MonzaRacer]

I am thinking of getting Dorman plastic line kit and going plastic like new cars!

[oestek]

I've had the Dorman plastic line on our EFI '62 Galaxie for nearly 10 years and it's been trouble free.

[t/a-speedfreak]

My 3/8" SS tubing came in a 20' length. I had it cut in half for two 10' pieces. It can be found.

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Bending hard line is the best, but it gets really tricky back by the rear axle and getting it snaked through the frame and such is quite a chore. Also, you will need to fabricate in several pieces to join the front and rear together properly. Also, the best hardline to get comes in straight lengths and not rolls. The longest length of straight tubing that I know of is 6'. As a result, unless you are building a car as a frame off deal, I would recommend using the TFE line from front to back. I picked up -8 TFE for $3.44 and -6 for like $2.58/ft at aeroquip.cc on line. It is the TW-S line and is the industrial cousin to the racing hose. This hose is IDENTICAL to the racing in every fashion. I called Aeroquip and talked with tech and found out that the TFE hose fittings for racing and industrial are also IDENTICAL and interchangable. I priced Type-O aluminum against the TFE and found that running TFE runs about $75 more by the time you offset the cost of the fittings and hose against the cost of a HIGH quality aluminum tubing and necessary tubing. You will need flexible hose at the tank and the motor anyway so there will always be the need for hose and fittings anyway.

Under no circumstances should you use the run of the mill rubber braided hose for fuel line. This stuff has a history of failing and fuel leaks are not something to mess with.

I am not a big fan of the compression fittings. If the tubing is not perfect, you can have issues with the compression fittings. Swagelock fittings and tubing is much more expensive than the Aeroquip TFE hose and fittings.

WOW .. Thanks for this info on the industrial stuff from aeroquip.cc. I have been looking to get my hose from them but looked only at the race/performace side. I was planning on getting hose for my fuel. remote oil filter, and trans cooler from the race/perf side. I'll definately take a closer look at the industrial side. I like the PTFE stuff since it cuts way down on fume seapage.

[Fuelie Nova]

What diameter tubing is used with the dorman kit? This would be a fun project for my Nova.
Tom

[parsonsj]

The fuel line doesn't have to be SS. Aluminum is actually a better choice: it's plenty strong, it's lighter, it radiates heat better, it's easier to bend, and it seals better.

And yes, you can get it in 22' straight lengths.

jp

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

The fuel line doesn't have to be SS. Aluminum is actually a better choice: it's plenty strong, it's lighter, it radiates heat better, it's easier to bend, and it seals better.

And yes, you can get it in 22' straight lengths.

jp

From ??? And what's the best type/spec to use for fuel lines ?? I am not opposed to running hard lines along the frame for my system.

[parsonsj]

I get mine from either Dillsburg Aeroplane Works (22'), or McMaster-Carr (6'). .035 wall thickness 6061 is what I use.

The Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
Aircraft-Race Car-Machine Shop-Raw Materials
Charles T. Vogelsong
114 Sawmill Road, Dillsburg, Pa 17019
(717) 432-4589

jp

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Thanks for the info...

[1badchevelle]

I am doing the aluminum hard line with the swagelok ends. I got my tube from Mcmaster 6' hardline and the fitting dirrect from swagelok. I have most of my parts to do the fuel line and will be working on it this weekend.

[TnBlkC230WZ]

I am thinking of getting Dorman plastic line kit and going plastic like new cars!

I've looked at the Dorman Plastic line, but can only find short sections of it. Is t available by the roll?

[Jimmy Sean]

I've looked at the Dorman Plastic line, but can only find short sections of it. Is t available by the roll?

It is available in a 25' roll.

800-074 5/15"
800-072 3/8"

http://www.amazon.com/Dorman-800072-Nylon-Tubing/dp/B000CIXMM8/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_b

[JRouche]

Searched for the topic, but no luck on the specific question. Is there anything wrong with running full length teflon -6 AN fuel line for supply and return the entire length of the car?

Nope, no problem at all. Teflon core stainless hose is great. I happen to have about 1500ft of the stuff in various diameters and use it whenever I can. Some of it is convoluted teflon core (which bends easier) but most of it is smooth bore and it will still make a nice turn to form some fuel lines. Good fittings are a must. But yeah, teflon core stainless hose can be used for the entire length of the car. JR

[milehigh69]

I use the teflon core hose. Easy to use, does not smell or leak and looks nice. It also flows more gas, larger ID.

[steinepstein]

Old66tiger,

Thanks very much for the tip on the industrial teflon hose.

I ordered 20' of -8 and 20' of -6 and it was super cheap, basically the same price as 20' of -8 from Summit.

I will get the lines fitted and run them over to Rad Rides to crimp the ends. This should provide a bullet proof fuel system that can take on E85, gas, and any other fuel.

Thanks again,

Jon

[67 455 Bird ragtop]

Old66tiger,

Thanks very much for the tip on the industrial teflon hose.

I ordered 20' of -8 and 20' of -6 and it was super cheap, basically the same price as 20' of -8 from Summit.

I will get the lines fitted and run them over to Rad Rides to crimp the ends. This should provide a bullet proof fuel system that can take on E85, gas, and any other fuel.

Thanks again,

Jon


X2!!! I've been buying all my hose and fittings from them ever since I read this post. Saved me a TON of $$ over other vendors. But they are a little slow in shipping out items.

[nitetrain4590]

46883468824688146884

Thanks for all the help and recommendations. This is what the end product ended up looking like. A lot of hand bending -6 SS hard line with Teflon core Aeroquip through the frame and a bolt on bulkhead.

[MonzaRacer]

honestly doing the majority in hard line, then doing some sort of flared fitting or even a bulk head type of fitting and minimal flexible line just plain looks more professional.
Heck I have seen people bumped from tracks using flexible line front to back. The thing is I saw a guy use AN bulkhead fittings. He picked up a Mastercool hydraulic flaring tool, did 37 flares on hard line and it looked so much better and I even feel safer.
As for aluminum, some states have vehicle codes not allowing it, or copper, so check first and if selling a car it can even cause the buyer issues.
Bad thing with aluminum is it work hardens. This means it gets harder as it flexes and cracks as its bent.
I have even watched tracks date drag cars fuel line and mandate replacement after so many seasons.
AND I have found the livability of aluminum pretty poor so think it through, a little easy now vs never having to remove it and slight price difference now.
As for the arguments on plastic, is it has had many years testing and if you ever saw how much abuse that stuff can take and still flow fuel. Its incredible. And we actually know the aluminum will crack if flexed or vibrates.
Good old fashion straight lines, in steel, either the painted/teflon coated stuff OR give it a light scuff with scotchbrite and paint it with a good zinc chromate primer and paint it. I like doing this as I live in high rust area heck one of the things I am good at at work is replacing fuel/brake lines.
big trick for flaring is get a good fine toothed file, make sure it has good handle tail. I use the file to put slight bevel to remove the ridge made by cutter, I also will use the file tail to clean the ridge inside, then even file the end. This makes a better flare, especially with a hydraulic flaring tool. THAT IS BEST MONEY I EVER SPENT. Well next to my Phoenix Injector.
Also a good line wrench set and AN wrench set will make build go much smoother. Oh and if using parts store line some clear top coat on top of scuffing with scotchbrite and your good to go.

[parsonsj]

Bad thing with aluminum is it work hardens. This means it gets harder as it flexes and cracks as its bent.That's true of both aluminum and stainless steel, and SS is actually worse. The key is to get annealed or non-hardened tube.

Also: don't use a tubing cutter. That work hardens the end of the tube right where you need the most ductility for flaring. Use a bandsaw (or hacksaw) instead, and then clean and square the ends with a file or belt sander.

jp

[rb70383]

Thanks! It's not real hard to do, but 3/8" line can kink if you don't have a decent tubing bender. Take it slow. Also, you don't have to do a 37 degree flare if you don't have the tool.. you can do a standard 45 degree double flare and use a flare to AN adapter for the hose connecitons. The Swageloc deal is a compression fitting that goes on straight tube and has an AN fitting on the other side.. they're really nice, too.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/66GTO51208_s_016-1.jpg

Installed on hard 3/8" fuel line -

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/02/66GTO51208_s_018-1.jpg

What is the number for those fittings? I saw it posted here and now cant find them.

[socorob]

Another problem with aluminum is ethanol will corrode it. I know a few people who have been having trouble with that in aluminum tanks in boats. It eats away at the aluminum oxide and even gelcoat in the built in fiberglass tanks, so you may want to go stainless or teflon to be a little future proof, since theres no telling what gas will be like 5 years from now.

[Skip Fix]

The industrial PTFE 2807 FBC -8 at 20 ' is still $138 the same as 20 " -8 at Summit of Aeroquip teflon lined.

[Brads70]

Great info thanks! I got a Swageloc fitting for 1/2" and will be ordering PTFE hose and fittings to plumb the entire fuel system from frozenboost!:cheers:

[diesel25lrs]

Great info thanks! I got a Swageloc fitting for 1/2" and will be ordering PTFE hose and fittings to plumb the entire fuel system from frozenboost!:cheers:

Did you happen to run the PTFE from frozenboost yet? I was looking hard at getting that until I did some research on it...I was wondering why it's soooo much cheaper than the others...It also has the white inner lining which I read is not nearly as good as the black lining, also made overseas... Another guy on Camaro 5 says that the fittings dont work on it-leaks like a civ...I'm going with the aeroquip and not taking any chances!

[Brads70]

Did you happen to run the PTFE from frozenboost yet? I was looking hard at getting that until I did some research on it...I was wondering why it's soooo much cheaper than the others...It also has the white inner lining which I read is not nearly as good as the black lining, also made overseas... Another guy on Camaro 5 says that the fittings dont work on it-leaks like a civ...I'm going with the aeroquip and not taking any chances!

No I haven't ordered them yet. Glad you spoke up! What fitting was he refering to? The ones on frozenboost? Do you have any links?
Thanks Brad

[diesel25lrs]

Dont have the link... It was a thread over on ls1 tech i believe... The bottom line is you dont want the white inner tube lining- get the black. Its antistatic if i recall & much better for fuel use! Im going with hardline down the frame rail & HS-79 on both ends for the flex!

[Brads70]

Dont have the link... It was a thread over on ls1 tech i believe... The bottom line is you dont want the white inner tube lining- get the black. Its antistatic if i recall & much better for fuel use! Im going with hardline down the frame rail & HS-79 on both ends for the flex!

Ok Thanks! I see frozenboost has black PTFE hose too?
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=219&products_id=1241&osCsid=6dd5cc73b412f25e6949c519f71b64d3

[Samckitt]

I've had the Dorman plastic line on our EFI '62 Galaxie for nearly 10 years and it's been trouble free.

Hey Kevin, what type of fittings is used on this type of hose to connect to AN fittings, Quick connects, etc?
Thanks,
Scot

[joeelutz]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but could you guys tell me where you are buying Swageloc fittings?

[Ollie8974]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but could you guys tell me where you are buying Swageloc fittings?

Google Swageloc, go to their home page they list their vendors.

[Ollie8974]

Hey Kevin, what type of fittings is used on this type of hose to connect to AN fittings, Quick connects, etc?
Thanks,
Scot

http://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-injection/1085884-nylon-fuel-line-fitting-attachment.html
This post is very informative regarding the nylon fuel line. Especially #19

[The WidowMaker]

I picked up -8 TFE for $3.44 and -6 for like $2.58/ft at aeroquip.cc on line.

i know this is old, but which hose did you find? cheapest i can find is 10 bucks a foot for the -8 and thats the industrial.

[Brads70]

Don't want to hijack the thread, but could you guys tell me where you are buying Swageloc fittings?

I bought mine off E-Bay

[Nothingface5384]

I know old thread but.

Has anyone thought about using NiCopp or Cunifer for a Fuel line?
as long as you can get them in correct size it should work correct as Brakelines handle more pressure then Fuel lines

Just curious as they dont rust and dont have a work harden issue.

As for flexable lines I think this is best that im aware of..http://www.techafx.com/catalog/49