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View Full Version : ???? How fast can a first gen Camaro go????



HOSTILETAKEOVER
11-28-2010, 11:44 PM
Ive enjoyed reading all the Aero threads here, But it raises this real world question, "How fast can you go in a first gen Camaro?" At what point does the car loose its manners and "float around" making it unsafe at speed.

The "Big Red" camaro was mentioned in another thread and it set a record at the Silver State Challenge of 222 mph!!!! Drag racers routinely go well north of 150 mph in first gen Camaro's but only in a straight line.

I am building a PT 69 Camaro at the moment. If you do the math with respect to HP, transmission ratios and Rear end ratio it is a 200 mph car. What happens to that number when real world Aerodynamics are added in? How fast is it safe to drive? Hummmm

HOSTILETAKEOVER
11-29-2010, 09:08 AM
Hopefully some teaser pics will get the juices flowing...

My car has an Art Morrisson C6 front suspension and a Prodigy customs fabricated C4 IRS. Eventually the motor will be a 6 liter LS with a Magnuson supercharger.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/Camaro2010094-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/Camaro2010088-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/CamaroIRS010-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/Camaro2010005-1.jpg

Ron.in.SoCal
11-29-2010, 09:36 AM
I have no idea what the answer to your question is, but that rear end looks slick...!

ROBS6T8
11-29-2010, 10:17 AM
I have no idea what the answer to your question is, but that rear end looks slick...!

X2... I need one of those for my 68! Did you buy it or fab that rear end in there? Awesome!

HOSTILETAKEOVER
11-29-2010, 11:24 AM
Thanks, I'm proud of it. The rear is a C4 Dana 44 unit. The half shafts have been shortened and all the connecting links (dog bones etc..) were built with heim joints and fabbed into the car. The initial DSE mini tub installation and IRS fabrication work was done by Frank and Michael at Prodigy Customs. I then went through everything, fabbed up Willwood 4 piston brakes with stock parking brake and finnished it all up.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/Camaro2010038-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/Camaro2010051-1.jpg

sik68
11-29-2010, 02:34 PM
Wow, awesome build! I think it's very cool that people are starting to do IRS first gens now.

As for top speed, I don't have the answer either, but here's a great video on Legendary Motorcars' "Super Cuda" going for 200mph:
http://www.spike.com/video/lmc-super-cuda-takes/3307902

I've seen a lot of internet video, and this one pumps me up every time.

CamaroAJ
11-29-2010, 02:56 PM
As for top speed, I don't have the answer either, but here's a great video on Legendary Motorcars' "Super Cuda" going for 200mph:
http://www.spike.com/video/lmc-super-cuda-takes/3307902

thats awesome.

HOSTILETAKEOVER
11-29-2010, 02:59 PM
GREAT! video.

I noticed that there was a front splitter, closeout panel and splitter on the rear not to mention duct tape on the front grill. 208 mph Sick!!!

6'9"Witha69
11-29-2010, 03:32 PM
These cars have the aero of a bookshelf. It takes a lot to get them over 165/170 without serious beef under the hood and aero tricks all over.

HOSTILETAKEOVER
11-29-2010, 03:47 PM
These cars have the aero of a bookshelf. It takes a lot to get them over 165/170 without serious beef under the hood and aero tricks all over.

Thats understood, but what I'm hoping to find out from people on the board is: How fast do you feel your car is reasonably safe.

I'm certain that many of you have experienced the joy of hammering your car down the straight away. Surely all these cars we build are not bannished to tight Autocross courses....

Vinz68
11-29-2010, 03:52 PM
Cool project! I'v had my 68 up to 175 and it felt a little loose. The windshield molding pop's off a bit at 145-150 and it looks like the hood want's to blow off....lol Other than that I'd do it again!!

HOSTILETAKEOVER
11-29-2010, 04:09 PM
Cool project! I'v had my 68 up to 175 and it felt a little loose. The windshield molding pop's off a bit at 145-150 and it looks like the hood want's to blow off....lol Other than that I'd do it again!!

Thanks, thats exactly the kind of information I'm looking for. What suspension, motor, tires etc... are you running? Is the car lowered?

ProdigyCustoms
11-29-2010, 04:20 PM
There is a Super Stock Drag Car, 67 or 68 Camaro (cannot find pics) that runs Maxton. He has the typlical old school stance (pretty high), he changes gears and adds some giggle and runs right at 200MPH. SOMEWHERE there are some good shots of it at the gate at 200MPH (in a magazine somewhere) and you can see it is riding pretty high for what you would think a 200MPH car should be.

Your going to get some pretty direct feedback when we do it with Unfair. As for preperation, right now we are closing off the cowl area to prevent air from getting in the cowl / rockers at all, and will most likely block off all or most of the grill. We are also looking at some type of skid plate / wind deflector under front subframe to try and limit the amount air entering from under the engine bay.

I THINK this is the in car video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ydO4ANQl5I

Vinz68
11-29-2010, 04:22 PM
496 bbc 675hp, 4l80e, air-ride,stock sub-frame,front steer,Toyo r888 the car sit's pretty low.

LM7_67
11-29-2010, 08:17 PM
I've had my car up to 150, feels fine, and would keep pulling, but I backed off.

carb'd 5.3L, T56, hotchkis springs/shocks/sway bar

Roadrage David
11-30-2010, 01:33 AM
We did 191 mph in a classic PT set up dse mini tub leaf spring ecetera. car was avery stable platform as you can see in the last video. engine was a 461 pontiac stroker engine 530 hp 577 lbs tq 6200 rpm red line. here is a video doing 140 mphhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFaA51l1HmE 160 mph. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dp0PngisVI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Dp0PngisVI 160 mph windows closed hahahah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFaA51l1HmE

HOSTILETAKEOVER
12-01-2010, 02:08 PM
Thanks for all the responses. Frank and Roadrage David, those videos were great.

David, that drive by at 170 Video is awsome. Your car sounds like WAR when it comes past!

Check out this Mark Stielow Bottom Air Intake aero mod from his latest car "Jackass" I found for sale; what do you guys think?


http://www.techafx.com/catalog/2

gkring
12-01-2010, 03:15 PM
There is a Super Stock Drag Car, 67 or 68 Camaro (cannot find pics) that runs Maxton. ......edit....edit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ydO4ANQl5I

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268228
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I guess this really counts as more straightline fast versus protouring fast. I have had a few cars not originally designed to do 150 plus that were capable of it. As long as they were under power and were going straight ahead they felt great and under control. Once I let off or had to turn all bets are off.

shortrack
12-01-2010, 04:16 PM
Dude....you forgetting.....30-40 years ago!!.....old stock cars would run avg. 190-200 mph on a closed course (with turns and 40 other cars inches away) and other than a roll cage for safety these things were stock! (engines aside)....leaf spring back ends, drum brakes.....they would lower them, add some rake and do a few other sheet metal aero tricks but nothing you couldnt do....it wasnt until the mid to late 70s that the chassis became specialized as they are today....D

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/182010_090-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/StockCar70s_1620x461-1.jpg

JEFFTATE
12-01-2010, 08:21 PM
With a stock body and stock aerodynamics , you will need a lot of power to push it to 150-170mph.
With a huge amount of power and some aero improvements , 200mph can happen.
But , safety equipment ( full rollcage) and really good tires ( race quality ) would be a must.

I wonder what the First Gen Camaro record is at Bonneville ??

Roadrage David
12-04-2010, 01:03 AM
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=268228
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I guess this really counts as more straightline fast versus protouring fast. I have had a few cars not originally designed to do 150 plus that were capable of it. As long as they were under power and were going straight ahead they felt great and under control. Once I let off or had to turn all bets are off.
Not just straightline speed. here are some little video,s of us practising on the former F1 track at zandvoord mind you we where limited in out cornering speed due to the nitto drag radials In the rear. we did had the NT01 up front We Did catch a couple of new c6z06 corvettes and new muastangs. the 2 cars that pased us in the corners where a Ariel Atom and a 2010 c6z06 corvette with some soupt up stuf in the car... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5h-kI_t1oc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PiZjnKokuMI&feature=player_embedded http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opza1XD_Y9M another fly by http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn3K6d_e7bw

Jim Nilsen
12-05-2010, 11:58 AM
Nice car, Michael did a great job on the rear install. How well do you like it?

In 1966 Van Prothero went 200 mph+ at Bonneville in an almost stock Camaro with a big block 427 that put out over 500 hp. The car had no rear spoiler and just a front spoiler for aero stuff and the springs were beefed up and the weight of the car was brought up to 4,000 lb for traction. He bought it off a car lot in time to get it ready for Bonneville.

1st gens have been going up to and over 200 mph for their whole history.

Mine is very stable at 140mph and is still picking up speed quickly. I estimate it to go 160-165 with no real problem but after that it will take a lot of room to find top speed.

Someday someone is going to have to start a club for all the IRS Camaro's popping up.

HOSTILETAKEOVER
12-08-2010, 05:44 PM
Jim, I love my IRS and feel it makes the car a little unique. I also like the fact that the new camaro has IRS and one of the themes of the build was all modern amenities and the cool factor of the first gen.

That said, I had to make some sacrafices to have IRS. The sway bar is deleted and the shocks are in front of the spindles etc... I know it will not be the "absolute best ever handling" camaro combination ever but it will be very very good and it is what I wanted.

I would love to see pics of other peoples IRS setups in old muscle cars. Lots of PICS!!!! please

ROBS6T8
12-25-2010, 09:03 AM
Come on Kyle... post some pics. It's going to be bad arse! I'd let you guys do it to mine if it wasn't for the fertility issues the wife and I are going through. It's hard to spend money on the car when you're trying to start a family! Merry Christams to all!

StyleIn68
09-01-2011, 02:09 PM
Are you talking a stock unmodified body? With a wing or without? Splitter?

dbs1
09-15-2011, 08:10 AM
I built a 69 with a 550hp sbc that would get squirrely around 150 with upgraded suspension but stock height. I also had a 67 with a 700hp BBC that had the suspension upgraded and lowered slightly. At 165 it was very buttoned down, but I never found enough road to go more. I think with the 3.73 gears and the gv unit, 175 was going to be pushing the rpm's.

I am currently picking up another 69 and maybe a 67 and decide which one to sell, which one to keep. I'm leaning toward the lines of the 69 and going with a manual and ls3 pumped up. I road race and even on the longest straight can't get much past 155 so topping out at 170 should be plenty for me. Good luck.

John Wright
09-15-2011, 09:19 AM
Someone had posted a vid somewhere inside a boosted camaro during the Texas mile or Maxton mile event and the side glasses looked like they were going to come out of the car, they were waving around something awful.....something else to think about.

MuscleRodz
09-15-2011, 10:38 AM
223 at Silver State


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

James OLC
09-15-2011, 10:51 AM
and heading back for more on Sunday...

zzfranczz
10-14-2011, 09:30 PM
A '67 in stock trim and no spoilers the car starts to lose stability at around 125-130 and is not stable beyond 135 to 150. I found that adding a rear spoiler over a front spoiler added back more control and increased the minimum speed but did nothing for the top speed. I think the stock rubber bushings were the limiting factor.

solarguy09
10-14-2011, 10:33 PM
Long ago a guy named Dan Gottleib ran really fast in a Camaro..

solarguy09
10-14-2011, 10:40 PM
I just realized that Big red is the Gottlieb's New Car....I knew that look was something i had seen before....i still have the centerfold of the 69 that was in a magazine years ago. i kept it just like my Farrah Fawcett poster.....

NOT A TA
10-15-2011, 05:47 AM
Be careful out there folks. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk5DTlgAtt4&feature=related

James OLC
10-15-2011, 06:59 AM
A '67 in stock trim and no spoilers the car starts to lose stability at around 125-130 and is not stable beyond 135 to 150. I found that adding a rear spoiler over a front spoiler added back more control and increased the minimum speed but did nothing for the top speed. I think the stock rubber bushings were the limiting factor.

A first gen is actually faster with a front spoiler and no rear spoiler.... At least on a drag strip to about 140.


I just realized that Big red is the Gottlieb's New Car....I knew that look was something i had seen before....i still have the centerfold of the 69 that was in a magazine years ago. i kept it just like my Farrah Fawcett poster.....

Big Red is also the Gottlieb's old car

exwestracer
10-16-2011, 09:48 AM
I think the vinyl top is the key...:1st:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/10/7f13783122-1.jpg

HOSTILETAKEOVER
10-19-2011, 05:29 PM
That Video was facinating!! Thanks for posting it.

TheJDMan
10-20-2011, 03:08 PM
IMO, "Big Red" is the current speed standard for a 1st gen Camaro body style. Granted it is a full cage car but it is still a 69 Camaro body.