Hotchkis Front Control Arms

[esenior]

I'm considering upgrading the control arms on my 69 Camaro to the Hotchkis Tubular Arms (1107 & 1109). However I have a question about what this will do to the wheel position.

The front tires are coming extremely close to the fender at the front of the tire (see picture below). As you can see, the front of the tire could possibly dig into the fender. If I install the Hotchkis arms, will this move the wheel forward at all making my problem worse? Note that I also have 2" Drop Spindles (not sure what brand...came with my Baer front brake kit).

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/TireClearanceProblem_MJPG-1.jpg

[MrQuick]

yes they will. what are your alignment settings right now?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Eric, it is very odd your are having issues to close to the front of the fender. Usually the issue is with the rear of the fender. What size tires are you running? What size / backspace wheels do you have? Are the tire close to the rear of the fender also? And is it aligned?

Adding caster will TYPICALLY move the wheel back in the wheel opening as the upper ball joint moves toward the rear but Hotchkis geometry corrects the lower arm to move the lower ball joint forward when the upper ball joint is moved back creating more caster without moving the wheel back in the wheel opening.

Something is weird here. It might be easier to talk on the phone

[esenior]

I'm currently have:

Stock control arms (Poly bushings)
2" Drop Spindles (Fairly certain they are Superior Spindles)
Koni Shocks
Springs are unknown (replaced by the shop)
Wheels are 18x8 with 4.75" backspacing (Co Custom Lazaer)
Tires are 245/40ZR-18 (Pirelli)

Let me know if there is any other information needed.

The shop that did much of the work on my car, had verified that the wheels were centered in the fender. Included below is the thread between me and the shop. I never got a final response from them. Note that I no longer use this shop.

The car is currently getting prepped for paint. I had requested that the front fenders be modified for tire clearance, but would prefer to avoid this if I can, but it isn't sounding very good. Any help would be appreciated.

ME: Also, we had discussed before the fact that the front tires come very close to the fender. You had stated that this is because the car is not at ride height. When we unloaded the car, we noticed that the tire is actually hitting the fender. I looked at the position of the wheel and I am extremely concerned that this problem is not going to be resolved even after the car settles. Are you confident that this will not be a problem? What did AMC do to make sure this would be OK?

SHOP: We made sure that the wheels were centered in the opening at ride height. The way we checked it was by using alignment pins to align the subframe with the body.

ME: You had stated that once the car has weight on it (a real engine) and settles, that this wouldn't be a problem. I have my doubts that the camber of the wheel will be enough to clear the fender once the car settles. You mentioned that you verified that the wheel does clear when the car is at ride height. How was this verified? Did you pull the spring out?

SHOP: I think there is some confusion as to what the problem is. Maybe, send me some pics and another explanation and we’ll check it out.

[ProdigyCustoms]

This will be hard to explain without pictures but I will try.

I do not know how they could possibly determine the location of the wheel in the wheel opening without having it alighned? Sounds like they may have pushed the subframe forward during installation. For a quick reference, there are line up dowel holes on the subframe mount beside each of the subframe mounts at the firewall. The line up dowel holes are 5/8 dowel (a original tire iron is perfect size) and the holes in the subframe should be ligned up with the holes in the firewall. There is acceptible wiggle room to slightly adjust squareness off the subframe to the body, but if you can see that the holes in the subframe are obviously moved forward, problem solved.

You can also see if they have a lot of negative camber alighned into it by seeing if there is a lot of shims on the upper arm rear location moving the upper ball joint forward.

[esenior]

Frank, thanks for trying to understand my ramblings here and help out. :)

When the car was sent to them, the subframe wasn't aligned properly. They re-aligned the subframe (with the guide pins).

The suspension hasn't been dialed in yet (just bolted on) and there aren't any shims installed. I looked through old pictures and could only find one, but it looks like there were more shims on the front of the upper arm, which I'm guessing would cause positive camber. Also, the car does sit pretty high and doesn't currently have any weight in it. I've been using a plastic engine to test fit everything. (See pictures below)

Could the problem be that I just don't have my shims installed yet?

I would like to swap out the stamped arms for tubular, but am I just going to amplify the problem?

Biggest question is, since the car is in for paint, can I go ahead and paint and resolve this issue after the fact? or should I modify the corner of the fender for additional clearance?

Driver's side control arm before disassembly:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/69CAMAROPT_010718_02MJPG-1.jpg

Current ride height with OUT an engine installed:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/69CAMAROPT_080524_03MJPG-1.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

You will be alright with control arms, but considering your arms sit so far forward already, I would lean more towards NONE geometry corrected arms. So in this case I would choose Speedtech.

Call me

[esenior]

Just wanted to close this out....talked to Frank about this yesterday. Going to go with the Speedtech arms since they will reposition the top ball joint backward slightly helping out with my clearance issue at the front. Also planning to do the Guldstrand mod.

Thanks for the input everyone!

[67 ls1 vert]

Sounds good E... let me know if you need some help changing out the front suspension after I finish the car.
Your car if going to be killer!!