Keisler RS600 [Archive] - Pro-Touring.com

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NvrDun71

11-10-2010, 08:27 PM

Anyone planning on running the new RS600 by Keisler? Sounds like a pretty cool alternative for something in between the TKO 600 & the T56 Magnum being based on the T45RS platform and requiring zero floor mods. Below is a portion of the e-mail I got today from Jeff over at Keisler in response to a few questions I had......

"This is the new line of transmissions we have been developing since `07. We're approaching release soon and hope to have these ready to release by January. The RS600 is an upgraded and redesigned version of the T45RS that we sell now. It will not require any cutting, will shift at higher rpms and have the same smooth shift quality just like the T56. This trans is essentially a 5 speed version of the T56."

"This will use the same bell as a Muncie 4 speed and gearing will be: 2.80 1.99 1.33 1.00 .67 o/d. "

carguy502

11-10-2010, 08:56 PM

Interesting. Did you get any work on pricing for the unit?

NvrDun71

11-10-2010, 09:05 PM

Interesting. Did you get any work on pricing for the unit?

He said they haven't determined pricing yet, but it is in the works. Should definitely be less than the T56 Magnum just don't know by how much?

KeislerJeff

11-11-2010, 01:11 PM

Full details will be announced here on the forum as they become available. Just a little fyi, this is not a Tremec box and is based on the Borg-Warner T45 platform which is a 5 speed version of the T56 6 speed.

Taman

11-11-2010, 01:18 PM

I am saving to convert my TA to a 5 or 6 speed. I am also waiting on pricing and details. Will it handle 600hp?

NvrDun71

11-11-2010, 01:50 PM

68Formula

11-11-2010, 03:20 PM

I'd like to know the torque rating. The ratios look nice.

KEISLER

11-12-2010, 12:33 PM

We have a couple members here that have already been hot dogging their RS600 test units since September - Albert Melchoir's Warpath "Lite" '73 Trans Am and Yancy John's "Project Fast Lap Fairlane" '70 Ford Torino. I will ask them to jump in here with their comments.

While price is not released yet, it will be comparable with the Tremec TKO-600 price. And it WILL FIT a LOT better. And it will SHIFT a LOT better - from the gate changes to the high rpm.

Mr Nick

11-14-2010, 11:08 AM

At what RPM is shifting an issue with the TKO600? My SBO will likely have a shift point of 6,000 RPM. I was going to install a TKO600 this winter, but the RS600 might be another option to consider. Especially if floor modifications are less.

opnwide

11-14-2010, 04:36 PM

I'll be watching this thread, too. I plan on blowing up my super T10 sometime after the big January car show:)

HELLCAMINO

11-15-2010, 11:48 PM

Keep us updated.......I am ready to order a Tremec from Keisler's, but will wait now till 2011 to see if this trans is better and worth it.

YancyJohns

11-16-2010, 03:33 AM

First off, I can't believe I have waited this long to go from a auto to a manual. What a Difference!! I know I picked up 10-20 hp. Bill Howell drove the Fairlane the other day and was very impressed and said, "Now this car is Fun." I can't wait to get the Fairlane on a road course and really see the changes. Since September, I have enjoyed the new RS600, shifting is great and torque has improved. After the 4th transmission, this is by far the best.

tazzz25906112

11-18-2010, 05:28 PM

I unfortunately recently lost my dad and haven't had as much time as anticipated with the new RS600 as I'd would have liked too....

However, what I tell everyone from the board is I'm old school and like to run updated old large cubic inch motors in my cars... The WarPath Light TA runs a 400ci Pontiac that has been stroked to 462ci and has a host of trick internals..... Anyone that knows Pontiac motors know they produce gobs of torque and tend to be hard on drive-line components if they aren't built built proof. Now that little 462ci motor makes plenty and with the 3" mains it can spin up too,,,, which isn't so common in a Poncho environment usually...

My Tremec 600 in the Green 70 Formula last year was a good trans,,,, but if you tried to aggressively shift from 2 to 3rd at over 6,500RPM (not an un-common occurrence,,,of course in the right environment ;-) it would tend to be a real tough to shift,,, if not a miss shift in many cases above that 6,500RPM mark....

Now Shafi, I know you said to go easy initially,,,, but Hell easy is for Grand-mothers buddy..... The good news is I have """ kicked the living daylights out of that tranny"""" and it is "GREAT"!!!!! You guys hit this one out of the park Shafi and I can say with the seat time I've had so far it does everything anyone could ask and more.... It's very smooth and provides for a great driving experience...

Now I'm going to be throwing a curve ball at you this Spring (all things equal),,,,, cause Rolando Presutto of RP Motor sport's is currently putting together a little 474ci pump gas Poncho Monster that should put out in excess of 700hp and a torque curve that will make every component of the drive-line scream for mercy....

Flash68

11-18-2010, 09:25 PM

Nice reviews guys. Thanks for posting.

Mr Nick

11-20-2010, 04:45 PM

Sounds good. Just need availability and price info. Will this be available in the 'kit' like the TKO500/TKO600/T56 are?

Damn True

11-20-2010, 05:18 PM

KEISLER

11-27-2010, 02:04 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

We will be launching the new Keisler RS PerfectFit 5-Speed officially next month. We debuted it at the Chicago Muscle Car and Corvette Nationals last weekend. Here is some info about it, compared with our previous offerings. As this product will prove itself in the months and years to come, it is a major advancement in the market, and is Keisler's new flagship product.

DESCRIPTION ... KEISLER Rallye Sport "RS" 5-speed
The evolution of the Keisler T45RS line started back in 2007, the Keisler RS 5-Speed product line takes our overdrive transmission systems to a higher level of quality, value and performance.

1) A Perfect Fit
Thanks to an all new feature rich extension housing case and a heavily revised shift system, we are able to package the RS as a PerfectFit for a no cutting, no compromise fit in most popular muscle cars and classic sports cars. PerfectFit with the RS is standard - not an upcharge (like our tremec tko perfectfit kits). More than 15 shifter handle mounting positions exist for all popular domestic cars, sport trucks and kit cars.
> GM A-body NO CUTTING - For the first time ever, owners of Chevelle, GTO, Skylark, 442 will be able to install a 5-Speed with NO CUTTING to the tunnel ... a major improvement over our tko perfectfit kits. The RS provides uncompromised driveline angle and assures your engine won't be tilted back with exhaust headers pointing down to the ground, and you won't have driveshaft vibration - typical problems found when a tko is installed.
> GM F-body NO CUTTING - owners of Camaro and Firebirds will no longer have to notch the shifter hole and use a compromised boot sealing arrangement (req'd by tko).
> Corvette NO CUTTING - the main advantage of RS for Corvette owners is that there is no compromise of the driveline angle, and there is MUCH more clearance between the transmission and floor tunnel.
> GM B-body, NO CUTTING - For the first time ever, owners of Bel Air, Impala, Biscayne and other apps will be able to install a 5-Speed without the major tunnel surgery typical of the tko.
> GM X-body and other apps like Cobra kit car having a shallow tunnel will greatly benefit by the RS PerfectFit design, allowing installation with little (gen 1) to no mod (gen 2) to the floor tunnel, while keeping perfect shifter position. Again, these

2) Unsurpassed Shift Quality, High RPM Shifts, NO 2-3 Misssed Shifts
Thanks to the Borg Warner designed carbon fiber lined Blocker Rings in all gears, and Double Friction Cone system in 1st and 2nd gears, the RS features the best shift quality of any aftermarket manual transmission (including tremec tko, 3550, 3650, t5, t56, Richmond). At Keisler, we redesigned the shift systems of reverse, added bearing support under the shift forks and other portions of the single rail system. While the BW T45 was designed several years after BW T56, and shares it's synchro system design, the shift quality is even better than T56 because the shifter rail/fork/interlock system has less mass and fewer joints. The result is a very nimble shifter feel. Additionally, the advanced carbon lined synchro system has a much higher coefficient of friction than paper lined blockers, or just plain brass blockers (like TKO). The result is far less shift effort at the handle. The shift quality right out of the box is clean and smooth with no break-in, and a world of difference better than the best highly modified, proshifted TKO; withouth the big price adder.

The Keisler RS cleanly shifts at 7000rpm - more than 1000rpm higher than TKO's 6000rpm cutoff.

The RS has a guide plate shifter system unique to any manual 5-speed on the market. This guide plate mechanism cleanly guides the shifter in/out of gates 1-5 & R. A 2-3 miss shift so common to TKO - as many of you already know - is nearly impossible with the RS. I haven't been able to miss a 2-3 shift with the RS.

4) Close Ratio & Standard Ratio Gearsets
Standard Ratio Gearset - 3.37, 1.99, 1.34, 1.0, .67 (1.38 step change in 1st, 33% RPM drop in overdrive)
RS400 (400 torque): 1-1/16 x 10 spline input shaft, SAE 8620 nickel-moly steel alloy
RS500 (500 torque): 1-1/8 x 26 spline input shaft, SAE 9310 chrome-nickel-moly high strength steel alloy, CNC ground gears

Close Ratio Gearset (new)- 2.80, 1.99, 1.34, 1.0, .67 (.81 step change in 1st, 33% drop in overdrive)
RS600 (600 torque): 1-1/8 x 26 spline input shaft, SAE 9310 chrome-nickel-moly high strength steel alloy, CNC ground gears

3) Lower Cost and Better Value than previous offerings
Keisler Engineering created the business of retrofitting Tremecs and have sold more than 13,000 of those units since 1999.
The Keisler RS 5-Speed now sets the new benchmark of the flagship overdrive transmission system. And, we've managed to do it for hundreds of dollars less than the tko. And we're going here in the USA - gears, cases, shifter components

razor66

11-27-2010, 02:26 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

We will be launching the new Keisler RS PerfectFit 5-Speed officially next month. [/B]

This is fantastic news. I am glad to hear about this new transmission design as I'm sure a lot of others will be as well. It also sounds like you have your ducks in a row on the development in addition to to using components made here in the USA - fantastic! I know you mentioned how the transmission will be a direct fit in many of the GM models, but what about for us Ford guys? I am definitely interested in one of the transmissions as a replacement for the Top Loader 4-speed in my 66 Mustang Fastback, but curious how it will fit this type of application.

Mr Nick

11-27-2010, 03:02 PM

Hi Guys and Gals,

We will be launching the new Keisler RS PerfectFit 5-Speed officially next month. [/B]

Fantastic news, thanks for the update! Better transmission for less money, glad I didn't swap a TKO in last year.

KEISLER

11-28-2010, 05:58 AM

This is fantastic news. I am glad to hear about this new transmission design as I'm sure a lot of others will be as well. It also sounds like you have your ducks in a row on the development in addition to to using components made here in the USA - fantastic! I know you mentioned how the transmission will be a direct fit in many of the GM models, but what about for us Ford guys? I am definitely interested in one of the transmissions as a replacement for the Top Loader 4-speed in my 66 Mustang Fastback, but curious how it will fit this type of application.

Hi razor66,

Yes, Ford apps will benefit as well:
> Direct replacement for Top Loader (all models)
> Direct replacement for T5 in Fox Body Mustang (requires bell)
> Direct replacement for T45 in SN95 (1996-2001) (choice of integral bell or SFI bell)
> Direct replacement for TR3650 (2002-2004)

Engine apps: 289/302/5.0L, 351Windsor, 351Cleveland, 390/428FE, 429/460, 4.6L/5.0L/5.4L mod motors

> Mustang all years thru 2004
> Fairlane, Galaxy, Torino, Cougar, Comet, Falcon
> Cobra kit cars - about this app, we have a super slim tailhousing so you don't have to build your car around the transmission.
> Ford truck - 2wheel drive
> Street Rod

We have PerfectFit No Cutting solutions with the Keisler RS 5-speed for many of the above apps. And when modification is required, the amount of modification will be far less than TKO or T56.

Shafi Keisler

razor66

11-28-2010, 06:39 AM

Hi razor66,

Yes, Ford apps will benefit as well:
> Direct replacement for Top Loader (all models)
> Direct replacement for T5 in Fox Body Mustang (requires bell)
> Direct replacement for T45 in SN95 (1996-2001) (choice of integral bell or SFI bell)
> Direct replacement for TR3650 (2002-2004)

Engine apps: 289/302/5.0L, 351Windsor, 351Cleveland, 390/428FE, 429/460, 4.6L/5.0L/5.4L mod motors

> Mustang all years thru 2004
> Fairlane, Galaxy, Torino, Cougar, Comet, Falcon
> Cobra kit cars - about this app, we have a super slim tailhousing so you don't have to build your car around the transmission.
> Ford truck - 2wheel drive
> Street Rod

We have PerfectFit No Cutting solutions with the Keisler RS 5-speed for many of the above apps. And when modification is required, the amount of modification will be far less than TKO or T56.

Shafi Keisler

Sounds great. I'm looking forward to hopefully having the opportunity to try one out soon as it sounds like it has all the features I was hoping for in an overdrive transmission. Glad I've held out this long and didn't settle for something that I likely wouldn't have been as satisfied with and would have also likely paid more for as well - including the associated additional installation costs. Are there any plans in the near future to offer a "road race" close ratio 5th gear option?

TBART70

11-28-2010, 07:04 AM

KEISLER

11-28-2010, 08:31 AM

Sounds great. I'm looking forward to hopefully having the opportunity to try one out soon as it sounds like it has all the features I was hoping for in an overdrive transmission. Glad I've held out this long and didn't settle for something that I likely wouldn't have been as satisfied with and would have also likely paid more for as well - including the associated additional installation costs. Are there any plans in the near future to offer a "road race" close ratio 5th gear option?

Yes, a Road Race option is in the works.

KEISLER

11-28-2010, 08:42 AM

RS600 (600 torque): 1-1/8 x 26 spline input shaft, SAE 9310 chrome-nickel-moly high strength steel alloy, CNC ground gears

Even though the tko is rated for 600 ft/lbs. it is said it will live with higher, have you abused the RS at higher levels?

An accelerated durability test on a transmission dyno by an ISO accredited facility is in the works to see just how much torque the RS600 can take.

n4racing

11-28-2010, 08:45 AM

So the next question is "What about Mopar?" A-Bodies especially.

Thanks

KEISLER

11-28-2010, 09:28 AM

So the next question is "What about Mopar?" A-Bodies especially.

Thanks

Well, you know being a fan of Mopar muscle cars, I have a personal obligation there.

Mopar B-body
The RS PerfectFit turned out to be stellar improvement over our TKO PerfectFit design. When installed, original driveline angle was achieved with NO CUTTING of the tunnel as previously required with TKO. Only the small rectangular hole for the shifter is needed. WAY better fit!

Mopar A-body
We have a design underway, and a '68 Barracuda 340 in the shop now. In several more weeks, I should have an update.

Mopar E-body
The RS PerfectFit tailhousing is provisioned for Mopar E (Cuda/Challenger), and we will have an update on its release date sometime next month.

We'll post first updates on Facebook (Keisler Engineering) as they develop.

Shafi Keisler

razor66

11-28-2010, 09:46 AM

Yes, a Road Race option is in the works.

Wonderful, just what I was hoping to hear. Any estimate on when this option will be available? Thanks for the updated information, and again I'm looking forward to experiencing the benefits that this transmission sounds like it will provide.

The WidowMaker

11-28-2010, 01:39 PM

how are the dimensions compared to a tko600 as far as a swap? ds, mounts etc...

Roadrage David

11-28-2010, 02:04 PM

I whant a 7000 rpm shift manual ,that can take 700+ hp 700lbs feet of tq. Witch is cluchless and can be fitted to this!!!!. http://mastershift.com/newvideogallery.html.
giving me this so that i can be competitif with my car against these frikinng euro GT3 endurance race cars..

KEISLER

11-28-2010, 02:22 PM

Regarding the Road Race 5th gear, I am targeting this for the second quarter of next year.

Regarding the installation dimensions, I'll get an installation drawing up this coming week. For those of you having our TKO kits, this will be a simple upgrade - you need just the tranny and RS crossmember - that's it! The reason the crossmember is needed is because the RS is synchronized in reverse, where TKO is not, so the case length is longer by about 1-1/4 inch.

As for the clutchless option, we'll evaluate this down the road. We already have the Road & Track 6-Speed Clutchless box that can be outfitted with automation if desired.

andrewb70

11-28-2010, 04:02 PM

razor66

11-28-2010, 04:10 PM

KEISLER RS 5-Speed
Regarding the Road Race 5th gear, I am targeting this for the second quarter of next year.

Bummer - that is going to seem like a long wait, but I'm sure it will be worth it. Do you know what gear ratio you will be offering for the Road Race option?

Damn True

11-28-2010, 05:24 PM

Roadrage David

11-29-2010, 12:34 AM

As for the clutchless option, we'll evaluate this down the road. We already have the Road & Track 6-Speed Clutchless box that can be outfitted with automation if desired.
Npw your talking i have send you a email not to long ago but didnt get a reply. so your clutchless 6 speed can be fitted with the master shift sytem!!??. if so then in the new year we wil probely be in bisenis.!!

Roadrage David

11-29-2010, 12:37 AM

http://www.emcogears.com/dv46/

Get your wallet out. LOL

Andrew
Andrew that link you put up is the rezen im leaning to the post i made above!!!. that combo i have in mind is very ecspensif , BUT stil mutch cheaper then EMOgears.com..

ace_xp2

11-29-2010, 10:54 AM

Looks great! One thing I haven't seen mentioned though, what does it weigh?

Oh, and do you have a VSS sensor for it?

CliffsBlueCamaro

12-03-2010, 10:30 AM

They have the RS500 and RS400 listed on Ebay now...Good pricing Keisler!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150526384491

Mr Nick

12-14-2010, 10:05 AM

Hi Guys and Gals,

We will be launching the new Keisler RS PerfectFit 5-Speed officially next month.[/B]

Any better ETA for full release date?

Flash68

12-14-2010, 10:44 AM

Any better ETA for full release date?

I've been communicating with Shafi and Jeff lately and they said pre-orders taken now with an expected release/delivery date of Feb.

Mr Nick

12-14-2010, 02:03 PM

I've been communicating with Shafi and Jeff lately and they said pre-orders taken now with an expected release/delivery date of Feb.

No kidding, I didn't know they had pricing available yet for the Perfect Fit kits. I'm not willing to place an order unless I know exactly what I'm getting for the money. I'll have to give them a call.

Flash68

12-15-2010, 01:49 AM

No kidding, I didn't know they had pricing available yet for the Perfect Fit kits. I'm not willing to place an order unless I know exactly what I'm getting for the money. I'll have to give them a call.

I got pricing on both the whole kit and just the trans, but I don't think they're really advertising it anywhere. Better contact them directly.

preston

12-17-2010, 12:22 PM

At this point I'm mostly interested in a Tranzilla type 5 speed that can take 800 ft lbs. Sounds like this is a nice alternative to the TKO but not any stronger. I'm not sure I can fit a T56 and really don't want the extra weight either, but would like to quit breaking 3rd gear.

Nothingface5384

12-18-2010, 12:22 PM

i'm interested as I shall be picking up a 73 buick apollo, do you have a BOP bellhousing for the kt-rs600? or would i have to use a chevy housing with an adapter plate?

andrewb70

12-18-2010, 06:07 PM

i'm interested as I shall be picking up a 73 buick apollo, do you have a BOP bellhousing for the kt-rs600? or would i have to use a chevy housing with an adapter plate?

No special bellhousing is needed. Just use a stock BOP bellhousing designed for a Muncie.

Andrew

67CamNKC

12-18-2010, 07:23 PM

Nothingface5384

12-18-2010, 10:56 PM

No special bellhousing is needed. Just use a stock BOP bellhousing designed for a Muncie.

Andrew

hmm, nice to know!

HELLCAMINO

12-22-2010, 03:53 AM

What is the pricing on these?

razor66

12-22-2010, 04:18 PM

The following are some links to videos which contain additional information about the new Keisler RS transmissions. I have also pasted some information that I received in an e-mail announcement from Keisler regarding the transmissions today that I think will be helpful to those that didn't already receive it.

http://keislertv.com/video_detail.php?mId=14816
http://www.keislertv.com/video_detail.php?mId=14602
http://www.keislertv.com/video_detail.php?mId=14603
http://www.keislertv.com/video_detail.php?mId=14674
http://www.keislertv.com/video_detail.php?mId=14781

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/433-1.jpg

Dear Enthusiast,

As promised, we bring you some big news for the month of December. For 19 years, my company has been working on bring you new and better ways to improve your classic car. For the past 11 years, my focus has been primarily on re-engineering the Tremec aftermarket TKO 5-speed, and we have sold more than 13,000 of those units. While our highly customized Keisler PerfectFit TKO & Kit remains the best solution on the market for adapt the tremec, we have developed "the better mouse trap". This is the Keisler RS 5-Speed. Why is it better? Here's why:

1) Better Fit - No Cutting in more applications (like Chevelle & GTO where the TKO requires cutting), better driveline angle for vibration free highway cruising

2) Better Shift Quality - No Missed Shifts (common TKO problem), clean high rpm (7000rpm) shifts (TKO limit is 6000rpm), no notchy feel and much less effort at the shifter handle.

3) Better Gearing - We've perfected the 1-2 rpm drop on the RS600 close ratio

4) Less Cost - You will save from $300 to over $1000 over a comparable torque rated tremec kit

Better product, better price, built right here at Keisler Engineering with USA top shelf components. This is a major advancement for the market. The Keisler RS 5-speed begins shipping next month January 2011 and we are taking orders NOW, including Blockbuster discounts good thru Dec 31st.

Trade-In Welcome: We still continue to sell and service the Tremec TKO as we did before. If you'd like to know more about our distribution and sales of the Tremec product, click here. We are offering a trade-in program to existing customers where you can trade in your TKO for the RS. No change in driveshaft, same shifter position, but better product.

Read on below, watch the videos and learn more about the RS product. Visit our website STORE and find the RS kit for your application or email us for a quote. We are making some major revisions to the website now, so check back often starting from the homepage.

Blockbuster Sale Ends Jan 1 - Call Us Toll Free 888-609-0070 x1 or email us to save big money on all transmissions and kits. For quicker service, mention your quote number.

KEISLER on SPEED TV Check out our project build every Saturday and Sunday on SPEED CHANNEL Chop Cut Rebuild. Episode 9 of 13 is airing next, and has a shop tour and tranny build at our factory.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year! See you at the shows, and Facebook !

Shafi Keisler and The Staff of Keisler Engineering
KEISLER .. Leading Supplier of Overdrive Transmission Systems with more than 14,000 sold!
Established 1991 ... Better Business Bureau A rated!

Keisler Year End Sale!

Transmission kit orders received by closing time December 30th will qualify for one of the following discounts*:

- Orders $2500 or less receive a $100 minimum discount
- Orders from $2501-$3000 receive $150 minimum discount
- Orders from $3001-$3999 receive a $175 minimum discount
- Orders from $4000 and up receive a $200 minimum discount

*Discounts apply to new orders only and cannot be combined with any other discounts.

The All-New Keisler RS Series Takes PRI by Storm!

By Geoff Stunkard - Quarter Milestones Publishing

The crowds that attended the 23rd annual Performance and Racing Industry (or PRI) in Orlando, Florida on December 9-11 got an exciting first-hand look at a group of new five speed transmissions for universal rear-wheel-drive applications up to 600 ft-lbs torque. This event, which focuses exclusively on performance hardware, was the perfect place for Keisler Engineering to debut their new RS Series line, which is superceding previous offerings with all-new internals, PerfectFit packages, more optional levels, and price points for every budget.

The RS stands for Rallye Sport, a term that quite adequately describes the functional use of these new units. Three years in the making, the RS Series is targeted toward street/highway applications, plus drag racing, road courses, and autocrossing. There are three primary factors which Shafi Keisler, Pres/CEO, says will establish the RS 5-speed to be the leading choice of transmission over previous offerings:
1. Fitment: An all-new aluminum case designed with American classic cars, street rods and kit cars in mind is the hallmark of the RS. For example, owners of 1964-72 Chevelle & GTO will get both the perfect shifter position and driveline angle with no cutting or alteration of the floor tunnel. Similar benefits exist for applications like 1955-57 Bel Air, '62-74 Nova, 1966-70 Charger/Road Runner/Coronet, Ford Fairlane/Torino, and numerous other apps that required cutting of the floor tunnel to fit Keisler's previous offerings (including the Tremec TKO). In fact, any of the PerfectFit shifter positions - of which there are more than 15 - are standard on the transmission at no additional cost. Moreover, the new main case (available Q2/2011) uses a revised shift system to provide a height reduction of nearly ¾ inch over the current RS main case, and features no less than three bellhousing bolt patterns: GM Muncie/T10, Toploader, and Chrysler A833. This means less cost and easier adaptation.
2. World Class Shift Quality: Through the adaptation of double cone, carbon fiber lined steel synchronizers, the RS Series provides a dramatically better shift quality than previous offerings using single cone brass synchro rings (Tremec TKO). The RS can cleanly shift at 7000rpm, with low shift effort. Additionally, the new guide plate and single rail architecture provides precise clean guided shifts, and NO missed 2-3 shifts - a common problem among TKO owners.
3. Exceptional Value: Pricing starts at just $2299 for a complete RS400 PerfectFit Kit tailored specifically for your application. The RS500 PF kit runs just $2599, and the RS600 PF kit runs $2999. And all of these prices include a transmission, dynamic balanced driveshaft, crossmember, isolator mount, speedometer cable with calibrated gear, backup light wiring, needle roller pilot bearing, grade 5 & 8 hardware, fully illustrated manual, and 3-year blanket warranty coverage.
But these are not the only major changes, because Keisler brings a more durable set of internals than were previously available as well. For instance, the input shafts in all RS500 & 600 transmissions are made from 9310 chrome nickel moly steel, and the gears are CNC-ground in the United States. Close and wide ratios designs are available. Starting with the RS 400, rated for any application up to 400 lbs-ft torque, the unit uses a 1 1/16 x 10-spline input shaft. The stouter RS 500 and 600 units use an even heftier 1 1/8 x 26-spline input shaft, handling power outputs of 500 and 600 lbs-ft torque, respectively. The RS400 & 500 gear ratios run the standard ratio first gear (3.37) which is ideal for small block and mild big block running differential ratios up to 3.73. The RS600 uses the new close ratio gearset (2.80 1st) which minimizes RPM drop between the 1st-2nd gear change. The accompanying chart will show you exactly what ratios come in each unit.

More importantly, as mentioned, Keisler is using double-cone synchronizers in the RS unit. Most transmissions in the aftermarket - including Tremec, Richmond, Doug Nash, and niche-built units - still use the older single-cone brass synchro ring, technology which dates back to the 1950s. Not only does the RS use dual-cone synchronizers for even smoother high RPM shifts in first and second gears, but these are carbon fiber-lined onto steel blocker rings for excellent durability - a high tech material developed by 3M and Borg Warner in the late 90s. Another welcome feature is the synchronized reverse which eliminates the gear grind found in many other aftermarket transmissions (Tremec, Richmond, and niche-built).

Moving into the shifter area, the RS makes use of Keisler's unique milled internal guide plate, which allows forceful shifts without fear of going from 2nd to 5th gear. Shifted internally, the RS transmission uses a single top shift rail, allowing the RS to be built much narrower than units like the Tremec are. The new RS tailshaft has provisions for over 15 different shifter locations; any are possible at no additional charge. Like previous transmissions in Keisler's PerfectFit kits, this will allow the transmission to be offered as a ready-to-use package with design advantages specific for your vehicle.

The new tailshaft housing will be joined by a new main housing in 2011's second quarter, as testing continues on ensuring that this new casting will be the best possible; in the meantime, main cases will be based on the Borg-Warner T45 . Again, the narrow design was critical to choosing this over wider examples when considering fitment into the widest variety of applications. For GM and Ford applications, the shifter is simply moved to the proper location on the tailshaft housing before shipping; housings for Chrysler torsion-bar vehicles will be milled to clear the factory supports in those applications, again with the shifter placed for your car's specific location so little to no modification to the car is required. Indeed, possible offsets on the RS are 3.5"wide and a large 13" long. Whether as a direct replacement for the transmission in your musclecar, or being custom-adapted to your street rod or kit car, there will be an RS solution to you.
Other features are mechanical and electronic speedometer options, as well as mechanical or hydraulic clutch releaser configurations. The latter adaptation can be done without having to reseal the input shaft bearing retainer, making changeover a breeze.
Finally, pricing on the new units has been done to help the buyer get the best value in the current economy. For folks that need just a transmission and not a complete PerfectFit kit, pricing starts at just $1499.00 for the RS 400. And for the popular Fox body, SN95 and newer Mustangs, Keisler has the RS400 with integral bellhousing for just 1399.00.
The unit was well-received at the event, with hundreds of attendees looking over this exciting new product. Indeed, the producers from PowerTV.com even filmed a feature on the RS for their online programming, and Keisler Engineering will have the latest developments shown on KeislerTV.com as well. Check it out, then call them to get your build program into overdrive with the latest in transmission technology!

Geoff Stunkard is an author, magazine editor, and photographer with 25 years experience in the automotive aftermarket. Media company clients include Source Interlink, Amos, J.R. Thompson, Good Communications, and others. Contact him at [email protected]

strtlegal

12-23-2010, 09:55 AM

I just find it sad that all of the nice features they've implemented as compared to the TKO version to which they've known about for awhile now and yet still sold the TKO units..It sure would have been nice to know how sub par these TKO's are before spending alot of coin. Which are now forced to, depending on application to either yank it out or upgrade it...Maybe someone should have said " The TKO's are a great cruiser transmission with a nice overdrive, instead of the "up to 600hp they can handle".

Sad very sad

Flash68

12-23-2010, 11:28 AM

strtlegal

12-23-2010, 01:22 PM

I heard that they are not on the best of terms with Tremec, but could be just a rumor. Hence why they advertise all the issues with the TKO unit...

Vegas69

12-23-2010, 02:03 PM

How thoroughly have these been tested?

Mr Nick

12-23-2010, 09:16 PM

razor66

12-24-2010, 05:28 AM

It does like they are being rather blunt about the TKO series shortcomings, but the point of most any new product is to be better then what's it replacing. It's like buying a new car, only to find out there will be a total redesign the next model year that handles better, stops better, has more power, and gets better mileage...

Exactly - that's what innovation and progress is about, but as described in the car purchase example it can definitely be initially disappointing as well as that seems to be my luck more times than not. At least with transmissions there hasn't historically been a high rate of technological advances unlike computers, cell phones, etc. where older models seem to be obsolete on an annual or lesser basis. I do think it is good that Keisler is offering a trade in program for previously purchased Tremec TKO transmissions if someone has interest enough to change to one of the new RS models.

As with most any new product only time with use in real world applications will show the true performance and reliability of the transmission, but it sounds like they have been working on the development of it for several years so I would say that the odds are in favor of it performing well.

tazzz25906112

12-24-2010, 06:24 AM

How thoroughly have these been tested?

I really can't speak for Shafi here Todd,,,, but it handled three days of me personally thrashing it intentionally very hard in the WarPath Light TA car buddy.. Oh and BTW,,, I showed it no mercy what so ever man ;-)...

First impressions are its a really smooth little trans that looks like it has the guts to do the heavy lifting... I'm thinking of speaking with Shafi because I may just pull the TKO 600 out of the white 72RS car with the big aluminum motor and replace it with Shafi's RS600 trans... That 555ci motor likes to rev and when I swing it up over 6,500 it's a bitch to go from 2nd to 3rd with the TKO....

KEISLER

12-24-2010, 09:23 AM

I have an LS1 engine, but no tranny. How would this tranny compare against a factory T56? I got a quote on a T56 magnum, but it's a bit much for my 400 hp engine (cost and power rating). Is there a kit for putting this behind an LS1 in at 1st gen?

The RS is more compact than the TKO, and way smaller than T56. The top is rounded, which naturally fits our muscle cars' tunnels better. The overall length is nearly the same as TKO. The shift quality is slightly better than T56 only because it has less rotating inertia so the synchros can speed match the gears quicker, and the shift rail system is much lighter in weight resulting in less effort to move the shifter fork.

Our solution for LS is the same as before: Keisler 621 bell for LS + transmission. You can use your original mechanical linkage or upgrade to hydraulic - same bellhousing either way. Same transmission either way. The RS is very easy to upgrade to hydraulic because you can remove the front bearing retainer / slider from the RS with 4 bolts, and replace with the hydraulic front bearing retainer - with no resealing of the front bearing retainer and no reshimming of the transmission's mainshaft. This is important because changing the front bearing retainer on the TKO requires that for our hydraulic bearing retainer to be installed.

We sell a variation of the Keisler 621 HD bell that works for both LS, Vortec, and traditional SBC and BBC engines. This allows you a lot of flexibility.

Vegas69

12-24-2010, 09:23 AM

Thanks Albert, I just hate being the guinea pig. I've been there done that a few times. I'm not happy with the shift quality of my 600 either. We are a rare breed shifting big cube motors above 6500. I also have a problem with a notchy 2nd. Mine is getting swapped, just not sure to what. This is an option, I just want to make sure it's been durability tested. The 600 seems pretty bullet proof and can be modified to shift better.

KEISLER

12-24-2010, 09:28 AM

KEISLER

12-24-2010, 09:33 AM

I got pricing on both the whole kit and just the trans, but I don't think they're really advertising it anywhere. Better contact them directly.
That's right. We don't have all of the kits up on the web site yet, but some of the the manual-to-manual versions have been in the store (http://keislerauto.com/store.html).

In the Advertiser's section we'll post some pricing information soon. In the meantime, just drop us an email ([email protected]).

KEISLER

12-24-2010, 09:47 AM

I heard that they are not on the best of terms with Tremec, but could be just a rumor. Hence why they advertise all the issues with the TKO unit...

Strtlegal,
We have nothing to hide about our relationship with Tremec. You can read about it here (http://www.facebook.com/pages/Keisler-Engineering/224383866884?v=app_2373072738&ref=ts#!/topic.php?uid=224383866884&topic=18056). The bottom line is this: Keisler Engineering and our friends are working to provide more solutions to the marketplace to move it forward. When I started Keisler Engineering 19 years ago, we did electrical components for muscle cars, then licensed trim parts, then moved into transmissions/drivetrain in the latter part of the 90s. I am passionate about our cars and the aftermarket, and continue to evolve our product. What you are seeing now is the next step in an evolution that started in Nov 2005. It will continue to evolve, as our newsletter mentions.

While we could have done much more with the TKO, it wasn't our destiny to go down that road, as you can understand from the link above. Don't look back and better days are ahead for all of us! :)

KEISLER

12-24-2010, 10:00 AM

KEISLER

12-24-2010, 10:32 AM

How thoroughly have these been tested?

Hi Todd,

The RS product line comes from the Borg Warner T-45, of which over a quarter million units were sold from 1996-2001 to Ford Mustang GT & Cobra. The T-45 was basically a rollup of the best features of T56 and T5 into one compact design, intended to be used for performance cars. It added one key piece of advanced technology which proved to be its achilles heel - the Double Disconnect Reverse.

The Double Disconnect Reverse (DDR)
The DDR removed the rotating inertia of the reverse triad gears, allowing for less noise, easier shift effort, and less drag. The DDR system employed a simese shift fork design which was to disengage/engage reverse gears simulataneously. The problem came about when they would not deflect and not operate in unison, resulting in gear grind going into reverse. This gear grind was the clutch gear teeth clashing with the synchro sleeve, and it would round the teeth off making it difficult to then get into gear. The shift lever would pop out of gear in reverse, requiring the driver to hold the lever handle in place while backing up. What a pain in the @$$. Warranty claims on the T-45 for the DDR allowed Tremec to sell its 3650 multi-rail trans to Ford, and the 2001-1/2 - 2010 models had the 3650 until it was dropped completely in favor of the Getrag unit found in current 2011 Mustang GT.

Our solution to fixing the DDR was to eliminate it and return to the single disconnect system (like T56, T5). Our chief design engineer and manual transmission guru, D. McCord - who was the principle design engineer of the T56 at Borg Warner back in the late 80s/early 90s - performed all of the design changes to make the Keisler T45R & T45RS robust. We have been selling them since 2007 with great results. We recently added additional testing capabilities to our Test Stand (http://keislertv.com/video/10158) which allowed us to further improve the quality control of these units.

When Borg Warner designed the original gear designs of T5, T56 and T45, it was somewhat of a black art. Now, thanks to advanced analytics and modeling software, the gear designs are improved from the original. Furthermore, use of SAE9310 chrome-nickel-moly alloy steel provides a much stronger product than what was originally used (SAE8620). For example, we test the RS500 and RS600 input shaft to 5,000 LB-FT with no failure! In comparison, the RS400 input tests out around 2,000 before it twists. All testing is done using UL Certified & Calibrated lab equipment. (How many aftermarket transmission companies serving our market have that in their lab?)

We stand behind every RS product with a 3 year blanket warranty.

Hope this helps!

Shafi
PS - thanks again for the hook-up with Joe in Vegas last year!

Mr Nick

12-24-2010, 10:43 AM

Mr Nick,

About the TKO shortcomings, this is nothing new. It is a good product, or I wouldn't have sold 13,000 of them. But, its design architecture - based on their light duty truck/van product - limits its abilities to be a class leading product. It would need to be completely redesigned to incorporate the changes required to make it shift well, package well, etc. So, accept it for what it is. It still had good merits and is better than no overdrive at all.

100% understandable, I almost did a TKO swap last year. Glad I didn't... I was not aware something better was in the future then, timing was on my side for once! :)

Email sent for quote, thanks for bringing a new product to the market.

Nick

dipren443

12-24-2010, 10:46 AM

100% understandable, I almost did a TKO swap last year. Glad I didn't... I was not aware something better was in the future then, timing was on my side for once! :)

Email sent for quote, thanks for bringing a new product to the market.

Nick

GRRR, I would have preferred this to my TKO... Oh well. Not going back now, at least not until I blow up my TKO.

razor66

12-24-2010, 01:38 PM

Thank you very much for posting this information from our newsletter here (http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs041/1102067423311/archive/1102562109033.html). That took some time and effort and it is much appreciated. We'll be sure to put your name on #1 of the Road Race RS600!

Shafi Keisler

No problem at all. Looking forward to putting the road race RS600 to really good use next year. :)

Merry Christmas Everyone at Pro-Touring Forum...... razor66

Vegas69

12-24-2010, 02:27 PM

I have to say that I'm very interested. I'll give you guys a call soon.

go-fish

12-25-2010, 04:46 PM

I have a Perfect Fit Tremec kit in my 70 Cuda. What will be my parts inventory. Will I need a whole new kit, just a box, or somewhere in between?

DarkoNova

12-25-2010, 10:23 PM

I have a Perfect Fit Tremec kit in my 70 Cuda. What will be my parts inventory. Will I need a whole new kit, just a box, or somewhere in between?

This. More details on the TKO trade-in program?

ron c

12-26-2010, 06:37 AM

i been fitting t-45 rs in my 1978 nova, wish i had this transmission 2 years ago, only hole i had to cut was for shifter, my 79 nova will be getting one to, thnaks to shafi and all the guys at keisler

KEISLER

12-27-2010, 08:06 AM

I have a Perfect Fit Tremec kit in my 70 Cuda. What will be my parts inventory. Will I need a whole new kit, just a box, or somewhere in between?

Hi GoFish & co,

We don't have the ebody design released yet, so I can't speak to that quite yet. The trade in program as it stands is designed to replace the following items:
1) transmission with shifter mechanism (not handle or knob)
2) crossmember
3) modify your existing Keisler driveshaft, and it ships backk to you with the RS kit (or you can have it modified locally if you don't want to ship it back)

Liken the trade in program to anything else you would trade in (like a car). There needs to be enough margin for us to freshen up the unit and resell it as a refurbished unit or like new unit at a discount off of new price. We want the program to be attractive to those of you that have already comitted to supporting us.

If you are interested, please send us a Request for Quote (http://keislerauto.com/request-a-quote.html) including your name the unit was sold under, and we'll look at the original specs and determine a trade in price.

Shafi Keisler

KEISLER

12-27-2010, 08:55 AM

HELLCAMINO

12-28-2010, 01:38 AM

You guys will be getting a call from me soon.

strtlegal

12-28-2010, 06:54 AM

So the exhange program is for people that have purchased their TKO from you guys only? This trans does sound like a very nice setup, I do believe the more options the better..

KEISLER

12-28-2010, 03:10 PM

So the exhange program is for people that have purchased their TKO from you guys only? This trans does sound like a very nice setup, I do believe the more options the better..

Great question - I was wondering when someone would ask that. We are open to trading in TKO units sold by other distributors. We don't need their kit parts - just the trans.

Shafi Keisler

strtlegal

12-28-2010, 03:34 PM

KEISLER

12-28-2010, 06:44 PM

So just to be clear, one with lets say an LS motor can keep the flywheel, clutch and bell housing and just send back the trans, crossmember and driveshaft correct?

I'm just trying to learn how it works so I can speak intelligently about it at car shows and such. If a person can send in their old units and keep the rest of there "kit" parts it would be invaluable. imho..

Hi srtlegal,

These are very good questions. If the TKO kit came from Keisler, then yes, send back the trans, crossmember and driveshaft. If the TKO kit came from some other source, then only send the trans.

The RS for Chevy & Buick/Olds/Pontiac directly bolts to Muncie/BorgWarner 4-speed bellhousings, including our reproduction super duty 621 bellhousing.

The RS for Ford directly bolts to Ford 4-speed bellhousings, and toploader style 5-speed bellhousings.

The RS for Mopar bolts to the Keisler modified factory bells, or directly to Keisler new bellhousings. (In Q2/2011, we will have a new main case for the entire lineup that will have the A833 Mopar pattern for direct bolt-up to factory bellhousing.

The RS for AMC bolts to the conversion bell.

Thanks for the good questions. Keep them coming....

Shafi Keisler

keith1365

12-28-2010, 07:40 PM

For those of us less well healed, what will be happening to all the traded in TKO? Rebuilt and resold I assume. Any idea on prices for used TKO600?

tazzz25906112

12-28-2010, 07:52 PM

I have to say that I'm very interested. I'll give you guys a call soon.

You're gonna love the way it shifts Todd,,,, So smooth bud. You going to the Barrette Jackson in Jan??? Drop me a call or a note when you get a chance man....

go-fish

12-29-2010, 12:23 AM

Yep, I'm pretty much on this deal. I have a TKO kit from Keisler and have been treated well. I would like to send in my bellhousing as well as all the other stuff required for trade in. My shatter proof bell hangs way too low and is very heavy so my "trade in" is looking like I will be trading everything in. I would also like to go to the A-833 Mopar bolt pattern and aluminum bell. Probably save 75 lbs and 2.75" of ground clearance.
Also, I had Modular Mustang Racing in Oxnard, CA beef up the tranny before I ever even installed it so I have more in it than just the Keisler price. I would like to get into the new RS for as little as possible, wonder how that'll work out?

KEISLER

12-29-2010, 02:03 PM

For those of us less well healed, what will be happening to all the traded in TKO? Rebuilt and resold I assume. Any idea on prices for used TKO600?
PM or email me - we can hook you up. We have TKO trade-ins coming from all models we sell.

KEISLER

12-29-2010, 03:59 PM

DarrenM

12-29-2010, 05:59 PM

Where do you expect pricing to be relative to the TKO600 perfect fit kits? I'll be doing a conversion on either an E or B body (mopar). Gene had already given me a quote for the TKO/A41 (back in early 09). I haven't purchased because of what some were saying about the pretty decent surgery required on the floors. Quote 81142RM & 16514JK (this one is probably the direction I'll take, but on a 70 instead of the 73 which I've sold).

I'm interested in an updated quote with the better fit RS600. It's a automatic to 5 speed conversion project, so I'll need the full kit.

Thanks
Darren

Well, you know being a fan of Mopar muscle cars, I have a personal obligation there.

Mopar B-body
The RS PerfectFit turned out to be stellar improvement over our TKO PerfectFit design. When installed, original driveline angle was achieved with NO CUTTING of the tunnel as previously required with TKO. Only the small rectangular hole for the shifter is needed. WAY better fit!

Mopar A-body
We have a design underway, and a '68 Barracuda 340 in the shop now. In several more weeks, I should have an update.

Mopar E-body
The RS PerfectFit tailhousing is provisioned for Mopar E (Cuda/Challenger), and we will have an update on its release date sometime next month.

We'll post first updates on Facebook (Keisler Engineering) as they develop.

Shafi Keisler

keith1365

12-29-2010, 06:54 PM

pm sent

DarkoNova

12-29-2010, 07:01 PM

Great question - I was wondering when someone would ask that. We are open to trading in TKO units sold by other distributors. We don't need their kit parts - just the trans.

Shafi Keisler

Oh snap, I might have to call you tomorrow, then. I got my kit from CC5S, but if you guys will still take it, that's friggin awesome. PM sent!

KEISLER

12-29-2010, 07:09 PM

Where do you expect pricing to be relative to the TKO600 perfect fit kits? I'll be doing a conversion on either an E or B body (mopar). Gene had already given me a quote for the TKO/A41 (back in early 09). I haven't purchased because of what some were saying about the pretty decent surgery required on the floors. Quote 81142RM & 16514JK (this one is probably the direction I'll take, but on a 70 instead of the 73 which I've sold).

I'm interested in an updated quote with the better fit RS600. It's a automatic to 5 speed conversion project, so I'll need the full kit.

Thanks
Darren

Hi Darren,

We'll get caught up and get you a quote. But for reference, all RS 5-Speed pricing is as follows:
RS400 (400 torque, standard ratio) Complete PerfectFit Kit $2295
RS500 (500 torque, standard ratio) Complete PerfectFit Kit $2595
RS400 (600 torque, close ratio) Complete PerfectFit Kit $2995

Bare units start at only $1395. A PRO SHIFTER with internal stops, tunable internal spring bias, and other class leading feaures is STANDARD with EVERY transmission.

Thanks again, and we'll be in touch soon.

HELLCAMINO

12-30-2010, 01:14 AM

If bare units start at $1395, I assume that is the RS400? How much for the bare unit RS600? I just need the trans and shifter, the rest I already have.

oldzzy

12-30-2010, 06:49 AM

RS500 (500 torque, standard ratio) Complete PerfectFit Kit $2595

I am still waiting for my itemized quote, but the quick one i got was A LOT more than this.

Steelrat

01-01-2011, 08:49 PM

MJRIBEIRO

01-04-2011, 06:11 PM

Shafi - How well does the shifter line up in a stock console for a '67 Chevelle? Need a test bed?

Satatic

01-04-2011, 06:28 PM

donaz

01-05-2011, 09:59 AM

According to what I was just informed by Keisler, they do not supply a crossmember for this trans that fits a second gen Camaro but one will be coming soon. Anybody have any input on this? Looking to install one of these in a 71 Z28 and would like to know about the crossmember issue.

KEISLER

01-05-2011, 04:17 PM

If bare units start at $1395, I assume that is the RS400? How much for the bare unit RS600? I just need the trans and shifter, the rest I already have.

The $1395 price is for a RS400, correcct. The RS600 PerfectFit is $2095.

KEISLER

01-05-2011, 04:19 PM

I am still waiting for my itemized quote, but the quick one i got was A LOT more than this.

PM me with your contact information and I will update the quote and send to you.

KEISLER

01-05-2011, 04:22 PM

Great news Shafi!
I have been wanting a 5 spd for my 70 Nova. Currently have a 700R4. The RS400 (600 torque, close ratio) Complete PerfectFit Kit for $2995 is more affordable than the TKO conversion kit I was looking at, and no tunnel mods. Us nova guys over at Steves Nova site are all looking forward to getting some of these in our Nova's.
I hope these turn out to be good units and sales are strong, this may provide even better deals in the future for us that are challenged with the price tag on 5 spd conversions.
Shaun

Shaun,
There are 2 ways to drop cost out of the kit: 1) delete the crossmember for $100 reduction, 2) delete the driveshaft, but include the slip yoke for $100 reduction. Everything else you should get. When requesting this combination, ask for the RSxxx Essentials Kit for Year Make Body.

KEISLER

01-05-2011, 04:23 PM

Shafi - How well does the shifter line up in a stock console for a '67 Chevelle? Need a test bed?

Perfect Shifter alignment. NO CUTTING.

TEST BED? Yes, bring it on down we are looking for as many installs for photo/video documentation as possible.

KEISLER

01-05-2011, 04:27 PM

What if you dont know what your engine will make, does the trans have to be matched up? Is it just a cost issue or would there be a down side to going with the strongest if you might not make that much torque?

You can estimate the torque and power based on elapsed time on 1/8mi or 1/4mi. A rough rule of thumb:
RS400 - factory small blocks, and big blocks 400ci or less
RS500 - hot small blocks, and factory big blocks 455 or less
RS600 - small and big blocks putting out over 500HP and 500TORQUE, diff ratio above 3.73 for small blocks, diff ratio above 3.55 for big blocks

KEISLER

01-05-2011, 04:28 PM

oldzzy

01-05-2011, 06:30 PM

PM me with your contact information and I will update the quote and send to you.

pm sent

USAFquez

01-05-2011, 08:41 PM

AMC Racer

01-06-2011, 09:53 AM

The WidowMaker

01-06-2011, 11:05 AM

im interested as well in what the trade in value of a new but mocked up tko600 would be. also, can we list the price of a bare rs600?

Satatic

01-06-2011, 11:17 AM

You can estimate the torque and power based on elapsed time on 1/8mi or 1/4mi. A rough rule of thumb:
RS400 - factory small blocks, and big blocks 400ci or less
RS500 - hot small blocks, and factory big blocks 455 or less
RS600 - small and big blocks putting out over 500HP and 500TORQUE, diff ratio above 3.73 for small blocks, diff ratio above 3.55 for big blocks

I get what you are saying but what I am getting at is I will be useing a plain 454 out of a truck with heads at least, so it probably wont put out at first. 4.10 rear end. But in years I will hope it can make that 500/500 mark. Is it going to kill the performance if I am at like 300 hp and an RS600?

USAFquez

01-06-2011, 01:18 PM

Is it going to kill the performance if I am at like 300 hp and an RS600?

Same question....

Nothingface5384

01-06-2011, 02:21 PM

no i doubt it...the transmission doesnt take more hp to turn cause it happens to be built for more torque/hp..
just internal parts are better/stronger
the overal design stays the same so it'll have the same hp loss as the lesser built version
ie..wheather its a viper t-56 or one out of an ls camaro, they're going to take the same power to turn

Ron.in.SoCal

01-06-2011, 04:21 PM

gac7773

01-07-2011, 06:59 AM

^ All respect, is that 100% true? I'm no physicist, but wouldn't upgraded/thicker gear faces create more parasitic loss, even just a little bit? I would think more rotating mass would require more grunt, but it may be a relatively small loss...

It is true it actually has to do with weight difference. The LS and the Viper T56 weighed about the same. So parasitic loss would be nominal. Auto matics take more power to turn because they are heavier. Typical automatic eats 20-25% of your flywheel Hp Vs 10-15 with a manual.

Vegas69

01-07-2011, 07:59 AM

It is true it actually has to do with weight difference. The LS and the Viper T56 weighed about the same. So parasitic loss would be nominal. Auto matics take more power to turn because they are heavier. Typical automatic eats 20-25% of your flywheel Hp Vs 10-15 with a manual.

Have to disagree with you. Automatics rob power due to the torque converter slipping and internal clutch packs.

AMC Racer

01-07-2011, 09:19 AM

Depends on a bunch of factors, but guess there's very little difference in hp loss among the different RS series transmissions ... and likely somewhat less loss than TKO or T56.

YancyJohns

01-07-2011, 09:26 AM

Automatics rob power due to the torque converter slipping and internal clutch packs.
Correct, I know I gained more HP and torque with the new RS600 over the TCI automatic I had before!

gac7773

01-07-2011, 09:46 AM

Have to disagree with you. Automatics rob power due to the torque converter slipping and internal clutch packs.

So you saying that weight has nothing to due with it?

Vegas69

01-07-2011, 10:28 AM

Very little vs. slippage.

USAFquez

01-07-2011, 02:13 PM

Am I going to have to dish out more money to go with a trans that would have cost me less to begin with? Or are you guys doing something similar to what Best Buy and Orbitz does where they "send you a cash refund for the difference" if the price goes done during a certain period.

anything?

KEISLER

01-10-2011, 10:22 AM

im interested as well in what the trade in value of a new but mocked up tko600 would be. also, can we list the price of a bare rs600?
Tim,
The RS600 PerfectFit is $2395. If you can use the factory 20inch shifter position of the T45, then we can do that model for $2195.
A new TKO would get between $9000-1500, depending on model, where it came from, and if it is a Keisler PerfectFit.

The driveshaft will need to be shortened 7/8inch, we can do this for $100, incl new weld yoke, rebalance.

KEISLER

01-10-2011, 10:31 AM

I get what you are saying but what I am getting at is I will be useing a plain 454 out of a truck with heads at least, so it probably wont put out at first. 4.10 rear end. But in years I will hope it can make that 500/500 mark. Is it going to kill the performance if I am at like 300 hp and an RS600?

The performance will be the same from gears 2-5. It is just the first ratio difference, which affects torque multiplication, and the traveling speed at which you shift out of first into second.

The higher numeric first gear (ex 3.37 versus 2.80) means:
1) more torque at the rear wheels in first
2) slower wheel rpm for any given engine rpm means the vehicle *may* not accelerate as fast
3) slower MPH when shifting to 2nd
4) larger drop in RPM.

Most V8 engines make so much torque that the RPM dip isn't the big issue. The bigger issue is usually: 1) too much torque (item 1), and 2) slower vehicle speed when shifting out of first (item 3)

- Shafi

KEISLER

01-10-2011, 10:38 AM

I just sent a request for a quote on the site, but I'm so excited about this transmission I couldn't resist but to ask on here, incase others have the same question. I literally JUST installed my TKO600 complete kit 3 months ago that I ordered from Keisler back in June or July, can't remember. It's barely even broken in with less than 400 miles on it since it's only a weekend driver. I guess my question would be, is the trade-in program determined by a case-by-case basis or is the swap price a pre-determined amount? It looks like a whole $1000 cheaper to go with the RS600, since I payed a little over $4k for my TKO600. Am I going to have to dish out more money to go with a trans that would have cost me less to begin with? Or are you guys doing something similar to what Best Buy and Orbitz does where they "send you a cash refund for the difference" if the price goes done during a certain period. I may have exaggerated these situations a bit but I hope you understand what I'm asking, thanks.

Hi USAFquez,

OK, I understand you are an existing Keisler customer, which basically equates to the tradein having a higher value because it is built to our standards. Past that, the trade in value will depend on which TKO model (yours is TKO600), and is it a PerfectFit model, a ClassicFit model, or a StandardFit model. To answer this question, you need to check your paperwork. The quickest answer is to email us, but we are still catching up on requests to order, and quote requests. PM me your name under which the order was placed, and I will get you a firm number.

- Shafi Keisler

KEISLER

01-10-2011, 10:49 AM

Since 2-3 and 3-4 still use a single cone synchro, is the synchro friction material better than TKO to more quickly match gear speed to shaft speed or do the smaller, lighter gears or gated shifter or the single rail vs. multi-rail mechanism or just the overall arrangement make the high rpm shifting better? Would a shifter like the one you've made for T45 help TKO, i.e. any chance of making a similar shifter for TKO?
Thanks!

Duane,

As I understand it, the TKO is designed from the Tremec multi-rail truck&van product line which dates back to the 1960s. Accordingly, the synchro design adapts that design. Little changes here and there can help the TKO, and that is what we do at an added cost. We modify the TKO gears to help it shift better. Our new PerfectFit shifter has the improved bias return design AND solid stops, standard.

We have NO PLANS to further invest in the Tremec product - TKO, T56, Magnum. We will sell Tremec products as long as there is a demand, and with our trade in program we can offer some good pricing on warranteed unit. And we will service ALL of our customers which we sold more than 13,000 Tremec units, with the caveat that there are parts supply. Already, the early TKO models (pre TKO500/600) have been obsoleted with no spare parts by Tremec (yeah ... smart move).

AM.MSCL

02-11-2011, 07:26 AM

A lot of you guys must be ordering this trans, Just talked to Jeff about order to shipping time, If ordered today it would arrive late April. Jeff said they have a stack of orders they are working on!

Mr Nick

02-11-2011, 09:35 PM

wheelsup351

02-27-2011, 07:02 PM

PM or email me - we can hook you up. We have TKO trade-ins coming from all models we sell.

i sent you an email. thanks.

Kenova

03-03-2011, 07:58 PM

Regarding the Road Race 5th gear, I am targeting this for the second quarter of next year.
Are you still on target for release of the Road Race 5th gear?

Ken

Kenova

03-27-2011, 06:38 PM

A bump for an update on the Road Race Ratio ( .80? )

Ken

G-RO

03-27-2011, 08:31 PM

I ordered an RS600 about a week ago. Now I'm waiting until mid to late May. Anyone get one yet? If so how do they compare to the TKO?

bbcc

04-13-2011, 05:23 PM

I ordered an RS600 about a week ago. Now I'm waiting until mid to late May. Anyone get one yet? If so how do they compare to the TKO?

I ordered during the last week of December. Estimated shipping is the end of this month, and I'll be sure to update when it arrives. I know how amped i am to recieve this trans, and I'll give the thread an update when she rolls in!

orbital1970goat

04-15-2011, 12:52 PM

Sent you an email Shafi.

Thanks,
Lyle

Ron Fox

04-19-2011, 06:43 AM

Does anyone have the RS600 installed yet?

Mr Nick

04-21-2011, 03:44 AM

I think just the first few demo/prototypes have been installed and on the road. From my understanding, none of the RS600's for normal customers have shipped yet. (they should have been by now...) I emailed Keisler last week for an update and have not received a reply. Wonderful.

rohrt

04-21-2011, 01:08 PM

I thought it was in this thread somewhere but can anyone tell me what is in the kit? Just wondering how much more money would need to spent above the kit price.
clutch?
Flywheel?
Pedals?
Drive shaft?
hydraulic clutch mechanism?
cross member?
Bell housing?

Mr Nick

04-24-2011, 07:02 PM

I'm in for more then $4k for the complete kit (auto to manual). I upgraded to hydraulic clutch kit and higher rated clutch, 600hp/600ft lbs I believe. Those of course added to the price.

Mr Nick

04-24-2011, 07:03 PM

Probably best to call them Good luck to you!

Not always easy for me to call from work. I would have thought the email would have received a reply within a day or two anyway. Guess I'll call after hours and leave a message.

Anchor

04-25-2011, 01:02 AM

You'll have to call i think guys, i called from australia and once i got onto chris the new sales guy i had email quotes within 10 minutes. And he's returned emails ever since. The wait if ordered now is around July i think :(

rohrt

04-25-2011, 06:08 AM

I'm in for more then $4k for the complete kit (auto to manual). I upgraded to hydraulic clutch kit and higher rated clutch, 600hp/600ft lbs I believe. Those of course added to the price.

I assume you were pricing out the RS600? Then a little more then a $1000 over the PerfectFit price of $2995. That doesn't seem to out of line. I assume that would be for:
clutch?
Flywheel?
Pedals?
hydraulic clutch mechanism?
Bell housing?

I hope that would be a complete kit nothing else to buy.

Thanks for posting.

Mr Nick

04-26-2011, 04:53 PM

I assume you were pricing out the RS600? Then a little more then a $1000 over the PerfectFit price of $2995. That doesn't seem to out of line. I assume that would be for:
clutch?
Flywheel?
Pedals?
hydraulic clutch mechanism?
Bell housing?

I hope that would be a complete kit nothing else to buy.

Thanks for posting.

Yes to everything:
clutch
Flywheel
Pedals
hydraulic clutch mechanism
Bell housing

Also: bolts, hardware, warranty, shift lever & knob.

bbcc

04-29-2011, 04:13 PM

Got an update today on the RS600. Looks like first week of June now......

AM.MSCL

04-29-2011, 07:35 PM

I got a promotional email from Keisler today saying the RS transmissions are shipping in mass numbers now so get yours order today.
When my actual ordered one is going to be shipped I have no idea.

Roadrage David

05-03-2011, 01:51 AM

Shame they dont ore arend able to make them stronger then 600lbs torque..

wmhjr

05-03-2011, 06:52 AM

Yes to everything:
clutch
Flywheel
Pedals
hydraulic clutch mechanism
Bell housing

Also: bolts, hardware, warranty, shift lever & knob.

Keep in mind one thing. The Keisler kit is not exactly the same as "OEM" for manual clutches. Here is specifically what I mean.

On a '68+ GM A-body, the frames are pre-drilled and tapped for a bolt on bell crank (z-bar) tab (the tab that holds the outside ball stud which goes into the outside of the z-bar). The actual tab is readily available all over the place, ready to bolt right on. The Keisler kit shipps a generic "weld-on" tab which is not the same geometric shape, nor is it ready to bolt on. It must be welded on.

One might think it would be easy to just pick up the correct "OEM" bolt-on tab, but there is another issue. The actual z-bar provided by Keisler is a non-OEM geometry, and will not fit if you use the bolt-on tab. You need to purchase the correct z-bar to do this.

I'm not criticizing Keisler or the kit - just helping people out so you know. Last night I more or less inventoried and went through the installation of a kit with a friend who has at this point received everything but the tranny from Keisler. I should say, "walked through" the installation. We held things in place, etc but did not actually install anything.

If you have a 1st Gen A-body, it doesn't matter as the tab is weld-on from the factory.

I'll also mention that I thought the shift lever and knob was a little gaudy. The Keisler name is all over the darned thing. Plasticy stick on emblem up both sides of the shifter, and printed all over the knob.

Beyond that, it's a Sachs clutch. The bell housing looked fine if you don't need a scattershield.

JMiller70

05-07-2011, 09:13 PM

Quick question regarding clutches, hoping to not sound too inept in the process. I currently run a Muncie with a 10.5 10 spline (I think) clutch. Will the RS 400 bolt up directly without the need to change out the clutch?

Also, looking for a little clarification on how the crossmember mounting on the Essentials kit. It says it comes with an Isolator but is the gusseted perch still needed from the perfectfit? Any way to get the trans in with no welding in a 70 A-body?

Was hoping to get some answers from Keisler, but they've been a little slow in the quote request process.

Thanks, any help is much appreciated.

Mkelcy

05-07-2011, 09:20 PM

Keep in mind one thing. The Keisler kit is not exactly the same as "OEM" for manual clutches. Here is specifically what I mean.

Beyond that, it's a Sachs clutch. The bell housing looked fine if you don't need a scattershield.

Although modern flywheels and pressure plates rarely let go, I'm not trusting my ankles/feet/lower legs that they won't, particularly they way we drive our cars. Hydroformed steel for me, thanks.

TBART70

05-08-2011, 04:02 AM

wmhjr

05-08-2011, 07:24 PM

Although modern flywheels and pressure plates rarely let go, I'm not trusting my ankles/feet/lower legs that they won't, particularly they way we drive our cars. Hydroformed steel for me, thanks.

Oh, don't misunderstand. I'm running a Quicktime RM8070 SFI scattershield myself. But everyone isn't the same. I have a buddy putting one in that has a pretty mild 327 in his '72 chevelle. He won't be hammering on that car so much, and the bell housing is probably OK for that.

wmhjr

05-08-2011, 07:25 PM

Also, the RS is in fact a 26 spline.

JMiller70

05-08-2011, 08:37 PM

RS-400 looks to be a 10 spline, thats the only reason I ask, I just am unsure about the diameter on the muncie vs the RS. I have a fairly fresh Hayes in right now and was hoping to not have to take off the housing for the install and drop an extra 300 on a clutch and resurface, but may be forced to.

wmhjr

05-09-2011, 01:15 PM

Can't say about the RS400. Buddy ordered the RS600 setup, and has already received the 26 spline clutch and pressure plate from Keisler. I had them in my hands.

Mr Nick

05-10-2011, 12:29 PM

Got an update today on the RS600. Looks like first week of June now......

When did you order?

I ordered Jan 31st and just called today and was told late July. I was originally told end of March - early April, so I went ahead and sold my auto trans set up. Now I have a fresh engine and car is ready to go after 5 years, and no transmission. Half a summer of enjoying my car ruined. I'm not one to bitch and moan, but this is BS.

AMC Racer

05-10-2011, 01:33 PM

Understanding is the RS400 uses the stock T45 1 1/16" x 10 spline input shaft (hence the lower torque rating). Muncie is likely 1 1/8" x 10. Better to go with the 1 1/8" x 26 if upgrading.

wmhjr

05-10-2011, 08:06 PM

Well, my buddy got the RS400. I thought it was the RS600 he ordered but I found out today it's the RS400. And the clutch they shipped him is the 26 spline....

bbcc

05-18-2011, 05:00 PM

When did you order?

I ordered Jan 31st and just called today and was told late July. I was originally told end of March - early April, so I went ahead and sold my auto trans set up. Now I have a fresh engine and car is ready to go after 5 years, and no transmission. Half a summer of enjoying my car ruined. I'm not one to bitch and moan, but this is BS.

I ordered on December 28. I'm in the same boat. Thrashed all winter to get the truck ready to tear beginning of may....missed that boat. This stuff happens and i definitely don't blame keisler. I'm just looking forward to getting the trans so i can get to all the other areas that will follow....drive shaft, cross-member, big hole in the floor haha....

go-fish

05-18-2011, 05:30 PM

When did you order?

I ordered Jan 31st and just called today and was told late July. I was originally told end of March - early April, so I went ahead and sold my auto trans set up. Now I have a fresh engine and car is ready to go after 5 years, and no transmission. Half a summer of enjoying my car ruined. I'm not one to bitch and moan, but this is BS.

Keep in mind that this is new product and I'm sure that you want the best product they can possibly give you. If they shipped you a transmission at the end of March and it broke you would be complaining about that. So, get it on time with less refinement or get it when it's perfected?
Understand that a company has to drum up a product months before it is ready for market, they can't always make the deadlines when it is a completely new product because you often "find" things in the last stages of development which pushes back the release date.

bbcc

05-18-2011, 08:42 PM

You said it right Johnny. I know when I push a new product out the door I like to have confidence in it's abilities, and I want the end user to feel sure that the product is going to perform flawlessly in service. Keisler is being diligent with this trans, and I'm sure it won't upset when they are released onto the streets and tracks.

Mr Nick

05-19-2011, 03:18 AM

I understand completely that unexpected things come up that cause delays. I've been in the service industry in one form or another since I was 14 years old, including 5 years of dreaded retail (Circuit City) while in school. One thing you never do is over-promise and underachieve.

I placed my order on the phone with Shafi himself, and was told I would receive it end of March - early April. That's what I'm upset about. Had I been told I would be waiting till July (or later...) I would have still ordered it, kept my 200-4R trans so I could drive the car while waiting, and been totally content about the situation. So I hope you see why I'm upset? No slander or bashing from me toward Shafi or the crew at KE, and I do appreciate their hard work in bringing a new transmission to market. I just wish their problem didn't become my problem.

Roberts68

05-19-2011, 04:20 AM

I realize the only thing that will help is to have parts show up for you guys that are awaiting delivery but I also think that some public feedback from Keisler would be beneficial.

Granted, they may be feverishly busy with the same duties that put said parts out their doors on the way to yours.

Still, I guess what I would like to see is some public assurances similar to they availability they had when promoting the product pre-order.

I had enough in my project fund awhile back to order one, but I have spread it out over various smaller items along the way and kept busy. If I had blown the wad on the trans conversion and was sitting here waiting I'd have to be committed... in a white coat with buckles on the end of the sleeves I am afraid.

wmhjr

05-19-2011, 04:35 AM

I agree with many of the above comments. I understand that sometimes things take longer than expected, and that quality takes time. However, I also recognize that Keisler made a pretty big splash with this product announcement and elected to both announce and take orders when they did, providing potential customers with tentative delivery dates. This likely took sales away from the TKO or T56 Magnums. You can't have it both ways. By announcing when they did, it resulted in some people deciding to get an RS versus a TKO. If there was not firm belief that the tranny would be shipping, then it should not have been announced or at the very least, no orders should have been taken. If there WAS a strong belief (with substantiating data such as completed tests, first articles and demos - not just a project plan) then there ought to be far more communication explaining exactly what the issues are. I have a good friend who has his Chevelle sitting up on jack stands with no tranny in it, and with all the clutch, bell housing, etc all laid out reading to install. For a LONG time. And at this point with no real guess as to when he can expect a tranny. I'm sorry, but for something like this, I just find it unacceptable - and I won't buy giving them a "free pass" in the name of quality.

Windycity1

05-19-2011, 05:39 AM

wmhjr

05-19-2011, 06:00 AM

For the record I shift my TKO600 from 2nd to 3rd above 6000rpm no problem! Can you say operator error.

You can but you would be totally incorrect. One trans that shifts well under high load does not mean there is not an issue.

jknight16

05-19-2011, 08:18 AM

You can but you would be totally incorrect. One trans that shifts well under high load does not mean there is not an issue.

There's more than one out there, just sayin.....

wmhjr

05-19-2011, 09:27 AM

There's more than one out there, just sayin.....

And there is more than one out there that have issues. Just sayin. Additionally Liberty seems to think there are issues.

Roberts68

05-19-2011, 09:59 AM

I know it is a scary thing to have excess overhead and it is difficult to raise capital in this economy and all that, especially after all the R&D and what have you...

However,
I think this would have been handled much better if they had stockpiled a warehouse full of RS-4,5 and 600's in respectable quantities prior to accepting orders. Maybe a couple rows of pallet racking? One row? A shelf even?

A batch of them installed and happy customers spouting off about how friggin' great they are has to be better for additional sales than people with righteous complaints telling about broken promises.

Perhaps a report on how many have been shipped to meet initial demand would be a good rebuttal.

jknight16

05-19-2011, 10:11 AM

And there is more than one out there that have issues. Just sayin. Additionally Liberty seems to think there are issues.

This entire industry revolves around making improvements to existing platforms, whatever they may be. The availability of a product to improve on something does not mean the original product is garbage. My only point is that, in my opinion, a TK0600 with whatever inherent flaws is better than a vaporware trans that leaves someone with a stalled project when the weather turns nice.

Flash68

05-19-2011, 10:31 AM

Amazing!!!! Keisler has sold all these TKO 600 transmissions to us only to turn their backs on former customers! Sad! For the record I shift my TKO600 from 2nd to 3rd above 6000rpm no problem! Can you say operator error.

Uhh no. Keisler themselves admit to the 6000+ rpm shifting problem with the TKO in their marketing of the RS600. Can you say "you got lucky"?

This entire industry revolves around making improvements to existing platforms, whatever they may be. The availability of a product to improve on something does not mean the original product is garbage. My only point is that, in my opinion, a TK0600 with whatever inherent flaws is better than a vaporware trans that leaves someone with a stalled project when the weather turns nice.

Very true. There are thousands of people out there with standard TKO's doing their daisy cruises on Sunday afternoons.... and that's fine. But for those of us who rev well over 6000rpm and shift hard, it can and is a common problem. That's why Liberty and American Powertrain, etc have modded versions and will upgrade your existing TKO for you.

I am so glad I did not order one of these RS transmissions back in December where they were quoting me ship dates of March.

Are they really extending their R&D time here with destructive testing, etc, or are they having problems getting the cores? Something ain't adding up.

Roberts68

05-19-2011, 10:52 AM

...Are they really extending their R&D time here with destructive testing, etc, or are they having problems getting the cores? Something ain't adding up.

Yep. And silence breeds speculation. Answers, when truthful and out in the open put minds somewhat at rest or at the least promote understanding or a degree of acceptance.

dontlifttoshift

05-19-2011, 01:22 PM

i don't think its cores. I have three t-45 (rs-400s now) here in the shop, the most recent were ordered in December and I recieved them first week of february....right on time.

I'm not saying its right, but most manufacturers advertise a product before it is to production. I find it quite aggravating when they do that but many of them do. The real question is who takes their car apart when they don't have any parts?

Flash68

05-19-2011, 01:30 PM

Email from Keisler in late November to me:
---------------------------
Hi Dave,

We are now selling what will become the leading 5-speed for classic and muscle cars - the Keisler RS 5-Speed. If I got your quote and name right, we can save you an additional $300 over the price of our TKO600 Perfect Fit kit, and you'll get:
- better shift quality, clean shifts at 7000rpm; tko limited to 6000rpm on a good day
- you can't miss the 2-3 shift; it's impossible with the RS; you WILL miss the 2-3 shift with TKO
- better fit, much more tunnel clearance to get the perfect driveline angle
- complete, PerfectFit kit

We've extended the Black Friday sale a couple of days because we couldn't get back to all of the sales requests on Friday. Jump on board now and you'll be one of the first to have the new market leading 5-speed.

Best Regards,

---------------------------

A subsequent email said trans due to ship in February. :/

wmhjr

05-19-2011, 02:22 PM

This entire industry revolves around making improvements to existing platforms, whatever they may be. The availability of a product to improve on something does not mean the original product is garbage. My only point is that, in my opinion, a TK0600 with whatever inherent flaws is better than a vaporware trans that leaves someone with a stalled project when the weather turns nice.

Can you point out who exactly said that the TKO600 is garbage, because I'm sure not aware of anybody saying that. And I do not regret my purchase of a TKO600. As a matter of fact, if you look at my posts you'll see my thread about how much I enjoy the tranny and how much I appreciate it. However, that does not mean that it is not without its flaws - which DO include the 2-3 shift issue and which are NOT "operator error". You'll also note that I was not kind to Keisler in this thread, calling them on prepaturely taking orders if they weren't rock solid on shipping estimates.

jknight16

05-19-2011, 04:28 PM

Can you point out who exactly said that the TKO600 is garbage, because I'm sure not aware of anybody saying that. And I do not regret my purchase of a TKO600. As a matter of fact, if you look at my posts you'll see my thread about how much I enjoy the tranny and how much I appreciate it. However, that does not mean that it is not without its flaws - which DO include the 2-3 shift issue and which are NOT "operator error". You'll also note that I was not kind to Keisler in this thread, calling them on prepaturely taking orders if they weren't rock solid on shipping estimates.

Consider my statement merely a clarification of the issue for those that may be reading, not a counter-point. I haven't personally experienced the 2-3 shift issue that people refer to, but I don't doubt that it exists. As mentioned earlier, silence on the part of Kiesler is just going to fuel the discontent among those with orders placed.

Roberts68

05-19-2011, 06:16 PM

It isn't just discontent amongst the customers waiting on their orders, it also spreads to the customers who have not ordered yet, such as the one typing this sentence.

I was so excited to hear of this transmission even though I am sure it is more than I need. It is the Hot Rodder way to overbuild right?
All those years of watching Tim Allan as Tim Taylor taught me that much.

Besides,
with centrifugals and the like becoming ever more viable, LS conversions yielding bigger power more economically than I could likely ask my numbers matching 2 bolt SBC for even if I owned a chain of gas stations to feed it with; I want something that will be the end-all, to transform this car from 40 yr old base quality musclecar (using the term loosely with what mine was born as) and turn it into something with the soul of a sports car.

So, I sit here working on keeping the budget afloat and picking other small items off of my list and watching to see how this all shakes out and if supply ever catches up with demand before I have the funds to get in line. There are always the other lines if this one turns out to be a lesson in frustration.

Prior to the RS release I was exchanging emails with Shafi himself; that seemed pretty cool to me when I was also watching him on Chop, Cut, Rebuild with the XP Hemi-Charger. He initiated via PM and called me out on why I wanted a 6spd vs 5spd after I had commented on driving a friends car with T56. I was sold on an auto--> manual conversion at that point.

Him or other Keisler reps were also regularly chiming in here and answering questions pre-RS release.
Now where are they? Maintaining PR doesn't end at the initial order placement does it?

go-fish

05-19-2011, 10:14 PM

The real question is who takes their car apart when they don't have any parts?

Werd.

Mr Nick

05-20-2011, 03:27 AM

The real question is who takes their car apart when they don't have any parts?

Werd.

People like me who have limited time and money for a project like a transmission swap.

I had the 200-4R out already because I was doing work to the engine. When I decided to order the RS600, I sold the 200-4R to cover the deposit. Never would have done that had I known it would cause me to have a non-running car for half the season.

Roberts68

05-20-2011, 04:12 AM

How much is their deposit now that you mention it?

AM.MSCL

05-20-2011, 05:12 AM

How much is their deposit now that you mention it?

Half the total package cost you order! It was for me.

Roberts68

05-20-2011, 05:18 AM

Well, that's a lot to have tied up but so is roughly $3k for a full conversion package.
I'd be sweatin' bullets while I waited so long. That said, if/when I was to take the plunge I may pay the whole works up front, but I would really prefer to do it when they have stock ready to go out the door. Waiting a week seems tolerable, weeks and weeks for something like wheels to be custom built seems like it would be pretty rough... Waiting months, and then more months = nearly unbearable.

Vicinity

05-20-2011, 05:40 AM

Man, a while ago I was considering placing an order for one, but seeing all the people *still* without transmissions, I'm really glad I didn't. Did they just get more orders than they expected and are overwhelmed? Or?

wmhjr

05-20-2011, 06:06 AM

Since I have yet to hear of a single unit being delivered, it's hard to believe that order quantity is the issue.

John Wright

05-20-2011, 06:16 AM

maybe folks should ask for their money back and try something else?.....I understand waiting a few weeks or whatnot, but months with an expected date that keeps moving out....yikes

AMC Racer

05-20-2011, 08:18 AM

... well, there's always the McLeod M-800 ... lots of people still waiting on it ... but don't think McLeod took any orders?

If you call Keisler, what do they say?

bobcat68

05-20-2011, 10:38 AM

if you call them they will give you a bunch of BS on why they have not shipped any. but also tell you it will be very soon and want you to plunk down your deposit.(don't believe it) the bottom line is they do not have the parts to build the tranny's. i have been waiting 10 months (really) when they took my deposit i was told mid to end october. at this point i will wait awhile longer but not much.i will pay to have the 2-3 shift issue's with the tko and put it in and not look back but it will not be from keisler. there's alot more to this nightmare but i dont want to seem like im bashing them althought they deserve it! from what i can tell they dont think they are to blame for this. if your thinking of one pm me and i will give you the hole story if your interested.besides the camaro that the 600 is for im building a nova and a chevelle both 4-sp's, hurst or american will get my money next time very dissappointed with them to say the least.

bbcc

05-20-2011, 11:43 AM

I just called and spoke to Dodie (great ladie to talk to). I'm #35 on the list (ordering end of December) for the 600. At this point, gearsets are the latest hold up. The first batch of gear sets are set to arive begining of June. My trans won't be built untill the second or third production run, with a projected shipping date of July 8. Last time it was the case and tailpiece castings holding back production.

Roberts68

05-20-2011, 12:41 PM

It's beginning to smell like your deposits are funding the production run, and I don't personally think that is how it should work. Maybe I am wrong, but I still think you take orders when you have stock ready to go out the door.
They are providing a product, not a service. If it was a service where I send you my XYZ part (core perhaps) and then when it arrives you assess it, work on it and then return it. For that type of service, I would expect to wait.
To purchase product, at least on an initial release of a product I would think those that got their foot in the door early would have gotten an item that was ready to ship out.
Yes, I understand overhead and pre-ordering... I just think you use a lender or investors to finance not waiting customers.
I'm not saying that IS what has happened, but I have seen it before especially in the firearms market and this is starting to bare similarities.
I really don't have a horse in this race, but I was sold on this line of transmissions. I thought that by the time I had raised the funds there would be a few out being used and abused which is never a bad thing; Let the most eager beavers serve as stunt doubles for guinea pigs.
Now, who knows?

Flash68

05-20-2011, 12:46 PM

I don't have a problem with taking deposits on first orders.... just don't be so bold with your ready & ship dates. And COMMUNICATE better with the people who actually have placed a deposit. That should go without saying.

Roberts68

05-20-2011, 01:07 PM

Just to be clear, I think the deposits should be used to provide confirmation of intent to purchase, hold a place in line and so forth.
That said, with product all ready to ship out you could just accept payment, package it and ship it.

Yes, communication is key, it is the most important level of customer service in my opinion.

KEISLER

05-20-2011, 01:18 PM

Hello All;

First off, I want to THANK YOU for being decent about the delays we are experiencing. In this world of electronic forums, we don't always see that.

Here are some updates:

1. RS Production - We are building and shipping product, and have been for several weeks now. The production run rate is not at full speed yet. We've had some hurtles related to not getting the machined castings in fast enough, but that is improving daily as they are running 7 days/week. RS400 & RS500 are shipping.

2. RS600 Gearset - In Feb 2010 last year we ordered 200 gearsets from a supplier in Novi Michigan. We received some shipments before the supplier went out of business/sold in early Jan 2011. The job transferred to a new supplier, who made delivery promises they couldn't keep which is why the RS600 is several months behind. So, in Feb 2011 we ordered 300 gearsets from another supplier. Both suppliers are within approx three weeks of shipping, which will allow us to begin shipping quantities of RS600.

We ship orders in priority they were received. Ms. Dodie Ernst handles the RS Shipping, and she can be reached at [email protected] or by phone 888-609-0070 x221. Dodie has the latest and greatest information on shipping.

We are working hard every day to keep the product rolling out the door. We take pride in offering what you will find to be the best manual transmission solution in the market for your muscle car. And, the RS is built here in Tennessee with American built components (unlike the Tremec TKO of Mexico product sold by us and others mentioned in this thread). We care about the aftermarket enthusiasts like you because we ARE muscle car enthusiasts.

KEISLER

05-20-2011, 02:23 PM

Amazing!!!! Keisler has sold all these TKO 600 transmissions to us only to turn their backs on former customers! Sad! For the record I shift my TKO600 from 2nd to 3rd above 6000rpm no problem! Can you say operator error.

Dante' -

We (Keisler Engineering) have not turned our back on any customer. We are simply moving our business in a direction which allows us to expand our offerings past Tremec TKO. And moreover, to offer better products and service than previous with the tremec products.

You and others asked about complaints of shifting with the TKO. These incidents are apparently frequent, but most customers realize it is the design of the TKO and not a Keisler issue.

Here is an email I received from a repeat customer May 1 2011:
"Hello Shafi,

I do happen need a 5 speed OD for my current project car. What are the chances that your current transmissions will actually shift into 3rd gear each time and every time you attempt it? The last kit (TKO 600) I bought from you needed 3 - 4 attempts to shift into 3rd gear (every time). Are your current kits improved or is it still a situation of buyer beware?

John P.
Washington, MI"

As you can see, John P. had problems with the most recent unit.

Bill Howell, one of the moderators and long time members of Pro-Touring.com brought his Hurst supplied TKO to us back in 2009 to upgrade it to our PerfectFit version because he was unhappy with their customization. After running the TKO hard the remainder of 2009 and 2010, Bill gave up on the TKO completely and sold it to another member here, who in turn, sold it to us to move it on.

Another customer, Don K. of Phoenix AZ, could not get his TKO to shift into 2nd gear. He sent the unit back to us a couple of weeks ago, and we replaced the blocker rings with our Level 2 upgraded ones to get it shifting better over 5500rpm. He is selling his TKO to purchase the RS, after shifting them side by side at a trade show recently in Las Vegas.

Keisler, or any other seller of TKO, has no control over the quality of the unit as it comes from tremec. At least at Keisler, we disassemble the TKO, and implement some upgrades, then test the unit on a high tech inspection machine that runs the input up to 6000 rpm while we shift it at speed. No other seller has this capability. I have been to tremec's factory in mexico to the line where there tko is produced, and I can say that as of 2007 when I was there, their test method would not reveal high rpm shift problems. They do spin the transmission and a guy shifts it, but it is not at high speed; it is merely a function test (which is good - at least they do that). The TKO needs a complete redesign to be a class leading product. I doubt tremec will do it because they are happy with status quo.

We still sell the TKO, and will match or beat any competitor's price for a like product. Additionally we offer the longest warranty in the market - 3 years on the tko - plus 2 years to activate your warranty. The fact that we offer such a long warranty is a testiment to our support of you, the customer, and that we have high confidence in our product. Apparently to competition does to, as they have recently dumped their designs in favor of ripping off our linkage/shifter designs!

Anyway I hope you understand we are here for you.

Ron.in.SoCal

05-20-2011, 04:53 PM

Dante' - We (Keisler Engineering) have not turned our back on any customer....

Anyway I hope you understand we are here for you.

Shafi - good luck w your business. From your reply it looks like you have not listened to your customers. Quit name droping, and explain where the units are at in production. You took deposits, promised delivery and did not back your words with actions. Personally, I do not think I will ever buy from you.

ROBS6T8

05-20-2011, 04:54 PM

Dante' -

We (Keisler Engineering) have not turned our back on any customer. We are simply moving our business in a direction which allows us to expand our offerings past Tremec TKO. And moreover, to offer better products and service than previous with the tremec products.

You and others asked about complaints of shifting with the TKO. These incidents are apparently frequent, but most customers realize it is the design of the TKO and not a Keisler issue.

Here is an email I received from a repeat customer May 1 2011:
"Hello Shafi,

I do happen need a 5 speed OD for my current project car. What are the chances that your current transmissions will actually shift into 3rd gear each time and every time you attempt it? The last kit (TKO 600) I bought from you needed 3 - 4 attempts to shift into 3rd gear (every time). Are your current kits improved or is it still a situation of buyer beware?

John P.
Washington, MI"

As you can see, John P. had problems with the most recent unit.

Bill Howell, one of the moderators and long time members of Pro-Touring.com brought his Hurst supplied TKO to us back in 2009 to upgrade it to our PerfectFit version because he was unhappy with their customization. After running the TKO hard the remainder of 2009 and 2010, Bill gave up on the TKO completely and sold it to another member here, who in turn, sold it to us to move it on.

Another customer, Don K. of Phoenix AZ, could not get his TKO to shift into 2nd gear. He sent the unit back to us a couple of weeks ago, and we replaced the blocker rings with our Level 2 upgraded ones to get it shifting better over 5500rpm. He is selling his TKO to purchase the RS, after shifting them side by side at a trade show recently in Las Vegas.

Keisler, or any other seller of TKO, has no control over the quality of the unit as it comes from tremec. At least at Keisler, we disassemble the TKO, and implement some upgrades, then test the unit on a high tech inspection machine that runs the input up to 6000 rpm while we shift it at speed. No other seller has this capability. I have been to tremec's factory in mexico to the line where there tko is produced, and I can say that as of 2007 when I was there, their test method would not reveal high rpm shift problems. They do spin the transmission and a guy shifts it, but it is not at high speed; it is merely a function test (which is good - at least they do that). The TKO needs a complete redesign to be a class leading product. I doubt tremec will do it because they are happy with status quo.

We still sell the TKO, and will match or beat any competitor's price for a like product. Additionally we offer the longest warranty in the market - 3 years on the tko - plus 2 years to activate your warranty. The fact that we offer such a long warranty is a testiment to our support of you, the customer, and that we have high confidence in our product. Apparently to competition does to, as they have recently dumped their designs in favor of ripping off our linkage/shifter designs!

Anyway I hope you understand we are here for you.

Kudos to you for actually stepping foot into Mexico!
I will be purchasing a RS500... as soon as the wife approves! I'm still looking forward to hearing from some who have had some real world results.
Thanks for he updates and the info on the delays.

MoparCar

05-20-2011, 05:07 PM

OK, nice post but when will the RS really be available for shipment and quotes. Twice I've emailed for a quote and got excuses about being extremely busy. No quote.
???

Don't advertise and promote a product that is not available.

razor66

05-20-2011, 05:40 PM

Shafi - good luck w your business. From your reply it looks like you have not listened to your customers. Quit name droping, and explain where the units are at in production. You took deposits, promised delivery and did not back your words with actions. Personally, I do not think I will ever buy from you.

It seems like he answered your question regarding where the transmissions are at in the production process in his previous post pasted below.

KEISLER
Pro-Touring.com Sponsor
Join Date
Dec 2008
Location
Knoxville, TN
Posts
354
Update
Hello All;

First off, I want to THANK YOU for being decent about the delays we are experiencing. In this world of electronic forums, we don't always see that.

Here are some updates:

1. RS Production - We are building and shipping product, and have been for several weeks now. The production run rate is not at full speed yet. We've had some hurtles related to not getting the machined castings in fast enough, but that is improving daily as they are running 7 days/week. RS400 & RS500 are shipping.

2. RS600 Gearset - In Feb 2010 last year we ordered 200 gearsets from a supplier in Novi Michigan. We received some shipments before the supplier went out of business/sold in early Jan 2011. The job transferred to a new supplier, who made delivery promises they couldn't keep which is why the RS600 is several months behind. So, in Feb 2011 we ordered 300 gearsets from another supplier. Both suppliers are within approx three weeks of shipping, which will allow us to begin shipping quantities of RS600.

We ship orders in priority they were received. Ms. Dodie Ernst handles the RS Shipping, and she can be reached at [email protected] or by phone 888-609-0070 x221. Dodie has the latest and greatest information on shipping.

We are working hard every day to keep the product rolling out the door. We take pride in offering what you will find to be the best manual transmission solution in the market for your muscle car. And, the RS is built here in Tennessee with American built components (unlike the Tremec TKO of Mexico product sold by us and others mentioned in this thread). We care about the aftermarket enthusiasts like you because we ARE muscle car enthusiasts.

Mkelcy

05-20-2011, 08:40 PM

It seems like he answered your question regarding where the transmissions are at in the production process in his previous post pasted below.

The only possible issue being that it's the same response given on Camaros.net one week ago: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1574998&postcount=25

Flash68

05-20-2011, 09:14 PM

Gotta love the canned response cut n pasted from a week prior.

There is just some contradiction in the marketing of the TKO and RS units that I am not liking.... the TKO is still being marketed and sold, and without any info about the sloppy shifting issues and no high rpm shifting. And yet in the marketing material for the RS600, they use the these inherent TKO issues as selling points for an upgrade to the new RS600. I find this kind of funny.

It will be very interesting to sit back and watch once these hit the streets & tracks and see how they perform when they get really used.