autocross and road course tech requirements and inspection

[69projectKAOS]

hi guys, i was wondering where i can find out what the safety requirements and what they look for to pass the tech part before you do a autocross or road course. im just wondering because i will be attending some next spring and what to make sure my car is good to go before i get there. and what 4 or 5 point seat belts are dot approved to run in these events? thanks-Dom

[Bryce]

Do a google search for SCCA for autocross rules. It really isnt much. Battery held down, everything in good working order and stock seatbelts.

Search NASA for open track rules. These really arent anything too crazy either. SilverState Classis has some rules as well. It all depends on your top speed. i think a Roll bar is required after 120mph.

[wmhjr]

There are some additional issues related to open and specialty cars, but I'm trying to find similar information. Maybe it would help to make this thread a sticky and we could update it as we find helpful information for each venue?

[parsonsj]

I've been through many tech inspections for autoX and road course. The usually include inpection of the battery tie-down, no loose articles inside the car. Cursory look for evidence of fluid leaks, and a hands-off-wheel brake slam from about 10mph.

I've also been asked to have a certified "mechanic" sign off on a checklist and then turn that signed checklist over to the tech guy. I never saw anybody review the checklist or ask me any follow-up questions. NASA has such a thing.

With all that, I've never had anybody inspect my cage welds, verify the diameter or wall thickness of cage tube, or look at my cage attachment points.

jp

[sr73bu]

http://www.schrothracing.com/store/Tuning/rallye/rallye-4

without a cage this is the only chance you have to do a open track event Dom... from extensive research and info from this forum its the best bet....

-Sean

[gtncpa]

NASA/PDA has good info. I run a few events a year and as long as you are not a vert there is no issues. I installed a 4 point roll bar with a middle cross par to be legal for track days. They check for ball joints by pulling on your wheels, battery secure, three point seat belt, car must be emptied of every thing including floor mats. Make sure your lugs are torqued down. I have seen guys loose wheels on new cars because they paid some bozo to tighten their lugs. A torque wrench solves that problem and prevents the old song being sung at the track "You picked a fine time to leave me loose wheel" :hmm:

Here is the form from NASA PDA that gets filled out when I go thru tech inspect.

[69projectKAOS]

thanks guys, so im going to need a roll cage because my car does over 120mph im sure and i feel more secure with a harness , i also have a secured battery and the only thing in the car is front and rear seats and me lol, nothing that`s going to fly around. I have a catch can for my radiator over flow so no leaking there, and new ball joints actually. But they really pull on the wheels and no floor mats?? And thanks Sean for the seat belt info i bookmarked it for now, im going to see if im going to run a cage or not, im still indecisive. -Dom

[Bryce]

If you have a toyota, then no floor mats. sorry.

[Norm Peterson]

No floor mats in any car. Period.

The presumption is that you will be driving the car far harder than you ever do on the street, and that there could be any number of possible things happen that might even dislodge mats that hook over the one or two pins OE-provided to locate them for street driving. There is zero tolerance because any possibility at all of a mat either hooking the throttle or preventing full brake or clutch application is unacceptable.


Norm

[gtncpa]

thanks guys, so im going to need a roll cage because my car does over 120mph im sure and i feel more secure with a harness , i also have a secured battery and the only thing in the car is front and rear seats and me lol, nothing that`s going to fly around. I have a catch can for my radiator over flow so no leaking there, and new ball joints actually. But they really pull on the wheels and no floor mats?? And thanks Sean for the seat belt info i bookmarked it for now, im going to see if im going to run a cage or not, im still indecisive. -Dom

I am not sure if they have any different regs for pro touring, but when I run NASA PDA HPDE days, only convertibles need a roll bar.

[pedro]

I just talked to a local NASA guy (does tech, instructs and runs mid-atlantic autocross/circuitcross) about HPDE and autocross. I have a schroth 4pt w/asm and DSE roll bar in my camaro. He said that was fine for autocross but not HPDE. Next year 4pt will not be allowed and the roll bar is not legal due to bar thickness, rear bars are bent, and cross bar is removable.

Pete

[gtncpa]

So he said roll bars are required on hard tops? Is that on older cars .. or all cars?

[parsonsj]

I run my Z06 with factory floor mats. They are difficult to remove as they've been designed for shenanigans like HPDE.

jp

[pedro]

So he said roll bars are required on hard tops? Is that on older cars .. or all cars?

No, I was asking specifically about my car... which already has DSE roll bar and 4pt in it. He said it would not pass tech for the previous listed reasons. My reading of the rules is only convertibles must have a roll bar.

11.4.7 Roll Bars
All open cars should have a roll bar installed to help protect the occupant(s) from injury
during a roll-over.

[wmhjr]

I just talked to a local NASA guy (does tech, instructs and runs mid-atlantic autocross/circuitcross) about HPDE and autocross. I have a schroth 4pt w/asm and DSE roll bar in my camaro. He said that was fine for autocross but not HPDE. Next year 4pt will not be allowed and the roll bar is not legal due to bar thickness, rear bars are bent, and cross bar is removable.

Pete

Well, if that's true there goes yet another venue. Not saying I don't understand why something like this might happen, but it will essentially destroy a large contingent of participants. I have to say it would be nice if we could get some consistent answers, as I don't want to bother with my plans for next year if at the end of the day the answer will be a full cage or no running. There is zero possibility of me putting a full cage in the car. I'm personally very much against street driven cars with full cages. You should not be allowed to drive a cage without a helmet, and I think we'd all agree that we're not going to wear a helmet every time we're behind the wheel on a street car.

Also, does that mean that all the Miatas and M-Roadsters, as well as S000's out there are now disqualified as well? Having tracked 2 of these 3 myself, I know that the roll hoop on them is WAY less support and strength than what you have which will reportedly no longer be legal.

We need to find out if this is real, and if it will affect MMCC, MCC, etc.

[pedro]

I was told after april 2011 NASA will not be allowing 4pt harnesses, you will have to have 5, 6, or 7pt.

As for the roll bar (bar not cage!), DSE uses 1-5/8 dia bars. 2" is required for a >3500lbs car per section 11.4.7 of the nasa rules. Sorry for any confusion.

If you are worried just contact the tech guys that run the events your planning to do to get the no kidding answer. Thats what I did, of course the answer was no for track days, but I would rather autocross the Camaro and track the gixxer.

[69projectKAOS]

ok so i officially think we should have this thread made into a sticky. Not only for the fact that we are getting good info, but also so everyone else could find it easier for when they are building their projects.-Dom

[wmhjr]

I was told after april 2011 NASA will not be allowing 4pt harnesses, you will have to have 5, 6, or 7pt.

As for the roll bar (bar not cage!), DSE uses 1-5/8 dia bars. 2" is required for a >3500lbs car per section 11.4.7 of the nasa rules. Sorry for any confusion.

If you are worried just contact the tech guys that run the events your planning to do to get the no kidding answer. Thats what I did, of course the answer was no for track days, but I would rather autocross the Camaro and track the gixxer.

Thanks - I have been reaching out to the tech guys. My concern is twofold. First, every track may have their own unique interpretation that you don't find out about until you get there and it may depend on who's there that day, and second that if we're in a period of change, things could still be a bit uncertain.

[Damn True]

Thanks - I have been reaching out to the tech guys. My concern is twofold. First, every track may have their own unique interpretation that you don't find out about until you get there and it may depend on who's there that day, and second that if we're in a period of change, things could still be a bit uncertain.

This is precisely why I am reticent to make this a sticky. It would really be a shame if someone took your local info as gospel and showed up to their local even expecting to encounter the same tech requirements. IMO one should check with their local NASA/SCCA or whatever auto-x/trackday club and make sure what their specific interpretations of the rules are or what their insurance requires.

[wmhjr]

True, the issue here is that some of us are planning to try and participate in events such as MMC, MMCC, etc which are far from local. Frankly, I would not make the modifications required for just the single local venue. I'm only willing if it's going to allow me to run at some non-local events. I know, "it's all about me", right? But seriously, I had pretty high confidence in my plan until Pedro posted.

[sr73bu]

True, the issue here is that some of us are planning to try and participate in events such as MMC, MMCC, etc which are far from local. Frankly, I would not make the modifications required for just the single local venue. I'm only willing if it's going to allow me to run at some non-local events. I know, "it's all about me", right? But seriously, I had pretty high confidence in my plan until Pedro posted.


Don't get too worried... heres the deal as far as I am aware....

Yes 4 pt harness are not legal without a rollcage...

Yes, i agree a cage is not safe on the street without a helmet... and there is no way in hell one will go in my car unless it becomes a dedicated track car...

The loop hole between the DOT/ factory 3 pt belts (legal with NASA) and a full cage with a 5 pt is the fact that the schroth rallye 4pt harness is DOT approved (says so on the tag) and MANY guys run them.

The loop hole is the DOT approval... that and only that is the reason why they are kind of considered factory/dot style... at least for NASA, my friend was "good to go" with them last year bolted to the rear seat belt locations (as required by the manu) at a few NASA HDPE events...

If they change the rules than its not to my knowledge and it will have many guys (a ton of wrx guys) pissed...

Not sure why in America, you cant sign a paper that says "its my fault" or "safety is my responsibilty, not the organization running it' and go race. I guess responsibilty is too hard to swallow now a days... but lets not get in to that...

Check the nasa rule book... at least last year " any DOT approved belts could be run without a cage".. again, this is the reason guys can run them...

-Sean

[wmhjr]

Thanks - my concern is more about the roll bar than the 4pt harness. I have a vert and am finishing up a design that I believe satisfies existing requirements rollover protection. However, reading the post Pedro made about the curved support bars, etc, is extremely concerning to me.

I thought a cage was only required for NASA for wheel to wheel racing and not for time trials (which is what the PT events typically are). So the post from Pedro has me concerned that rules are changing. His post to me really seems addressed by chapter 15 of the NASA rules, which I thought was for full cages and wheel to wheel. We were talking here about open cars (verts) for time trials, in which I thought chapter 14 applied but not 15. The only thing chapter 14 spells out is a single continuous loop, and for us clydesdale car owners, 2" steel. The reference to no bends in the back support (which is part of 15) is confusing me here.

[pedro]

wmhjr, after reading your post I re-engaged with the tech inspector to get some clarification. He sent me to the chief tech inspector. My DSE bar will be fine for HPDE since it is a coupe. If it was a convertable with 2in bars and the helmet was below the main hoop he said he would have no issues with it in HPDE. I did not know the full details of your cage other than 2" and I assumed bent rear bars.

He also stated as of April 4 pt will not be allowed. Which for me is going to require a change....

[69projectKAOS]

so will a newer style 3 point seat belt set-up like out of a 2000 camaro ss be suffice if installed in my 69? since its already D.O.T approved.-Dom

[pedro]

The chief tech inspector I called did say I could run 3pt.

Pete

[69projectKAOS]

The chief tech inspector I called did say I could run 3pt.

Pete

sounds good, because i can get a set from a camaro my friend is parting out.-Dom

[High Plains Mopars]

I see requiring a roll bar and 6 point harnesses in HPDE, which is designed as an entry level class, as counter to the intention of the whole program, which is to familiarize drivers in street cars to performance driving.

I think part of the problem of this interpretation in this thread is that it is heading a few different directions, which is contributing to the confusion. The OP asked about rules as they relate specifically to his car, which does not fall in to any specific catagory of competitive rules sets. Since his car already has a roll bar in it, it fall under a different set of requirements than a car that does not have a roll bar. This is why it is very important to read the rules for any particular class you intend on running in, and quite honestly, is one of the biggest problems with "pro-touring" as a classification as the modifications to most of these cars go way outside the specific rules sets for a a number of organizations, but are not modified enough for others.