hotckis vs global west arms vs speedtech

[Ishmael]

I searched "Hotchkis vs Global West arms", I even googled it and couldn't come up with anything relavant so I thought I should put it out there. Other than 4.5 (hotckis) and 6 degrees (GlobalWest)of caster, is there any differences like in the cross shafts or placement of the wheel by the LCAs? What about speedtech? Matt has a killer deal on Global West and I've also got a good deal on Hotchkis so price isn't the breaking point. What are your thoughts?

[SLO_Z28]

The big difference between the Hotchkis arms and the GW ones is the bushing material, the Hotchkis ones use a urethane material and the GW ones use their "Del-A-Lum" material. Poly is terrible in anything that articulates, significantly worse than OEM rubber in fact. Just be careful buying the GW's as they make drag race arms and pro touring ones, so make sure you buy the right ones.

[6spdcamaro]

Hotchkis uses delrin also.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We sell them all. Global West, Hotchkis and Global West all use Delrin.

One advantage with the Speedtech is the easy redrill "Gulstrand Mod" without cutting off the upper control arm bracket and rewelding. By lowering the pivot point of the control arm, not only do you get the incresed caster built into all the arms mentioned, but you also get a much improved camber gain.

Just did this to one of my personal cars

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[srh3trinity]

The big difference between the Hotchkis arms and the GW ones is the bushing material, the Hotchkis ones use a urethane material and the GW ones use their "Del-A-Lum" material. Poly is terrible in anything that articulates, significantly worse than OEM rubber in fact. Just be careful buying the GW's as they make drag race arms and pro touring ones, so make sure you buy the right ones.
Agreed on the GW's. I scored a set off of ebay and they happened to be the drag race arms. I just re-sold them and I now have to figure out what I want to buy.

[ArtosDracon]

Hey Frank, you've mentioned that the speedtech work best for the Gulstrand a couple of times, is it that the A-frame on the other arms is not wide enough, or does not stay wide enough for enough length of the arm?

[ProdigyCustoms]

It has to do with a combination of the design of the control arm shaft and the width of the arm. There is a TINY clearancing only on some cars to the flange on the top of the bracket, My street Racer needing no clearancing.

Again, sure is nice having a R and D center.

[ArtosDracon]

One last question that I'm sure few will ever notice, but do you know what brands use which color of delrin? The black delrin actually has a higher tensile strength and is harder, but is not quite as slick and because of the different molecule size, is slightly more porous, which is why it's not rated as "food grade" like the white. I'd rather have the black personally, since they should be greased anyway, and the larger molecule size will theoretically mean slight permeation by the lubricant.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Black bushings on Hotchkis and Speedtech, Blue on Global West

[ArtosDracon]

Blue delrin? O_o Or is the aluminum coated blue and the delrin just white? And if it's just the aluminum that's blue, do you know if it's an annodization, or another coating? And do the native GW control arms still come with the aluminum, or is that just their bushings for stock control arms?

Sorry Frank, they just have too many products for the rest of us to keep up with.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Blue housing, white bushing I should have said

[Ishmael]

What about lowers? Are there any differences in wheel placement? If you aren't doing the g-mod is one upper better than the other?
thanks for the info so far - keep it comin'.

[ArtosDracon]

LCAs should all have the same ball joint placement from what little I've seen. And honestly aren't worth it 85% of the time. Delrin bushings, new low friction ball joints and a good paint job on stock lowers will be 95% as good as most arms. The only real advantage I've seen is with the GW lowers with their spherical swaybar mount.

[Ishmael]

That and GW uses an indexer in the LCA to accomodate cut springs. You can also raise or lower 1/2 with their lower insert.

[ArtosDracon]

Some other companies use different versions of indexers, like DJM, but GW piece is nice. I don't know much about how the insert works, but if I'm not mistaken, it's more or less a poly(guess) isolator, which is not too big a deal.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Hotchkis does geomtry correct their lowewrs moving the lower ball joint forward to help keep the wheel centered in the opening when increased caster is added.

[MCB Matt]

We seem to sell more globals because of the lower poly pocket being used as a free ride height adjuster and the sway end links are NICE. They also do a coilover specific lower thats been popular for us! Beware, price increases are coming from almost all manufactures by jan 1st!!!

I have had an increase in hotchkis arm sales too, they make a beautiful arm.

There are sooooo many arms out there now we decided to only carry....

DSE
hotchkis
global West
SPC
speedtech

[Ishmael]

My wheels are already too far back in the openings so they sometimes rub when I turn to tight - especially in reverse. I just wrote out a plan and deleted it. I have no idea which way to go. Between Matt's deal on GW, direct from Speedtech since they are in Canada or the Hotchkis price I can get locally its a wash. I haven't even emailed Frank yet. I'm not against mix and matching but I don't know which way to go.

[killer69]

One last question that I'm sure few will ever notice, but do you know what brands use which color of delrin? The black delrin actually has a higher tensile strength and is harder, but is not quite as slick and because of the different molecule size, is slightly more porous, which is why it's not rated as "food grade" like the white. I'd rather have the black personally, since they should be greased anyway, and the larger molecule size will theoretically mean slight permeation by the lubricant.

Really?? is this the deciding factor? Speedtech uses the Acetrol Delrin Black. and to tell the truth i don't lube the bushings at all, we put greese fittings on all the locations for those who want to lube them. but it just attracts dirt.

[6spdcamaro]

One last question that I'm sure few will ever notice, but do you know what brands use which color of delrin? The black delrin actually has a higher tensile strength and is harder, but is not quite as slick and because of the different molecule size, is slightly more porous, which is why it's not rated as "food grade" like the white. I'd rather have the black personally, since they should be greased anyway, and the larger molecule size will theoretically mean slight permeation by the lubricant.

Isn't the black less porous than the white, but the white is stronger?

[Ishmael]

Re read a few of the posts. Now I'm more undecided than ever. Global West lowers will help index the spring and fine tune the height. Hotchkis will help move my wheel back forward which would really help but their uppers don't have quite as much caster as GW while speedtech can improve on that by allowing you to do a quasi-Guldstrand mod. Frank, would that affect my spring choice? And I noticed Blake chimed in, I love this board. I think it would be stupid not to go with speedtech uppers if I don't have to do anything crazy for springs to pull of that mod. Now the question seems to be about the lowers. I'm getting there.

[MrQuick]

Isn't the black less porous than the white, but the white is stronger?

Black delrin (Delrin 507) uses a surface lubricated resin with UV stabilizer. Last longer than the white (Delrin 100). From my research it is equal in strength.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Your starting to over think it. Coil spring isolators can be used to change ride height very easily if changes are needed.

Speedtech wins.

[Ishmael]

Does that quasi g-mod require anything special regarding shocks or springs? If not, I know which way I'm going. Thanks for all the help guys. :cheers:

[Bryce]

What about hotchkis lowers and speedtech uppers? THe lowers move the wheel forward and speedtech gives corrected geometry. For ride height tuning go with coilovers if they are in the budget?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Does that quasi g-mod require anything special regarding shocks or springs? If not, I know which way I'm going. Thanks for all the help guys. :cheers:

Nothing changes except the pivot point. Call me when your ready.

[ProdigyCustoms]

What about hotchkis lowers and speedtech uppers? THe lowers move the wheel forward and speedtech gives corrected geometry. For ride height tuning go with coilovers if they are in the budget?

To be honest it really is not a issue unless you go for more then 4 to 5 degrees of caster. And 4 to 5 degrees is more then enough.