Project Apollo 13--My 69 Camaro

[DFRESH]

Since I can't find the original thread, I'll start another one here. I'm really bad at doing updates even though I enjoy reading and seeing them on all the other members cars. This takes way too much time to do, and my pictures will show that.

So, the most recent update is the new trans for the car. I've ended up with a Bowler's 400 and a Gear Vendors. Keeping with my theme of doing one improvement at a time, shopping and waiting for the best deal and not having the car down for months on end, I will fill in a bit of that info here. This trans (including the torque converter) has less than a thousand miles on it (street miles), and same for the Gear Vendors. I was able to purchase the entire setup with the electronics for $2,000. The purchase was made from a member here who is local to me, so no shipping. Scott Mock sent me the necessary crossmember for only the cost of shipping after I posted a "Wanted Add" here and on Lat G. Thanks again Scott! The whole process has taken me about 2 weeks working on the car off and on--in my garage on the floor.

I've fought a vibration in the car at speeds over 50 or so--especially as you went past that speed. I had hoped that through the trans swap process I would figure out what the problem was, sure enough as I pulled the old TH350 out, the flywheel is not the correct one for a 400 block SBC---there's no weight on it. Many thanks to the previous installer. So I ordered up the correct one and hope that it will solve that issue--I don't see how it could hurt it now. I just wonder how long the rear main bearing will last after beating it for the last 7,000 miles without the correct flywheel. Here's the new setup.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/ThanksgivingandChristmas2010003-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/ThanksgivingandChristmas2010001-1.jpg

Also, I have a brand new Fab9 rear end housing with back brace already installed. I was in need of a third member for it so I posted up a "Wanted Add" once again here and under Lat G. Once again, a member contacted me with what I consider to be another great deal. A Moser alluminum through bolt case with a detroit locker, billit pinion support all setup by Moser complete with less than a thousand miles on it, for $750. The Fab9 housing was a bit of a fire sale for the guy I purchased from at $400. He was not a member here, but part of a drag racing circle that I belong to out here on West Coast. Here's a couple pics of the third member;

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Lastly, I have a new power plant for the car as well. One of the members here was interested in a full tilt 406 motor I had awaiting transplant into the Camaro. He had a brand new crate LS3 that was going to require even more fab work to get into his already rushed project. A deal was made and I now have the LS3. I will now be in the process of putting the parts together to swap over to the LS platform. Here's a pic of it as well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/ThanksgivingandChristmas2010-1.jpg

So, the plan currently looks like this; get the trans swap completed by end of next week. Run the car as much as possible this next month to refine what I need to and make sure everything works the way it ought to. I'll need to learn how to drive the car again I would imagine for Auto X'ing and Road Course with the new trans setup. If this all works out, then I will try to get the new rear end in the car before the RTTC event, but that may not happen and I won't jeapordize not making the event just to put the new rear end in the car. The original plan was to have it under the car by that time, but the trans deal came up and was too good to pass on and it fit into the master plan. I really need that overdrive, and I like the fact that it's a TH400 since they are what i am used to working on in the race car, and I know it will handle whatever power I will put too it. So, I will most likely run an event with my famous "One Off Baer Self Energizing Rear Drum Brakes", but I will still be there running the event none the less. I'll purchase more "Disc Brake Spray" from Ironworks just before the event.

Doug

[LUACE]

wow... really came up on some deals... cant wait to see the car perform with all the new upgrades! What torque converter are you running? What gears are you planning to run with your new fab9?

[WS6]

Good deals! I hope to take a similar method to building my cars. Used works for me so long as it's still good. Besides, it allows me to have more money for other cars, right?

Good luck with the build. I think you've got a great combo going together.

[Conrad283]

Awesome ... Can't wait to see the transplant

[DFRESH]

wow... really came up on some deals... cant wait to see the car perform with all the new upgrades! What torque converter are you running? What gears are you planning to run with your new fab9?

The converter that went into it today has a stall of approx 1800-2000. This will be perfect for the motor that's in the car now---it's a turd--LOL--i may swap out when the LS motor goes into it for another one based upon the updated power from the LS3--I'm hoping for as close to 550 as I can get with bolt ons. The current 3rd member as setup has a 3.23, or very close to it. I'm also going to leave that in for now and see how it works with the Gear Vendors setup.

The deals are out there, but patience is definetly something i've had to exercise along with checking sale ads frequently and acting quickly on the ones I knew were great deals. Even if I didn't need the part right then, I purchased anyways since I had a plan for the car and knew I would kick myself later for not making the deal. Since the car remains useable, I don't need to make fast purchases and can wait for longer periods of time to make the purchases I want for the amount I can afford to pay. It's definetly a different way to do it compared to lots of the builds here, but I would prefer to do it this way from now on since I really enjoy using the car and there's not much down time doing one mod at a time. I was asked via a couple of PM's which car I am working on---here's a photo of it--this was on the way out to the Camirillo Airport for an Auto Cross event---was a great time.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/LS1techavatar-1.jpg

Doug

[DFRESH]

Good deals! I hope to take a similar method to building my cars. Used works for me so long as it's still good. Besides, it allows me to have more money for other cars, right?

Good luck with the build. I think you've got a great combo going together.

My thoughts exactly---I used to buy everything new and paid full bore---but most recently, with this car, it has been more economical to shop around and or wait if what I am looking for isn't available. I don't have to "Have" anything---but my "Wants" in this hobby get outta had quickly. I have changed my plans on a few things because something better came along for an even better price in some instances--as long as I am able to keep the car running and can accumulate parts on the side as you go along, in a couple years time it's amazing what you can begin to put together. One thing I do plan to get regardless of deal or no deal is the AutoRad setup. Those are amazing and I never want to worry about the motor getting too hot regardless of track days, stop and go traffic, etc. It's one of the things I will buy no matter what it costs. Also, talking to people like Roger at Ironworks, Todd who owns Payback, Cris at JCG, Jon at Driverz and Frank at Prodigy--guys who are actually using the cars the way I intend to use mine helps a bunch with purchase plans and what does and doesn't work. This has probably been the most useful in terms of what and what not to use and has saved me from purchasing things twice.

Doug

[WS6]

You're so right about seeing what others have used and how it's worked for them. I can't afford to be a trail blazer in too many areas. I prefer to see different builds and intend to do something odd in terms of a power plant for another car but it'll be a budget build all the same. I've also believe that with a little patience and ingenuity, you can really set your car apart without actually doing anything radical. Your setup is a solid setup with the 400 and GV unit that's not seen often in this build style. To see it in action and working well on an autox or road course would be cool.

For the converter with the LS3, stay in the 2800-3200 range. You'll experience some lag while trying to tool around a parking lot and maybe some surging if you cam it with a tight LSA but it will work wonders when you put your foot into it. It also will be low enough of a stall to not cause problems coming out of corners with excessive flashing. This is the range I recommend to any fourth gen fbody that's a street car. Combined with 3.23s and a street cam that provides a broad power band, I've yet to find anyone that's disappointed in this selection.

[Nessumsar]

Man Doug, you are the deal finder! You have any "Deal Finder Spray" left over? Let me know if you need a hand.

We still on for that "swap" party? :)

[DFRESH]

Almost everything is installed now for the trans and gear vendors--put the switch in and the electronics. Some final clean up with respect to the wire routing and I should be ready in the next day or two. I decided to mount the switch on the console and the electronics under the console. It's very easy to get to the electronics side of it when necessary and this is the cleanest place for it in my car. Since the dash will be changing in the car, it will be one less item to have to remount and rewire when the time comes.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/ThanksgivingandChristmas20100031-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/ThanksgivingandChristmas20100051-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/ThanksgivingandChristmas20100021-1.jpg

Doug

[DFRESH]

Man Doug, you are the deal finder! You have any "Deal Finder Spray" left over? Let me know if you need a hand.

We still on for that "swap" party? :)

I don't think so Jon---I would love to think that I could swap motors by that time---but most likely, it will be Summer of this new year would be my guess---it will be one of the longer projects on the car since I will most likely be cleaning up and detailing the engine compartment during the install and possibly swapping front subframes on the car as well. I hate to say it, but it may be down anywhere from 3 to 6 months during that time. I'll be glad to take you up on the offer of help though--especially when the time comes for scrubbing the grime off of it---

Doug

[LeighP]

Nice set up on the console fitout.

[Nessumsar]

I don't think so Jon---I would love to think that I could swap motors by that time---but most likely, it will be Summer of this new year would be my guess---it will be one of the longer projects on the car since I will most likely be cleaning up and detailing the engine compartment during the install and possibly swapping front subframes on the car as well. I hate to say it, but it may be down anywhere from 3 to 6 months during that time. I'll be glad to take you up on the offer of help though--especially when the time comes for scrubbing the grime off of it---

Doug

Let me know when Doug! I have a gas-powered power washer to make things easy. :)

[jokerswild454]

doug, that's not very nice to have all these upgrades =(

play fair, LOL

[johnny68]

cant wait to see the car at rttc
john

[67zo6Camaro]

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[killer69]

Looks Great good to see the Dr. getting his ass in gear, little pun there.

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Great job fellas!

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[DFRESH]

Looks Great good to see the Dr. getting his ass in gear, little pun there.

Nicely played my friend. It's good to be back and in gear on this thing again. Getting pumped to see the finished project. It will actually sit lower than it did before with more travel of the rear suspension. My first event to run is over the labor day weekend. Will let you know how it goes. Thanks for the shock help---that will be cool once we make the conversion to the new double whammies. Hopefully see you boys for the RTTC out here in March/April.

DFRESH

[DFRESH]

Thanks Brother Ron!!! I went by Brett's shop on Sunday evening as he was finishing up tacking the stuff in place. Looks like we sit about another inch lower than we did previously. It looks smooth and sinister at the same time. Pretty stoked to have it come together like this. Brett is doing a fantastic job of making sure we get full travel and the right clearance. I am getting pumped thinking about running the car over labor day.

D

[DFRESH]

A couple of updates from Brett


So with all the SpeedTech, Speedway, and Baer components in the mock up position, I was able to move the rear suspension around... a little... due to the clearance issues. I tucked the wheels as far up as they would go and compressed them against the wheel wells and the rear end pumpkin started to touch the back seat and trunk floor area. Also the axel tubes were within 1/2" of touching the frame and a few other clearance issues were noted.

It was time to mark all the locations and scribe line in areas that needed additional modification.... which means cutting and some more cutting. Add this to the list for STANCE. :superhack: After marking everything, I decided that there was enough planned cutting and welding going on at the rear of the car that it was a good idea to remove the gas tank. Not only will my sparks be flying everywhere, also the removal of the tank gave me more working room.

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Almost 10 years ago I made this wood cradle to support a basic aftermarket gas tank. It's ended up being one of my favorite low budget tools made. Gas ends up weighing +-7lbs per gallon and add the sloshing around of the fluid and removing or even replacing tanks is a pain. However, with this wood cradle, tank removal is a snap with just a floor jack.

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[DFRESH]

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I took all the interior out of the car; seats, carpet etc. Also I removed all the parts that I just mocked up. With everything out of the way it was time to start cutting.

Typically I use several tools to cut sheet metal and frame related parts on the car. Sometimes, including a portion of this project, I use my plazma cutter if I have a clear shot to cut without damage to the back side. The sparks and flames that shoot out on the back side can cause some nasty damage. I used the plazma to cut the C-notches in the frame. With most everything else it ends up being cut-off wheels. Cut-off wheels come in many different sizes even as small as 1" dia for a Dremal. Yep I use a Dremal all the way up to a 5" dia cut off disc attached to my hand grinder. Also I have several configurations of Air-grinders that accept cut off disc.
Another good tool for removing metal off a car is the typical Sawz-all. Both my cordless and heavy duty plug in one see regular use.

More, more

[DFRESH]

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The first item on the cutting list was to remove the old x-bars that mounted from frame rail to frame rail. These bars were used for the upper rear end links and the upper coilover attachment. Patience was key here because Doug wanted to reuse these bars with the 4 link kit that was removed.

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It took a little extra time and patience to cut the bars tight so I did not remove to much material. The sawz-all got most of this done with a little help from a cut-off wheel.

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With all the old stuff out of the way, I could start my cutting for the clearance modifications. :welder:

FAB 53 Updates

[DFRESH]

More to come

[DFRESH]

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here comes the part that will answer my question if anyone saw something funny in one of the prior pictures (answer coming in a few post...). Doug's car has the ability to drag pipe... Yes its true, dragging pipe is bad for you and you should not promote pipe dragging at anytime.... Especially around small children.

In order to cure doug's addiction to dragging pipe, we have decided to cut some of the floor out and make recessed scallops in the floor. These recessed sections will have a radius similar to a 4" tubing and will allow for his new 3" exhaust pipes to tuck up under the car higher than the frame. Yes this intervention will end doug's 2 1/2" pipe dragging days and now allow for 3" pipe. Acceptable frame dragging will be doug's new approach to life.

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in the above pictures you can see that i started the pipe dragging intervention by using a straight edge to measure and start marking where the new exhaust needed to go. I used the straight edge to locate the lowest part of the frame connectors and measured at least 1/2" up before i started calculating the 3" tubing. Also i ran the straight edge along the frame connectors to help me site the angle of the cuts in the floor so that the scallops would follow the frame line and keep his new exhaust tucked up under the frame and frame connector lines.

fab 53 updates

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[cactuss4]

w0w :) So much skill and "large bronze ones" to just go in there and start cutting and clearancing, knowing that you will be able to bend, massage metal to reinstall better then what was there before. Very nice. So Jealous!

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[Operations]

Amazing work, I enjoy your posts, looking forward to seeing what comes next!