Mij new braking System

[Roadrage David]

Look at that puppy!!. Custom build on aplication No of the shelf stuf..

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img535.imageshack.us/i/ddrfinal2.jpg/)
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[gort69]

I don't get it.

[Bryce]

Nice looking caliper. What is the rotor size?

[Roadrage David]

13 inch in the frond 12.19 in the rear fitting in 16 inch Bogard racing wheels ( if i ever get them lol)..

[Bryce]

David,

Any reason you did not go with a 6 piston?

[Roadrage David]

PSA


Piston Surface Area (PSA)


What do you want? 4 Piston, 6 Piston, 8 Piston, 12 Piston. Whay so many? Is more better? Does the number of pistons make the caliper clamp more on the rotor? Let's clarify piston questions right now. It's simple and without question. Clamping force is line pressure times piston surface area.


In a given location, you cannot put 6 pistons with the same surface area as four pistons. The six pistons will always be smaller in overall surface area. Also, some manufacturers would have you believe that six pistons spread the force more evenly over the back of the pad. However, even if they did gain here, (which they don't), the resultant weaker caliper as a result of placing a piston in the key stress area of the caliper, creates a far weaker caliper.


Use the formula below to calculate your Total Clamping Force (TCF).


CLAMPING FORCE = PISTON SURFACE AREA (ONE SIDE OF ROTOR) x LINE PRESSURE

See the chart below to calculate your Total Clamping Force (TCF) from your caliper.

Diameter of Piston Radius (equals 1/2 diameter)
R2 Piston Surface Area
(radius squared x PI)
0.50000 0.25000 0.06250 0.19635
0.62500 0.31250 0.09766 0.30680
0.68750 0.34375 0.11816 0.37122
0.75000 0.37500 0.14063 0.44179
0.81250 0.40625 0.16504 0.51849
0.87500 0.43750 0.19141 0.60132
0.93750 0.46875 0.21973 0.69029
1.00000 0.50000 0.25000 0.78540
1.06250 0.53125 0.28223 0.88664
1.12500 0.56250 0.31641 0.99402
1.18750 0.59375 0.35254 1.10753
1.25000 0.62500 0.39063 1.22718
1.31250 0.65625 0.43066 1.35297
1.37500 0.68750 0.47266 1.48489
1.43750 0.71875 0.51660 1.62295
1.50000 0.75000 0.56250 1.76714
1.56250 0.78125 0.61035 1.91747
1.62500 0.81250 0.66016 2.07394
1.75000 0.87500 0.76563 2.40528
1.81250 0.90625 0.82129 2.58015
1.87500 0.93750 0.87891 2.76116
1.93750 0.96875 0.93848 2.94831
2.00000 1.00000 1.00000 3.14159
2.12500 1.06250 1.12891 3.54656

[silver69camaro]

Also, some manufacturers would have you believe that six pistons spread the force more evenly over the back of the pad.

I actually thought that was an industry-wide known fact, not some marketing consipiracy. Who's the manufacturer?

[Roadrage David]

http://www.thebrakeman.com/home I so totaly Dig there Filosefy and there aprotch about break systems. check tech page. and go tru these individual pages!!. to me it makes total sense. There F5 caliper in a one to one Dynotest with the brembo 6 piston mono block spankt brembo,s butt. here is clip from Ernest Rocco SCCA road race champion and Time atack champion http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpBPopHUe68 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrTxTRr5Z2E i belive 6 out of the top 10 of the drivers in the road race champion ship drive around with Brakeman brakes..

[Roadrage David]

PS afther a serius discussion about brake systems Savittske Classic and custom( http://www.scandc.com/index.htm ) pointed me out to them some time ago!!!!.
we all know he thusend fool around when it comes to suspention and racing . iven tho hes not selling the stuf he told me to chek them out .
Witch i did , and like i said befor, going tru there company filosefi, it makes total sens!!!! why they only use a 4 piston caliper.

[jtomas801]

When it is time for brakes The Brake Man is where I am going. They make there calipers with the biggest piston area (if needed), I have heard that the pads and rotors last a very long time compared to others, and show virtually no signs of pad taper.

Jon

[Roadrage David]

Finaly a beliver Hhahahahahhaha. yes Ernesto Rocco(chek video above) only used 2 sets of rotors in 10 years time. up frond and the rear hasend come of yet. Also 10 years with the same calipers...Brakeman brakes build a compact system with incredibel torqu out put, also in my set up no cross drilled ore slouchted rotors. Just sanding with 80 grit afther a couple of races wil clear the glasing..
cant belive people dont pick up on this, and not seing this brand of super brakes mentiond on this forum..

[jtomas801]

Finally, lol. What car and suspension set up are you running?

I in the middle of building a 69 Javelin with c6 subframe Scott Mock built for me and a 3 link with a floater in the rear. I will also be going with non slotted/drilled rotors. Currently on the rear I have a set of wilwood 4 piston forged superlites with the 12.19x 1.25 GT slotted rotor, as soon as the rotor and pads go I will swap them with the brakeman's rotors and pads. Whats nice is when ever I want to get rid of the superlites I can buy a set of the F3 calipers and they will bolt on to my current brackets.

Jon

[Roadrage David]

Jon car is a 68 firebird heavely custom build 27x16x13 tire rim combo in the rear 25x16x11 in the front.
Modified BMR torque arm suspention Afco Elite coil over shocks Frond and rear.
Il get the F4 Tornado Calipers alround!!! with 13 and 12.19 inch rotors. car wil be 3 to 3 1/2 inches of the ground..
Custom brakets where made bij them to fit the ATS afx Tall spindels .
Have speed tech arms but going to replace the uppers with SPC arms.
Drove around with the SSBC Force 10 calipers for 4000 miles. and they are ok for the streets and a 30 min track run.
They where good, but pads wore out not evenly.
Sins i was stepping up in performance and was going to runn a smaller rim Savittske Classic and custom pointed me out to them .
And as you know you wil not find more info on brakes anywhere els but on there site.. and as said eurlier i cant belive i havend seen people here useing them its always Wilwood/ ssbc/ bear .

A frind of mine who hase about 8 race cars and a race team including 2 Ferraris/1 pratt and miller corvette(le mans),4 Omega V8 stars,1 Mosler ecetera. are running these big 6 piston AP racing brakes. I was stunned wat kind of drag these brakes have!! the rotors dont run free !!!. il bet they loose 10 hp on every wheel on EVERY CAR.. The 14 inch rotors are replaced every couple of races ""they are CRACKT"".
Here is where Brake man brakes shine and have there patern.s work for them.
They last forever and dont drag. and piston clamping and releasing is super fast. and more compackt systems.

[jtomas801]

Are you getting there Storm rotors or the expensive Hurricane rotors?

Thanks,
Jon

[Roadrage David]

Jon im getting The Storm rotors/system. http://www.thebrakeman.com/scca___nasa
The Hurricane Rotors are way overkill, and indeed cost about 1200usd a piece!!.
they are heavy tho as they are made out of Steel
insted of being casted. I do like there cooling aplication tho..

[jtomas801]

Cool, sounds basically like the same kit I will be getting except for a 14" rotor on the front.

Do you have any pictures of your car? It sounds like a really cool project.

Thanks,
Jon

[Roadrage David]

jon end of jan i wil post the first pictures beacuse right nou there is not a lot to show.... thos 14"" are going to look cool in a 17 inch rim

[Roadrage David]

Anybody heard of Hurst/Airheart and JFZ brakes from the past !!??...

[Roadrage David]

Nobody!!!. comon we must have a couple of vintage racers here......

[HarleyR]

I have had the Displeasure of working on JFZ Junk...A friend of mine is building a Watson Roadster thats equipped with Hurst/Airhearts.... they are getting hard to find... Racing brake componets are designed to wear Surface cracks or heat checking are normal..Rule of thumb I go buy.... Brembo and AP Are good enough to win in F1.... NASCAR and pretty much every form of professional motorsports... where brakes matter... cost is no object and there are no limitations on brands.

[Roadrage David]

i askt because on another Forum i was getting wel not some flak, but some sceptisisum from a couple of guys and one of them put these brakes from the past.
these brakes from the past i belive where good enoughf for Nascar and roadracing in those days https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img257.imageshack.us/i/vsebrake1.jpg/)

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img143.imageshack.us/i/vsebrake2.jpg/)

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img715.imageshack.us/i/vsebrake3.jpg/)

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I then came up with some aditional info on the brand i chosen, and it reveald some intresting info consirning the man behind this brake name.
Here is that info i put on there.
texst from This brakeman link http://www.thebrakeman.com/calipers .
This caliper has been tested for over seven years on some of the most demanding cars in the racing industry. Designed by the most experienced racing brake designer in the United States, Warren Gilliland. """"With over 38 years of design experience including Hurst/Airheart and JFZ, no one knows more about what it takes to stop a racecar"""""". Our technical support and complete product line is the best you can buy!

and this link about the presidend of brakeman.. should take some skeptical toughts away i gues .. http://www.thebrakeman.com/about


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most resend post i got..

Hello David,

Line pressure is determined by the input force of the pedal, times the multiplication ratio of the pedal, times the bore area of the master. It is generally measured either at the calipers with a gauge or by pressure transducers in line.
The most recent test is still confidential at the team's request, but it was against the Alcon $20,000 system.
A past test we can talk about was for Morgan McClure racing when the Car of Tomorrow was being developed. Our brake package and the resulting chassis setup to take advantage of our brakes reduced lap times by 3 seconds at Virginia International Raceway, a road course.
The oldest test data is from 2004, when an independent NASCAR facility dyno tested our F5 against the state of the art Monobloc. The results are displayed in a simple format. Our caliper had more torque, more consistent output, lower temperature, and cleaner release.

Most of the current 6 piston calipers are so large that the F5 is still lighter or at worst the same weight as all current competitors. The reduced pad wear and .980" or 1.10" pads reduce or eliminate brake pad changes, and the quick change design means the caliper does not need to be removed for pad service.

Patented Hurricane rotors are proven to lower operating temperatures by several hundred degrees, but we also have traditional vented rotors for teams wishing to use a standard design or avoid the expense of dedicated Hurricane production for their team.





Best regards,
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[Roadrage David]

Test fitting the brake system in the 16 inch mock up bogard LS6 Road Racing wheel.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/bogartclearance2.jpg/)

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img59.imageshack.us/i/bogartclearance3.jpg/)

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img254.imageshack.us/i/bogartclearance.jpg/)

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David,
I got a wheel from Bogart today, and it clears by a mile.
-Overall clearance is good
-Offset [caliper face to spoke] clearance is great
-Rotor diameter to wheel diameter is good, so it should maintain good airflow off the rotor, especially if you go to ducting for racing use.

I told Rich we are good to go. Credit has to go to him, this is the only non-NASCAR road racing wheel that I've seen clear an F4/ 13" setup. It is also so light that I almost hit myself in the face with it pulling it out of the box. Very nice piece and very well done.

Let me know what you want to do with shipping. I can send the fronts mounted to the spindles and all the rear parts except the brackets. Or I can wait for the brackets to finish [should be soon, I gave them the final dimension last week] and ship everything together. Either way is fine with me, all together will be cheaper. Let me know the proper ship to address as well.



Best regards,

Cory Lamarra

The Brake Man, Inc.
838 Calle Plano
Camarillo, Ca. 93012
805-987-STOP (7867)
[email protected]
www.TheBrakeMan.com