Hyundai/Kia is impressing me

[T_Raven]

I can't remember a Kia or Hyundai that I ever liked. Just always saw them as bland, cheap, economy cars.

I saw a Kia Forte Coupe at a stop light the other day and I was pretty impressed by what a good looking car it is
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/KiaForteKoup3-1.jpg

I was just watching Burn Notice and saw the new Genesis coupe. A V6 RWD coupe from Hyundai?!!! Hyundai/Kia is stepping up their game.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/Hyundai_Genesis_Coupe_Concept_2007_02-1.jpg

[DartorDemon]

The V6 hyundai is not the show stopper that you might think. Its a mid-high 14 second car.

However, the base is an ego crusher. the base has a 2.0 turbo 4cyl. With a few tweaks they can be insanely fast.

I went to the drags one night and watch a 4cyl turbo with some mods(just a few weeks after they were released). It embarressed a new SS camaro all night long. It was doing low 13s.

[Vegas69]

Not me, I saw two newer Hyundais on fire within a week.

[Tony_SS]

The V6 hyundai is not the show stopper that you might think. Its a mid-high 14 second car.

However, the base is an ego crusher. the base has a 2.0 turbo 4cyl. With a few tweaks they can be insanely fast.

I went to the drags one night and watch a 4cyl turbo with some mods(just a few weeks after they were released). It embarressed a new SS camaro all night long. It was doing low 13s.

lol... Wanna get away?

[79-TA]

Kia just finished their first ever season of racing. Kinetic Motorsports and Kia entered two Forte Koups in the Grand Am Continental Tires Sports Car Challenge.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The Hyundai is a pretty cool car. The V6's match up pretty well with the new V6 Mustangs.

[ArtosDracon]

Their bland eco-boxes are pretty nice places to be compared to what else you can get for the price too. I tried to get my girlfriend to look at them but she just couldn't get over their bad looks, so we paid just as much for a year old 46K mile cobalt with warranty.

[trapin]

I too dig that Kia Forte. I also love the looks of the Nissan's and Mazda's. Toyota is the worst and Lexus is nothing more than a super-Camry.

Pretty soon the entire Auto Industry (both foreign and domestic) will be on the same page making beautiful, reliable cars and trucks with equal quality and good looks.

And when that happens there will be no 1 company that dominates the industry.

.....and that'll be a good thing too.

[formula]

their styling and marketing departments are top notch now--within a few years they'll be a force to be reckoned with, for sure.

Keep in mind that you get what you pay for, though: I was working with honda recently to develop a small crossover (the project got canceled so I can talk about it now, haha) and we benchmarked against their small SUV, among other cars...from an engineering standpoint they're still stuck in the mid-late 90s, and have no problem making sure they meet FMVSS and nothing else. I'm hoping this attitude changes with their new 2011 stuff, though--it looks like they have worked so hard on everything else...

[Tony_SS]

Dont they have a 10yr/100k warranty though?

[formula]

a warranty doesn't protect you from a crash.

[LateNight72]

a warranty doesn't protect you from a crash.The two vehicles mentioned in this thread, both averaged 4 or 5 stars in their NHTSA reviews.

[silver69camaro]

A close friend of mind is a mechanic at a Ford/Hyundai dealer. He always is disappointed with the quality of Hyundai cars, and says he wouldn't touch one with a 10-ft pole.

[John510]

My first car was a Hyundai Accent. It was the biggest POS I have ever owned. 6 months after owning it I sold it and bought a Honda.

[DarkBuddha]

a warranty doesn't protect you from a crash.

The two vehicles mentioned in this thread, both averaged 4 or 5 stars in their NHTSA reviews.
And both would probably handle a crash better than most stock chassis'd vintage muscle and pony cars... or at least the occupants would probably be better protected. Kinda a bummer to say that too.

[Tony_SS]

I dont even want to think about what my Suzuki Metro would do in serious crash.

[absintheisfun]

I learned something really interesting about Hyundai the other day. Back in the day when they were having huge reliability problems and they were seen as throwaway cars, they brought in a new CEO who bluntly stated, "We are not trying to reinvent the wheel."

go out and find what works in the automotive world--we apparently can't make a good part, so you go find what works and we are going to license it.

Soooo supposedly, outside of design, Hyundai doesn't make anything new. They license parts from other manufacturers and incorperate them into their vehicles. It may say Hyundai, and they may manufacture it, but it is engineered from other companies.

For example, the transmission from the Sante Fe SUV? Licensed from Porsche!

I solute them for finding their niche in the automotive world, and finding a way to make good cars and not charge 8 arms and 6 legs.

[formula]

The two vehicles mentioned in this thread, both averaged 4 or 5 stars in their NHTSA reviews.

Under the old system, which NHTSA recently revamped in an attempt to "make the safety ratings more meaningful" (their words, not mine--source: http://translogic.aolautos.com/2010/10/05/behind-the-scenes-nhtsa-s-new-5-star-safety-rating/)

meanwhile:

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/08/16/nhtsa-reportedly-opens-kia-soul-investigation-after-steering-sha/

http://www.leftlanenews.com/iihs-rates-small-suv-rollover-safety-hyundai-kia-suffer.html

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=586

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=513

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=587

http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=484

I'll say it again--from an engineering standpoint they're behind. This is evident in that they are more reliant on suppliers than most OEMS (don't let anyone lie to you though--every OEM abuses suppliers like crack) and in their materials choice and manufacturing methods, but none of this is very obvious to the enduser. The closest you can see of it is stuff like the IIHS ratings (which go above and beyond the BS NHTSA standards) and quality surveys. Based on what I saw on the IIHS website, things are on their way up with their new models--which makes me happy. It makes me happy on a global level that a korean company can build world-class cars now--that's the sort of thing that restores my faith in global market liberalization.

Dont believe me that the NHTSA standards were BS? I'm working right now on a project to make this pass NHTSA:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/ezone600-1.jpg

Since I happen to be in charge of this one, I'll give an example of NHTSA-level standard: in a rear collision, pretty much the only regulation is that the car has to not leak enough fuel to explode and burn everyone alive in the car after an impact. And guess what? The two vehicles that have had the most fuel fire-related fatalities over the past 20 years both PASSED the NHTSA test.

Not only is passing NHTSA easy enough that a bunch of grad students can do it (i.e. slightly easier than if a caveman can do it), we're pretty sure it'll be 4-5 star (under the old standard) without much work. This thing is based on a golf cart.

I'm pretty sure that Hyundai uses BorgWarner transimissions, by the by: http://www.mechdir.com/press/catalog/1429/index.html

[Derek69SS]

The Genesis coupe is a competitive autocross car in stock class, but they put 19s on all their "performance" models, so R-comps are stupid expensive. They're also camber-challenged, so you can cord those expensive R-comps in a weekend.

Great handling cars though... I rode in one with an instructor at an autocross a couple years ago, and it was pretty incredible for a stock class car.

[Tony_SS]

And guess what? The two vehicles that have had the most fuel fire-related fatalities over the past 20 years both PASSED the NHTSA test.
l (http://www.mechdir.com/press/catalog/1429/index.html)

And what are those???

[formula]

73-86 chevy trucks: http://www.usautoinjurylaw.com/cases/fires/fueltanks.htm

"the 1973-87 GM C/K pickup which had the most lethal fire defect in vehicle history;1 side saddle gas tanks located outside the frame which have resulted in over 2,000 fatalities in fire crashes, at least half of which deaths were due to fire, not trauma. The 1973-87 GM side saddle C/K pick up meets the new FMVSS 301. Any fuel system integrity standard that the worst vehicle in crash fire history can meet is an inadequate standard."

ford crown vic: http://www.safetyforum.com/cvpi/

"The Ford Crown Victoria (and its twin Lincoln Town Car and Mercury Grand Marquis) also stand witness to the inadequacy of the new FMVSS 301. Over 100 individuals have died in fire crashes of these vehicles since 1992.4 At least 18 police officers have burned to death.5 The 1992-2001 Ford Crown Victoria meets the new FMVSS 301. Any fuel system integrity standard that the vehicle that has burned to death more police officers than any other vehicle can meet is an inadequate standard. "

http://www.autosafety.org/fmvss-301-cas-reconsideration-petition-%E2%80%93-january-15-2004

[Nothingface5384]

My sister just bought the kia forte koupe....think is really pepey for a 4banger and handles likew rails...wouls make an awsome auto-x car!

they have a turbo model comming out soon if not already!

The hyundai genesis with the new v8 should be cool...this is what the tiburon should have been in 2003!

[Tony_SS]

73-86 chevy trucks: http://www.usautoinjurylaw.com/cases/fires/fueltanks.htm

"the 1973-87 GM C/K pickup which had the most lethal fire defect in vehicle history;1 side saddle gas tanks located outside the frame which have resulted in over 2,000 fatalities in fire crashes, at least half of which deaths were due to fire, not trauma. The 1973-87 GM side saddle C/K pick up meets the new FMVSS 301. Any fuel system integrity standard that the worst vehicle in crash fire history can meet is an inadequate standard."


I can see why a law firm would push those claims for their business... Did you know about the Dateline story they ran, and had to retract about those trucks? They rigged the whole test and a firemen on the scene told GM about it. Dateline had to retract and admit, live on air, that they rigged the explosions in their tests.

So naturally, my BS detector goes off when I hear about these claims.

Got to 1:05 in this clip:

IVt4Ygdw8tM

[formula]

1: doesn't change the fact that, even at conservative estimates, 100s of people died from fires in the truck--or that it passed FMVSS. And by the way, GM paid the NHTSA 50 million as a settlement over the truck issue, even though their trucks passed spec--what's that do to your BS meter?

2: doesn't have anything to do with the fact that crown vics have similar problems--and also passed FMVSS.

3: all of this is nitpicking and doesn't have anything to do with hyundai/kia being behind the times.

[96Z28SS]

I posted this on lateral-g last week.
I thought it was funny, click on all th videos and build you own.

http://www.subaru.com/content/static/fightmediocrity/index.html

[Tony_SS]

1: doesn't change the fact that, even at conservative estimates, 100s of people died from fires in the truck--or that it passed FMVSS. And by the way, GM paid the NHTSA 50 million as a settlement over the truck issue, even though their trucks passed spec--what's that do to your BS meter?

Is that an admission of guilt or a result of a cost/benefit analysis?

So was the Corviar the most dangerous car on the road?

[formula]

Is that an admission of guilt or a result of a cost/benefit analysis?

So was the Corviar the most dangerous car on the road?

You know what? I had this whole long spiel typed up, when I was reminded of my favorite Woody Allen quote and realized that if I continued this conversation you'd only eventually beat me with experience.

So, here's hoping that this topic will eventually get back on track: Hyundai/Kia=Good? Discuss.

[Tony_SS]

Those are valid questions. You are the one with the experience, it sounds like you're in the industry. So that's why I'm asking.

Were they design flaws? Or did Chevrolet cave because they were faced with a special interest witch hunt and public hysteria?

[formula]

I must have gotten the wrong idea--I have no problem providing info, but I don't really want to end up in an argument.

There was a design flaw in the original corvair suspension--the virtual swingarm length was all wrong and could lead to the suspension effectively "tripping" over itself. The original VW type 1 had the same problem. This could, unfortunately, lead to pretty nasty flips pretty quickly--imagine your rear suspension just suddenly going from in your wheelwell to pointing straight down under the car. To my knowledge, GM became aware of the problem pretty quickly and fixed it.