"Support the troops" and other such empty BS

[Damn True]

Just got back from volunteering up at the VA in Palo Alto. I noticed something as I walked across the lot to my car.

Not a single one of these in sight

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I guess the people that work for the VA figure that ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING makes an asinine sticker somewhat superfluous. Today was December 7th. One of the guys I spoke with today asked me why nobody seems to remember any longer. I didn't have an answer for him. But I did see 3-4 yellow ribbons on cars once I left the VA.

I think I'm going to have a bunch of these made up and start slapping them over peoples BS yellow, pink and whatever ribbon they choose to display to let you know they "care" w/o having to do anything genuinely icky.

42830

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[796spdbu]

I have several friends who have been in and out of iraq in war time,several others still stationed here stateside. They too have mixed emotions over these ribbons. At 33 im thinking about going into the military as it seems to wiegh heavy on my mind.I pray for our troops every day and try to help in every way I can.

[mellowyellowCJ7]

True,
It is interesting for me to read your point of view. As you know, I'm not a veteran, so I can't relate. I see these ribbons as tit-for-tat to the anti war stickers in the bay area. I've always thought bumper stickers were sort of silly. I'd like a sticker that says, "I don't look at bumpers for inspiration" :)
I think if you put the empty gesture sticker on a car, they will think an anti-war person put it on their car to discourage them, so maybe a sticker that says…”and volunteer at the VA”, because it never dawned on me to volunteer there. I didn’t know they needed volunteers.
At least you have a target of audience of people that mean well, but don’t realize that they are not doing much to help.
Heck, you could make a little flier that says you noticed the sticker and if they’d really like to support the troops in a tangible way, please call this number to see how you can volunteer at the VA.
p.s. let’s have lunch so you can tell me about the 25hrs at T-Hill.

[mc84_zz4]

I have had 5 stolen from my cars, and relatives cars.
Street urchins either liked the magnet, or they threw it away instead of keying my truck.
I'm going to order some more.
I send care packages often, and almost all of the people I know either are involved, or ones I talk to about it volunteer time or goodies for a package (even my dentist).

[Rod]

My son came back from Iraq and then went to Afghanistan for another year and just got back to San Diego so we went to the beach to get some surfing in and a couple of yougens (about 16+) started giving us sh*t, calling us jar heads, killers, we should be locked up, all we did is ignore them and loaded up the boards back in the jeep to leave and as we had our backs to them loading up, one of them stepped forward and even threw a punch at my son and they ran away calling us pu**ies, that's the respect I have seen, nobody cares or remembers were still over there

[Jim Nilsen]

I think you are right that some people don't have any respect for soldiers and I blame our polititions for that and the media that feeds the eyes and ears with thoughts and images of what someone portrays the issues as they see it and it has warped the reasons the soldiers are fighting for and how they are told to fight. I have seen the strongest military in the world, capable of doing what has to be done many times only to be left with nothing from our polititions because ofthe foriegn policies they bargain for.

The soldiers don't get the respect they deserve before and after they do their service when they are sent to do something that is questionable at best for being right by some people for many reasons that are conflicting at times. I feel for the soldiers that may be confused about who and what they are fight for and being told to do. It has to be hard to follow orders at times these days but they all do it and it is not pretty what happens.

I think that having as many different view points about this from both those who serve,served or watched as loved ones have come and gone from these wars, and what we all see is a bit different because of all of the localized types of propaganda we get subjected to and what it has done to friends and families. We are all trying to make sense out of most of it the best we can and it seems that it is all not the way we used to think it was, maybe it never was what we believed it to all be but it seemed like their was something collective about the whole country coming together that isn't happening these days.

I see what your saying and it can go a lot deeper as to how bad it looks to some as to who they are fighting with and why they are there.

God Bless all soldiers and may they all come home safe and in one piece.

[Tony_SS]

Symbols are for the symbol minded anyway.. but folks will still make assumptions and judge.

[clancj]

military spending is one of the few tax contributions i actually enjoy paying. With a widespread lack of ambition and and an entitlement attitude, our youth would do themselves well to join the military. however, its much easier to get student loans and grants and move them to the 13th grade, but does absoultly nothing for their laziness and poor work ethic.

i look around and get really worried about the future.

[sr73bu]

military spending is one of the few tax contributions i actually enjoy paying. With a widespread lack of ambition and and an entitlement attitude, our youth would do themselves well to join the military. however, its much easier to get student loans and grants and move them to the 13th grade, but does absoultly nothing for their laziness and poor work ethic.

i look around and get really worried about the future.

Couldn't agree more....

Not to pick on you Mathius, but some of your statements need fact checks... The military is not desperate in any branch (maybe Coast Guard)... 2 years ago I tried to join the Marine Corp Reserves and found out just how HARD it was to join. Granted I needed doctors notes to explain screws and plates left behind from a severely broken jaw at 16, but the process up to the bitter end was not "sign and go"... these kids that join are subjected to a number of "do I really want this" checks long before going to recruit training or boot camp. I was an in shape 25 y/o, college grad (3.8 gpa), 110 ASVAB score, high PT scoring, totally committed polee and they said "NO" at the end... believe me they aren't that desperate..

Harrassing Recruiters, Video games, despair for money don't mean crap if you've been through the process...
Getting the balls to actually talk with a recruiter, choosing an MOS, taking the ASVAB, Passing the ASVAB score min for your projected MOS, PT test, Going to MEPS, PT test, Signing the contract at MEPS, Swearing in.. actually showing up for boot camp departure... No one just signs up and "goes"... Yes things can get misleading, Yes people lie, but the process can be long and each day that goes by, each test, each doctor note gives you more than enough time to realize if you really want to do it.

The point i'm trying to make is that if think the military men and woman of today sign a paper and get $40,000 for college, your wrong... you have got to be committed... just as committed as or fathers and grandfathers...

[tylers88]

I am only 20 and far from lazy or having a poor work ethic, I work 40-45 hours a week and then work on about 15 hours of GM training a week so I'm knocking down 55-60 hours of work a week. I do understand where you are coming from though it seems that I am in the minority here because most of the kids I graduated with have done absolutly nothing with there lives. Two of my best friends are in the armed forces, one is an Army Airborn Ranger and the other is a Marine Mechanic and neither is re-enlisting because of how there are treated by the government. The crazy one thats in the Airborn was in Haiti and he said that the Haitions where giving them the food back because it was very clear who the hungry ones where. I love history and from my high school classes I seem to remember that everyone changed there feelings about the military with Korea, most have forgotten it happened and Vietnam destroyed any hope for a come back of being "proud" of our military, mostly because of the fighting style, yes had to take the lives of young children and it is sad but when there is a gun aimed at you I don't think it matters who is on the other end. Both of my grandpa's were in the Navy, one in World War II on an aircraft carrier and the other was a Seabee in Vietnam, my dad was in communications during the first conflict with Iraq, but after thinking about it for 4 years I decided not to join but it was not because I was lazy or had a poor work ethic, it was because after we caught Sadam I really started to think of why we were still there and I could not come up with a valid reason. I do not support the war in Iraq any more, Afgan we need to just turn into a parking lot so we can bring the troops home because through it all I do still support them. I think that recruter try and get so many in is so that they can pick the best to fight for what ever it is we are fighting for anymore, not because they are desperate but so that it doesnt come to that

[sr73bu]

I am only 20 and clancj I am far from lazy or having a poor work ethic, I work 40-45 hours a week and then work on about 15 hours of GM training a week so I'm knocking down 55-60 hours of work a week. I do understand where you are coming from though it seems that I am in the minority here because most of the kids I graduated with have done absolutly nothing with there lives. Two of my best friends are in the armed forces, one is an Army Airborn Ranger and the other is a Marine Mechanic and neither is re-enlisting because of how there are treated my the government. I love history and from my high school classes I seem to remember that everyone changed there feelings about the military with Korea, most have forgotten it happened and Vietnam destroyed any hope for a come back of being "proud" of our military. Both of my grandpa's were in the Navy, one in World War II on an aircraft carrier and the other was a Seabee in Vietnam, my dad was in communications during the first conflict with Iraq, but after thinking about it for 4 years I decided not to join but it was not because I was lazy or had a poor work ethic, it was because after we caught Sadam I really started to think of why we were still there and I could not come up with a valid reason. I do not support the war in Iraq any more, Afgan we need to just turn into a parking lot so we can bring the troops home because through it all I do still support them.

I wouldn't take what Clancj said personally, you're already rated higher in my book because you are interested in building a real car... not one in a video game... You do understand that your peers (and mine) as a majority are more concerned with what version Iphone they have and how cool they look texting while driving than soldiers in Afganistan... this my friend is scary. Don't get me wrong there are still some good kids out there... these are the ones that challenge what College professors/the media feeds them... do that tylers88, and you'll be just fine...

-Sean

[Damn True]

Every single branch of the service met and exceeded their 2009 officer and enlisted recruitment quotas. They will do so again in 2010. I don't recall which two, but as I recall two of them exceeded those quota's by nearly 10%.

The enlisted ranks of the US military have more members with college degrees than at any time in US history. The officer ranks have more members with post-graduate degrees than at any time in US history. That includes periods when we have had a draft in place. We have the most educated military in the world.

Anyone who tries to tell you that the military is a catch-all for Americas "down and out underprivileged [fill in your charity case of choice here]" likely hasn't served, likely wouldn't have the stones to do so anyway and certainly hasn't enough respect for those who are on a daily basis earning their freedom to be an a-hole to find out what military service is really like and what those engaged in it are all about.

[Damn True]

True,
It is interesting for me to read your point of view. As you know, I'm not a veteran, so I can't relate. I see these ribbons as tit-for-tat to the anti war stickers in the bay area. I've always thought bumper stickers were sort of silly. I'd like a sticker that says, "I don't look at bumpers for inspiration" :)
I think if you put the empty gesture sticker on a car, they will think an anti-war person put it on their car to discourage them, so maybe a sticker that says…”and volunteer at the VA”, because it never dawned on me to volunteer there. I didn’t know they needed volunteers.
At least you have a target of audience of people that mean well, but don’t realize that they are not doing much to help.
Heck, you could make a little flier that says you noticed the sticker and if they’d really like to support the troops in a tangible way, please call this number to see how you can volunteer at the VA.
p.s. let’s have lunch so you can tell me about the 25hrs at T-Hill.

That right there is a genius idea. I'm going to be back out at the VA tomorrow. I'll ask what number I ought to use.

[Vegas69]

It's impossible that some red blooded Americans still have pride in their country and want to serve. Kelli's brother is a prime example. Graduated from highschool with a 4.0 and was the validictorian. He joined the Marines. Do you really think he had no other viable options?

I couldn't agree more with the entitlement comment. As far as I'm concerned, this country and it's citizens are way to lenient. If you are motivated to succeed, you will. The real problem is everybody wants it served on a silver platter. That's only natural when you come from high times. It's not going anywhere near there anytime soon, if ever. If a politician could actually look you in the eyes and tell the truth and get elected, we'd all be better off.

That's all for tonight.... ha ha

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

man.. do yall really CARE?

you know regular people out there dont.. why care about those idiots with the ribbons?
you realize people like that are the MAJORITY we live in... simple minded?..


Armchair patriots?

really tho.. I personally dont give a **** about them.. i like cars.

dont worry yourself True.. there are others like you.. youre not alone in the slightest..

and a "piss you off you fakes" sticker isnt going to make them walk in the VA.. hell a turn signal on the highway wont even get you into the lane!

[ArtosDracon]

man.. do yall really CARE?

you know regular people out there dont.. why care about those idiots with the ribbons?
you realize people like that are the MAJORITY we live in... simple minded?..


Armchair patriots?

really tho.. I personally dont give a **** about them.. i like cars.

dont worry yourself True.. there are others like you.. youre not alone in the slightest..

and a "piss you off you fakes" sticker isnt going to make them walk in the VA.. hell a turn signal on the highway wont even get you into the lane!

+1 Truest statement in the thread so far IMHO.

[JJEH]

My wife is in the Military and we also have some friends who serve the Military.

And YES, we CARE about Soldiers in combat zones!

To me, war is stupid but sometimes there is no other choice...

By the way - we don't have bumper stickers on our cars...

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

im not talking about the soldiers and if you care or not.. we know there are a few out there that care more than most..

but what im saying is that... "you know they dont care so why give a **** about them?"

youd be better off not thinking about em.. or if you really want to make an impact.. go and punch em in the gut.. then tell them how you feel.

[JJEH]

Alright... my bad...

Most Germans don't like the German Military. They think only losers can join the Military.
Army is for stupid people, Air Force for lazy bi*ches and the whole Navy is gay...

So Germany and America have something together... People who understand nothing.

But why wasting time to talk about these people... you cannot change their mind...

[T_Raven]

I support the troops, aww how cute are we? lol
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

You know True, I know things in text can be taken out of context but I always get the feeling you have a real "high and mighty" attitude. Maybe lighten up a little buddy.

I was never in the military, but I spent 4 years in Iraq as a civilian mechanic so I know plenty about the military, what goes on in Iraq, how the public treats soldiers and how soldiers feel about it.

You're all bent out of shape about the lame ribbon stickers but other than volunteering at the VA, which like others have said, most people don't know they can, what do you expect people to do? Sending packages is nice and all but honestly from what I've seen most soldiers don't need or want the stuff that gets sent and it ends up in the trash, and you can get anything you want or need either on base or in about a week in the mail. Most are too busy to worry whether or not people are doing things to show support. And most are humble enough they don't want to be praised everytime someone finds out they are military.

You didn't like what Mathius said, but I know where he's coming from, not that I agree it's totally true. What does it matter if he served or not? Did you?

I've met a lot of hard working and intelligent soldiers. Some of which are the types of leaders and people that I would want to be like if I were in, and make me proud of our military. I've met some lazy ones too that just want to skate by and get a pay check and are always causing problems. And leaders who use their position to feed their ego and have no respect for the soldiers they should be guiding and teaching. The biggest problems I saw were with leadership. I have plenty of respect for the individual soldiers who put up with the crap they go through to serve our country, but over all I'm pretty disappointed in the military leadership and how badly they treat soldiers. It seems like almost every unit, no matter how many NCOs have the right attitude and try to take care of their soldiers, there is always a higher ranking NCO or officer making stupid decisions that bring down moral and degrade the troops.

But anyway, more to the original post, most of the people I've met, whether they agree with what we are doing over there or not support and respect the troops. Just being a civilian that was in Iraq, I got plenty of thank yous, a few drinks, and even lunch once. I've never had anyone say anything bad to me, or heard anything said to a soldier. I think all the support the troops stuff is about moral support so they know the few people out there who want to bash the troops don't speak for all of us and that they are appreciated.

[Damn True]

man.. do yall really CARE?

you know regular people out there dont.. why care about those idiots with the ribbons?
you realize people like that are the MAJORITY we live in... simple minded?..


Armchair patriots?

really tho.. I personally dont give a **** about them.. i like cars.

dont worry yourself True.. there are others like you.. youre not alone in the slightest..

and a "piss you off you fakes" sticker isnt going to make them walk in the VA.. hell a turn signal on the highway wont even get you into the lane!

Veng,

You make an excellent point. A little background on where I am coming from on this though.

My wife's father spent the last 6 years of his life at the Palo Alto VA hospital. The malady isn't important, but what is important is the "Armchair Patriots" in his life that abandoned him and his family in his dying years. Because of that, my wife and I volunteer a few times a year up there. Nothing big, we aren't curing cancer up there by any means but it means a lot to the guys who are up there who don't have support systems.

The reason I was up there the other day was to get ready for an event we put on every year with some friends of ours. We put on a Christmas party each year for the 4 different mental health wards. These guys are truly "the forgotten". When channel 7 news wants to do a Veterans Day story on combat Vet's they go to the prosthetic labs where they can get great images of some poor kid with a limb or two that has been blown off. Makes for better television than a guy who watched a buddy get something blown off and now, due to PTSD can't cope with society. Or a guy who's brain is no longer functioning normally due to Agent Orange or the chem-warfare agents Hussein used against them in the first Gulf War, least of all, the guys with chemical dependence problems due to being addicted to pain medications, or other "self-medicating" agents when their pain meds were denied.

Anyway, we take donations from some friends, with which we buy all the guys and gals sweatshirts to wear in the wards (they keep things pretty chilly) and we've bought televisions, stereo's, books, magazine subscriptions and such as well to hopefully make their stay there a little more comfortable. We bring a bunch of cookies and pies and we had an a capella group that would come and do some Christmas songs and sing the Service Hymn Medley. Well, this year, as you might imagine donations are down, to top that off, two members of the a capella group passed away this year.

To make up for the shortfall I walked around our neighborhood, to people we know, those who routinely display a flag on their home, those with those infernally pointless ribbons on their cars. I asked them for a small contribution to the fund to help offset some of the cost or to chip in and bake something or come along. Every last one said no. With over two months advance notice I also approached an acquaintance of ours who is a musician. A person with the flags, the ribbons and the type of guy who fills your email inbox with all the BS fwd'd emails with stories about this Vet or that who did or said something about one thing or another. A guy who vociferously claims to "support the troops" turned us down. He said it was because it was too far away (23mi) and because he didn't know the music.....Ive watched him listen to a new song and pick it up by ear in less than 10min.

The point is that when faced with the prospect of ACTUALLY doing something substantive to ACTUALLY help someone who needs it people cave. They throw up their flags and asinine, pointless ribbons that make THEM feel good, or more likely that they think make YOU think they care more than you, but when it comes to doing something to help someone else rather than alter someone else's opinion of them they fold up like a wet dishrag.

Too hard, too icky, too uncomfortable.

[69stang]

I've met a lot of hard working and intelligent soldiers. Some of which are the types of leaders and people that I would want to be like if I were in, and make me proud of our military. I've met some lazy ones too that just want to skate by and get a pay check and are always causing problems. And leaders who use their position to feed their ego and have no respect for the soldiers they should be guiding and teaching. The biggest problems I saw were with leadership. I have plenty of respect for the individual soldiers who put up with the crap they go through to serve our country, but over all I'm pretty disappointed in the military leadership and how badly they treat soldiers. It seems like almost every unit, no matter how many NCOs have the right attitude and try to take care of their soldiers, there is always a higher ranking NCO or officer making stupid decisions that bring down moral and degrade the troops.

Ain't that the truth!


Sending packages is nice and all but honestly from what I've seen most soldiers don't need or want the stuff that gets sent and it ends up in the trash, and you can get anything you want or need either on base or in about a week in the mail. Most are too busy to worry whether or not people are doing things to show support. And most are humble enough they don't want to be praised everytime someone finds out they are military.

My son has said the same thing about getting packages and says they are appreciated but not really needed. He deploys again late winter/early spring.

I would suggest the best way to support the troops is by putting the right people in charge on the civilian side of things. The people that make policy.

[sr73bu]

Veng,

You make an excellent point. A little background on where I am coming from on this though.

My wife's father spent the last 6 years of his life at the Palo Alto VA hospital. The malady isn't important, but what is important is the "Armchair Patriots" in his life that abandoned him and his family in his dying years. Because of that, my wife and I volunteer a few times a year up there. Nothing big, we aren't curing cancer up there by any means but it means a lot to the guys who are up there who don't have support systems.

The reason I was up there the other day was to get ready for an event we put on every year with some friends of ours. We put on a Christmas party each year for the 4 different mental health wards. These guys are truly "the forgotten". When channel 7 news wants to do a Veterans Day story on combat Vet's they go to the prosthetic labs where they can get great images of some poor kid with a limb or two that has been blown off. Makes for better television than a guy who watched a buddy get something blown off and now, due to PTSD can't cope with society. Or a guy who's brain is no longer functioning normally due to Agent Orange or the chem-warfare agents Hussein used against them in the first Gulf War, least of all, the guys with chemical dependence problems due to being addicted to pain medications, or other "self-medicating" agents when their pain meds were denied.

Anyway, we take donations from some friends, with which we buy all the guys and gals sweatshirts to wear in the wards (they keep things pretty chilly) and we've bought televisions, stereo's, books, magazine subscriptions and such as well to hopefully make their stay there a little more comfortable. We bring a bunch of cookies and pies and we had an a capella group that would come and do some Christmas songs and sing the Service Hymn Medley. Well, this year, as you might imagine donations are down, to top that off, two members of the a capella group passed away this year.

To make up for the shortfall I walked around our neighborhood, to people we know, those who routinely display a flag on their home, those with those infernally pointless ribbons on their cars. I asked them for a small contribution to the fund to help offset some of the cost or to chip in and bake something or come along. Every last one said no. With over two months advance notice I also approached an acquaintance of ours who is a musician. A person with the flags, the ribbons and the type of guy who fills your email inbox with all the BS fwd'd emails with stories about this Vet or that who did or said something about one thing or another. A guy who vociferously claims to "support the troops" turned us down. He said it was because it was too far away (23mi) and because he didn't know the music.....Ive watched him listen to a new song and pick it up by ear in less than 10min.

The point is that when faced with the prospect of ACTUALLY doing something substantive to ACTUALLY help someone who needs it people cave. They throw up their flags and asinine, pointless ribbons that make THEM feel good, or more likely that they think make YOU think they care more than you, but when it comes to doing something to help someone else rather than alter someone else's opinion of them they fold up like a wet dishrag.

Too hard, too icky, too uncomfortable.

This is the real message behind your post... I get it, I guess others got worked up over nothing... We all support the troops, this post was about really giving support. Not whether soldiers are slackers or lazy... we find these type of people in all aspects of life... military, office, politics.... To say that generations before didn't have these people is simply untrue... maybe at a lesser magnitude, but untrue.

True, Thanks for really supporting our vets... and others that have as well (I know there are alot of generous people on this forum). My wife's father (Vietnam Vet) passed away last year from cancer... Her family recieved support from a few organizations and its people like you who give what they can that really are impressive.

Maybe your approach brought people up in arms, but I think sometimes we all just vent.

Instead of criticising the soldiers of today... we need to focus on the slobs that tell them what to do and make the policies (most of which never served themselves)

its good to see that people responded to this... whether we all agree, atleast people took interest and care.

[sr73bu]

That's really a horrible analogy. The military is 100% voluntary. The blame rests right at the govt's feet.

Yeah man... aint that the truth...

I think we can all agree that the government has "lowered its standards"... not the military.

"Professional Politicians" in the interest of themselves and re-election, not the greater good (it works for both left and right)- thats the problem.

[obengston]

I have read this thread and agree on some, and some I feel have no clue. I'm currently in the Marine Corps (over 20 years) and enjoy it everyday, because of the one's I'm surrounded by. As far as the younger generation well In my 20 years experience they are just as motivated as I was 20 years ago. As for the one's who only do one tour and decide to move on.. my hat is off to them. A career in the service is not for everyone. Just the same as a regular job in not for everyone. With that said, I was also a recruiter for 4 years, and as far as harassing people, I would say its more educating someone more on what the military really is besides someone assuming they know. We are not hurting for people to join, and the fact is it is actually pretty competitve to get in the Marine Corps. And yes I did recruit my on son (lol). He served 4 years and got out, but today will tell you it was the best thing he has done so far. So I challenge anyone outthere that thinks the quality of Marines we have to come visit me at Camp Lejeune, and I will take you on a tour and let you have your opinion after that. An yes most have a college degree or working on one if anyone wants to know. If they don't it's thier on choice, except it may take a little longer to obtain (deployments/training). I don't hold nothing against anyone who has not served, only the one's who think they know. There is many things I have not done, but I appreciate the one's who are doing the jobs I'm not, thats why we live in such a great nation, and I'm glad to help and give us that opportunity. Okay I'm running at the mouth (finger) enough said. Thanks to everyone

[Jim Nilsen]

military spending is one of the few tax contributions i actually enjoy paying. With a widespread lack of ambition and and an entitlement attitude, our youth would do themselves well to join the military. however, its much easier to get student loans and grants and move them to the 13th grade, but does absoultly nothing for their laziness and poor work ethic.

i look around and get really worried about the future.


The problem I have with military spending is that they can spend 1 million dollars on a soldier per year, yet you look at what they get paid and what their families go though and to me there is no reason part of that million couldn't be better spent on each and every one of them!

[Jim Nilsen]

I have a really good friend who was drafted into the Army and he has the best argument for being in the military and being a slave and it almost cost him a whole lot with his sargeant one day and his big mouth. It is all about perception and your reasons for being where you are and being in the military while fighting an enemy no matter whether it is war or not is definately not a place where most people would want to be.

When you are drafted it is like slavery to some.

now back to the thread in progress.

[sr73bu]

lets not start going "left and right" here... they are all crooks, you and I both know that... Whoever pushed through "this" and started "that" doesn't matter... we can go on all day... And I don't rely on Wiki-anything for any type of info..

Like i just said... "Professional Politicians" in the interest of themselves and re-election, not the greater good (it works for both left and right)- thats the problem.

How about we agree to both talk about cars for now on and move on from here, I can debate all day with people, but thats not why I'm on this forum.... you like cars and so do I, lets just all support the troops... move forward... and bash each others cars, not politics.. what do you say?

[Damn True]

Gentlemen,

Ive removed the content that failed to advance the conversation, including that which I myself posted failing to meet that criteria.



Moving along...

Tonight myself, my wife and 5 of our friends went to the Palo Alto Va hospital and put on a Christmas party for the guys (and gals) in the various mental health wards.

~45 or so in total, though I can't be 100% sure. Not all of them came out of their rooms. Nobody was obliged to participate. Ages ranged from early 70's to 19. Many of the older folks are long term PTSD and or have substance problems. The younger ones often have outside the military psychological problems which are exacerbated by the rigors of military service. Then of course you have the guys exposed to nice stuff like Agent Orange, some of the residual materials in the soil and water in Korea that was deployed by the Chinese and N. Koreans, and the chemweps used by Hussein in the first gulf war.

You have guys who look like they could be serving today just fine. Apparently normal. Able to communicate in a manner appropriate between a young soldier and a civilian. You have guys who are clearly without all their faculties. You have guys who are not far removed from the last dude you saw sleeping under a bridge.

We brought them pie, cookies, magazines and such. One of our friends is a teacher. His students all made cards for the guys and gals. (those can be a little rough on the tear-ducts). Again, we ain't curing cancer here. But we are doing something for some guys who would otherwise be forgotten and I think it means something to them.

The common thread amongst them is that they are all or were members of the United States Armed Forces and at one point handed a blank check to this Nation for a cost to defend it up to and including their life. We owe these guys a lot more than a stupid freaking yellow magnet.

Every day needs to be Veterans Day.

Earlier in this thread someone said that "people don't know how to do more" I get that. It's hard to think of something meaningful.

But if you go to this website http://www2.va.gov/directory/guide/division_flsh.asp?dnum=1 and locate the VA facility website nearest you, you will find a "Volunteer or donate" link on that site. I'm sure someone on the other end of the line can make some suggestions.





What I'd like to do at this point is if you guys have some ideas of meaningful, substantive things people can do please post them here.

Some of the things I've done are:

- Pick up the tab for a Military Member dinning out either themselves or with their family. (I generally ask the server to not inform the member.)
- Pick up the tab at the movie theater for a Military Member in line behind me.
- If I see a Military Member in an airport I will approach them. Shake their hand and thank them.
- If you have a spouse of a deployed Military Member (particularly if they have kids) on your block, just go over and mow the lawn or rake the leaves.

[Damn True]

https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?75282-send-a-card-to-a-soldier

[Damn True]

My son came back from Iraq and then went to Afghanistan...threw a punch at my son and they ran away calling us pu**ies, that's the respect I have seen, nobody cares or remembers were still over there

Rod,

The fact that you kept your cool and that your son behaved the way he did speaks volumes about the kind of young man you've raised. Well done sir.

True

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

i will say this tho.. i do like call out threads... ahhahaha

[DarkBuddha]

First, good for you for volunteering. It matters and you've done a good thing by reminding others to do the same.

Now... I don't put bumper stickers on my cars. Period. IMHO, bumper stickers are a lousy way to measure or determine the level of investment or care people have about anything. All they tell you is that the person might have some feelings about whatever it is that's on the sticker. But the inverse is not necessarily true... not having a bumper sticker doesn't mean they don't care.

I'm the proud son of a veteran, and despite any problems or issues I might have with the United States foreign policy, I support our troops and hope for their well-being and safe return. I respect them for their service and for their professionalism. I recognize they are human, not saints or devils. I remember that they have family and friends that love them... they are someone's son, daughter, brother, cousin, BFF, aunt, nephew, etc. And I'll be thankful when we no longer send our friends, children, heroes, warriors, to kill and to die. Not having a bumper sticker that says all of that doesn't mean I don't care, it just means I don't think having a bumper sticker matters as much as believing it and living it.

[Damn True]

Wyatt.

The last sentence of your post summarizes the whole point here. I am trying to encourage people to do something REAL as opposed to making empty gestures.

[DarkBuddha]

Gotcha! I think for some folks, because of the current socio-political climate, just keeping it in their hearts is doing something real. I've recently had some run-ins on other issues that I think are totally shrapnel from the current socio-political climate, and I'm seriously debating whether it's worth my time and effort to pursue. I honestly believe that even if I was allowed to show the issues at hand, I don't think it would change anything, or anyone's mind. There's a lot of that going around these days... divisiveness over unity, exclusion over inclusion, righteousness over virtuousness, and me & mine over you & yours. But just hearing someone say they get it and are empathetic would be something.

[shmoov69]

We (my dad and I) spend LOTS of money telling people to support, shake hands, salute, buy lunch etc. The soldiers when they see them thru ads on the radio for our roofing company. I mean, about half of the ads just say "this is Jim from Delta Roofing, and........" then spend the other 26 seconds telling how to and why to show support. It's not really advertising, but rather a soapbox so to speak. But I can tell you that we spend a ton of money to do it.

But you can never tell what is in a persons heart just by the "useless gestures" that may appear. That gesture may just be the tip of the iceberg!!

[Damn True]

We (my dad and I) spend LOTS of money telling people to support, shake hands, salute, buy lunch etc. The soldiers when they see them thru ads on the radio for our roofing company. I mean, about half of the ads just say "this is Jim from Delta Roofing, and........" then spend the other 26 seconds telling how to and why to show support. It's not really advertising, but rather a soapbox so to speak. But I can tell you that we spend a ton of money to do it.

But you can never tell what is in a persons heart just by the "useless gestures" that may appear. That gesture may just be the tip of the iceberg!!

You are absolutely right Jimmy and thanks for that insight. Seriously.

I gotta tell ya. I got pi$$ed off when richardwagons who put up the front of giving a [rhymes with spit] folded like dishrags when confronted with actually doing something. You are right. It's a matter of sample size really. For each of the two dozen sticker toting douchebags that I dealt with there are probably 2-3 people who ARE in fact doing something.

The net those 2-3 people cast is far more important.

Thanks.


Do me a favor if you can. Put the audio tracks for your commercials up on YouTube. I want to put those things on blast.

[Vegas69]

I have read this thread and agree on some, and some I feel have no clue. I'm currently in the Marine Corps (over 20 years) and enjoy it everyday, because of the one's I'm surrounded by. As far as the younger generation well In my 20 years experience they are just as motivated as I was 20 years ago. As for the one's who only do one tour and decide to move on.. my hat is off to them. A career in the service is not for everyone. Just the same as a regular job in not for everyone. With that said, I was also a recruiter for 4 years, and as far as harassing people, I would say its more educating someone more on what the military really is besides someone assuming they know. We are not hurting for people to join, and the fact is it is actually pretty competitve to get in the Marine Corps. And yes I did recruit my on son (lol). He served 4 years and got out, but today will tell you it was the best thing he has done so far. So I challenge anyone outthere that thinks the quality of Marines we have to come visit me at Camp Lejeune, and I will take you on a tour and let you have your opinion after that. An yes most have a college degree or working on one if anyone wants to know. If they don't it's thier on choice, except it may take a little longer to obtain (deployments/training). I don't hold nothing against anyone who has not served, only the one's who think they know. There is many things I have not done, but I appreciate the one's who are doing the jobs I'm not, thats why we live in such a great nation, and I'm glad to help and give us that opportunity. Okay I'm running at the mouth (finger) enough said. Thanks to everyone

Your opinion is the only one that really matters. Everybody else is just happy to have someone to stand behind. Merry Christmas.

[Yelcamino]

Couldn't agree more....

Not to pick on you Mathius, but some of your statements need fact checks... The military is not desperate in any branch (maybe Coast Guard)... 2 years ago I tried to join the Marine Corp Reserves and found out just how HARD it was to join. Granted I needed doctors notes to explain screws and plates left behind from a severely broken jaw at 16, but the process up to the bitter end was not "sign and go"... these kids that join are subjected to a number of "do I really want this" checks long before going to recruit training or boot camp. I was an in shape 25 y/o, college grad (3.8 gpa), 110 ASVAB score, high PT scoring, totally committed polee and they said "NO" at the end... believe me they aren't that desperate..

Harrassing Recruiters, Video games, despair for money don't mean crap if you've been through the process...
Getting the balls to actually talk with a recruiter, choosing an MOS, taking the ASVAB, Passing the ASVAB score min for your projected MOS, PT test, Going to MEPS, PT test, Signing the contract at MEPS, Swearing in.. actually showing up for boot camp departure... No one just signs up and "goes"... Yes things can get misleading, Yes people lie, but the process can be long and each day that goes by, each test, each doctor note gives you more than enough time to realize if you really want to do it.

The point i'm trying to make is that if think the military men and woman of today sign a paper and get $40,000 for college, your wrong... you have got to be committed... just as committed as or fathers and grandfathers...

Everything you say is pretty accurate except for one thing... the Coast Guard is NOT desparate for people to join.

I state that as a fact since I'm in charge of the 345 recruiters we employ across the country. Our recruiters say no to more people in search of active duty than you can imagine. Our standards are very stringent...

Bad credit? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest.
Health issues? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest.
Civil issues? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest (remember, we're a federal law enforcement agency as well as a branch of the military).
Low ASVAB score? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest. The average ASVAB score of people enlisting in the CG these days is 75.

One area that we do need people is for the CG Reserve force. If you really want to do something for your country but have too many commitments (job, family, school, etc) you can always look into the CG Reserve. Keep in mind, the standards for the Reserve are just as stringent and the available billets are job specific and in limited numbers, but it might be worth a look.

If any of you have questions, feel free to PM me or click: "Coast Guard" (http://www.gocoastguard.com/)

[sr73bu]

Everything you say is pretty accurate except for one thing... the Coast Guard is NOT desparate for people to join.

I state that as a fact since I'm in charge of the 345 recruiters we employ across the country. Our recruiters say no to more people in search of active duty than you can imagine. Our standards are very stringent...

Bad credit? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest.
Health issues? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest.
Civil issues? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest (remember, we're a federal law enforcement agency as well as a branch of the military).
Low ASVAB score? Sorry can't help you but thanks for your interest. The average ASVAB score of people enlisting in the CG these days is 75.

One area that we do need people is for the CG Reserve force. If you really want to do something for your country but have too many commitments (job, family, school, etc) you can always look into the CG Reserve. Keep in mind, the standards for the Reserve are just as stringent and the available billets are job specific and in limited numbers, but it might be worth a look.

If any of you have questions, feel free to PM me or click: "Coast Guard" (http://www.gocoastguard.com/)

PM sent