350 small block or a 454 big block?

[Hotrod69]

I blew my engine (327 sbc) on my 1969 camaro ways back and you know how the ole saying goes; Life Happens. I got caught up in my school, work, and family stuff. However finally im getting around to getting a new engine and in the process make it a pro-touring car . So me and my pops sat down and started discussing the plan.
And were debating either a 350 or 454 with a 4l80e. This car will mostly be used for weekend cruises and weekend racing (gotta have fun ya know) with some highway driving as well. Im loving the power of the 454. However i was informed by my local engine shop guy that you shouldn't go with a BBC unless it was gonna be a drag car?
Any input, suggestion, advise we can get on the pros and cons. and which one mite be a better choice. and suggestions on where to get one would be great!

[LS1NOVA]

Do the 350. Pick up a used 96-00 350 vortec, throw in a cam and intake. Easy to get 350hp on the cheap.

[ill steez]

I'd def do the big block.

a) really easy to make big power

b) it's a big block. they sound awesome.

c) better resale on the car

but on the bad side, they typically aren't as reliable as small blocks (in my experience). as a weekend car it shouldn't be a problem though.

[LeighP]

If you're looking for handling, compare the weight difference....

[Rod]

Small Block or Big Block that's one of the age old questions, like the chicken or the egg, chocolate or vanilla, Betty or Veronica, so i have one more vote for the 350 just stroke it out to a 383 and its the best of both,,,,, to me anyways

[Ripped]

If you are truely doing a pro tour car and want the best cornering, then lighter is better on the front end.

late 60's early 70's muscle cars are definitely front heavy.

Stroking a small block is an option. SBC's with stroker kits are cheap. All of your pulleys, everything will fit.

For power, there is no substitute for the big block, but it's going to be heavier on the front, unless you go to expensive aluminum blocks etc.

Good luck

[Removed user as requested]

Considering you are not racing it non-stop go the 454. The bigger the engine the less hastles you will have with it and the less maintenence required. More revs = more money spent to keep it running good. Besides with all the aluminium parts you can make the 454 weigh as much as a 350 so then you really get the best of both. Did I mention the 454 with the same power as the 350 will chew less juice also? Make cruising last longer between gas stations and when you nail it... all that torque... mmmm...

[gmjj13]

go with the big block. you can still make it handle. not to mention, there's nothing like the torque of a big block.:6gears:

[JChilders]

I bought a new 350 a few years ago. Its a great engine and it gets me around. That being said I am still kicking myself for not getting a big block.

[71RS/SS396]

Why not do an LS swap, BB power, SB weight, especially if you're looking at the 4l80 then you have the pcm to control the trans.

[ROBS6T8]

^^^ x2 ^^^

[camaro34567]

I think you would really like the bb but only if you have a very good cooling system. They dont cool very well unless you get a big radiator and fan setup.

[soopertrucker]

Go with both, a bored and stroked 454 small block.:thankyou:

[Gitter Dun]

No brainer, small blocks are capable of making the same power as big blocks today, plus your not carrying the weight.

[70camaro406]

No brainer, small blocks are capable of making the same power as big blocks today, plus your not carrying the weight.

What he said!!:cheers:

[JEFFTATE]

Ditto on the small block with big block torque and power .
You only need 500hp for a fast street car anyway .
The built big block is overkill .
And they get no , I mean no , gas mileage .
Build a 500 hp small block , or a 500hp LS motor .
You'll be happier in the long run.

Now if your budget will only allow for a stock-ish 350 small block or a stock-ish 454 , then pick the 454 , you'll get a lot of torque that will accelerate the car.
The extra weight can be tuned out with the correct springs.
It is easier , however to make a smallblock equipped car handle.

My car has a low budget / low-tech 350 / 300hp engine.
It runs ok. But it lacks the torque to really accelerate well.
It handles better than it should .

If I had my choice , I would have a stroked LS3 motor .( or an LS7 )

[Hotrod69]

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions!
Ya nothing beats that old school torque and sound of a BB.

but from what ive been reading, it mite be best to go with a 350 (or 383) and just like Jeff said i only really need 500hp (im hoping to get to 600hp eventually) for a "fast" car. so im guessing a small block with 400-500hp will do for now. and later down the road drop a procharger on it.

Yes i looked into doing a LS conversion. However in the next 2-3 years i was planning on getting a c6 and just thought it would be better if i kept the camaro as my pure old school american muscle weekend fun car.

[Zanie]

However in the next 2-3 years i was planning on getting a c6 and just thought it would be better if i kept the camaro as my pure old school american muscle weekend fun car.

Well if that's the case, I'd vote Big block. Nothing says "excessive musclecar" like a big block!!

[ho428]

The only time a BB impresses anyone in a street Camaro is when the hood is open. Takes a lot to hook up that much torque unless tire frying is your thing.

Street-performance, 383 stroker.
Street-Show car. Old School BB 427 W/Aluminum heads.
Show off your wallet. 502 Crate

[JEFFTATE]

Ya nothing beats that old school torque and sound of a BB.

High compression small blocks with big cams sound good too .

[MattG]

LSX x3!!!

However, if you want to keep the cost down, go with a big inch Motown smallblock.

Nothing wrong with a Rat, but you can do a 454 small block, keep the weight down, and have more fun and reliability with the small block any day of the week.

That being said, do what your heart tells ya and I bet you will love it no matter what (did I mention the 454 LSX)?

Matt

[fst64_v8pwr]

Small block parts are CHEAP and easy to make power.

But .... there is no replacement for displacement.

[Removed user as requested]

Ditto on the small block with big block torque and power .
You only need 500hp for a fast street car anyway .
The built big block is overkill .
And they get no , I mean no , gas mileage .
Build a 500 hp small block , or a 500hp LS motor .
You'll be happier in the long run.


I have seen 512ci Strokers with 550hp on a 850cfm carb running 20mpg (if you drive laid back). Vipers with the 8.2 Litre get more mileage than a ferrari at the same HP because of its size. I say, Good Luck in your SB at 500hp running even 12mpg. The more power = more wild cam, wild cam = no gas mileage. Small motors can make big power but they become race cars with the parts and the mileage is shot down to 4-8mpg vs the 15-18 you could have got with something bigger. Dont forget small motors also stress alot more to make that power whil the big engine makes it in its sleep. It is also cheaper to build big power with a bigger engine than a smaller one.

If Handling is the primary goal and fuel consumption is whocares as its a car that sits on a race course, then yes, build a small block even up to 600-700hp and have fun. If its something you want to cruise in and get somewhere and not spend huge $$$ on the maintenance of a motor thats stressing its guts out, and something that will absolutelly go hard from the word go rather than at 6000-8000rpm and still handle pretty well for the occassional race, then BB will always win.

Dont think for a second that a SB will cost you less to keep running right, you will be very dissapointed in the end.

[Hotrod69]

Thank you everyone for more of you guys input.

I guess it's coming down to the money. Cause the cost to get a sbc with that bb torque is adding up real quick, real fast. however if i were to go with a bb, what are some things that i will need to change on my drivetrain and stuff?

I know New headers, new mounts, possibly new radiator, new transmission (or rebuild my 350turbo i currently got sitting in the garage now), is there anything else?

[Rod]

Thank you everyone for more of you guys input.

I guess it's coming down to the money. Cause the cost to get a sbc with that bb torque is adding up real quick, real fast. however if i were to go with a bb, what are some things that i will need to change on my drivetrain and stuff?

I know New headers, new mounts, possibly new radiator, new transmission (or rebuild my 350turbo i currently got sitting in the garage now), is there anything else?

you will need big block front springs also

[79-TA]

Decide what you want to do with your car. If auto crossing somewhat regularly is in the plan, then you'll soon realize there aren't that many points where you can pin the throttle with a small block, let alone a big block on a tight twisty course.

Torque can be multiplied with gearing. Having an overdrive will let you maintain good freeway manners while having a nice aggressive first gear, even with a "low torque" small block.

If it's just going to be a cruise/drag race car that only ever sees the goodguys peanut autocrosses, a big block won't really ever be a hindrance. If you're just really into big blocks and love the gobs of lazy low revving power, then do that and have a blast.

[Hotrod69]

Alright thanks! i think im going with a 350 or a 383 for right now. maybe later ill end up going with a BB, however for now SB fits my budget.
(i wont have to make the conversion changes from sb to bb)

Anyone got some forum links or know of some good heads, cam, anything to get my power up to bb level?

[Removed user as requested]

Just make sure you check the cost of everything first. To get the SB up to the power of the standard BB may cost you more. Or it will end up costing the same, in that case you may aswell have ended up with a BB. But it may not cost more, just from my experience it does, however, all my cars started out with BB in the first place so yeah. Also find out howmuch power your current Gearbox can handle as it may not need upgrading, then all you would need is a Big block K frame and hinges, not much else would need changing. Just do your homework before spending the cash.

[MonzaRacer]

OK Ill weigh in here, AS for me I loved my 402, so its getting fresh rings and bearings and dump some compression, Its got a smallish hyd came for now that really makes pulling power. I used older oval port small valves and made great torque, used 355 posi, built th400 and it would ,driving to and from work run in the 14 to 16 with no good straights to actually see what its cruise mpg would be but I would say in the low 20s if I worked my driving style.
That being said I would have went 4l60 or 4l80e if I was still driving her, and this was in 4000lb 70 monte.
Now in my 84 Caprice I may run the 400 or even step up to a 4l80e . Depends on funds and availablity.
I am also building ,my 77 Monza and have decided to build it like SHOOVE69s Camaro, 2 small T4 turbos but Ill use an LT1 intake.
Its either a th350 or 4l60(e). it runs 3.42 rear gears right now.
while no replacement for displacement I loved the BB torque and I intend to , down the road as I get more proficient, turbo the BBC. Or if I can get one a Vortec or Procharger.
A lot of small BBC can be had cheap, let you dig up all the parts and get situated and as others said throw on aluminum heads intake and headers and you have SBC weight and BBC torque.
SBC you really need to scream for specific purposes and BBC you just build for flat torque curve.
Heck with all the race parts around you can even sometime pick up good aluminum BBC blocks, if its ok but worn cylinders a good machine shop can install liners to down size the bores to more reasonable diameters for cheap. I almost had a wet aluminum BBC, and while it was clean and buildable the huge pistons offset the fact I could throw 8 sleeves in make it std BBC and have many over bores and build my 402 rotating assembly into a 427( I love 427s, not to brutal on torque can take a little rpm and tada super fun.
But it got away. I am still working out my SBC project as I am building a 3000lb Monza, so too much torque isnt good so I am building a 6 in rod 302, if I find some good 350 std pistons Ill bore my 283 to 4in, if I find some 350 030 or bigger Ill buy spacer bearings and build my 350 4 bolt as its what I have.
My little turbo motor is going to wear 202/160 double humps(461s) and Ill mod intake/heads as needed.

Now for a economical sbc, dig up a set of aluminum heads, L98s or what ever you can source cheap or a set of Vortec (906?)heads cut for more lift.
Build a good solid 355, you can get good deals on forged rods on ebay, or rotating assemblies at www.ohiocrank.com.
Now if you start with later 87 up 1 piece rear main block, look at the GMPP LT4 HOT cam, with 1.6 rockers its 525 lift but step up to comps 1.65 roller rockers and get 541 lift, and it lives infront of pretty much any trans, th350 built use a Saturday Nite Special converter from TCI(this is in my Truck).
Now as for an up grade a set of AFR 180 or 195 heads will pull down 500/500 if properly tuned, been there done that.
Lot of people will pick bigger cams more popular cams but let me tell you I have sold the crap out of them, with a carb use a bronze tipped fp push rod and GM mellonized dist gear.
My 70 Monte was bbc, my 71 had a 350 with the HOT roller and could knock down over 20 easy in 4000lb car.
And the HOT cam is a torque builder.
Roller block just makes it easy. LT block even easier.
My big block will most likely get the Chet Herbert B6J and a set of hyd roller lifters if I can swing the lifters, one year newer open chamber heads to drop compression, and add in bigger valves, I have a 780 to tweak so I may try to turbo and do a blow through setup, dont know yet.
383s dont impress me, never have even when I built the crud out of them, the rod to stroke ratio is a biotch in my opinion but its just mine, sooo.
As for a 454 sbc figure a solid $5k minimum short block(remember you need anaftermarket block and machine work) to get it right, and you can do a solid 355 short block for much less figure in the $1000 to $1500 range(if you pick and choose and dont get CC hungry) and use off the shelf cam/lifters an stuff.
Even if I had to buy new pistons my 302 wont be over $1000 total before turbos/induction.
If you want I can do some desktop dyno runs on different combos and email them to you, you can also do it with comps cam help software. and it will give you cam choices.
Good Luck

[Glock 18]

9mm vs .45...after all these years the debate rages on. I've carried both in my job. I can get the job done with either using correct shot placement and the right ammo! SAME as small block vs big block. I guess your "right ammo" could be the correct parts you use to get the job done. I personally am building a 454 with a target of 500HP. QUALITY aluminum BBC heads ain't cheap, so I'm gonna use iron heads. To relieve some of the weight, I put the battery in the trunk. I may also ditch the heavy power steering box and steering components for the lighter rack & pinion steering. That will lighten the front a little more. So there's no RIGHT or WRONG, just different ways! Enjoy the build and good luck!