My AFR head warranty options.........what to do?

[61ragtop]

Well I have had some coolant issues with my motor since I built it and to make a long stry short the castings on my AFR heads were porous. They were bought in 2006 with a 90 day warranty when I was collecting parts for my build, but only have been run for 3 summers or so as a hobby car.

After contacting them they said to ship them to them and they would look at them and see what they can do possibly grandfather me into the new lifetime warranty if they were at fault and there was no sign of abuse.


AFR called me today and they are willing to either replace them with new old style castings they have left over for free with no future warranty, or step up to the new eliminator heads for $500.00 with a full lifetime warranty and mill them to bump the compression from 9.7 to a 10:1 for an extra $100. And either way cover the return shipping.

So now i have to decide what way to go, leaning toward the eliminators though as he estimates 40-60 more HP and TQ on my motor as well as the warranty.

Thoughts?

[Pro Stock]

I would go with the Eliminators, new old castings are still a gamble for leakage and the extra HP will be nice. How bad did the old heads leak and where were they leaking?, maybe they would also return the old heads to you and they could be repaired.

Dale

[61ragtop]

The area I know of was on the inside of where the fire ring of the head gasket is on one cyl. They leaked pretty bad. I agree on the old casting theory! My engine guy says he doesn't think they are repairable as it is leaking through a 3/4 deck. And AFR said they will fix them if possible, given they are not wanting to now that they have seen them I would guess they are not worth fixing.

[ArtosDracon]

I would probably bump to the eiliminators and get them milled. If you're asking then you probably have the scratch to do it, so do it. :)

[Tiger]

I'd go with the eliminators without hesitating.

[ironcampig]

Why should you pay for something that was design bad, you think you payed top dollar for quality! what im trying say is doesnt AFR stand bye there work? I think the right thing to do would be new eliminators heads plus life time warranty with no additional cost

[Ron.in.SoCal]

^ Ironman, I don't entirely argee. These are heads from 06 and they are willing to replace them for free....four years later. That sounds like standing behind their work. You are right about your suggestion being the right thing to do but it's their nickel, their business.

If it was me, I'd lay down the 600 and get the 40 - 60 extra hp. $10 per hp is a pretty good deal compared to some upgrades....

[hifi875]

i agree w/^. those are 5 year old heads reguardless of use. AFR sounds like a stand up company to make you that kind of offer. They are under no obligation to do anything. just my 2cents.

[Pro Stock]

The area I know of was on the inside of where the fire ring of the head gasket is on one cyl. They leaked pretty bad. I agree on the old casting theory! My engine guy says he doesn't think they are repairable as it is leaking through a 3/4 deck. And AFR said they will fix them if possible, given they are not wanting to now that they have seen them I would guess they are not worth fixing.

Like i said, see if they wiil kick in the old heads, I'll give you a couple hundred for them and you can recoup some of your money.

Dale

[EFI69Cam]

Nice to hear about AFR standing behind their product.

I hope I don't have similar issue with my AFR BBC heads.

[61ragtop]

^ Ironman, I don't entirely argee. These are heads from 06 and they are willing to replace them for free....four years later. That sounds like standing behind their work. You are right about your suggestion being the right thing to do but it's their nickel, their business.

If it was me, I'd lay down the 600 and get the 40 - 60 extra hp. $10 per hp is a pretty good deal compared to some upgrades....

They are claiming 40-60 up and tq with out the bump in compression. Is it worth the $$ to go up from 9.7 to 10:1 in compression?

[ArtosDracon]

for $100, yeah, I would have them go higher. since they're aluminum heads, if you don't mind runing premium fuel, you could likely squeek out 11:1, 10.5 is very safe.

[ironcampig]

well with that being said im GLAD I BOUGHT RHS HEADS! good solid castings not porous junk

[Ranaexcavating]

I would go with the new Eliminators without question.

It's nice to see a business stand behind their product even after 4-5 years.

[Ranaexcavating]

well with that being said im GLAD I BOUGHT RHS HEADS! good solid castings not porous junk

There is no need for that. AFR is a quality company as shown by their response to replace the heads after 4 years. Hope RHS would do the same for you if needed.

[68Formula]

I doubt you'll see much difference between 9.7 and 10.1. Heck you might even make that up with the headgasket, depending on your current headgasket compressed thickness now and your total quench distance available. If you have to change heads anyways, now is the time to ensure you have a good quench distance.

Note, if you leave it at 9.7:1 you should have no problem handling 87 octane. (Assuming your A/F ratios are correct and you haven't advanced the timing far beyond what is needed for MBT.)

[paul67]

I would go with there offer of the Eliminator heads I think your lucky they made an offer after so many yrs and in this climate,+ the extra BHP and life time waranty.

[61ragtop]

Well I made the decision and went to the Eliminators milled to 72cc chambers putting me at about 10.2:1 compression ratio with a 230* intake and 236* exhaust at .050 for my cam. There was a chance they said just the head change will need different pushrods so i figured why not bump it up a little?

[61ragtop]

Why should you pay for something that was design bad, you think you payed top dollar for quality! what im trying say is doesnt AFR stand bye there work? I think the right thing to do would be new eliminators heads plus life time warranty with no additional cost


well with that being said im GLAD I BOUGHT RHS HEADS! good solid castings not porous junk


5 years later on a 90 day warranty I think they are standing behind their product quite well! It was not a bad design just bad luck getting a casting with a bad pour, S@#t happens nobody is perfect and they were willing to correct the issue.

I dont know many people or companies willing to warranty something that is not in warranty, especially in hard times. In fact all i was looking for was a deal not full coverage when I contacted them. So to get an offer to upgrade on the heads valued at just over $1500 for $500 or the same ones I had for free, and being covered for my shipping I am quite happy to give them my $$$ again if that is how I will be treated in the future.

Many companies could have easily said sorry we don't warranty anything that old being that they only have a 90 day warranty. They were more than willing to help me out in the situation rather than shrug me off.

Not saying that you will ever need it but With the one year warranty on RHS heads I hope that if there ever is an issue with them 4-5 years from now you are treated with the same customer service i received.

[MonzaRacer]

well with that being said im GLAD I BOUGHT RHS HEADS! good solid castings not porous junk

Hold on ,hold on.
I agree thats uncalled for. AFR has been in the head business for a long time, RHS just got back into the head business full strength recently. But as for junk or not, better find out where RHS gets their casting done. See AFR heads , last info I had ,were cast in USA, RHS bought an offshore company(not china) to get back into head game big time, also dont forget RHS gave us Competition Cams too. BUT bashing AFR heads after the long time and specific 90day warranty I say thats a standup company.
Let me put it this way, Brodix guaranteed a a 550 hp engine(guy from Brodix told me the heads should make well over 600hp ) with cam/ci/compression I was building,,,end result no mater what we did the engine never went near 500hp,,,,sent them bad,,,,cellophane heat sealed bags never opened,,,,,sent back to us,,,said they were fine.
I had them flowed and the number were no where near the published specs,,,,,guy who flowed them offered to CNC them as him and his son used to do sprint car engines, they hit water well before getting to point of flowing enough air to make 550 or 600hp.
I bit the bullet and located a set of AFRs ,repaired from engine explosion by Indy Cylinder head and those heads made 685 hp,,,same combo and sounded like totally different engine.
OH and as for RHS Ill bet you those heads are made from same recycled aluminum all others are. in last 10 yrs lots of aluminum and steel have been scrapped,,,trouble is that in melting steel rust balls up and can be skimmed off top of molten metal. in aluminum unless something is put in to the molten puddle it will disperse the aluminum oxide(aluminum version of rust) through out the casting. only issue is that aluminum expands more and water will wash the aluminum oxide out,,,rust captured in recycled steel with pit or make pock marks but doesnt met moved by water as bad,,, so never bet on any aluminum cylinder head being perfect even RHS.
Oh and one very good reason for most companies going to longer warranties has been better quality control on the castings/metal purity and the fact that a 5 axis cnc can pop out most heads at 70% form in literally minutes and with minor hand blending and flowing the heads are 100% full port job.
Oh and honestly I have had less issue making power and quality problems from AFR than ANY other head I have used in betterthan 20 years of engine building.

[rjsjea]

i agree w/^. those are 5 year old heads reguardless of use. AFR sounds like a stand up company to make you that kind of offer. They are under no obligation to do anything. just my 2cents.

Agree......I think that is great customer service