Speedtech Subframe?

[g356gear]

I haven't seen many guys running the Speedtech sub-frame for the 69 Camaro. Mostly just the DSE units. Cost wise Speedtech has a big advantage and you can use different spindle and control arm set ups on their unit. Sub only weighs 125 lbs as well. Anyone have any feedback with the Speedtech unit as a comparison?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ProdigyCustoms]

It is a awesome piece and recent performance reports of the Speedtech test car Nova prove it. Out gunned by a few hundred horsepower they are within a couple ticks of the baddest cars on the planet at Optima Challenge. 5th overall with 450HP to 500HP at that event is pretty damn impressive!

You being in Canada, even makes it more of a no brainer.

[Roadrage David]

wat is the diferense in weight against the stok frame ,and will it house a pontiac engine!.
also can you run al the other stock stuf stearing box ecetera...and what is the price of a bare frame..thanks

[g356gear]

wat is the diferense in weight against the stok frame ,and will it house a pontiac engine!.
also can you run al the other stock stuf stearing box ecetera...and what is the price of a bare frame..thanks

Subframes are for F-bodies and accept small block, big block and LS engines. Sub weighs 125 lbs and in bare steel, cost is $2195

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=145/category_id=237/home_id=-1/mode=prod/prd145.htm

[killer69]

We have had 2-3 customers install pontiac engines including Frank. we do not have motor mounts for the Pontiac as the demand hass been really low. but they wil fit. the Stock Steering BOx is NOT an Option, and the Rack and pinion must be used.

[Roadrage David]

So this rack and pinion works with a pontiac engine!! Thats a first...............manual ore power stearing, and can you buy the supframe bare with the rack and pinion only??.. Thanks

[killer69]

So this rack and pinion works with a pontiac engine!! Thats a first...............manual ore power stearing, and can you buy the supframe bare with the rack and pinion only??.. Thanks

well consider the rack is offered as an upgrade for the stock subframe and takes the place of the steering linkage. so the factory pontiac oil pan would have had to clear the original steering linkage. if your wanting a pontiac engine you will have to fab your own motor mounts and headers.

yes you can buy the sub and rack only

[Roadrage David]

cool what price!!! and what stearing ratio. thanks

[killer69]

The sub is 2195.00 bare including all the hardware, rack and pinion 859.00 14.1 ratio and take into account the steering arms are also slightly shorter than a stock arm so the steering feels faster.

[GregG69camaro]

hi, im interested in the speedtech complete sub frame, and from the vancouver area just wondering if you have a showroom and shop in town or is your business done online?

[Roadrage David]

Is the 12.1 ratio availeble as wel.....

[scherp69]

edit

[killer69]

yes we do have a shop 1-888-467-1625 give us a call

[TheJDMan]

The DSE and Art Morrison front subframes are both front steer rack & pinion, The SpeedTech subframe is rear steer. I'm wondering if one is preferred over the other. Logically, a front steer arrangement should be stronger since the tie rods would be under an extension load rather than a compression load.

[johnny68]

blake is a great guy to deal with looking foward to seeing his car and and meeting the gang
john

[Roadrage David]

The DSE and Art Morrison front subframes are both front steer rack & pinion, The SpeedTech subframe is rear steer. I'm wondering if one is preferred over the other. Logically, a front steer arrangement should be stronger since the tie rods would be under an extension load rather than a compression load.
Mij gues is that due to the rear rack and pinion in the rear there is room for the Pontiac engine???

[killer69]

The DSE and Art Morrison front subframes are both front steer rack & pinion, The SpeedTech subframe is rear steer. I'm wondering if one is preferred over the other. Logically, a front steer arrangement should be stronger since the tie rods would be under an extension load rather than a compression load.

why would you think that LOGICALLY it is stronger? what would make an extension load better than a compression load? in which direction of pull are your connecting rods strongest? there is really no differance in strength. The differance is only in the packaging. Both work equally well.

[formula]

I would think that due to the way a typical tie rod is designed (especially considering length to cross section) it would be more prone to buckling under compression than failing under extension. From a kinematic standpoint, I could see this popping up as deflection in the tie rods lunder load leading to some strange behavior. Wasn't that why GM moved to front steer on 2nd gens? Of course that's recirculating ball vs. rack and pinion, but the basic physics behind the two should be the same, if perhaps to different extents.

[Bryce]

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?61495-front-or-rear-steer&highlight=

This a short discussion on front vs rear steer.

[ProTour69Bird]

So i was originally planning on using my stock sub. But now im looking for tire clearance, im interested in this subframe for the amount of tire clearance.

On the site, it says any aftermarket control arm made for the stock sub will work. I have SPC uppers and chris alston coilover lowers with ATS spindles. There arent two types of spindle still, is there? (like the tall one and a gulstrand mod one). Curious to know, with this sub, my uppers and 18x9.5 40et(equals 6.8" b/s) with 285 or 295 would i have clearance issues?

Do other aftermarket racks fit since they would be mounting in the same location? i'm looking at a manual rack.

My rear sub mounts are solid now(fixed), the front 2 on the body still have the loose nuts. Do you think i will have alignment issues?
mounts like this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2725-1.jpg

Definitly interested due to the amount of mods im about to do to my stock sub without any extra tire gain.

[Norm Peterson]

From a kinematic standpoint, I could see this popping up as deflection in the tie rods lunder load leading to some strange behavior. Wasn't that why GM moved to front steer on 2nd gens? Of course that's recirculating ball vs. rack and pinion, but the basic physics behind the two should be the same, if perhaps to different extents.
It's not really about tierod deflection, and possibly not about resistance to buckling either. I suspect that in most cases developing the tierod buckling load would yank the steering wheel out of your hands.

The move to front steer allows the use of softer control arm bushings, because the compliance steer then becomes an understeer effect rather than oversteer. Basically, you want the cornering load to induce the outboard wheel to steer slightly out of the turn rather than more tightly into it, which requires whichever component is in front - steering linkage or control arm(s) - to have the stiffer mounting.

A rear steer car really needs to either be using rather firm control arm bushings, or relatively soft rack mounting bushings, or possibly both (particularly with the sort of tires available now vs back in the early/mid 1960's). Most FWD cars are rear steer by necessity, and the rack mounting is soft enough that the whole rack visibly moves laterally when the steering wheel is turned with the car stopped and the full car weight is resting on just the tires.


Norm

[killer69]

So i was originally planning on using my stock sub. But now im looking for tire clearance, im interested in this subframe for the amount of tire clearance.

On the site, it says any aftermarket control arm made for the stock sub will work. I have SPC uppers and chris alston coilover lowers with ATS spindles. There arent two types of spindle still, is there? (like the tall one and a gulstrand mod one). Curious to know, with this sub, my uppers and 18x9.5 40et(equals 6.8" b/s) with 285 or 295 would i have clearance issues?


Do other aftermarket racks fit since they would be mounting in the same location? i'm looking at a manual rack.

My rear sub mounts are solid now(fixed), the front 2 on the body still have the loose nuts. Do you think i will have alignment issues?
mounts like this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/IMG_2725-1.jpg

Definitly interested due to the amount of mods im about to do to my stock sub without any extra tire gain.

there is no reason the SPC and Alston arms won't fit, they are probably not "Ideal" as we spent alot of time on the arms and sway bar to fit up to a 19x10 with a 7"bs the best fitment is a 18x 9.5 with a 6.5bs and you can fit a 285,295 on a 9.5"rim

there are still 2 spindles the tall and standard height.
as long as your welded in body mount nuts are in the correct location there is still some adjustment available with the aluminum body mounts.

the sub is available with a manual rack also.

the biggest clearance issue you will have is that you will need to run tha factory style sway bar, this is where you will have contact issues. the swaybar that is specific for the subfram has the most clearance but can only be used with the Hi Clearance arms.

[ProTour69Bird]

"• Extra adjustments built into the frame to fine tune your suspension." what kind of adjustments?

What gauge material is the subs construction?

What length coilovers can be used with this sub? gonna run koni 3012's all around

Whats the manual ratio? Did you use any particular companies rack, if so, whose?

On the adjustable SPC's i can turn the forward bend of the arm inward so they look similar to your hi clearance uppers. i was planning on setting up a custom sway bar with splined ends and figure out what style end links will give me the most clearance(similar to art morrison and C5's)

I'm assuming the 6.5bs is based on your spindles, they look like they stick out further than most. Will I still need to run wheel adaptors with my ATS spindle? I have C6 ZR1 wheels, I was planning on using wheel adaptors to correctly place the wheels in the wheel wells. 2" adaptors is what I figured to compensate a 275with 6.8"bs, close but a little shy to make up the bs difference. Now with 295's, probably a little thinner adaptor.

Body mounts were done one side at a time, so 3points were always attached. Should be just fine with the little bit I can fudge around with the solid mounts.

So does getting one of these take as long as the spindles, or are they more readily available and in stock. Glad i'm in washington, could i just pick it up???

thanks Blake

[killer69]

"• Extra adjustments built into the frame to fine tune your suspension." what kind of adjustments?

What gauge material is the subs construction?

What length coilovers can be used with this sub? gonna run koni 3012's all around

Whats the manual ratio? Did you use any particular companies rack, if so, whose?

On the adjustable SPC's i can turn the forward bend of the arm inward so they look similar to your hi clearance uppers. i was planning on setting up a custom sway bar with splined ends and figure out what style end links will give me the most clearance(similar to art morrison and C5's)

I'm assuming the 6.5bs is based on your spindles, they look like they stick out further than most. Will I still need to run wheel adaptors with my ATS spindle? I have C6 ZR1 wheels, I was planning on using wheel adaptors to correctly place the wheels in the wheel wells. 2" adaptors is what I figured to compensate a 275with 6.8"bs, close but a little shy to make up the bs difference. Now with 295's, probably a little thinner adaptor.

Body mounts were done one side at a time, so 3points were always attached. Should be just fine with the little bit I can fudge around with the solid mounts.

So does getting one of these take as long as the spindles, or are they more readily available and in stock. Glad i'm in washington, could i just pick it up???

thanks Blake

The adjustment is in the upper control arm mounting, there is the original location the guildstrand location as well the arm can be "finetuned" between the two locations.. this allows you to fine tune your camber gain.

The material used is all .125 except for some critical areas the upper control arm mounts are 5/16 with 5/16 gussets. the body mounts, front frame horns and lower control arm mounts are 3/16.

The coil overs that come are QA1's 9.5" compressed 12 5/8 extended with a ride height of 10 3/4-11 1/4 using a 1/2 x 1.25 wide upper mount and a T bar lower mount. we now have Ride tech available as well. the qa1's use a 9" spring.

The manual rack is 3 turns lock to lock and has 6" of travel. sorry no actual Ratio it is made by Unisteer

On the arms that should work fine. sway bar ????

The spindles are 6.5lb lighter than a comparable disk brake spindle both fully loaded. The spindles DO NOT change the track width from stock 59.5"

The delivery time on the sub frames is normally 1 2 weeks, We do not keep the manual rack in stock so that would need to be ordered

[rob07002]

I'm very happy with my Speedtech subframe. I can't compare to DSE, Art Mor, or any others, since I haven't driven any others, but the piece is very strong, well made, the steering is firm and very responsive and just an overall very stable and tunable platform. Add the fact that since it uses stock spindles you have many more brake options and not married to vette stuff like some of the other frames. Blake and Co. is great to deal with and their customer service is top notch.

[ProTour69Bird]

The adjustment is in the upper control arm mounting, there is the original location the guildstrand location as well the arm can be "finetuned" between the two locations.. this allows you to fine tune your camber gain. gotcha. i saw it had the gulstrand mod, didnt know you could use stock also.

The material used is all .125 except for some critical areas the upper control arm mounts are 5/16 with 5/16 gussets. the body mounts, front frame horns and lower control arm mounts are 3/16. Awesome, the more and more i examine my frame...... the more and more i want your sub.

The coil overs that come are QA1's 9.5" compressed 12 5/8 extended with a ride height of 10 3/4-11 1/4 using a 1/2 x 1.25 wide upper mount and a T bar lower mount. we now have Ride tech available as well. the qa1's use a 9" spring. Is the upper coilover mount included with the bare Sub? Whats your spring rates? I was gonna start off in the 650-750lb range

The manual rack is 3 turns lock to lock and has 6" of travel. sorry no actual Ratio it is made by Unisteer.

On the arms that should work fine. sway bar ???? I really like my UCA's, no need for shims, completely adjustable, and pretty light weight. Sway bar will be hard to figure out until I have this sub.:twothumbs

The spindles are 6.5lb lighter than a comparable disk brake spindle both fully loaded. The spindles DO NOT change the track width from stock 59.5" Won't the wheel end up to close to the frame rails? I thought that positive offset wheels needed the extra adaptor to push the wheels <OUT>.

Have you ever done any track driving with any test cars? Just wondering, does this sub allow full "steering degree"(i dont know what to call this) with 295's, or are there steering limiters on the lower arms? I'm just thinking of future track driving when i wont need all the "steering degrees" for street driving, how wide a tire could squeeze up front and still turn? track daze would be fun with 305-315's on the front!!!

The delivery time on the sub frames is normally 1 2 weeks, We do not keep the manual rack in stock so that would need to be ordered. Right on, dont you ship out of sumas?

Looks like you got yourself a near future customer.
-Brian

[ProTour69Bird]

"married to vette stuff"???? Match made in heaven! Im starting off with C5 Z06 brakes all around, then upgrading to StopTech's C5 big brake kit in a few years. Love C5's, im fixin to get its IRS and transaxle as a bolt in option on the bird.

[rob07002]

"married to vette stuff"???? Match made in heaven! Im starting off with C5 Z06 brakes all around, then upgrading to StopTech's C5 big brake kit in a few years. Love C5's, im fixin to get its IRS and transaxle as a bolt in option on the bird.

Not everyone wants to run vette brakes. Plus the cost for aftermarket "vette" brake packages as with almost everything for a vette is more expensive compared to it's equal for a different setup. Don't get me wrong, vette stuff is fantastic, but having options is nice too. Also, when C4 and C5 parts become dated, your not stuck with them and can upgrade to the latest and greatest aftermarket equip which won't date your frame.

[killer69]

http://www.speedtechperformance.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=294/home_id=294/mode=cat/cat294.htm

Here are about 6 videos of My Nova on the track. placed first on the road course at Run To The Coast. finished 5th at Optima

Yes the upper shock mount is included with the Bare subframe.
spring rate for a BB woulf be 650 ls on the street 450 track 500,

you will have to run a wheel spacer for the Corvette wheels, you can fit a 19 x 10 with a 7" BS (with our control arms and sway bar) on a 69 camaro and i know Iron Works has the same wheel on a 67

yes shipping from Sumas

[TheJDMan]

Now I'm confused on the brakes. I had planned to use Z06 brakes. Can I still use Z06 brakes with the Speedtech high clearance subframe or no? If not what brakes does it accept? Sorry if this is a dumb question but the brake choices are a bit confusing and are giving me headaches trying to understand what works and what doesn't.

[John510]

I have a Speed Tech sub. Quality is awesome. I just wish stainless works made a 1 7/8 or 2" header that would fit the subframe. .... hint hint Blake ....

[ProTour69Bird]

Thats a badass nova.

Awesome, that will make fitting coilovers so much easier than what I had planned.

Have you found what the widest tire you could fit is? For Road racing only, autox has a little sharper curves. 295's are biggest streetable tire with a decent turning radius, correct?

Well I think I know everything I wanted to know. Reviews from others are assuring. This sounds exactly like the subframe I need. Thank you blake, for helping answer my Q's.

I'm more than half saved up for this right now, hope I can get it before summer. Even though theres no chance in hell it'll be driving, plan to get it on the GROUND over summer. eeek.

[LM7_67]

how's header fitment? will headers designed for a stock subframe fit? or is it strictly the SW headers?

[killer69]

Now I'm confused on the brakes. I had planned to use Z06 brakes. Can I still use Z06 brakes with the Speedtech high clearance subframe or no? If not what brakes does it accept? Sorry if this is a dumb question but the brake choices are a bit confusing and are giving me headaches trying to understand what works and what doesn't.

There are a couple options, you can use the Z06 brakes either on the stock spindle (with an adaptor we have that also) OR on the AFX spindle (just bolt them on)

[killer69]

I have a Speed Tech sub. Quality is awesome. I just wish stainless works made a 1 7/8 or 2" header that would fit the subframe. .... hint hint Blake ....

we have been talking to Stainless works about this ........................ your using a LS?

[killer69]

Thats a badass nova.

Awesome, that will make fitting coilovers so much easier than what I had planned.

Have you found what the widest tire you could fit is? For Road racing only, autox has a little sharper curves. 295's are biggest streetable tire with a decent turning radius, correct?

Well I think I know everything I wanted to know. Reviews from others are assuring. This sounds exactly like the subframe I need. Thank you blake, for helping answer my Q's.


I'm more than half saved up for this right now, hope I can get it before summer. Even though theres no chance in hell it'll be driving, plan to get it on the GROUND over summer. eeek.


295 will fit but it is tight, i would opt for a 285 or 275 ( all depending on your ride height as well)

[killer69]

how's header fitment? will headers designed for a stock subframe fit? or is it strictly the SW headers?

we have tried a couple different brands, and all the ones we tried needed the 3 joint shaft and some even with that needed a tube changed, THE BEST fit and option is th e stainless works headers. they let you use a 2 joint steering shaft and also give the most ground clearance, we designed them to sit as high in the sub as is possible unlike ALL the headers we tried which were designed prior to lowering springs!!! our BB headers sit 1.8" higher than the hooker super comp headers. small block headers are only 14 below the frame rail

[dj3]

The ls headers drop right in from the top with the Speedtech subframe. Coming from a Big block with supercomp headers to a drop right in was very nice.

[rob07002]

The Stainless Works headers designed for this sub fit great and to Blake's point, they have great ground clearance. 540 BBC with 2" primaries.

Blake, while your on this thread, I want to dial-in a better alignment on the Camaro. What specs do you reccomend?

[killer69]

Rob where do you have the alignment set now?

[rob07002]

I'll check my notes and get back to you. Thanks

[John510]

we have been talking to Stainless works about this ........................ your using a LS?

Yes LS3


how's header fitment? will headers designed for a stock subframe fit? or is it strictly the SW headers?

Your stuck using SW 1 3/4 as my post said. No other options

[LM7_67]

we have tried a couple different brands, and all the ones we tried needed the 3 joint shaft and some even with that needed a tube changed, THE BEST fit and option is th e stainless works headers. they let you use a 2 joint steering shaft and also give the most ground clearance, we designed them to sit as high in the sub as is possible unlike ALL the headers we tried which were designed prior to lowering springs!!! our BB headers sit 1.8" higher than the hooker super comp headers. small block headers are only 14 below the frame rail

Hm, I have the 1 7/8" ARH LS headers in my stock sub and the fit and ground clearance are fantastic. Thinking about your subframe, but I would love to be able to keep using these headers.

[killer69]

All i can tell you is that you "MAY" have to modify the #1 cylinder tube to fit the steering column. i would suggest making the changes to the headers to run a 2 joint steering shaft rather than using the 3 joint shaft and keeping your headers.

[rob07002]

Rob where do you have the alignment set now?

I pretty much went with the Unisteer specs.

Toe: 1/16"
Camber: 1/4 degree positive
Caster: 1.5 degree positive

[killer69]

I pretty much went with the Unisteer specs.

Toe: 1/16"
Camber: 1/4 degree positive
Caster: 1.5 degree positive

for an agressive street, mild autoX setting try
toe is probably ok
Camber -3/4
caster +4.5 -5
that will be better.

MAKE SURE THE GUY DOING THE ALIGNMENT KONOW WHAT HE IS DOING!!!!
seems most guys that use the fancy machines have no real idea what they are even doing,
They punch in the car and the machine can only tell them what the factory setting is.............. like your specs that look pretty close to factory.

if you can find a race shop espesially a road raceshop that will do the alignment

[TheJDMan]

Blake,
Does the complete subframe include spindles? I was reading the product page and it does not specifically say.

[killer69]

No it does not include spindles, we can get you new ones if you want, but if your not going to go with the AFX spindle then we suggest you reuse your existing spindles.

[TBART70]

I pretty much went with the Unisteer specs.

Toe: 1/16"
Camber: 1/4 degree positive
Caster: 1.5 degree positive

Where in NJ are you. I align these things all the time

[CamaroAJ]

No it does not include spindles, we can get you new ones if you want, but if your not going to go with the AFX spindle then we suggest you reuse your existing spindles.

that explains why when i bought the speed tech sub frame from jegs it came with their brand spindles.

[TBART70]

that explains why when i bought the speed tech sub frame from jegs it came with their brand spindles.
was it cheaper in Jegs

[killer67]

Shipping is cheaper

[CamaroAJ]

was it cheaper in Jegs

jegs had it mispriced so it was below their cost. so i bought it since it was in stock. also i live 4 miles from one of their stores so i didn't have to pay shipping.

[TBART70]

jegs had it mispriced so it was below their cost. so i bought it since it was in stock. also i live 4 miles from one of their stores so i didn't have to pay shipping.
cool

[killer69]

jegs had it mispriced so it was below their cost. so i bought it since it was in stock. also i live 4 miles from one of their stores so i didn't have to pay shipping.

i Remember that You Really Scored!!!
but i had no idea they were selling it With spindles????
good deal then.
we are currently working with a shipping company to try and reduce the shipping cost.... we will see how that goes, right now i think we are about one of the most rrasonable on shipping??

[CamaroAJ]

it was a good deal since they were disk brake spindles that i need to sell since i ordered the tall ATS spindles from you.

they only thing jegs doesn't give you the option of is motor mounts. it comes with small block mounts only and it also doesn't come with sway bar end links.

[killer69]

Actually NOW when you order from Jegs you will get both LS and SB/BB motor mounts it was to hard for them to manage the multiple options. also the sway bar end links come in the subframe hardware package. they used to be included in the lower control arms.

So it sounds like your all set up!!

[CamaroAJ]

i couldn't use the motor mounts anyway since i moved the engine back 7". once i get far enough in the build i'll have to call and order a set of end links from you guys since i didn't get them from jegs.

[rob07002]

for an agressive street, mild autoX setting try
toe is probably ok
Camber -3/4
caster +4.5 -5
that will be better.

MAKE SURE THE GUY DOING THE ALIGNMENT KONOW WHAT HE IS DOING!!!!
seems most guys that use the fancy machines have no real idea what they are even doing,
They punch in the car and the machine can only tell them what the factory setting is.............. like your specs that look pretty close to factory.

if you can find a race shop espesially a road raceshop that will do the alignment

Thanks Blake. I'll give this a try.

[rob07002]

Where in NJ are you. I align these things all the time

I'm in Old Bridge

[TBART70]

I'm up north. sorry