should i get an alignment?

[69camarokid]

I just got an alignment a month ago, but since then ive installed a new steering box, inner and outer tie rod ends, a new ilder arm and pitman arm, adn new tires.

I have a firestone free lifetime alignment, so they dont cost me anything. Should i go get a new alignment now that ive changed out pretty much the entire steering system?

[Norm Peterson]

Changing just one tie rod end is enough reason to get a fresh alignment.

What sort of use does the car get, how hard do you push it normally, and will your Firestone guy set it to anything besides "1969 factory preferred" specs?


Norm

[TT302Z28]

If it is free....alignment would be a great idea.

[Jasons72]

Absolutely i would get an alignment, i have a feeling your toe is going to be very off.

[69camarokid]

Changing just one tie rod end is enough reason to get a fresh alignment.

What sort of use does the car get, how hard do you push it normally, and will your Firestone guy set it to anything besides "1969 factory preferred" specs?


Norm

in that case an alignment it will be. The car is driven on a 3 to 4 times a week basis and sees the track about once a week.

Yeah theyll set it more aggressive, but last time they did the outer edges of the tires were gone in about 3 months. I had these settings put on it: 3 degrees of positive caster and .25 degrees of negative camber. This was with stock control arms, i now have CPP tubular control arms.

What do you guys recommend. I dont want something that will eat up my tires fast!!! Im a broke ass college student so they need to last me a while!

[John Wright]

Keep the toe fairly close and don't get too carried away with the camber and it shouldn't eat tires.

[Norm Peterson]

in that case an alignment it will be. The car is driven on a 3 to 4 times a week basis and sees the track about once a week.
What kind of track, and what was the toe?

-0.25° camber would probably be good for easy daily-driving and dragstrip use, but way too low for autocross, open-tracking, canyon running, or even DD use where the cornering is consistently "hard".

I have my suspicions that your toe following the last alignment, plus the very mild camber setting, plus some hard cornering is what ate your front tire outer shoulders. There may be a couple other contributing factors.


Norm

[69camarokid]

i didnt specify the toe before, i dont klnow much about alignment settings.

What do you guys recommend for some spirited daily driving with a short track run once a week. I go to adams raceway in riverside fortheir tuesday open grip driving. its a short 14 turn mile long course.

[Bjkadron]

If the outside is going fast then a MORE aggressive alignment will actually make your tires last longer. Go figure. You need more negative camber. For hard cornering I would go with closer to .5-.75* negative camber, staying with +3* caster and about 1/16 toe in. I am running a hair over a degree of -camber and I am still wearing out the outsides. But I am on 14" tires that roll like beach balls.

Oh and a rule of thumb for alignments, If you change anything in the suspension or steering you need to get one done.

[formula]

If the outside is going fast then a MORE aggressive alignment will actually make your tires last longer.

This.

Camber=leaning the top of the tires inboard, which, if the tire were perfectly solid, would basically make the lower outer surface of the tire lift off the ground.

If you're tracking once a week, you need to be at atleast .75* negative camber--ideally, since they're free, the best would be to actually do two alignments:

--do a "street" alignment with between .5 and .75 neg camber, and then tie all of those shims together (use the fender shims that have a little hole in them and then run a ziptie through them all).

--do a "track" alignment with 1-1.25 neg camber, and then tie all of the shims that aren't part of the "street" shim stack together seperately.

That way, when you go to the track, you can just pop the second set of shims in and have a much more aggressive setup to both improve performance and decrease tire wear while you're out there destroying, then pull the track shims out when you're done and sacrifice a little bit of performance for tire longevity during the week.

hope this makes sense....let me know if it doesn't, I'll fire up paint and make some pretty pictures! haha

[Norm Peterson]

You've just described what I used to do when I was autocrossing the Malibu. You get to where you can swap the settings in under 5 minutes/side, alone, and that counts the jacking time to unload the adjustment.

Except that my street and competition settings were a LOT more than half a degree apart. More like 1.5° - 2° different.

-0.75° is fine for a DD as long as you still make it corner fairly hard. But for serious work, you'll probably want -2° or so.

If you do maintain two sets of specs, you may have to compromise the toe on one or the other (or maybe both) if you aren't going to be tweaking that, too.

It does depend on how stiff your car is in roll, and whether the geometric roll center is above or below the ground. A car that's visibly stiffer in roll won't need as much 'help' from setting static camber way negative, and having the roll center above grade at least makes the camber gain go in the right direction.


Norm

[Bjkadron]

Oh yeah... Some people use shims to align their cars. That would work great!

[monteboy84]

Just a thought, but the cause of your tire wear was more likely due to your loose tie rod components than anything to do with your alignment settings.

-matt

[formula]

You've just described what I used to do when I was autocrossing the Malibu. You get to where you can swap the settings in under 5 minutes/side, alone, and that counts the jacking time to unload the adjustment.

Except that my street and competition settings were a LOT more than half a degree apart. More like 1.5° - 2° different.

-0.75° is fine for a DD as long as you still make it corner fairly hard. But for serious work, you'll probably want -2° or so.

If you do maintain two sets of specs, you may have to compromise the toe on one or the other (or maybe both) if you aren't going to be tweaking that, too.

It does depend on how stiff your car is in roll, and whether the geometric roll center is above or below the ground. A car that's visibly stiffer in roll won't need as much 'help' from setting static camber way negative, and having the roll center above grade at least makes the camber gain go in the right direction.


Norm

That's (partly) why I suggested only a half degree boost in camber on the track setup--that should push a 1/64 toe out to approximately neutral or a touch still in, to keep things stable.

[Nessumsar]

Justin, I would recommend -1.5* camber, 4.5-5.0* caster, 1/16-1/8" toe in. That is what I have had on the Nova from the start. I would actually like to run -1* more camber, but that is me.

The only thing that will prematurely wear tires is Toe, keep it under an 1/8" and you'll be fine.

You'll love how the car handles with a more agressive setup.