6.0 noisy valvetrain on startup.. what would you do?

[oestek]

OK, so the valvetrain in the 6.0 in our '01 Silverado HD rattles like a can of marbles on startup. 10 seconds later the top end quiets down, leaving a little piston noise until it's warm. It's got 145k on it, good oil pressure, but it's starting to consume some oil. Drives fine, still has power, etc. Have not done compression check.

Sounds like rebuild time.

What would you do?

[kochevy67]

It's a comon problem for the 6.0 on start up. However it is not the valve train it is piston slap, not to worry I have an 02 with 103K on it and have had zero problems with it.

[CamaroAJ]

what oil filter is on it? there was some oil drain back issues with cheep filters.

the lifter noise sounds like normal gm issues. you can replace the lifters and thats about it or live with the noise.

seeing as you have 145k on the truck i would guess the oil consuming issue is the rings. i would skip the compression test and do a leak down test. that would tell you if you have alot of blow by or not that can cause it to burn oil.

you can also open the throttle and look to see if the intake if full of oil. they had some valve cover issues that would fling oil into the pvc system.

[John Wright]

rattles like a can of marbles on startup. 10 seconds later the top end quiets downMy wife's 01 Tahoe 5.3 does the same thing.....we have 170K on that one.


...My 04 Silverado w/ 6.0 is quiet and has 126K on it.

[Gitter Dun]

I have an '01 HD as well and the 6.0's are known for their piston slap at warm up. Anybody that bought one new probably recieved the letter for the class action law suit for this problem. My truck has 137,000 miles on it and so far so good. I met a guy with 250, 000 on his and he said it still ran strong. I'll keep crossing my fingers and hope she goes another couple 100k cause I sure as hell dont plan on paying 50K for a new one.

[oestek]

Thanks for the replies, guys... I think I'll shoot a little video of cold startup tomorrow. It's had the piston slap forever, and that's definitely lower in the block. I'll post a video, maybe that will make it obvious to someone.

[Mike Norris]

Hey Kev,

Is it something that started recently, possibly shortly after an oil change? I am sure you know that most oil filters these day have a check valve in them to keep the oil from draining back to the pan overnight. There are some cheap filters out there still do not. If it is a good filter, perhaps the oil filter is defective.

I use AC Delco PF46 or PF46E with no issues.

Hopefully it is something simple.

Mike Norris

[oestek]

Hey Mike,

I think you may be on to something. I have been using WIX filters in this truck for years, but the timeline does correlate with the last oil change. I'll swap it and see.

[Mike Norris]

Hey Mike,

I think you may be on to something. I have been using WIX filters in this truck for years, but the timeline does correlate with the last oil change. I'll swap it and see.

Fingers crossed for ya.

[John Wright]

My wife's 01 Tahoe 5.3 does the same thing.....we have 170K on that one.


...My 04 Silverado w/ 6.0 is quiet and has 126K on it.I added a qt of Lucas Oil Stabilizer to the oil last night during the oil change on my wife's Tahoe and used a PF46....started it up and it was quiet...still have my fingers crossed that it stays that way.

[oestek]

OK guys, time to play "guess that noise!"

We swapped to the Delco filter... it's quieter on startup, but it developed this one...

x9R7pghCmPY

Sounds like valvetrain to me... any guesses?

[Rhino]

I'm chasing down a similar noise on my 6.0 swap into my Avalanche. IMO the frequency of the noise indicates valvetrain (since it's spinning 1/2 crank speed.) If it was the bottom end I would expect the noise to be twice as frequent.
This particular engine came from an '02 Silvy HD. On my swap I've had the engine out twice so far. I did a full set of bearings on the bottom end, then tore it down for a header/head/cam/lifter swap with the same noise. Last week I took it into a respected local shop to have them tear into it and find no issues. I just finished up my tune and it's heading back into the shop at the end of the week. If I ever find out what's making my noise I'll post up.

[John Wright]

Kevin,
Take the oil fill cap off and see if the noise is louder with the cap removed. That is alot worst than my wife's Tahoe....but the Lucas treatment seemed to really quiet hers down...it's not totally gone at startup but it helped cut the noise to less than half what it was and it quietens up within seconds now whereas before she could drive to the end of my driveway before and it would still be ticking until she started up the highway and built some revs.

[oestek]

I pulled a valve cover on the driver side where it was loudest, and it seemed that a couple rocker arms were "looser" in the needle bearings than the others. I have an extra set of rockers, so I swapped several out, and the noise drastically improved. I'm going to swap all of 'em tomorrow and we'll see how it goes. It's much better now, though.

[Ron S]

My wifes GMC yukon did that from 120k miles to 250k miles when I sold it. The noise never got any worse, and I never did a thing to correct it. As far as I know its still making that noise. It was noisy the first time the the truck was started, the rest of the day it was quiet when started.

[Vegas69]

Something is definitely worn out in the valvetrain. If it's got a steel block it makes sense that it would quiet down hot since the valve train expansion would take up the slack.

[oestek]

The noise in the video was full-time, even after startup... it was nasty. The "new" rockers seem to be the fix, we'll know after some more road time.

[CamaroAJ]

I pulled a valve cover on the driver side where it was loudest, and it seemed that a couple rocker arms were "looser" in the needle bearings than the others. I have an extra set of rockers, so I swapped several out, and the noise drastically improved. I'm going to swap all of 'em tomorrow and we'll see how it goes. It's much better now, though.

the older 4.8 5.3 5.7 and 6.0L's did have some needle bearing issues. some would come apart and put the needle bearings into the oil pan.

[John Wright]

I pulled a valve cover on the driver side where it was loudest, and it seemed that a couple rocker arms were "looser" in the needle bearings than the others. I have an extra set of rockers, so I swapped several out, and the noise drastically improved. I'm going to swap all of 'em tomorrow and we'll see how it goes. It's much better now, though.Ahhh, maybe you are on to something there....keep us posted.

[LSXfan]

OK guys, time to play "guess that noise!"

We swapped to the Delco filter... it's quieter on startup, but it developed this one...

x9R7pghCmPY

Sounds like valvetrain to me... any guesses?

holy crap ! I've never heard a Gen 3 motor do that and still be driveable..

[oestek]

holy crap ! I've never heard a Gen 3 motor do that and still be driveable..

Going to change the rest of the rockers tonight, but the main noise is still gone since swapping the 3 arms. I'm calling it a success. Now I can really hear the good ole' piston slap down low until it gets warm!

[MonzaRacer]

Yeah up grading to a good set of aftermarket roller rockers help the older LSx. Been seeing a lot of older units with same issue, also inspect push rods too.
If you dont fix this issue it will trash valve tips and roller lifters and cam. I have fixed several so far.
As for Lucas ,well run what you want but if a pour in makes it better most cases its broke.
only one pour in I have used ever actually made engine better and didnt change oil viscosity and that was Restore. The rep came by an AutoZone I worked at and even told me the best way to use it, his recommendation for best results was fresh oil change, quality filter, (his words "no junk a$$ Fram filters") and use 2, 8 cylinder cans in V8 , 2, 6cyl in 6 cyl and a V8 can in 4 cyl.
I just did this to my 219k 2.2 Cavalier and it really seems to have helped, lat time I checked it was up from 30mpg to 32.6 mpg. HMMM same thing happened when I added 2 V8 cans to an old 350 that I was borrowing once.

[oestek]

OK, so my rocker arm swap didn't fix this problem. I was hoping it would have, but the noise returned. It comes and goes, sometimes with a slight variance on oil pressure... I just found this TSB and am thinking this might be the issue. Plan on performing the fix in Jan when I get a minute. Bad O-ring causing aeration of oil. TSB below, a good link to a fix here:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=917408

Can someone read this post from about #9 on, the items posted by LS1 CJ and let me know if his approach in #17 seems like a good idea? Thx!

***

Engine Knock or Lifter Noise (Replace O-Ring) #02-06-01-038 - (12/02/2002)
Engine Knock or Lifter Noise (Replace O-Ring)

2001-2002 Chevrolet Camaro

2001-2003 Chevrolet Corvette

2001-2002 Pontiac Firebird

2002-2003 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT

2000-2003 Chevrolet Suburban, Tahoe

2001-2003 Chevrolet Silverado

2002-2003 Chevrolet Avalanche

2000-2003 GMC Yukon, Yukon XL

2001-2003 GMC Sierra

with 4.8L, 5.3L, 5.7L or 6.0L V8 Engine (VINs V, T, Z, G, S, N, U -- RPOs LR4, LM7, L59, LS1, LS6, LQ9, LQ4)
Condition

Some customers may comment on an engine tick noise. The distinguishing characteristic of this condition is that it likely will have been present since new, and is typically noticed within the first 161-322 km (100-200 mi). The noise may often be diagnosed as a collapsed lifter. Additionally, the noise may be present at cold start and appear to diminish and then return as the engine warms to operating temperature. This noise is different from other noises that may begin to occur at 3219-4828 km (2000-3000 mi).
Cause

The O-ring seal between the oil pump screen and the oil pump may be cut, causing aeration of the oil.
Correction

Inspect the O-ring seal and replace as necessary. Use the applicable part number listed below. Refer to the Engine Mechanical sub-section of the appropriate Service Manual.
Parts Information

Part Number Description Qty

12557752 Seal-O/Pmp (O-ring) (F and Y Cars) 1

12563963 Seal-O/Pmp (O-ring) (C/K Trucks) 1

Parts are currently available from GMSPO.
Warranty Information

For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:

Labor Operation Description Usage Labor Time

J1060 Pickup Tube and Screen - Replace F Car 3.7 hrs Y Car 4.3 hrs C Truck 1.3 hrs K Truck 2.1 hrs

[Mike Norris]

Hey Kev,

I had forgotten about the potential oil pump o-ring issue. I have seen vehicle with high miles actually have a very loose o-ring when disassembled. It is pretty straight forward as mentioned in that post. There are two different bolt holes for the oil pump pick up in the pump and which one is used varies from vehicle to vehicle.

When looking at the oil pump from the front of the car with the front cover off, the bolt can either be towards the left and higher side of the pick up or to the right and lower side of the pickup.

If the pick bolt is towards the left and high side like a Corvette, it is tight but can be removed with the pan on and oil pump bolts out to turn it a bit as mentioned. If the pick up bolt is to the right and lower side like the 4th Gen Camaros and GTO's, the pan will need to be at least lowered to get the bolt out.

Either way, it is much cheaper then a new engine :-)

Hope this helps.

Mike Norris

[oestek]

Just completed the o-ring swap. The process is pretty straight forward, we had the lower bolt style tube retainer, so the pan had to come down as much as possible to get the bolt in. Thank God Kelle has small hands, she was able to remove the old and thread the new bolt in... my big hands wouldn't fit.

But HOLY SMOKES was that original O-ring LOOSE! I can't believe it sucked any oil up from the pan with that POS in place.

Before the swap, the 6.0 would startup with around 40psi of oil pressure, then slightly waver as the o-ring would allow air to pass and lose it's minimal seal. We've only run the truck for a few minutes with the new one in place, but startup PSI is now like 65. MUCH better.

RANT: I believe this to be the weak link in the entire Gen III design... one o-ring is the critical element in your whole oiling system. And I bet they all degrade over time. I'm going to change every o-ring on all the LS motor swaps and installs we do in our shop as preventative maintenance. Got an LS1 going into a '59 Biscayne soon, going to get the new ring now.

Still have to drive the truck, but it runs silently now!

[vintageracer]

This should be a sticky for those who are noisy!

[rockytopper]

Not sure if the trucks are the same as the Lsx car engines but it would be wise to buy the kit that uses 2 bolts to secure the pickup tube instead of 1.
Very pour Quality on Gm's part to save what? 5 cents per automobile. The block is already tapped for 2 mounting bolts but the pickup tubes only have a single bolt flange.

[oestek]

I agree, the 2 bolt hold-down would be better... in this case, I wasn't about to pull the motor or drop the axle to pull the pan & tube to convert it, but it would be nice. The block is tapped for it.

[CarlC]

Kevin, a bag of Viton o-rings is pretty cheap and once installed will outlive the engine. I don't mess around with nitrile or other rubber types any more due to the potential of incompatibility with petroleum products, i.e. engine oils, fuels, hydraulic products, etc.

Thanks for following through on this and keeping everyone here in the loop.

[oestek]

Thank you Carl, good idea on the Viton. I used the Fel-Pro ring in the front cover kit, not sure what it's made of, but I'll pursue the Viton rings for the future installs.