69 Firebird getting an LS1 and t56

[T_Raven]

Well some of you may have seen the pics of my 69 I picked up last year. I decided do some work to it so here are some pics from today.

This is when I picked it up in Sacramento last Sept.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/09/DSC00621-1.jpg
Had to rent a second storage unit to put my others in so I'd have room to work
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00764-1.jpg
I guess this is a 283
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00765-1.jpg
Front sheet metal was all loose when I bought it so it came off quick
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00766-1.jpg
Pulled the subframe so I can clean it, weld it up and paint it
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00767-1.jpg
I bought this bad ass old GMC a while back when the propane company my dad works for bought out a smaller company that had this truck. I got it running yesterday and had to fix some wiring on the hoist but I got it working. It came in handy for pulling the engine
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00768-1.jpg
This is what's going in it. LS1/t56 out of a 00 Trans Am. I got it off ebay from a yard in FL and they said it had 90k miles.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00769-1.jpg
Stripped the interior too
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00771-1.jpg
So far this car looks pretty rust free other than the driver's side floor, so I'll have to patch this
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00772-1.jpg
Trunk looks solid
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00775-1.jpg
Here it is until tomorrow
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00770-1.jpg

The plan for now is to repair any rust or damage to the body and get it ready for paint, weld up the subframe, paint it, and install it with solid body mounts and figure out what I want to do for subframe connectors, and install the engine and get it wired. Then from there I can upgrade the suspension and interior as I go along.

[robertjra]

looks good did the ls bolt right up to the stock motor mounts?

[78 Type-LT]

nice start & nice square body dually,,post some pics of that too

[T_Raven]

Didn't get anything done to the car today. Spent the morning cleaning my Raptor's carbs and the afternoon organizing the storage unit. I need to build some shelves so I can put all my crap high and make more room for working on the car. I took some pics of the truck though. I got this for a grand, I was originally going to keep the engine and sell the rest. The crane is kinda cool but since it doesn't telescope it's not super useful and a guy wants it so I'll probably sell the crane. Good body other than some cracked bondo on the hood and the hood kinda started to bend there so I have to shut it gently.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00777-1.jpg
Not sure if this is the original engine, I don't know if GM painted them blue or not. It runs good though and would be much better with a tune up.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00778-1.jpg
Interior is in pretty good shape.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00776-1.jpg

[T_Raven]

Stipped the rest of the firewall and dash today
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00793-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00796-1.jpg
Old AC and wiring
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00794-1.jpg
Removed the gas tank, it's in great shape but I've got a Rick's tank to put in
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00797-1.jpg
Sorry excuse for an exhaust is off, it had a chrome Camaro cowel panel for some reason so that's got to go
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00795-1.jpg
Axle and leaf springs out
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00798-1.jpg
Floor looks good other than the rust on the driver's side
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00803-1.jpg
Trunk floor and frame rails look really good
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00800-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00801-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00802-1.jpg

Gonna order subframe bushings and a floor patch panel tonight and get the subframe prepped while I'm waiting

[78 Type-LT]

looks really solid

[LeighP]

Another good rebuild to watch. :)

[Josh69]

Sweet, I love seeing other '69 bird builds. The car looks like a factory yellow car, not too many of those. Would be a cool color to see on a PT bird. What are your plans for it aside from the LS/T56 conversion?

[Motown 454]

Nice project you have there. It sounds like you have a good plan too.

[T_Raven]

Sweet, I love seeing other '69 bird builds. The car looks like a factory yellow car, not too many of those. Would be a cool color to see on a PT bird. What are your plans for it aside from the LS/T56 conversion?

I'm not sure if it was originally yellow or not, i haven't seen a color under the yellow yet but there is yellow overspray and other things that make it obvious it was repainted yellow, but maybe on top of the factory yellow. I'll probably paint it blue though.

My plan for right now was really just to put the engine in to free up the space it was taking up and get rid of the 283, but you know how things snow ball. If I'm gonna put the engine in i might as well paint the subframe and if I'm going to do that I might as well get solid mounts and weld in some sf connectors and then I can paint the whole floor, but that means i gotta smooth the firewall now too and if I don't mini tub now I'll have to do it to a nicely painted floor. But I want a 4 link too so it would be nice to have all the mount points in before I paint but then I'd have to get wheels and tires, build the 9 inch to the width I want and fab up a 4 link.

For now I just want to get the floor taken care of, mount the subframe and weld it in, paint the under carriage and install the engine. I'll keep the factory suspension for now, do all the body work and at least get it in primer, maybe paint it too. Then as funds allow I can work on the interior and suspension

[STROKED]

Just came across your build sounds like you have it well planed, love to see more progress i'll be watching this.

[T_Raven]

Went to see some buddies for the weekend so I didn't make any progress on the car but Friday I cut the rust out of the floor and ordered a patch panel
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00811-1.jpg
I wanted to check the body and make sure it's not twisted before I start cutting and welding on stuff so yesterday I made some little adjusters so I could level the body
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00806-1.jpg
I used a 360 degree laser level to measure from since the concrete isn't a perfect plane and I don't feel like building a frame bench. I measured the rockers as well as the front and rear suspension mounts. As far as I can tell it's close enough to straight
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00807-1.jpg
Drained my diff, I was hoping I got lucky and someone had swapped in a limited slip but no luck
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00809-1.jpg
Look at the dimpled tube, I've never seen one like it but it looks factory
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00810-1.jpg
I had a local welding shop order in a sheet of 18 gauge so I can make some panels, that showed up yesterday
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00813-1.jpg
After I measured the body I started working on smoothing the firewall
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00814-1.jpg
When I got home my floor panel and Global West subframe mounts had shown up.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00815-1.jpg

[67blacklist]

coming along nicely man, you have a real good base to work with there

-Tom

[T_Raven]

Trimmed my floor and patch panel. I want to spray some weld through primer where it over laps the lower part of the cowel panel. Being in the middle of no where no one had any so I had a body shop order some so it'll be here in the morning.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00820-1.jpg
I went ahead and stripped the sub, I wish I would have remember to do it before I removed it from the car so the springs would've beeen easier to get out with the weight of the car on the subframe.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00816-1.jpg
The factory welds are disgusting. I'll redo a lot of these
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00817-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00819-1.jpg
Ordered some Rust Bullet to brush on the insides of my quaters and a few other places, it showed up today.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00821-1.jpg

[T_Raven]

I forgot to mention this. I bought a wrecked 00 TA while I was in California a couple months ago. I got a smoking deal on it from a Marine that was about to deploy and wanted to get rid of it. t56 car with 55k miles for $2800

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00712-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00714-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00716-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00717-1.jpg

I originally bought it figuring I'd keep the engine and trans, part out the rest and sell the other LS1/t56 I already had. Then I decided I wanted to use it to do a 3rd gen TA swap and put the interior in it as well. But now I'm thinking I'll put the dash, console, and seats in the 69.

[96t/acj]

this will be pretty sic, just stick with it and take ur time. cant wait to see the results.

[srh3trinity]

Nice project. I am jealous of your flock of Firebirds and some of the deals you have scored.

[LeighP]

I've seen a couple of 4th gen interiors in early birds...looks great!

[T_Raven]

Nice project. I am jealous of your flock of Firebirds and some of the deals you have scored.

I get lucky once in a while with a good deal. Bought this tig welder recently. It's a Lincoln Square Wave 175, barely used with cart and bottle. The little plasma cutter is a Lincoln Pro Cut 25. Guy had a pace maker put in and couldn't use them any more. All of this new is $3700, I bought it all for $1300!
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/34703_10150267373335034_673815033_149319-1.jpg

[T_Raven]

Speaking of tig welder I finished welding my frame rails. My tig skills suck but this was a good part to practice on.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00822-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00823-1.jpg

Decided to repair the dented crossmember and make it stronger. Cut out the damaged parts.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00825-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00824-1.jpg

I wanted to weld something in so the new plate couldn't get smashed in by a jack. Plenty of pipe laying around where my dad works so I welded a couple pieces in
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00826-1.jpg

I made the new plate out of 1/8th inch, so it's thicker. I made it to tie both crossmembers together and act as a skid plate
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00827-1.jpg

Here it is welded in
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00828-1.jpg

I'll tie it to the rear of the front crossmember also
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/DSC00829-1.jpg

[T_Raven]

I'm thinking about drilling some holes in the skid plate, or something so it's not just a big plain piece. If anyone has any suggestions for something that would look cool, throw em at me.

[srh3trinity]

The skid plate looks cool. Some holes would be cool, but then again, I think things like that and dimple dyes give a big piece of metal a lot of visual interest.

[Ollie8974]

This is a link to Performance Years for a member who installed a 4th Gen interior in his 69

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629210

[T_Raven]

This is a link to Performance Years for a member who installed a 4th Gen interior in his 69

http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/showthread.php?t=629210

That's actuallyy a GTO dash and I think they were Mecedes seats. But very cool, he has some pics up on here too

[T_Raven]

The skid plate looks cool. Some holes would be cool, but then again, I think things like that and dimple dyes give a big piece of metal a lot of visual interest.

Yeah dimpled holes a sweet, I don't have any dimple dies but maybe I can figure something out

[robertjra]

That looks good I wonder if you did all the front of the frame if that would help with arodynamics

[T_Raven]

Well the insulation I ordered for my 68 showed up so I spent the weekend putting carpet in it and didn't do any work on the 69. Then today I just had to have this beauty. 92 Civic Si, 5 speed sun roof, ac. Didn't realize it was my buddy's sister who owned it until I got there. She was selling it because some dude took the dash out because it needed head lights....go figure. She didn't want to mess with putting the dash back together so she sold it to me for $350. I got it home and had the dash back in place and the car running in about 10 mins. Runs good but I haven't driven it yet. Tires are good, interior is pretty nice just needs some cleaning. Fender and quarter are pretty beat but a battery and some brakes will make it a good driver. I use to be a Honda tech and the dealer I worked for still gives me good deals on parts.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_122558_468-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_123209_128-1.jpg

Did some more work to the subframe. The rear mount holes were rusty and bending down like a lot of them do. I patched all that
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_160329_788-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_160326_227-1.jpg

Cut both layers out but forgot to take a pic, here's the new inner layer welded in
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_165726_612-1.jpg

Fortunately my dad has a porta band. There's a guy on here selling stands for these but I improvised by clamping it in a vice and using a C-clamp to hold the trigger lol. It made cutting the pieces a breeze
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_171747_411-1.jpg

I shot some weld through primer on the inner layers
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_171757_608-1.jpg

And fully repaired, just need to cut the holes
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101101_174645_64-1.jpg

[T_Raven]

Cut holes in the top side of the railes
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00831-1.jpg

I then squared off the rest of the end of the rails and cut holes in the bottom for the lower body mount and bolt to go through.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00832-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00833-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00834-1.jpg

I painted the bottom of it once that was done. I just used semi gloss rustoleum so we'll see how well it holds up
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00835-1.jpg

Here you can see how I squared off the ends. I'll weld a plate on each that will bolt to my subframe connectors so the subframe will still be removable
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00836-1.jpg

[srh3trinity]

Looks cool. What is in the tanks that you use for your stands?

[T_Raven]

Propane tanks lol. They're all empty and I stuck plugs in the valves just to be safe but I haven't blown myself up yet

[Keiths Camaro]

My 16 year old son saw your dually and went crazy. Hes got a '77 Chevy dually Lowered. Hes got some dropped spindles and his air bags to put on it soon. I've got a '69 Camaro in the air waiting for me to finish my front end rebuilt and C5 brake upgrade.

[T_Raven]

My 16 year old son saw your dually and went crazy. Hes got a '77 Chevy dually Lowered. Hes got some dropped spindles and his air bags to put on it soon. I've got a '69 Camaro in the air waiting for me to finish my front end rebuilt and C5 brake upgrade.

Nice I like to see those trucks lowered. If mine were a crew cab I'd be keeping it and lowering it.

[68400BIRD]

Nice idea on the plate. Mine had damage in the exact same spots. Is that going to cause any problems with mounting your front sway bar?

[srh3trinity]

Nice I like to see those trucks lowered. If mine were a crew cab I'd be keeping it and lowering it.
I really want a crew cab square body Chevy. I think they have so much potential. In a perfect world, I would have one lowered and one raised.

[T_Raven]

Nice idea on the plate. Mine had damage in the exact same spots. Is that going to cause any problems with mounting your front sway bar?

Aww crap the sway bar! I wasn't sure if it would be in the way of anything, I didn't think about the sway bar. If it hits it I'll have to trim it or redo it so it clears.

[Keiths Camaro]

My sons truck is the same color as yours and a standard cab also. Its got the Late '90's Neeper Dually wheels on it. Its got a '93 454 in it. He paid $1500 for it. Not bad for a 16 year old. Hes got his 3" dropped spindles, front air bag plates, front 2600# bags, rear 2800# bags, and c-notch brackets. He (and myself) built a '92 Sonoma on bags but sold it before it was totally finished. Not bad for refereeing Soccer and working at Silver Star customs shop in Horn Lake, MS. after school.

[T_Raven]

Made some pieces to tie the rear of the front crossmember to the skid plate.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00837-1.jpg

Here it is all painted taking it back to my storage unit so I can put it in the car and decide how I want the subframe connectors
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00838-1.jpg

Here's the skid plate from above
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00839-1.jpg

Haven't tried to fit the sway bar yet, but it looks like there is room
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00840-1.jpg

And just another shot of the side pieces on the skid plate painted
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/DSC00841-1.jpg

My dad and I are headed out of town to do a job so I'll get back to patching the floor when I get back.

[T_Raven]

Been on the road with my dad for the last week working in NV. We really only did 3 days worth of work but nothing was going right. We made a little money it just took a few days longer than it should have and was a bit of a pain. I wanted to stop in Twin Falls, Id to look at a 68 Firebird a guy had for sale. The guy was asking $3000 but said he'd make me a deal, but I wasn't sure how I'd get the cash on a saturday and we live 6 hrs away from Twin Falls so I didn't want to come back. Friday we stopped in Jackpot NV for the night on the way back home. My dad likes to play the slots which I'm not a fan of and he didn't have any cash on him so I loaned him $100. I went and played some black jack for a bit and lost $60. I went looking for him and found him sitting at a slot machine not playing so I figured he lost the $100. Well he was sitting there waiting for the money he just won. He lost the $100 I gave him and was going to quit but said screw it and cashed a check for $150. After playing $30 of that he won $5000! And then I won $250 off a couple bucks waiting for the lady to bring his cash.

He owed me $2000 from a loan a while back and $200 I'd loaned him on the trip so he gave me $2200, went and looked at the car and talked the guy into taking the $2200 I had in my pocket. It's fairly rusty but it's about what I wanted and I'll sell the 68 I already had and be money ahead and still have a 68. It was originally a Sprint 6 4 speed car but now has a 400 with the original 4 speed. I figure the engine and trans are worth around $700 to me so $1500 for a rusty 68 wasn't too bad.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/73461_10150301624510034_673815033_155597-1.jpg

I had left my 01 TA in Cali so we went and picked it up while we were in NV. I took it off the traler and loaded up the 68. Sent my dad home with it and drove the 01 to Idaho Falls to see some friends. I'll take a few more pics of it when I get home and get back to work on the 69.

[srh3trinity]

Another great Firebird acquisition story. You must be part coondog. I looked for a year before I found mine and you have them fall into your lap all the time.

[robertjra]

i found my 69 camaro in Rupert ID im from Jerome ID it 15 min from Twin falls i miss that place so much

[19 usac]

I love twin falls thay have a great paved oval there. we got to race there a few years back.(usac pavement sprintcars)

[T_Raven]

Some more pics of the new 68. It snowed last night so I wasn't too motivated to do much today. I'll get back on the 69 soon
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143807_631-1.jpg

typical fender rust
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143815_248-1.jpg

Not sure what was going on here but this quarter will need some work, maybe a full quarter
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143822_3-1.jpg

Bondo cracking here
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143833_475-1.jpg

The guy I got it from said the previous guy had left a bag of fertilizer in the trunk for some reason. It rusted through the floor and gas tank.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143843_601-1.jpg

Tail panel looks good so far
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143859_296-1.jpg

Driver's quarter looks ok other than the rust behind the wheel.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143913_805-1.jpg

Driver's door looks pretty rusty. Looks like red paint under the black and not green like the rest of the car so I'm guessing it was replaced in the past
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_143921_835-1.jpg

Interior is pretty trashed, not sure how much is original but the dash is like a gold color and the door panels are green. Kind of a cool color combo with the interior and exterior
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_144004_999-1.jpg

It has a 400 out of a 69 Bonneville supposedly. I'm going to try to pick up the original Sprint 6 later when I'm back down that way.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_144501_679-1.jpg

Looks like it was originally green which is kind of funny because I use to hate green but I've started to really like it and wanted to paint my bronze 68 green.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/20101118_144538_303-1.jpg

It never fails I buy a car planing to modify it and I start to really like the way it was originally. It would bad ass to keep it a Sprint 6, 4 speed car and paint it the original green again and do a few tasteful mods to it.

[T_Raven]

Man if it's not one thing it's another, it's amazing how busy you can be when you're unemployed lol. My buddy's car broke down so we spend a week fixing that, had to fix my dad's truck, a buddy wants me to put a transmission in his car, and if I didn't have enough to do the melting snow flooded the basement so my dad and brother and I were up pretty late vacuuming up water. But I did get a little bit done on the car lately.

I welded in the floor patch. My sheet metal mig welding skills still suck, in the bottom shot you can see I didn't get good penetration when welding between stitches. I guess I'll reweld those spots from the bottom.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSC00857-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSC00859-1.jpg

Took a wire wheel to the trunk floor to get it ready for paint

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSC00860-1.jpg

There's been too much snow on the ground to move any of my cars around but I finally got the storage unit guys to plow the snow, so I moved the wrecked car in and started stripping it. Just finished pulling the engine. I'll be glad when I finally have a proper shop with a lift lol.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSC00862-1.jpg

I set the seats and console in and held the dash up to get a visual of how it will all look to help keep me motivated. I think it'll be pretty sweet, though I'm not 100% sure I want to use the dash and it's a hair wide. I've got to do some brain storming on how to attach the dash and where to trim it. I don't want to remove the entire upper dash panel because it has the VIN on it, but I don't really want to cut it up either. I'll cut the front dash panel off of course though, but hopefully I can figure out how to attach the 4th gen dash while leaving the original upper dash in place, then I'll make a panel and either paint it or wrap it in vinal to fill between the new dash and windshield.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSC00865-1.jpg

[KacyZ28]

looks good and you might wanna start yourself a website finding deals for people on classic cars,for a small fee of course.

[T_Raven]

I've been doing a lot of searching about LS1 swaps but there are somethings I haven't found answers to. I figured I'd ask here before I post a thread. My biggest questions are about mounts, headers and the AC compressor.

I understand the different mount adaptor plates, as far as the standard placement where the bracket shares a bolt hole with the 1st gen mounts and the ones that set the engine back further. but I don't know if I want to use short or tall mounts. Can I use either? This being a Firebird I don't have Chevy frame mounts so can I use either small block or big block brackets and would there be a difference in height?

I want to keep the stock AC compressor on the LS1 and I know I'll have to notch the subframe but some of the threads I've read guys have switched to a different compressor. Is anyone using the stock 4th gen compressor?

As for headers, I know the Hooker headers are meant to fit with the Hooker brackets that set the engine back a little further. Has anyone used Doug's swap headers and which brackets would they fit with?

I've read the Stainless works headers will work with the ATS mounts. I've looked at the ATS stuff and I see they don't set the engine back and that they are pictured with short mounts. My concern with short mounts is that I'd have less room for the compressor and alternator. Will the Stainless works headers work with tall mounts? Will they work with Headman adaptors or any that set the engine back the extra inch or do they only fit with the standard adaptors?

So short or tall mounts?

Small block or big block frame brackets?

Will Doug's or Stainless works headers work with standard adaptors or set back an exta inch?

With either type of adaptor will the mounts clear a 4th gen compressor?

Thanks in advance for any answers or links to threads with info.

[T_Raven]

Ok after more reading I see Tyler from ATS said SW headers won't work with their mounts, and someone else said SW headers were designed to work with S&P style mounts, which actually look like the pattern is the same as the ATS plates but ATS is using short mounts. With all the LS swaps done already you wouldn't think it would be so hard to figure out all the combos that work together.

I did see a pic of one with some S&P adaptor and it looks like there is plenty of firewall clearance so the Hooker adaptors setting the engine back farther would probably still leave plenty of room, but then the issue is header to steering box clearance and AC compressor fitment.

[T_Raven]

Well I figured out the mount and frame bracket questions I had. Found this link on camaros.net http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

Looks like the tall, narrow mounts were 69 high performance mounts and had shorter frame brackets to put the engine in the same spot. So I'll order tall mounts and rather than spend about $150 on adaptors and frame brackets I'll make both for next to nothing. If I could only make poly mounts lol. So I'll order some mounts then mock up the engine as far back and low as I can while still clearing everything. Then when I figure out what I'm doing for headers I can modify the placement of the engine if necessary. Reading up on headers is getting frustrating. The Hookers, Stainless works, and Kooks all look good but are pretty spendy. At close to $700 for the Hookers I think I'd rather spend a couple hundred more for stainless. I'd be willing to make some headers but I was hoping I could find bends cheaper than I have so far. Whether I went with mild or stainless bends I could still save a couple hundred over buying headers and I could make them fit how I want rather than being limited to the ones being made. We'll see, I'd like to get the engine in and worry about headers later, but since headers are going to dictate placement of the engine it's frustrating to not know which ones clear everything with which adaptor/mount combo.

[Z06vet]

I'm in the middle of doing this myself. My best advise is to buy the headers & mounts as a set, if possible. DouG's headers do have matching motor mounts. The other thing you need to keep in mind is your steering setup. Are you are going to use a rack & pinion or steering box? And which box you choose will affect header fit. I see you like to make a lot of your own stuff. I prefer to buy headers/mounts/adapter plates/crossmember etc from the same company. It's nice to bolt everything together & not have to cut, grind, make etc. I had to do this because the subframe I am running is not made anymore & there are not many parts for it. I originally had a set of Dougs headers & mounts, but they would not work with my rack & pinion. I was happy with the quality & fit- and they are reasonably priced. They came with gaskets, bolts, collectors, and O2 extensions. My stainless works came with nothing... althought they are sweet. Also, will you be going with a hydraulic clutch? Its the way to go with an LS swap. You can use the factory slave & master with the firewall adapter bracket. Mock the bracket up & weld it to the firewall so you can close out the opening before paint. You can also use the 3" aluminum drive shaft, but it will need to be lengthened. I hope all this makes sense.. Scott

[T_Raven]

Yeah the general agreement on all these threads is to get matching parts but even with the right mounts I've read plenty of cases that headers still didn't clear everything. I don't have frame brackets and after reading up about the different ones I see that for small blocks you have the short mounts and matching brackets, and tall mounts with matching brackets. They put the engine in roughly the same spot but slightly different, maybe enough to cause header fitment issues. I can't justify spending $150 on frame brackets and adaptor plates when I can make them so cheap and put the engine where I want it. Same with a trans crossmember. I did order mounts already, I decided on short wide ones because they were cheaper and give me more room to play with engine placement. I've been looking at the Dougs headers and the price is good. I couldn't make headers and have them coated any cheaper. I might buy a set and put them on and make mounts to put the engine where everything will have clearance.

[Bob's68]

Haha, damn going the same rout i am. Wish I had the money to get stuff done that fast, and the skill.
My donor, yeah farmers totaled it. didnt even mess up either quarter panel. Damn that firebird you picked up has the wheels i was looking for.

[T_Raven]

Well I won't be using those wheels so if you want them they are for sale lol. I've kinda put my 69 on the back burner while I fix a few other things. I'm taking a little trip to see some buddies right now and when I get home I'm going to pull the engine out of my 89 to find out what's knocking. If I can fix it fairly cheap I'll do that, but depending on what's wrong I might sell the L98/700r4 set up and put the LS1/t56 in it. I had two LS1s at one point so that I could put one in the 69 and one in the 89 but I sold one to free up some cash to put towards school. So if I do the swap on my 89 I'll slow down on the 69 and take my time getting the body right and worry about getting another engine later. And if I ever get settled into a spot where I won't have to move it anytime soon I'll get back on my 67, that's my baby. Too many projects! lol. A wise man once told me to do one at a time or I'll never finish any so I'm trying to keep that in mind.

[Bob's68]

How much are you looking to get for those hotwheel wheels?

[T_Raven]

$300 + shipping, but I might be headed to Cali in March. I could bring them down.

[BuzzKillian]

I was at the same place you are a year and a half ago.
Witch plates do you get?
What headers?
What do you do for for the crossmember?
I am using the stock SBC frame mounts.
After a lot of research, I bought the Doug's Headers. I think they fit great. I made my motor mount plates out of 1/2" 6061 T6 aluminun. (attached pictures). With this combo, it puts the back of the block in the same place as the SBC. If you compare a SBC to a LS, you'll notice that the heads on the LS come amost to back of the block. Which makes it really close to the firewall.
I also made to tranny mount. (attached pictures) I had to clearance the trans tunnel just a little. (about a 3" section where the fire and tunnel meet.)
I am using a steering box out of a '85 T/A. with the quick ratio P/S pitman arm for a '69 Z/28.
As far as the AC compressor goes, It won't work with this setup. I went with Vintage Air and mounted the compressor high.
I'm using F-body acssys. and I did use the BFH method to clearance the frame for the Alt.
If you have any other questions, just ask.
4411944120

[T_Raven]

So far all I have are short poly mounts. I'll make adaptor plates, frame brackets and a trans crossmember to put everything where I want it. I'll probably go with dynatech headers because the price is good especially for 1 7/8" primaries. I want to get the headers then make frame brakets to put the engine in the lowest and furthest spot back I can while still having header clearance everywhere and good ground clearance.

As for accessories I'm pretty bummed to see I can't fit the 4th gen compressor in with just notching the frame. I'll be using a vintage air setup for AC so I'll get a compressor that will work with that and mount it where the 4th gen compressor was. Or maybe by the time I'm ready for all of that I'll just spring for an aftermarket accessory drive.

[Bob's68]

What part of Cali?

[96t/acj]

updates?

[Josue]

Yes, please!

[robertjra]

Ya we need something!!!!!!

[rohrt]

I loved the skid plate. I will be interesting to see how the dash gets mounted too.

[T_Raven]

Hey guys, guess I forgot to mention I put this one on hold and decided to put the engine and trans in my 89. That one is done now and there's a thread in the project updates section, but I'm doing a few things to my 67 right now. I'll be updating that thread soon. I have a 6.0L long block sitting in the shop, I want to piece together everything I need to make it a running engine and put it in the 69. I'll either try to find a t56 or put the t400 behind it that will be coming out of the 67. The 67 is getting a t56 as soon as I can afford the bellhousing and rebuild kit.

[T_Raven]

Teaser update. I've been remodeling my shop and I'm about done. Gotta get everything organized now so I can start on my cars. I got a used driver's side door and cowl panel. I ordered some parts for my 67 so I ordered a hood and windshield for the 69 while I was at it. You can see a little bit of what I've been doing to the shop.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/IMG_20130424_155737_660_zpsc8ef9d0a-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/House/IMG_20130424_155737_660_zpsc8ef9d0a.jpg.html)

I picked up some tubing today to build a frame bench and rotisserie. The 67 is going to be the priority right now but the 69 will be next up on the rotisserie. I bought the yellow Camaro to donate it's engine and trans to the 69. The kid said the bottom end froze up. He only wanted what the 6 speed alone is worth so I had him drop it off at my house while I was in Afghanistan. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet. Other than the hood I thought it was pretty ugly lol. People seem shocked I want to part it out. We'll see, maybe I can fix it and sell it for enough to fund and engine and trans for the 69.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/04/IMG_20130425_135351_383_zpsd6069bf3-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/House/IMG_20130425_135351_383_zpsd6069bf3.jpg.html)

[T_Raven]

Built my frame bench and rotisserie. I was planning to work on the 67 first, but since it's drivable and has AC, I figured I might as well drive it for the summer and work on the 69. Here's the 67 registered and insured for the first time in 8 years. One reason I haven't been driving it is that the wheels are too wide and the quarters rub, but I just took air shocks off the 69 so I threw them on here and pumped them up so they won't rub lol.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130510_183529_552_zps62532107-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/House/IMG_20130510_183529_552_zps62532107.jpg.html)

Here's my rotisserie almost done

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130508_151116_315_zpsc7ba1e59-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/House/IMG_20130508_151116_315_zpsc7ba1e59.jpg.html)

Made fixtures to fit a first gen and put the 69 on it yesterday

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130509_204927_052_zps91591005-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/House/IMG_20130509_204927_052_zps91591005.jpg.html)

And today I took everything off the shell and rolled it on it's side

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130510_181359_348_zps9d2ec76b-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/House/IMG_20130510_181359_348_zps9d2ec76b.jpg.html)

I spent a total of $380 on tubing and nuts and bolts to make the rotisserie. I'm going to clean up the floor and firewall, finish the patch panel I installed in the floor, smooth the firewall, and make some subframe connectors.

[T_Raven]

Any suggestions for paint for the underside of the floor? I'm leaning toward Eastwood's ceramic chassis black. I don't know if POR-15 or Rust Bullet would be better, or something else?

[BirdsThaWord]

Any suggestions for paint for the underside of the floor? I'm leaning toward Eastwood's ceramic chassis black. I don't know if POR-15 or Rust Bullet would be better, or something else?

I'm seeing more people using the truck bed liner stuff lately. Seems really durable, I think that's the route I'll take when I get there. Keep pluggin along bro!

[T_Raven]

Yesterday I removed a bath tub

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143855_631_zpsc8d63bbe-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143855_631_zpsc8d63bbe.jpg.html)

And today I removed a wheel tub lol

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143342_337_zps69588e62-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143342_337_zps69588e62.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143350_208_zps4e594a55-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143350_208_zps4e594a55.jpg.html)

I also removed the dash

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143540_785_zps10505256-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143540_785_zps10505256.jpg.html)

Took all the HVAC stuff out of the 00 TA the dash and seats came out of.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143553_941_zpsbe25a762-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143553_941_zpsbe25a762.jpg.html)

The used door I picked up a couple months ago had been painted a time or two but looked decent inside. I figured it would have some bondo but managed not to see how bad it was. This area of the original door is good though, so maybe I can make one good one out of the two.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130517_103028_213_zpsdaacbbc4-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130517_103028_213_zpsdaacbbc4.jpg.html)


I stripped down my donor last week

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130514_095037_572_zpsfd44d91f-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130514_095037_572_zpsfd44d91f.jpg.html)

A rod tried to come out the side of the block, but I've had a 6.0 long block laying around. I wanted to put it in the 69 but needed all the peripheral stuff and a transmission

Here's the 6.0

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143410_840_zps59874147-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143410_840_zps59874147.jpg.html)

And the t56 out of the Camaro. The input shaft bearing is loose so I'll rebuild it with a stage 2 kit from Tick Performance.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143531_789_zps5865dfc6-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143531_789_zps5865dfc6.jpg.html)

A buddy of mine sent his friend over that needed a radiator for his 00 TA. I have two here so he came to get one. He ended up leaving with the radiator, the wheels off the Camaro, and my car trailer and gave me some cash and the turbo kit he took off his TA. I've always planned to turbo this 6.0 I just couldn't decide if I wanted to put it in the 69 or put it in my 89 and put that LS1 in the 69. I'm leaning towards the turbo 6.0 in the 69 now that I have most of what I need to turbo it. The inter-cooler is on his car still so it's not in the pic and I need a new turbo, but the kit has nice stainless shorty headers, a Tial waste gate, HKS bov, and Snow meth injection. He doesn't remember what brand the hot side is, I've never seen this kit before, but it looks pretty nice though i may need to modify some pipes

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/05/IMG_20130521_143522_384_zpsac922ed0-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130521_143522_384_zpsac922ed0.jpg.html)

[T_Raven]

Well I keep dragging new projects home and getting side tracked. Getting this 69 back on it's suspension with the engine and trans in is one of my priorities so I can have it roll again and not constantly take up a spot in my shop. It's been sitting like this for quite a while

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20130623_130938_660_zpsf1a3ce71-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20130623_130938_660_zpsf1a3ce71.jpg.html)

I'm trying to clear out the parts and projects I don't want and consolidate the stuff I'm keeping. I've got 3 47-54 GMCs. I pieced this body together cheap and used a left over Firebird, subframe, engine, trans, and axle to get it on the road. Spent about a month putting it all together and after I fix a couple little things I'll see if I can make some profit on it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140528_153755302_zps6066c951-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140528_153755302_zps6066c951.jpg.html)

[T_Raven]

Back to the engine and trans. I bought the 98 Camaro to use the t56 and front engine accessories. After parting the car out, I profited $75 and still have the trans and everything I need to use the 6.0.

I bought an early 6.0 with a long crank and iron heads with a spun bearing, complete with truck accessories, intake, and harness. I need all that for the good 6.0 going in my 67 GMC, so the bad long block was basically free. The long crank won't work with a t56 anyway, so I bought a good crank, 317 heads, one piston to replace the one with the spun bearing that hit the head, new bearings and gaskets.

damaged crank and piston

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20131203_135439_238_zpsddcbfa3c-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20131203_135439_238_zpsddcbfa3c.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20131203_215419_810_zps374fa698-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20131203_215419_810_zps374fa698.jpg.html)

Block clean and new crank bearings

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140610_141743411_zpsed9d1a7c-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140610_141743411_zpsed9d1a7c.jpg.html)

rotating assembly back in

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140610_191355412_zps3772c623-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140610_191355412_zps3772c623.jpg.html)

New gaskets. LS gaskets are not cheap but I found the best prices at gmpartsdirect.com

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140619_154852445_zps8ede5a12-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140619_154852445_zps8ede5a12.jpg.html)

Almost complete. All stock LQ4 stuff, new bearings, new lifters and guides, 317 heads, LS1 intake, it'll get the F-body oil pan and accessories then I'll bolt the t56 to it

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_183508017_zps6389a132-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_183508017_zps6389a132.jpg.html)

[T_Raven]

Just for fun, here are some pics of the damage to the LS1. I pulled the pan off to get it ready to go on the 6.0 and here's what I found

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_185419728_zps23cb7280-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_185419728_zps23cb7280.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_185439020_zpse5c69545-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_185439020_zpse5c69545.jpg.html)

I know the early rods are considered weaker than the newer ones, but everyone says the rod bolts are the weakest link. So I wondered what broke first. All 4 rod bolts from the two broken rods were in tact

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_185659928_zps685ccd40-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_185659928_zps685ccd40.jpg.html)

Both pistons were cracked

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_192123562_zps2039c39f-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_192123562_zps2039c39f.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_193239479_zps10444bb1-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_193239479_zps10444bb1.jpg.html)

cylinders all dinged up

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_193307038_zps5393f20e-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_193307038_zps5393f20e.jpg.html)

Where the rod was peaking out

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_193404602_zps20e163fe-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_193404602_zps20e163fe.jpg.html)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/06/IMG_20140628_193409513_zps97373432-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140628_193409513_zps97373432.jpg.html)

[T_Raven]

Notched my oil pan today. It's the first aluminum I've ever tig welded. I've only mig welded AL before. Not as hard as everyone makes it sound.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/IMG_20140702_173538681_zps5ebf90ed-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140702_173538681_zps5ebf90ed.jpg.html)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/07/IMG_20140703_113959231_zps33fb4b45-1.jpg (http://s248.photobucket.com/user/stokesdope/media/67/69%20Firebird/IMG_20140703_113959231_zps33fb4b45.jpg.html)