Best One Man Bleeder System

[Mr Nick]

What's the 'best' way to bleed brakes by yourself? I'm sure there is some personal preference when it comes to what you like, just looking for suggestions. This will be for occasional garage use, not daily by any means.

Vacuum style:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUN-CP7835/?rtype=1

Reverse bleed:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PSL-2004/

Pressure bleed:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MVP-0260/

Thanks,
Nick

[parsonsj]

Motive Products pressure bleed. I can bleed all 4 corners in minutes.

jp

[gort69]

I've had excellent results with the Motive pressure bleeder. The only drawback is the funky chain and hook retention system for the GM adapter I need. I use a C-clamp and a block of wood to secure the adapter to the MC. Once you have it all set up you can bleed all 4 corners in about 15 minutes.

The one you linked looks like it has lots of adapters. You can get the basic bleeder + the adapter you need for about half that price.

I can't comment on the others - never tried 'em.

[Larry Callahan]

Believe it or not but I was shocked at how well this worked from Harbor freight. I used it for my brakes a few times and my clutch.

Toss the smaller bottle in the trash, hook up the large one to your bleeder screw and feed it 90psi or air.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/image_2567-1.jpg

[andrewb70]

Clear water bottle and 2 feet of clear PVC hose. :-)

Andrew

[rickpaw]

Do you know if the Motive will work with Willwood m/c? I'm thinking of getting the Motive to bleed the brakes (brand new brake lines with no fluids).

[parsonsj]

Yes, the Motive product will work with Wilwood. The only thing I found is that you want to keep the pressure around 5 psi when using the plastic remote reservoirs, otherwise the pressure can push brake fluid past the O-ring.

jp

[MonzaRacer]

OK guys try:http://www.brakebleeder.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2
The V12 or V12 diy are inexpensive and reverse bleeding is only way to go. I have 3 different units with latest being the 3rd one down that I got for them using my likeness and email/comment in new manual.
The Phoeneix injector is awesome to the nth degree.
See air moves upwards, and if you system is in rest mode the fluid is made to return easily so it bleeds very fast. You just hook to bleeder, and pump till air quits coming up(I do this before hooking to master cylinders as I reverse bleed them off the car. then quick hook upand small pump before tightening the fittings and then let caliper gravity bleed. DONE.
I have been using this process for years, actual wore one unit out, still have second unit which is in need of new tubing and the newest has a small leak so they want it back for evaluation/warranty as I have used the new one for nearly a year and almost daily it seems or at least several times a week. I just wanted a seal kit but they want me to send it back as its newest version and they want to evaluate the issue(ie messedup when built or part failure so I see why).
But these things are awesome over pressure bleeding BUT with their adapter kit it can be used for pressure bleeding too!

[aronhk_md]

Believe it or not but I was shocked at how well this worked from Harbor freight. I used it for my brakes a few times and my clutch.

Toss the smaller bottle in the trash, hook up the large one to your bleeder screw and feed it 90psi or air.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html



Larry,

So that system from Harbor Freight handles 90 psi ok? Also, since you are pushing fluid in the reverse direction, do you still need to bench bleed the master cylinder? Will I need to remove my speed bleeders to do this?

As for bench bleeding the master.........can ANYONE explain to me how you get the master cylinder in place, remove the nipples and get your brake lines in place without getting fluid everywhere?

So far I've used a vacuum system to pull fluid out of the bleeders, and now I have speed bleeders on each caliper, but I'm going to be emptying the whole system again shortly to make some changes and would like to find a better way.

[parsonsj]

can ANYONE explain to me how you get the master cylinder in place, remove the nipples and get your brake lines in place without getting fluid everywhere?You can't. If you keep the reservoir cap on, you can reduce the amount of fluid that "escapes", and you might be able to put sheeting or towels down to keep it all off the car.

I bolt everything in dry, fill the reservoir, and pressure bleed with the Motive tool.

jp

[aronhk_md]

Hmmm...I'm sure it works. Kinda like the idea of going in reverse....seems if you fill from down low the bubbles will be easier to flush. I'm guessing though I'd have to remove my speed bleeders to use a system like the one Larry has. Not to mention its a lot cheaper and doesnt require different adapters for different cars.

[Fuelie Nova]

I bolt everything in dry, fill the reservoir, and pressure bleed with the Motive tool.

Just making sure I understand you... no bench bleeding? That would be nice, think I will purchase the motive just for that reason.
Tom

[parsonsj]

Just making sure I understand you... no bench bleeding? Nope. Take the masters out of the box, and bolt them to the car. It's a nice bleeding system. I used it on II Much a bunch of times, and now on my Z06. It takes longer to get the car in the air and the tires off than it does to bleed to the brakes.

jp

[rickpaw]

I bolt everything in dry, fill the reservoir, and pressure bleed with the Motive tool.

jp

John,
So you did not bench bleed the m/c then?

[parsonsj]

Tu, see post #13.

[Mr Nick]

Is it ok to reverse bleed a car with ABS? I thought you were not supposed to push old fluid back up into the ABS controller?

[rickpaw]

Tu, see post #13.

Duh, thank you. For some reasons my PC did not show all of the posts.

[silver69camaro]

I think opinions for bleeding are like bellybuttons, everybody has their own. I've used all methods, and the one that works the best for me is a simple one way check valve in a length of clear hose. Just stick one end in a jar, open the bleeder, and squeeze the pedal. It's clean and slow, which is actually a good thing IMO, because then I can see the bubbles come out (some are very small!).

I like pressure bleeding too but it was a hassle for me to connect the adapters and such. That and I didn't want to spend the money on a bladder type bleeder, which is the ideal type to use.

Keep a rubber mallet handy to smack the MC or caliper, it wil dislodge some air bubbles that get caught in tight places.

[John Wright]

I think opinions for bleeding are like bellybuttons, everybody has their own. I've used all methods, and the one that works the best for me is a simple one way check valve in a length of clear hose. Just stick one end in a jar, open the bleeder, and squeeze the pedal. It's clean and slow, which is actually a good thing IMO, because then I can see the bubbles come out (some are very small!).

+1....I use this in combination with Russle's Speed bleeders and that worked great for me.

[parsonsj]

The Motive product is designed to allow you to fill up a huge reservoir of fresh brake fluid, and then feed that into the master cylinder reservoir, so you can go around and bleed all four wheels without worrying about the master cylinder reservoir going empty and forcing air into the system. It is ideal for race cars that need to change all their brake fluid before or after a race.

I don't do that. I use the Motive pressure bleeder along with a full m/c reservoir and then bleed one wheel at a time, refilling the master reservoir between each wheel. It's a little slower, but wastes less fluid, and is easier to clean up.


Keep a rubber mallet handy to smack the MC or caliper, it wil dislodge some air bubbles that get caught in tight places.Good idea! I find after a full fluid replacement, it's a good idea to do a quick "check" bleed after a shake down run, and sometimes I find an air bubble or two. I'll whack my calipers next time and see if that makes a difference.

jp

[andrewb70]

Whichever method you choose remember that bleeding brakes is not about force, or pressure. It's about volume. Many people forget the ultimate goal; to rid the system of air. Any air that is in the system needs to be replaced with fluid. It is just that simple. If you have patience a gravity method works quite well. I've used that method on particularly stubborn systems. Air is lighter than brake fluid so it will want to travel to the highest point in the system. You just have to provide a clear path and replenish the lost volume with fluid.

Andrew

[quarterbooty]

Yes, the Motive product will work with Wilwood. The only thing I found is that you want to keep the pressure around 5 psi when using the plastic remote reservoirs, otherwise the pressure can push brake fluid past the O-ring.

jp

John,
I have the tandem aluminum Wilwood master. Do you know offhand which adapter works with this master? Thanks.

[rickpaw]

The Motive adapter for GM cars (flat type) will not fit the tandem Wilwood master. The master is a tad too long. Gort69 (Al) and I tried to bleed my 67 FB and it did not fit. I ended up buying the same kit from Harbor Freight as Larry's, and it worked fine.

[parsonsj]

I have the tandem aluminum Wilwood master. Do you know offhand which adapter works with this master? No, I don't. I've done my Z06 and Wilwood remote reservoirs. I've never bled a Wilwood tandem master.

jp

[quarterbooty]

Thanks for the info. As much as I would like one, I don't have an air compressor, so I'm looking for something that's self-contained.

[gort69]

Thanks for the info. As much as I would like one, I don't have an air compressor, so I'm looking for something that's self-contained.

Nick - If I'm understanding correctly, you are thinking that the Motive bleeder uses an air compessor? If so, not so! It's basically a garden sprayer with its own hand pump and a pressure gauge. If I misunderstood, please disregard.

[aronhk_md]

Garden sprayer......hmmm.....excellent idea. What about using a small garden sprayer and just going in reverse? Sounds a lot like Larry was suggesting from Harbor Freight, except you'd use it without an air compressor. The thing I like about going in reverse is all bleeders are essentially the same. No need to buy various fittings for various cars, or wonder if the one you are buying is gonna fit.

My big question is......is filling in a forward direction any better than filling from down below?

My initial thought is it would be better actually, as air will rise in the system. But I'm guessing the answer is more complex because I dont know the mechanics of the average proportioning valve and master cylinder (beyond basics).

Still, from whats out there on the market for the purpose....I believe reverse filling is an accepted way correct? My only guess is that it wont work with my speed bleeders. I'd need regular bleeding valves (which are still in my toolbox).

[Fuelie Nova]

Just ordered my motive bleeder today based on this thread.
Tom

[CreepinDeth]

Believe it or not but I was shocked at how well this worked from Harbor freight. I used it for my brakes a few times and my clutch.

Toss the smaller bottle in the trash, hook up the large one to your bleeder screw and feed it 90psi or air.

http://www.harborfreight.com/brake-fluid-bleeder-92924.html

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/image_2567-1.jpg

Same one I bought. Works phenomenal for $25 , waaaay cheaper then the Vacula or other one's.


[SIZE="3"]Larry,

So that system from Harbor Freight handles 90 psi ok? Also, since you are pushing fluid in the reverse direction, do you still need to bench bleed the master cylinder? Will I need to remove my speed bleeders to do this?

Yes.


As for bench bleeding the master.........can ANYONE explain to me how you get the master cylinder in place, remove the nipples and get your brake lines in place without getting fluid everywhere?

Most new master cylinders come with screw in plastic caps into the 2 fittings.
If you don't have them, maybe the auto parts stores carry them.
Raybestos new 79 Vette disc/disc masters came with them.
The repop Autozone one's came with the tube style caps.

I bench bled my 2 masters angled DOWN in a vise for both my cars
Caps in place, and keep pumping it until it the piston won't move anymore and no more bubbles coming out.

[BOBBYA312]

I have always used the vacumn style-always worked great.

[67cougnut]

+1....I use this in combination with Russle's Speed bleeders and that worked great for me.

+2 on russell speed bleeds i have even used the motormite "help" ones with positive results.

[JRouche]

What's the 'best' way to bleed brakes by yourself? I'm sure there is some personal preference when it comes to what you like, just looking for suggestions. This will be for occasional garage use, not daily by any means.
Thanks,
Nick

Not sure about the best, but for personal preference I can say.

I like the speed bleeders (bleeder valves on the calipers).

I have tried the vacuum pumps at the calipers, works great. The pressurized MC cap, works great. The old fashioned way (wife pumping the brakes while I crack the bleeder) always works.

But the speed bleeders were the latest method for me. And I really like them. With the cap pressurized systems and the vacuum systems they are great for a quick fill of a dry system, like you just put in all new brake lines and calipers. They move alot of fluid fast and get that part of the job done.

But..... I have followed up the bleeding process with those after I thought all the air bubbles were removed just for a check. I used the speed bleeders cause the wife was pretty much done with my constant use of her right foot :)

The speed bleeders put a whole LOT more pressure through the lines, fittings and calipers. The pressurized or vacuum systems put ALOT of volume, but not much pressure compared to what the brake pedal will put out.

And sure as sh*t, I got some small bubbles. And yes, I was pushing hard and fast on the pedal. Just to try and dislodge any small pockets of air with some turbulence. And I did.

Not large bubbles, but more of a tightly packed section or two of small bubbles. Almost looking like a small section of foam the bubbles were so small. But they were there (in the clear 3/16" ID tube I used for a drain from the bleeder), lodged in a tight crevice or pocket of some component (prolly the caliper) Im thinking.

And this was looking at the tube, filled solid with fluid after some moderate pedal pumps before I got more aggressive with the pumps. I got more aggressive because I wanted to make sure there wasnt any trapped air. So I pumped the pedal a few times normal, just to get the fluid flowing into the drain tube an fill it. Then hit it with ALOT of pressure. Thats when the additional air bubbles broke loose and vented out.

The thing is, I think there will always be the slightest amount of air pockets in any system. Calipers arent designed perfectly, they will still have high areas and very small voids that the air can get trapped in.

My thinking was if I could create enough turbulence within the caliper with a large inflow of fluid maybe I could force the fluid into those pockets and drive some of the air out. And IMO I did.

And you wont get that turbulence unless there is a high pressure AND volume of fluid flow. Only way to get that is with the pedal and an open bleeder valve.

So employ the wife, girlfriend or buddy to monitor the bleeder to close it off for every pedal push. Or get some speed bleeders.

The speed bleeders act very fast too. I was able to monitor two of the clear drain lines while pumping. And they dont let any return fluid. And really, I was hammering the pedal, pushing really hard and just letting it come back up then hitting it again. There wasnt any back flow at all and I could watch the column of tiny bubbles march on down the drain tube.

I dont know why I waited so long to install these lil valves. Maybe cause I was old school and had some reservations. No more. Im sold.

And my brake pedal is tight, right at the top with the first push. I have power brakes. But with the engine off the pedal is right there, there is no air in the system.

Oh and yeah, the 62 Nova stops on a dime, sure the 13" discs help.

But for a super simple one person bleeding op the speed bleeders are the ticket. JR

[Fuelie Nova]

Thought I would resurrect this thread... I purchased the Motive bleeder and finally got ready to use it a couple of days ago. The guys were correct, this is a NICE system to use for bleeding your brakes. I did not bench bleed my M/C and gave it a try. Once everything was hooked up I had a solid brake pedal in 15 min.
My good friend Charlie warned me to be careful when removing the cap as the M/C will be full of fluid. I purchased the large billet cap they offer, put two 1/8" pipe thread holes for each resv and plugged them. When done, I use a syringe to pull some fluid out before pulling the cover off the M/C. Glad I was warned... I would have had fluid dripping on my freshly painted chassis!

Overall great product.
Tom

[DenRS]

Fuelie,

In the directions for the motive bleeder it says that if you still have fluid in your motive bottle, it says to move the bottle into a position where the pickup hose is no longer submerged in brake fluid. If you open the bleeder closest to you, the system will pump air through the hose and into the master pushing the fluid level in your master down so you don't have to worry about the big mess. Then you can remove the cap on the master and either remove or add extra fluid to the max fill line. Of course your method works too.

[THE TECH]

I've bought just about all types out there. My favorite is the Phoenix system. The Motive is good for newer vehicles but that chain and rubber cap thing is a pain and doesn't really work with all m/c setups.

[gsxrken]

Didn't read the whole thread so forgive me if this was said. I use the Motive pressure system "dry". I fill the master, place the motive cap on it, and pump in about 15PSI of air with the charging handle. Then I go to each caliper and crack the bleeder until it runs clear. Then next corner.

Much easier to clean up, and no disaster spill possibility. You do need to keep an eye on the fluid level in the MC just like typical bleeding. As a one man show, it can't be beat.

[ace_xp2]

Garden sprayer......hmmm.....excellent idea. What about using a small garden sprayer and just going in reverse?).

Presto:
http://www.bmw-m.net/TechProc/bleeder.htm

[johnny68]

gentlemen all you have to do is get the wife and say honey now pump 3-4 times hold, pump ,hold ta da oh it makes it a whole lot nicer on the lift also
john

[JRouche]

gentlemen all you have to do is get the wife and say honey now pump 3-4 times hold, pump ,hold ta da oh it makes it a whole lot nicer on the lift also
john

I agree and have been there done it. I wanted to not have to ask her again so I went with the speed bleeders. Works like a charm.

And I have tried every type of brake bleeding there is. The speed bleeder valves are the best so far. Talk about easy.. JR