Updates to the LM7 67 Camaro

[LM7_67]

My car started off mostly stock and original, but it eventually got the 5.3L LM7/T56 combo (that thread can be found here: http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1140915-1967-camaro-carbd-5-3l-lm7-t56.html ), full Hotchkis suspension, and Lee Manufacturing steering box. For 3 years the car looked like this:
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But with Super Chevy Phoenix and the Duel in the Desert event approaching, I decided to make some radical changes to improve performance on the autoX course. That is where this thread picks up: the modifications that led up to the Duel. Speedtech Tubular upper control arms, base-C6 front brakes from Kore3, L&H Kustoms billet hubs, and 275/40/17 NT05s all the way around. (Yes, it is possible to run a 275 on the front of a stock subframe Camaro with the right combination)

First step, get stuff out of the way!
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I’d like to thank David Pozzi for this idea. I saw it in one of his posts years ago and decided to give it a try since I didn’t want to see what a pickle fork would do to my aluminum spindles. It worked like a charm!
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Old vs. New. This illustrates exactly why I switched to the tubular arms: tire clearance. Without that bend in the leading tube it would not be possible to fit the 275s.
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The new UCAs required very minor clearancing of the mounts with a grinder. So much for having a 100% stock subframe. Passenger’s side (driver’s is about the same):
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Everything’s back together and ready to go. I also spaced the steering arm away from the spindle at this point with washers. After an alignment, it was ready to go on to the next phase!
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I was originally going to use turned-down drums hubs for the Corvette brake swap, but after reading a couple failure stories, I decided to go with billet aluminum hubs. The L&H Kustoms hubs came with ARP hardware and billet grease caps.
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These should definitely hold up better than the originals.
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Old brake components removed:
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Conversion bracket from Kore3 in place. This piece required very minimal grinding on the back to clear the larger geometry of the L&H billet spindle.
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New hubs and rotors in place. These are just a little bit more performance oriented than the stuff sitting on the ground there.
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Calipers bolted up and the brakes complete aside from swapping the master cylinder to one with a smaller bore, replacing the proportioning valve with an original style one that could be “gutted,” installing the adjustable proportioning valve under the floor pan right behind the driver’s side rocker panel, and bleeding the system.
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With appropriately sized adapters bolted up, I could set the car on the ground and bed the new pads/rotors.
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There ya have it: 275s all around on a stock-subframe first gen.
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First test drive was approximately 2 hours before we left for California to meet up at Spectre for the Duel in the Desert event. The brakes performed without issue throughout the drive/event. Aside from changing the fuel pump at 7am Saturday morning, the weekend went off without a hitch.
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Thanks for checking out my thread! That’s all for now. I may post up some old modifications if I feel the posting itch before new mods happen.

[Bryce]

Cool post. If I owned a Camaro I would do the same thing! Super Sleeper

[Vicinity]

Nice, almost the same thing I've done. My 275's clear the front without the upper control arm modification.

[zuess4u]

LM7 67....

nice up grade...keep in touch for further events, we will have to meet up sometime. The color on your car is Butternut?

[LM7_67]

LM7 67....

nice up grade...keep in touch for further events, we will have to meet up sometime. The color on your car is Butternut?

yep, butternut yellow, let me know what car shows you make it out to


Nice, almost the same thing I've done. My 275's clear the front without the upper control arm modification.
ah, the inner hoop of my wheel hit the UCA. I'm ok with a little rubber on frame contact, but aluminum wheel to steel contact is not ok

[Vicinity]

yep, butternut yellow, let me know what car shows you make it out to


ah, the inner hoop of my wheel hit the UCA. I'm ok with a little rubber on frame contact, but aluminum wheel to steel contact is not ok

Weird. I'm running the exact same wheel and brake setup, with a 1.75" spacer.

[LM7_67]

Weird. I'm running the exact same wheel and brake setup, with a 1.75" spacer.

whoa, if I ran that thick of a spacer, my wheel would be in direct contact with the fender lip even just sitting still, at least on the passenger side

[zuess4u]

I was thinking we would use this color, but just not sure yet. The 67 is far from being on the road, but ironic my fathers 69 is set up with the same motor and different trans as yours, I scratched my head when he said he was going to run a carb on his motor....but it makes some sense to me now.

[PhillipM]

Nice work man. The first time I saw this car was at the spring Goodguys event. Looked like you had the autox down! I was in our Grey 65 Olds.

[Pontiac Chris]

Hey Tom, thanks for letting me ride shotgun round the autox at Duel in the Desert, your car runs awesome! Love the upgrades, exactly what I want to do to my Firebird. How does it handle compared to the stock spindle/control arm?

[LM7_67]

Time for updates! :D

After a few SCCA SoloII events, a couple GoodGuys AutoX's, a Super Chevy AutoX, and RTTC 2, I decided I needed more. After getting home from SuperChevy Vegas, I started taking the front end of my car apart. The goal is to clean up the sheet metal and make the whole engine bay look good. Also, I'll be finding another subframe to perform some serious modifications on. Thinking coil-overs and even more tire clearance. The goal was to have the car back together for the Camaro Performers Summer Jam in August. With that event possibly not happening, that's still approximately my goal. Can't stand going more than 3 or so months without driving my car :6gears: Currently, all the sheet metal in front of the fire wall is apart, some pieces already at the blasters. I hope to find another subframe next week so I can start the modifications to that. I'll keep this thread updated as I make progress. For right now, just time lapse steps of front end disassembly.

The easy stuff:
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This is about where I started thinking, "oh ****, am I ever going to get it back together?!"
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This is exactly 1 week after I began the tear down:
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Open wheel racing, anyone?
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And when I was going through the pics on my camera, I found these gems from right after RTTC II.

After I covered my car with mud Saturday morning spinning out on the road coarse, I hosed it off and I thought I got most of the mud off. But I was wrong. This stayed with me all through the rest of Saturday, all of Sunday, and a 400 mile drive home.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This is what happens when you don't have enough static camber.
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Hopefully more updates in a few days :)

[Chad-1stGen]

Cool. Looking forward to following along!

[Nessumsar]

Very cool man. Keep us posted!

[LM7_67]

Two weeks after starting this project. Only thing holding the engine and trans in are the motor mount bolts. Just need to convince one of my friends to lend me their hoist for a bit so I can get them yanked. Then on to find another subframe and break out the cut off wheel and welder :ssst:

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[mjds]

love that color it keeps things underrated, little bit more of a sleeper keeps people guessing!

[LM7_67]

Well, after experiencing computer issues, camera issues, and starting a new job, I'm finally posting updates.

Yanked the engine/trans out a few weeks ago. Freakin' easy with nothing in the way

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Then I scrubbed down the firewall and cowl area to get it ready for paint.

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After removing the heater box and blower motor, I was able to reach inside the cowl vent area. This is what I found. Car's going to be faster just from the weight savings!

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And this is where I'm at now.

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Inner fenders and brackets should come back from the powdercoaters tomorrow. Then it's time to order up some parts and get to work.

[Chad-1stGen]

Sweet!! Are you going to clean up the subframe while you are at it?

[Z06killinSBF]

Looks good!! What paint did you use? I used the duplicolor bed liner on mine and it worked wonders!!

[LM7_67]

Sweet!! Are you going to clean up the subframe while you are at it?
oh yes, the subframe will look quite a bit different when I'm done with it


Looks good!! What paint did you use? I used the duplicolor bed liner on mine and it worked wonders!!
just Rustoleum 7777, satin black

[LM7_67]

woo! finally more updates!

Got the inner fenders and the main brackets back from the powder coaters a couple weeks ago. They're just sitting waiting to be installed.
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After 5 weeks of waiting, I finally got the subframe from the junkyard. They still hadn't gotten it pulled when I came down for the 3rd time and was like "wtf guys". To make up for it, they gave me all the suspension bits that were on the sub for free. "uhh, thanks, I'm not going to use any of that stuff anyway."
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Subframe all cleaned up and ready to go. Also got some nifty LCAs, but I believe those will be modded as well.
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Currently waiting on a package from Speedtech and for the weather to cool a bit so I can start cutting up the sub. Hopefully most of the waiting game is behind me at this point. Now hoping for a mid-Sept finish date.

[tylers88]

looks good, funny that it has an LM7, thats the same engine as my Silverado

[Nessumsar]

Glad to see those junkyard guys finally got off their duffs. Hopefully the weather will cool down, I want to see what you have planned.

[LM7_67]

Made some good progress this week considering it was over 110* every day...

Laying out the game plan. If you ever want to see some truly terrible welding, sand blast an original 60's frame.
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All chopped up. Only need to do a bit of clearancing on one of the notches and to cut out the upper spring pockets.
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Bolted up the new LCAs and the rest of the old suspension bits to determine just how much clearance I made.
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There is nothing linking the steering arms at this point so the tires are at maximum possible deflection.
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At this point, I'm waiting on a delivery from Summit that should arrive Monday. Then I can place an order with Speedway Engineering, and from that point, the only parts left to source are the springs/shocks. And then to weld it up and put it all back together...

[RicerwannaB]

Looking good, and inspirational!

[Chad-1stGen]

Sweet!!! Been wondering how your project was coming along.

[LM7_67]

Chicane brackets showed up last Friday. Working on the ideal position that gives maximum room for the coil-over while still clearing the UCA.
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Using a super high-tech wooden dowel to mock up the sway bar. Bending the arms is going to be a blast...
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Mid-September finish date is looking pretty shakey at this point. We'll see how things go.

[robertjra]

i did the same thing to my sub frame check it out. (1969 camaro called wicked impression)

[LM7_67]

Updates!

Got all the parts for the sway bar last friday. The arms will be bent to follow the contour of the frame and then shortened to the correct length.
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Also got the springs last week. Plenty of clearance to run the sway bar arm around the spring.
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I did run into one issue however. Compare the next 2 pictures....
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Now, looking at some pictures, and from what I remember, the balancer might still just clear the tubular sway bar. If it doesn't fit, even with shimming it lower a bit, the old Hotchkis bar will bolt right in place. I'll lose some turning radius, but at least it will work until I can figure out another solution.

Also, talked to the guy who I'm going to have weld everything back together. He did not seem optimistic about my time line lol.

[Pontiac Chris]

Looking good, was the turning radius very restricted before? Looking forward to seeing it come back together.

[Chad-1stGen]

Before you got to the "comapre the two" pics part I was already wondering about the balancer. I can try and look at my car when I get home but I don't think it would clear my SBC with serpentine pulley.

Could you mount the arm in front of the cross member? The side arms/links look plenty long enough.

Oh and while you have everything apart I'd strongly encourage you to reinforce the subframe wherever you mount the sway bar. I've cracked my subframe there pretty good even after welding it up from the first time.

[LM7_67]

Looking good, was the turning radius very restricted before? Looking forward to seeing it come back together.

During 99% of normal driving, even in parking lots, the turning radius didn't cause any issues. But there have been a few autoX courses that seem to be designed for miatas (even though they were at PT events) where I've had to hold the tire against the frame just to make a corner. Gave me very little option in choosing a line and I'm sure the rubbing disrupts the contact patch.


Before you got to the "comapre the two" pics part I was already wondering about the balancer. I can try and look at my car when I get home but I don't think it would clear my SBC with serpentine pulley.

Could you mount the arm in front of the cross member? The side arms/links look plenty long enough.

Oh and while you have everything apart I'd strongly encourage you to reinforce the subframe wherever you mount the sway bar. I've cracked my subframe there pretty good even after welding it up from the first time.

I remember considering this, looking at the clearance in that area before pulling the engine, and thinking it'd be ok. Not sure now though. That is one of the options I will consider if it does not clear. Yeah, I've seen that area crack before; it will definitely be reinforced.

[icemanrd19]

i know you are going to reinforce the areas where you cut out so do you see any structural integrity being compromised by doing this?

[StyleIn68]

Looks awesome. I loved following your swap story on ls1tech.

What did you use to cutout the notches in the frame for the tire clearance?

[LM7_67]

i know you are going to reinforce the areas where you cut out so do you see any structural integrity being compromised by doing this?

With the reinforcements in the frame, I believe it'll be of similar strength to a stock sub.


Looks awesome. I loved following your swap story on ls1tech.
What did you use to cutout the notches in the frame for the tire clearance?

4.5" cut-off wheel on an angle grinder

[hotroddr]

Mid september is around the corner, how is the project coming along?

[LM7_67]

Mid september is around the corner, how is the project coming along?

lol, mid-September ain't happening. I found someone to weld up the subframe so that should be done by the end of next week, but there's still an issue getting my coilovers from Bilstein. Apparently, they recently moved their motorsports operation from Mooresville, NC to Poway, CA, and it's caused a huge back up in production.

[AZSaleen04]

Nice job Tom....subsribing.

[Bryce]

Apparently, they recently moved their motorsports operation from Mooresville, NC to Poway, CA, and it's caused a huge back up in production.

HMM, maybe I should apply for an engineering position?!? That is 5 miles from my house. HAHA. I am excited to see this car run.

[LM7_67]

Good news!! Got my frame back from being welded up this week, and my coilovers arrived yesterday :D :D

The frame. Just going to clean up a couple spots on it and off to the powder coaters it goes.
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mmmmm, coilovery goodness.
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Now hopefully the powder coaters can do a pretty quick turn around for me. And I need to get the coilovers valved, but then it's just reassembly! (it sounds so easy in writing) New goal is Oct 16th.

[robertjra]

wow frame looks good!!!!!

[LM7_67]

One more pic during final mock up this weekend.

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[Nessumsar]

Woohoo!!!

[Speedy911]

Those little 5.3s hold some serious power. I'm currenly doing a build with a 4.8 Turbo'd. Keep us updated.

[MIKE67]

Looking great! Looks like the same coilover/spring combo I'm using (Bilstein/hypercoil). What spring rate and valving are you using?

PM'd regarding Coronado.

[DFRESH]

Tom, that's awesome. Didn't find this till now---very cool. Are you upping the tire size or staying the same? Guess you got my 225's covered with those 275's already.

Doug

[makoshark]

Check this out...

http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspension-components/tru-turn/tru-turn-upgrade-package-1967-69-gm-f-body.html

[LM7_67]

Tom, that's awesome. Didn't find this till now---very cool. Are you upping the tire size or staying the same? Guess you got my 225's covered with those 275's already.

Doug
Doug! keeping the 275s for now. once I wear this set out (and my bank account recovers) I'll look into going larger.


Check this out...

http://www.ridetech.com/store/suspension-components/tru-turn/tru-turn-upgrade-package-1967-69-gm-f-body.html
not interested.

[Bryce]

Tom, this is looking good. Don't forget about what we talked about at coronado speed fest.

[LM7_67]

Well, everything fell into place to start the assembly process this weekend. Just waiting on getting my coil overs back from Bilstein, which should be middle of next week.

This is where we started Saturday morning.
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New subframe going in...
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Shortly before I called it quits for the evening.
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Will be back at it tomorrow. I figure mechanicals this weekend, sheetmetal the next, and I'll be in good shape to make my goal.

[AKlowriderZ71]

Thanks for sharing, I've been quietly watching how this goes. Subscribing.

[LM7_67]

Making progress....

Sunday afternoon:
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Before going to work on Monday:
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[73z-6sp]

vgbhnjm

[LM7_67]

Looking great Tom! Hey...are there any track days in Phoenix that you recommend?

Thanks Aaron! you mean open track road course events?

[Bryce]

Nice progress. Now hurry up.

[MIKE67]

Making good progress. Here is the DYI Shock Dyno link I told you about.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2325055
Let me know what you think.

[LM7_67]

Nice progress. Now hurry up.
lol, I'm working on it!


Making good progress. Here is the DYI Shock Dyno link I told you about.
http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2325055
Let me know what you think.
Now that is fascinating. It's so simple. I really want to attempt this.

[MIKE67]

PM or give me a call. Maybe we could work on it together or make 2!

[73z-6sp]

fvgbh

[PhillipM]

Too be honest, there really isn't a lot of open track events in AZ.. Though, I wish there were more!

[LM7_67]

Another productive weekend...

Assembled most of the suspension Saturday, and this is where we started Sunday morning.
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Shortly before calling it quits Sunday evening. I can't believe it looks like a car again. I am so ready to drive it.
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Just an interesting perspective. Finally figured out how much air cleaner to hood clearance there actually is. Way more than I thought.
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The plan is finish putting it together, alignment, emissions, drive it to Jerome on Saturday, and a SCCA event on Sunday.

[MIKE67]

Just picked up a HOT ROD (Sept '11) I hadn't read yet, and there you are AGAIN! And that happy face. Stalker! You get more press than Justin Bieber. The car is looking great.

[LM7_67]

So I fired her up yesterday morning and got to drive her around today!! 5 months and 12 days since I last drove it; it's good to be back.

Drove around today with the front end looking like this. And expired tags. Surprised I didn't get any attention from the police.
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And what's hiding in here....
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Complete with a Hot Rod Magazine-style to-do list.
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This whole process has shown me what career I want to pursue: restoration parts. You can make parts that aren't even close to accurate, and everyone just accepts it. Not one single reproduction part I had to buy for this project has fit without modification.

[solarguy09]

Very nice build thread.....Sweet camaro....

[Bryce]

Congrats!

[tooblue]

Lookin good !

[boostin05blacksti]

Love the build. Do you have a detailed drawing or measurments for the frame work done? Or did you just figure what needs to go and stay and do it little by little? Love the butternut also!

[LM7_67]

Love the build. Do you have a detailed drawing or measurments for the frame work done? Or did you just figure what needs to go and stay and do it little by little? Love the butternut also!

No actual measurements other than the notches are 1.25" deep in the front and 1" deep in the rear.

[Rybar]

Project looks good, let us know how it compares with the latest changes.

[LM7_67]

Whew, this weekend was certainly an adventure. So Friday night I just had a couple things left to button up/check over before cruising to Jerome (small mining town in Northern AZ) on Saturday. Car is running well, and I foresee no issues for the weekend. So we do a little of this:
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Have some lunch in Jerome, and on the way back down, I see the car's running a little lean. Didn't think much of it until we got stuck in traffic on I-17, basically a stand-still, and the car barely wants to idle. Wide band is showing 20+ AFR. Oh ****. 3 miles and 45 minutes later, we get cruising again and I make it home. I tinker with the carb some... no help. Thinking it might be an ignition problem, I head to Autozone for new plugs. As soon as I get out of the car, I hear hisssssssssssssss. Something went through my tire and created a large enough hole to hear it without listening for it. Double ****. Immediately head home so I don't get stranded there with a flat. Just about ready to say **** it considering I have to be up at 4:30 Sunday morning. But, I headed back to Autozone to get a tire plug kit and the spark plugs. Get home and pull the offending object out of my tire:
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Can someone please tell me how you get a 5" long drill bit to go through your tire blunt end first? After fighting with the plug kit and down to my second to last plug, I finally get the tire to hold air. Change the spark plugs and see if it makes a difference. Nope, still super lean. Triple ****. I adjust the idle screws on the car waayyy out to get the thing close to a good afr. Still sounds weird, but better. Take it for a test drive around the block, and the stupid thing is now really rich! Put the idle screws back about where they were before and now it idles well and has a good afr. I guess the idle circuit got semi-clogged from sitting for 5 months and just needed to be cleared out. So I finally make it to bed about midnight, and sure enough, can't fall asleep.

4:30am comes way to quickly. Check the air in the plugged tire, see that it's still good, and hit the road for Tucson. The car runs great all the way there, and I get to do this all day:
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Drive it back home Sunday afternoon with no issues at all. Roughly 500 miles on it in a weekend, 2 weeks after starting to put it back together. Success.

[73z-6sp]

...

[Vicinity]

Do the notches allow lock to lock turning?

Car's looking good, bro.

[LM7_67]

So I guess it's time to post the driving impressions. First, I'm definitely happy with the changes I made to the shock valving. By lessening the damping under high-speed shock travel, bumps and jolts no longer upset the car, and as a pleasant addition, it's smoother for street-driving as well. I used the same rate springs and low-speed shock valving as before so the car feels the same in those regards. However, as has been discussed, the splined sway bar does not clear the balancer. I have a couple ideas to get that to work but that'll be a project for another day. Running the Hotchkis bar for now. Also, due to the larger sump on the Autokraft oil pan, the inner tie rod ends have limited clearance. So between the sway bar and oil pan, I have basically the same turning radius as I had before :doh: . Oh well, things to be sorted out. Too many upcoming events to worry about those now.

Oh yeah, picked up a straggler from the Super Chevy Show AutoX...

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Didn't find it til days after the event...

[Rod]

ha ha ha ha !!!!!! I love souvenirs! :hah:

[bonecrrusher]

LOL - awesome.

[Bryce]

nice Conage (cone plus carnage)

[Chad-1stGen]

hahahahaha. After your facebook post I had to dig up your thread so I could see what your driving impressions were. That cone stowaway is hilarious!!

Bummer about the turning radius deal but sounds like it still may be doable at some point?

[67 ls1 vert]

thats one heck of a brake duct you have there.

[LM7_67]

hahahahaha. After your facebook post I had to dig up your thread so I could see what your driving impressions were. That cone stowaway is hilarious!!

Bummer about the turning radius deal but sounds like it still may be doable at some point?

Should still be doable. Just going to take some custom fab work. Oh well, I'll figure it out eventually.

[Olav]

So I guess it's time to post the driving impressions. First, I'm definitely happy with the changes I made to the shock valving. By lessening the damping under high-speed shock travel, bumps and jolts no longer upset the car, and as a pleasant addition, it's smoother for street-driving as well. I used the same rate springs and low-speed shock valving as before so the car feels the same in those regards. However, as has been discussed, the splined sway bar does not clear the balancer. I have a couple ideas to get that to work but that'll be a project for another day. Running the Hotchkis bar for now. Also, due to the larger sump on the Autokraft oil pan, the inner tie rod ends have limited clearance. So between the sway bar and oil pan, I have basically the same turning radius as I had before :doh: . Oh well, things to be sorted out. Too many upcoming events to worry about those now.

Oh yeah, picked up a straggler from the Super Chevy Show AutoX...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Didn't find it til days after the event...

Air duct for the brakes ????

[LM7_67]

Just an update with what has been going on with the car lately.

Recently did a sound test out at Arizona Motorsports Park. They have a 94.0 dB limit due to ****ty neighbors so they put on these tests where you can make 2-3 laps for free to see if your car is under. Mine is not. 97.0....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvCqA19nqfk

Then a SCCA autoX at Firebird International Raceway last weekend.
Fastest lap during competition runs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM4HfwcC5pg

Fastest lap in Time Only's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZW5yWmpWEc

This past week, I was messing around with the car and decided to add a fill port through my shifter so I can change/add tranny fluid without having to pop the shifter off. Not real exciting, but I thought it was a good mod for a car that gets raced a lot.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hmmmm, wonder what these could be for.... Those of you at RTTC will find out ;)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Also have another project going on. These aren't for the car, but something related. Will be posting updates on this one as well.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

February is going to be a busy month. :D

[Bryce]

Nice! I think I know, HEEHHEHE. See you at RTTC.

[LM7_67]

Making progress...

The start of some brackets:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Certain pieces are starting to come together:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Picking up a whole bunch of goodies tomorrow :D

[Bryce]

Looking good Tom!

[ryeguy2006a]

I love the stock looking appearance. Nice car.

[LM7_67]

ooo what could this be...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

No fancy welding table needed.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Not the prettiest welds ever...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

... but I got good penetration.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And most importantly, I did it myself :)

Thank god this is a long weekend. Have a ton to do before RTTC, but I'll make it or die trying.

[Bryce]

ooo what could this be...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

No fancy welding table needed.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Not the prettiest welds ever...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

... but I got good penetration.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And most importantly, I did it myself :)

Thank god this is a long weekend. Have a ton to do before RTTC, but I'll make it or die trying.

Not bad for an engineer!

[solarguy09]

Some Hard Core work and driving...well done..

[MyFriendScott]

Not the prettiest welds ever...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I hate to say it since I enjoy watching your build, but those welds look "cold". There may be some welded metal in the center of the pool, but the edges of the weld look like they are sitting on top of the parts from too little heat/current. You might want to try testing the bond by hitting the end piece with a hammer to see if you can knock it off. If it were me, I would grind it all down and go a little slower with the torch.

What I think you have is the bead picture in "100A" where there isn't enough heat to properly weld the two pieces together. A proper heat affected zone (discoloration around the weld) would also be more noticeable.
55802

What you are shooting for is more like this where the weld is uniform across the added metal from the wire. The discoloration from the applied heat is also more noticeable on both work pieces.
55803

Slow down as you weld the pieces and make sure you have a good view of the puddle as you work. Hope this helps.

[LM7_67]

I hate to say it since I enjoy watching your build, but those welds look "cold". There may be some welded metal in the center of the pool, but the edges of the weld look like they are sitting on top of the parts from too little heat/current. You might want to try testing the bond by hitting the end piece with a hammer to see if you can knock it off. If it were me, I would grind it all down and go a little slower with the torch.

What I think you have is the bead picture in "100A" where there isn't enough heat to properly weld the two pieces together. A proper heat affected zone (discoloration around the weld) would also be more noticeable.
55802

What you are shooting for is more like this where the weld is uniform across the added metal from the wire. The discoloration from the applied heat is also more noticeable on both work pieces.
55803

Slow down as you weld the pieces and make sure you have a good view of the puddle as you work. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice. I tried the hammer trick, and smacking them with a deadblow didn't seem to phase them. I looked over the welds pretty closely, and there's a mix of the colder "sitting on top" and the hotter "more sunken in" weld.

[LM7_67]

Some other goodies that will be making it on to the car during this upgrade:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Spent most of Sunday making this front crossmember:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Springs pockets modified to accept LCAs:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Mocking up the watts frame. The mounting points for the coilovers will be built off of this:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Front crossmember finished!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

All and all, about where I wanted to be at the end of this weekend.

[Nessumsar]

Check you out! Is there any reason you are using a uni-ball on the front of the control arms and not another heim?

I'll be looking at this out at RTTC. Good luck on the rest of it.

[LM7_67]

Check you out! Is there any reason you are using a uni-ball on the front of the control arms and not another heim?

I'll be looking at this out at RTTC. Good luck on the rest of it.

Jon! Yeah, I'm hoping the urethane-bushed uni-balls will cut down on the road noise transferred by heims. See you at RTTC!

[Motown 454]

Nice porogress. That is a nice brake set up. They make a great product.

[Chad-1stGen]

I see the addiction is in full swing Tom. Haha I hope you make RTTC!

[LM7_67]

Mid-week update. Not much has happened in the past 8 days as I spent the weekend skiing in Utah.

This is a great sight. Still a bunch more to do, but I can see the end now. Hopefully most everything will be wrapped up after this weekend.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Spent a lot of time creating this before I cut the first piece of metal. I can't take credit for the housing/carrier though; found those online.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nessumsar]

Muy bueno!

[MIKE67]

Looking great Tom! Nice CAD work too! Looks like a nice homemade axle tab location jig also. It shows that you don't need all kinds of expensive tools and stuff to build a cool car. Now I just have to get out to the garage and work on mine.

[LM7_67]

Looking great Tom! Nice CAD work too! Looks like a nice homemade axle tab location jig also. It shows that you don't need all kinds of expensive tools and stuff to build a cool car. Now I just have to get out to the garage and work on mine.

Thanks Larry! Can't wait to see yours on the road.

Picked up the last of the real hardware today.

These should be a good starting point.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I thought this was heavy. Would not want to pick up an iron one.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[tooblue]

Tom,, From the looks of the scale on the floor (in the last pic.). You can not take weight out of the car by setting the scale at -5lbs before you weigh anything.. lol Looks good man. Roger

[LM7_67]

Last weekend before RTTC....

Most of Saturday was spent finalizing the upper coilover crossmember. I wish this ended up being lighter, oh well.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Mocking up the torque arm
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Coilovers in place
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Torque arm finished up
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Where I left off tonight
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Will be back at again tomorrow night. Luckily all the fab work is done, just have to assemble everything now.

[jtm311]

Nice work.. I see someone has pointed out to you about the welds, I can see you are not getting enough heat (to Cold) they are sitting on top of the metal. I'm guessing you are using a 110v welder? Remember don't worry about how nice they look, but to make sure the edges of each weld is cutting in to the steel.:fingersx:

Just my 2 cents.

John

[Gandalf]

Awesome progress Tom - you inspire me with your approach to this hobby. Looking forward to seeing you and your car this week!

G.

[rohrt]

Nice home fab work. Love the build.

[TT302Z28]

Just found this thread for the first time...wow! Amazing home engineering. Please keep posting your progress.

[blown67]

pm sent

[Nessumsar]

Sooo?????

[Bryce]

You going to make it?

[Nessumsar]

He must be out in the garage working!

[arue333]

So. How is it going? Ride results?

[SlowProgress]

Life just isn't the same without updates !!

[LM7_67]

Ok, finally taking the time to update this. Last update was the Sunday night before RTTC. As most of you know, I did make RTTC, but it was not an easy journey. I had it mostly together Tuesday night, but found out the links for the watts were too long. So Wednesday during my lunch, I ran out to a offroad shop and picked up some weld-in threaded adapters so I could make new links Wednesday night. Get them together and finish up the last couple things on the car. I know something's not quite right since there's an interference between the rear rotors and the backing plates from Kore3, but I press on (more of this later). First drive was about 1am Thursday morning over to my buddy's house to pick up my hood. Gave me enough time to bed in the new pads. Drove the car to work that day and left for California about 5pm. Made it to the La Quinta in time to catch the last of the parking lot partiers.

Here's a couple pictures from that week. Wasn't taking many due to rush to get the car done.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So Friday morning of RTTC. Luckily I was on the autoX first so I could test out my new suspension that I finished up just over 24 hours prior. It was running fine throughout the day until late afternoon on the autoX course. Heard one pop, didn't think too much of it, heard another, and then the sound of metal dragging on the ground. Oh ****. Car is still rolling ok, but I coast off to the side. Get out to look underneath, and my &)($&#% torque arm is hanging on the ground. Push it back to the pit area and get it up on jack stands to see wtf happened. The upper bar cracked and sheared which placed the entire load on the lower turnbuckle which then failed.

Red lines show where it broke
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

After running around asking everyone if they had a welder on site. Brett from Fab53 offered to take it home and weld it back together for me that night. HUGE thanks to Brett for this. He saved my ass big time. He brought the arm back Saturday morning, complete with lots of extra bracing and the ubiquitous Fab53 sticker. Threw it in and went racing. Raced all day Saturday without issue, and then drove it home on Sunday.

Whew.

Drove it to work one day the week after RTTC and realized something was still wrong. Took me a few weeks to dig into it, but I found out that the offset of my rear axles (flange to bearing) was wrong. Rear rotors dug into the backing plates and pad abutment brackets. Got that fixed just last weekend and cleaned up all the collateral damage. Finally driveable again last Sunday. No issues. 'tis a good feeling.

So how do I celebrate?

Drive on a bunch of dirt roads today
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It's filthy beyond belief, but it's good to be back. :D

[Nessumsar]

Rally Camaro!!

Glad to hear you got everything sorted out. When is your next trip to LA/OC?

[Gandalf]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Now that's a MAN's wheel spacer right there Tom!

Always great to hang out with you at events and see your latest mods! Glad you got this sorted - Brett does fantastic work and sounds like he saved the day! Glad the issue wasn't any worse and that you can just chalk it up to part of the R&D lifecycle :-)

G.

[Gandalf]

Oh yeah, how about a performance review after all your hard work? Did you get enough seat time to really experience the difference(s)?

G.

[LM7_67]

Rally Camaro!!

Glad to hear you got everything sorted out. When is your next trip to LA/OC?
I dunno.. when's the next cool event going on?



Always great to hang out with you at events and see your latest mods! Glad you got this sorted - Brett does fantastic work and sounds like he saved the day! Glad the issue wasn't any worse and that you can just chalk it up to part of the R&D lifecycle :-)

G.

I just need to learn to do my R&D closer to home :D

full report on driving impressions in a week or so

[sgernon]

Do you have any pics of the reenforced torque arm? I've been thinking of doing something similar with my car for a very long time and you've really got me thinking.

[LM7_67]

This is bad:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nessumsar]

Whats wrong with that? All I see is a light-weight "race" bearing...

I should probably check mine too now that I think about it.

[carguy502]

No Bueno. I assume the missing rollers were long ground up. Any damage to the spindle?

Don

[LM7_67]

This is really bad:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[dolf]

Time for an AFX spindle with C5 hubs! Sweet build man

[LM7_67]

Wow, I've been slacking on keeping this up to date. I'll try to pick up where I left off.

So last May I found that the wheel bearing exploded, gouging my spindle. Due to some difficulty getting a hold of Luke at L&H, I started to look at other options, and sure enough, a smokin' deal on a set of these popped up in the classifieds.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Of course they installed with no problem, but the real issue lies in that the AFX spindles have ¾” drop built in while the old L&H spindles had none. This takes the wheel and moves it up into the outer tie rod end. Where I had barely marginal clearance before, I now had a major issue. Luckily, one of my buddies had a set of “short” first gen arms laying around which moved the outer tie rod end in approx. ½”.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Unfortunately, this was still not enough. I decided to go with a stud and rod end arrangement to move the outer rod end up as much as possible. Also unfortunately, no one makes a stud adapter in the correct taper/size for the first gen steering arm that’s fully threaded.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/91636055_R-1.jpg

After having a machine shop ream out the steering arm to match a Ford 7* tapered stud and trimming down the stud as short as possible, I found that it would just barely fit behind a set of 18” C5 wheels I had laying around. Of course, by this time, Return to the Coast is practically around the corner (beginning of October). Luckily, there was no crazed rush to finish the suspension this time; just an alignment on the day I had to leave and then off to California where the car performed great. I didn’t have any problems all weekend…
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

…until the drive home. After the awards ceremony, I left El Toro about 6pm. Now, I know I have to get up at 5am for work the next day and it’s roughly a 6 hour drive back home. So I load up on Red Bull and snacks and hit I-10. My goal is to just stake awake. Just East of the Riverside/San Bernardino area, the car starts to act up. It’ll intermittently lose power and break up while cruising along the highway, but I decide to just press on. Where I-10 cuts through the hills, it has gotten to the point where it’ll lose all power and I have to coast off to the shoulder a couple times, but it’ll keep idling. At this point, I’m thinking I got a bad batch of gas in LA, and my one goal is to make Chiriaco Summit so I can fill up and put in some gas treatment. After nearly getting run off the road by semis as I was coasting, I finally made Chriaco where I filled up and pressed on. Still not running right. By this time, I’ve found that I can get up to cruising speed for a few minutes and when it starts to break up, I can put in the clutch and coast from 70 down to 50 and then back in gear to get up to 70 again and cruise for a few more minutes. Now I’m thinking it’s the fuel pump that’s getting weak and not keeping the carb’s bowls full. Regardless, I press on and continue this cruise and coast method all the way back to Tempe, AZ. It kept me awake no problem, but it’s now 2:30am, and I have to get up in 2 and a half hours. Blargh. At least I made it.

A couple days later, when I decide to look at the car, I jack up the rear end and find the root of my troubles.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Then I remember bottoming out hard while getting lost trying to leave El Toro (the brake line bracket sits directly below that clamp). At least it’s an easy fix.

Of course at this point, my registration is also expired (drove to Cali and did RTTC on a temp-tag). I can pass emissions without much issue, but I had cut off my tail pipe and was running just a turn-down in front of the axle. AZ law states that the exhaust must exit at the edge of the vehicle. I wasn’t going to let such a silly rule stop me so I rigged up an exhaust to use for emissions testing which provided no shortage of amusement to everyone who saw it.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Through emissions and registered – Whew!

[Bryce]

how did the car do at RTTC?

[LM7_67]

how did the car do at RTTC?

20th on the road course. 17th on the autox. it was refreshing to not be fighting some weird driveability problem with it.

[PhillipM]

Dang man sorry to hear about that drive! Glad you made it back safe. I've had that happen however it wiped off the brake line. Again, glad you made it back.

[Bryce]

great job!

[MIKE67]

Glad to see you are back up and running. I was wondering what you were up to. Your exhaust fix deserves to go on "There, I fixed it".

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/01/untitled-1.png

[KnightMare]

In AZ your Camaro has to pass emissions test still? In NC we don't have to if the vehicle is 1995 or older. 35 years we just pick up a tag with no inspection

[LM7_67]

In AZ your Camaro has to pass emissions test still? In NC we don't have to if the vehicle is 1995 or older. 35 years we just pick up a tag with no inspection

Yep. In AZ, anything older than '67 is exempt. Anything '67 or newer has to meet the requirements that were in place for that model year so I only have to meet '67 standards. Not too difficult with a modern LS engine.

[rustomatic]

This is a great thread--it reminds me of my own progression with my Falcon, although my "fixes" have not been quite so drastic. There's always the next round...

[LM7_67]

Alright, so at this point, it’s the beginning of November. Car’s running well – all is good. Scottsdale GoodGuys was a blast, and the following weekend was a track day on Firebird Main.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

In the middle of December, I decide to give the car a look over, and sure enough, I find another issue.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I only had maybe 0.050” clearance previously, and I thought even with a little wheel flex, that’d be fine. I could live with a little self-clearancing. Little did I know the outer rim would move almost 3/8”!!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

So it was time to tear the front end apart again.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

With some help from my good buddy Dale, we took a torch to the steering arms and bent them in roughly 3/8”. Ackerman is just a suggestion, right?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

With everything back together, there was a ton more clearance. Best part is that I can fit my 17’s again!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This brings us up to the present day. I would say everything will be ready for RTTC at the end of the month, but that will just be jinxing myself. :)

[Rod]

It will be great to see you again Tom! see you at RTTC

[SparkyRnD]

that exhaust is hilarious!