Track Ready, Street Friendly Fuel Tanks From Rick's and Vaporworx.

[CarlC]

https://www.pro-touring.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=32921

https://www.pro-touring.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=32913


Rick’s Hot Rod Shop is proud to announce their new series of competition ready, street friendly, and show winning stainless steel fuel tanks. Utilizing the latest in OE technologies these new tanks are a complete fuel delivery system that makes installation and maintenance easy while keeping the overall cost affordable.

What makes this new system special? Rick’s, in cooperation with VaporWorx, have incorporated a modern high-performance OE fuel pump module into the hand crafted Rick’s tank designs. The fuel pump module offers benefits such as:
1) Original Equipment reliability. It’s hard to beat OE testing and validation for long-term performance and reliability.
2) All-in-one design. The module has a built-in fuel filter and pressure regulator. Only a single line out to the fuel rail is needed. The return lines, external filters, regulators, extra plumbing, and all of the other parts and mounting space required for a traditional return-type setup are no longer needed. Fuel heating is also minimized since no external return line is needed.
3) OE sealed wiring connections. All power and fuel level sending signals route through a single OE sealed connector.
4) Multiple ohm range fuel sending units can be used including the early 0-90 ohm type and a more modern 40-240 ohm OE unit.
5) OE fuel pump module seals, cam rings, and fuel pressure regulators are used. Need a new part in a hurry? They are as close as your GM dealer or auto parts store.
6) Fully serviceable through the fuel pump module mounting ring. The tank construction has been designed to allow for servicing of all components without the need for special tools. All that is needed to empty the tank of serviceable parts is a Philips screwdriver, Channel Lock pliers, and side cutters.
7) All stainless tank construction. The fuel pump module mounting ring is machined from 304 stainless tubing and TIG welded to the tank for reliability.
8) 620 horsepower capable @ 58psi using 13.5v input voltage and a 0.5 BSFC. Perfect for many Chevy, Ford, and Dodge EFI engine conversions. Voltage boosters, such as the Magnuson Magnavolt, have shown an increase in fuel delivery up to 750hp.
9) Superb fuel delivery even under low-fuel conditions. Extensive track and real-world street testing have shown excellent results with the Vaporworx fuel module option. The fuel pump module also ties into a corner pickup system in order to use the maximum amount of available fuel even under demanding track conditions.
10) Many new designs also have a long-range, increased volume option.
11) Modified tanks to accommodate larger exhaust, offset leaf spring brackets, etc. are also available.



https://www.pro-touring.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=32916

This new design allows fuel system installation to be significantly easier than past designs. Since only a single pressure line to the engine is required there is no need to mount pressure regulators, fuel filters, return lines, clamps, etc. Just install the Rick’s tank as you would a stock design, and plumb in a single pressure line to your engine fuel rail. It is possible to have aftermarket tubing companies modify a stock hard fuel line with the connections of your choice to make routing simple and clean.

This new design has been extensively tested in both the real world and laboratory. Road course testing has shown that the new tank design is very capable to less than one gallon of fuel remaining in the tank. Also, in the very capable hands of Mary Pozzi, the tank was subjected to five consecutive (no breaks) one-minute high-speed autocross runs, followed by 10 minutes of fun time around the course. Starting with just under four gallons in the tank, the fuel delivery was flawless. Laboratory tests have confirmed that at very low fuel levels when only one corner pickup is used, i.e. hard cornering, that just over one minute of full pump output can be delivered to the engine before the module reservoir runs dry. That’s serious performance.

So when it’s time to get a new fuel system for your fuel injected project, please give Rick’s a call. We’ll be happy to discuss your project and help you consider the options, benefits, labor considerations, and overall cost so that the best fuel system decision can be made.
Thank you for thinking of Rick’s Hot Rod Shop tanks. We look forward to serving you.


http://www.rickstanks.com

[email protected]

[Mkelcy]

Carl: That looks great. Even better, it looks like it will work. Where do I send my money and how much do I send?

Are operators standing by?

[CarlC]

Now that's an open ended question that I like! Just keep adding zeros Mike! I've been testing this system for five months to make sure it did what I wanted it to, and so far it has not let me down.

Vaporworx is me. I've been working on the designs above for the past 11 months. I'm the design side of this system. Rick's is the fabrication and sales side. For pricing and sales Hector at Rick's is the guy to talk to.

My goal is to turn OE fueling solutions into designs that are practical for the types of cars that we have a passion for. The OE's spend millions designing these systems so why not use them? In that light, my hope is to share the knowledge that I have learned along the way. I'll be an open book about the performance characteristics of this new design.

I've been lucky enough to have several other members help me to get these ideas off the ground, and they deserve a lot of credit.

First, that really nice 3D working model was done by Lance-W. Lance and I are very much alike in the way we think about things. I would start to bounce an idea at him and he'd finish my thought. He came up with ideas and different perspectives that helped to make the design cleaner and easier to build. I'm a CAD novice, but he makes is look easy. Thank you Lance.

Larry Callahan also helped in that he was able to assist with making prototypes of the module mounting ring. But, more importantly, Larry has this great website that allows us to share experiences, thoughts, needs, etc. I can't fathom how much knowledge is shared here and how much I have benefited from it.

Cris at JCG also gets a hand. He listened to my ideas with patience and had the trust to move forward with them. Much Gras Amigo.

Questions? Fire away.

[parsonsj]

Nice stuff Carl. Frank and I are working with Hector on one for Unfair already!

jp

[MrQuick]

Congradulations Carl, very nice design.

but I must say I am not a fan of them fuel module locking rings...many a busted knuckles in my day.

Which tool is required?


Vince

[CarlC]

Thanks Vince.

Unlike an OE design where the "legs" of the tank ring are thin, the legs on this design are very beefy. So, all that is needed is to R&R the cam ring is a large pair of Channel Lock pliers. One jaw on the side of the ring leg, and the other jaw on the cam ring outer diameter notch. The Channel locks provide more leverage than a designed socket/tool, and there is better accessibility as well. The piloting diameters of the mounting ring for the cam were also designed so that it would be an easy one-man, one-tool operation. Also, there are provisions in the ring to help the cam ring to rotate easier. A simple Philips screw acts as a locking mechanism.

Using a standard o-ring'ed flange was considered but it has several disadvantages. The primary disadvantage is that the flange would need to have threaded holes, and they are not blind. Hence, there would be a tank penetration for each screw. Making the flange thicker so the holes could be blind would be expensive and heavy. The retaining ring would also be pretty large in diameter, close to 7-1/2", and have a bunch of machined holes and counterbores. Making the mounting ring to fit a $15 OE cam ring made the most sense from a cost and safety perspective.

The side cutters remove the zip tie that holds the corner pickup transfer tubes to the center tab on the front wall of the tank.

JP, Unfair might need just a little more pump!

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Congradulations Carl, very nice design.

but I must say I am not a fan of them fuel module locking rings...many a busted knuckles in my day.

Which tool is required?


Vince

Looks like a spanner wrench?

Great job Carl. You said it was coming, and 24 hours later you whipped out the tech. Single line too! Thx Bro....so glad it's a Rick's fit/finish. Can't wait to hear more about it!

[Turbo67camaro]

That looks great! It is about time.

Is it the type of pump and pickup that allows the use of a single fuel line?

[wellis77]

This is GREAT! I was planning a custom Rick's tank anyway, but this makes the product that much better in the end. Thanks for all your work.

[John Wright]

I'll have to go back and digest the original post again,


so, no return line or vapor/vent line?....is the cap vented?....something must let air in to replace the space as fuel is pumped out.

[CamaroAJ]

so, no return line or vapor/vent line?....is the cap vented?....something must let air in to replace the space as fuel is pumped out.

2) All-in-one design. The module has a built-in fuel filter and pressure regulator. Only a single line out to the fuel rail is needed. The return lines, external filters, regulators, extra plumbing, and all of the other parts and mounting space required for a traditional return-type setup are no longer needed. Fuel heating is also minimized since no external return line is needed.

i would have to guess the cap is vented. i'm sure they could add a vent and sealed cap. thats what i'll need for my car.

[John Wright]

yeah, it has to be vented somehow, otherwise it would collapse in on itself if the pump was strong enough....LOL

[Lance-W]

The one shown in the CAD model above is for a 69 car. It has the vent up near the fuel cap. All the tanks/years have been modeled and they all have the appropriate vent locations.

[skeeters65]

2) All-in-one design. The module has a built-in fuel filter and pressure regulator. Only a single line out to the fuel rail is needed. The return lines, external filters, regulators, extra plumbing, and all of the other parts and mounting space required for a traditional return-type setup are no longer needed. Fuel heating is also minimized since no external return line is needed.

i would have to guess the cap is vented. i'm sure they could add a vent and sealed cap. thats what i'll need for my car.


That is my biggest problem with my DSE tank. Venting and gas spillage from venting!
How does this tank fix that?

Car is a 69 Camaro. I was told vent caps are a no go for these cars due to fill spout location.

[GRNOVA]

Great idea! Can this design be adapted to current Ricks Tanks? I just purchased one last year.

[XLexusTech]

Those look great... and mortgages are cheap these days... :-)

seriously how much for such a tank?

[CarlC]

There is a provision for a vent on the neck as Lance describes, or a vented cap can be used. Me, I'd run a Stant vented cap if possible but have the provision for the neck venting option as well. The neck vent may also be incorporated into a 1/4" NPT bung on the front wall of the tank (see pic below.)

The location of the tank and filler neck on 1st gen cars makes it very difficult to control every bit of liquid and vapor. It's especially difficult on a '69 car since the filler neck is so short. Using a charcoal canister and a sealed fuel cap correctly means a large canister, hoses, solenoid valves, etc. These are not exactly elegant for our needs. That problem is currently stirring in my brain.

Tim, talk to Hector at Rick's about retrofitting your tank. He has a method to be able to do a retrofit. The photo below is a standard Rick's design that was modified internally with everything in the 3D model. His recessed tray may be different depending upon what you need.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hector at Rick's is the guy to talk to about pricing and sales, or talk to one of Rick's dealers such as Frank at Prodigy Customs or Cris at JCG Restorations.

[John Wright]

The location of tank and filler neck on 1st gen cars makes it very difficult to control every bit of liquid and vapor. It's very tough on a '69 car since the filler neck is so short. My 70 uses a vented cap....and it leaks fuel. I would love to see the vent on the neck used ...maybe that vent could use a longer(tall) hose to elevate the vented end above the fil neck so that it doesn't spill fuel?...just thinking out loud, just not sure where to route that extra hose

[CarlC]

Routing an upward hose can be done but the chances of liquid spillage are still there as well as vapor leakage. Only a small vent hole is needed.

I helped put in a full vapor recovery system into a 1st gen car. It worked well but it was big and bulky.

Fuel leakage occurs during hard driving and is a nuisance on hidden gas caps. My '68 also leaks fuel but the body-mounted cap leaks on the bumper during spirited driving. In the garage there is no vapor smell. Making sure that the neck and cap sealing surfaces are in good condition is important so that fuel leakage is minimised.

[James OLC]

Glad to see that you got this together Carl. Too bad that I have to have one now - lol...

[CarlC]

Too bad that I have to have one now - lol...

I wanted it to be done last March for you. ARGH!

[BossaNova]

Yeah, me too!

Guess I didn't spend enough money the first time around.


Great idea! Can this design be adapted to current Ricks Tanks? I just purchased one last year.

[MattG]

Looks like a great tank.

Does the new tank address the inaccurate fuel gauge issue that most of us experience?

Also, for a tank in a '69 camaro w/QuadraLink, what is the approximate capacity?

Last but not least, are there any options on the pump? 620hp is a normal Ls motor these days with over 700-800 happening. I have the Bosch pump in my current Rick's tank and it is great.

Nice job,

Matt

[parsonsj]

so, no return line or vapor/vent line?....is the cap vented?....something must let air in to replace the space as fuel is pumped out.With Carl's permission, I just wanted to remind folks Mike Norris and I sell a nice venting solution for these tanks. No more gas spillage (on the road or on the track) no gas smell in your garage, and no need for a vented cap.

II Much, Bad Penney, the OLC Camaro, MotiV8r, FUel, and many other cars are using it successfully.

jp

[Mkelcy]

With Carl's permission, I just wanted to remind folks Mike Norris and I sell a nice venting solution for these tanks. No more gas spillage (on the road or on the track) no gas smell in your garage, and no need for a vented cap.

Link?

[parsonsj]

Mike,

Good question. I have a pdf installation sheet, but no good links and photos about it. I'll fix that and post up something. In the meantime, maybe I can convince Larry to post a pic.

Edit: we'll be using the setup on Unfair, so I'll install it there and capture the details.

jp

[Larry Callahan]

If I don't have a pic I will take one tonight. It really works great.

[Larry Callahan]

John, is this a pic of them?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/fourcolors-1.jpg

[The WidowMaker]

instead of everyone calling hector at once, can we get him to post some prices along with the ability and price to upgrade existing tanks?

ive got a custom check ball version that hasnt seen fuel yet. im just wondering how much better this will be, will i be able to use the bosch pump i have and how much money to get this better version?

[CarlC]

Thanks Matt.

A lot of the previous problems with rapid gauge sweeps and inaccuracies are due to the inductive type sending units. Using a traditional float-type resistor unit helps a lot. I've even put in a modified stock/reproduction 0-90 ohm sending unit and had good results. The 40-240 ohm sender is a GM unit and attaches to the fuel module.

There are plans for a higher horsepower version. Before putting a lot more money and time into this venture we need to make sure that there will be an ROI, and 600hp is the sweet spot of the market.

With all of the variations out there I can't say what the volume would be for them all. The module and mounting is modular and can be adapted to most any tank.

[CarlC]

Hector is not an internet guy. He's a super fellow, but the 'web is not his gig. With all of the variations available a phone call will go a long way toward getting exactly what you need.

The module is a complete system. Pump, filter, pressure regulator, reservoir, etc. Your Bosch pump will not work with it. If the pump requires replacement it is intended that the module be replaced. The pump in a non-replaceable item. However, for what you get with the module, it's a very reasonable price. Think $225 for a replacement module vs. $100 for a GSS340 255LPH.

How much better is it? Traditional designs will have the fuel pump uncovered during hard driving starting at about 3/8 of a tank. That means your favorite looping freeway on-ramp is off limits, and track days are an exercise in keeping the fuel level well above 1/2 tank. Do checkballs and doors help? Yes, but they do not keep the pump fully immersed in fuel, the primary cooling method for the pump. So, when the fuel level gets to 3/8 - 1/4 tank the main body of the pump is uncovered. These pumps, like the Walbro GSS340, are not intended to run like this. They are just a pump on a stick put into an uncontrolled vessel. So, the big advantages of the module are:

1) Fuel pump immersion keeps the pump cool.

2) Venturi pumps keep the reservoir full of fuel even during low fuel levels in the tank. I've driven the car until just over one quart was drained from the tank.

3) The reservoir allows fuel to be pumped even when fuel flows away from the reservoir.

4) Equalization valves keep the reservoir full of fuel even at low fuel levels and the ignition key off. No wait-time for priming.

5) Minimal external plumbing.

[John Wright]

Rick's web site says that the prices start @ $899(for the carb tank) and go up from there depending on options/applications/etc.

[MattG]

Thanks Carl

[BonzoHansen]

You appear to have made my fuel decision for my 67 easy.

there are 2 different tanks, and one has 2 different filler necks, for 2nd gens....just sayin'.....

[Bow Tie 67]

$899 is for a basic sumped tank, give Hector a call he's very easy to talk with. ( whoops john added more info to his post )

The quality of welds ect..... Primo!!

[parsonsj]

John, is this a pic of them?Almost. That's the same basic envelope but in a catch can configuration.

jp

[CarlC]

Thanks for the lead-in Mark about cost.

Here's some food for thought when considering an EFI fueling solution. I'm not going to get into the actual cost of the tank, that's a discussion that needs to happen with Hector since there are so many variations available. So.....

There is the price of something, and then there is the cost. Price is what you pay up front, cost is what you pay over the long run. The analogy I like is "how much did your shoes cost?" I don't know, I'm still using them.

The standard in-tank pump aftermarket EFI tanks sold today are an external regulator/return type. There are typically two routes taken, the C5 Corvette FFPR mounted near the tank or a separate FPR and filter closer to the engine compartment.

The 'vette FPR is the least expensive way to go.

FFPR: $45
Russell -6 quick connect fittings: $60
Teflon hose: $40
Teflon hose fittings: $50
Additional fittings: $15

So for roughly $210 it can be adapted. Can it be done for less money? Sure, but clamping a rubber hose on an end not designed for it is not a generally accepted and safe method to contain high pressure fuel. We made safey the first priority. I don't like fires one little bit, especially with my two young boys in the back seat.

The separate FPR and filter setup is more expensive. For a standard Aeromotive FPR, filter, adapters, gauge, hoses, and misc. parts will be approximately $500.

Assume the cost of the pressure line to the fuel rail to be the same for all of them.

Add in at least a day of labor to install them .

So, the initial price of a standard tank may be lower, but what are the rest of the parts going to cost? How much space will it take to mount them all? How much time? If I need to fix something on the road how hard will it be? Can I get parts? Are any of them going to be more reliable than an OE-type system?

This setup is not for everyone. That’s the beauty of choice. This setup does however, IMO, have the best of all worlds; OE reliability, on-track capability, and parts availability.

[CarlC]

You appear to have made my fuel decision for my 67 easy.

there are 2 different tanks, and one has 2 different filler necks, for 2nd gens....just sayin'.....

Thanks BH!

Stock configurations: 2
Clipped corners for exhaust.
Trimmed aft for relocated springs.
Narrowed.
Increased-volume option.

Mix those up and there's a lot of different options, and each one affects cost. Then there's 1st gens, Chevelles, Novas, Mustangs, Challengers, etc. It's crazy the number of options that are available. It makes my head spin!

[Nessumsar]

I recently began looking into fueling solutions for my Nova, and have been astonished that no one has made a hybrid tank (newer OE pump, stock style tank) before. It makes too much sense for no one to be doing it.

Nice work Carl!

[BonzoHansen]

On the vent deal, for cars like my 77 Z28, why can't a simple vent line run to the canister to the engine, just like stock? The LS motors appear to be all setup with solenoids to deal with evap. And you need evap to be legal in CA for swaps - check the GM eRod package, comes with evap setup that looks similar to a 4th gen setup.

is it just not pretty enough for people or are there technical obstacles?

[parsonsj]

On the vent deal, for cars like my 77 Z28, why can't a simple vent line run to the canister to the engine, just like stock? The LS motors appear to be all setup with solenoids to deal with evap. And you need evap to be legal in CA for swaps - check the GM eRod package, comes with evap setup that looks similar to a 4th gen setup.

is it just not pretty enough for people or are there technical obstacles?That sounds like a good solution to me. It's possible that many find it too complicated, or don't know how to connect it all up, or (like me) didn't realize it was something one can buy.

jp

[BonzoHansen]

Thanks BH!

Stock configurations: 2
Clipped corners for exhaust.
Trimmed aft for relocated springs.
Narrowed.
Increased-volume option.

Mix those up and there's a lot of different options, and each one affects cost. Then there's 1st gens, Chevelles, Novas, Mustangs, Challengers, etc. It's crazy the number of options that are available. It makes my head spin!

What I mean is there are 70-73 tanks, 74-77 tanks and 78-81 tanks, with 74-81 being the same tank with different filler necks due to tailpan changes. In general 74-81 don’t get the love the 70-73 cars get for a lot of things, and I think that is a swing & miss by the aftermarket because I think people more readily modify later ones because they aren’t so ‘collectible’ and they made a whole lot more. Spectre flat out told one of the guys at nastyZ they have no intention of making an EFI tank for 74-81. That is total failure. So make sure your guys deal with that and they will sell some tanks, especially when you weight total costs.

/soapbox.

1970 124,901
1971 114,630
1972 68,651
1973 96,751
404,933

1974 151,008
1975 145,770
1976 182,959
1977 218,853
698,590

1978 272,631
1979 282,571
1980 152,005
1981 126,139
833,346

I gotta look out for my 2nd gen peeps. :2nd:

[BonzoHansen]

That sounds like a good solution to me. It's possible that many find it too complicated, or don't know how to connect it all up, or (like me) didn't realize it was something one can buy.

jp

Right? Seems to me evap lets you run a non-vented gas cap, which might remedy the fuel spillage issue?

[parsonsj]

Non-vented cap is the key, for sure, to prevent fuel spillage.

My solution gets you to a non-vented cap, but does vent some vapor to the atmosphere.

jp

[John Wright]

I gotta look out for my 2nd gen peeps. :2nd::thankyou:Attaboy Scott! :cheers:

[CarlC]

10-4 Scott. I misread your meaning in your post.

The version we put into a friends car was out of a late 2dn gen car. It's just not an elegant system. That's hopefully one of the things I'll tackle in the near future.

I like JP's canister as well.

[BonzoHansen]

Non-vented cap is the key, for sure, to prevent fuel spillage.

My solution gets you to a non-vented cap, but does vent some vapor to the atmosphere.

jp

Jeff can probably get us GM part numbers used in the eRod setup. You can hide it under the car or in the trunk or where ever. On the 4trh gen IIRC it is on top of the tank. Hey, the early 2nd gens had some evap contraption behind the rear seat, might fit there.


10-4 Scott. I misread your meaning in your post.

The version we put into a friends car was out of a late 2dn gen car. It's just not an elegant system. That's hopefully one of the things I'll tackle in the near future.

I like JP's canister as well.

I need more concise rantings, lol.

[Rybar]

Non-vented cap is the key, for sure, to prevent fuel spillage.

My solution gets you to a non-vented cap, but does vent some vapor to the atmosphere.

jp

John, I'm very interested in your kit. Please advise us.

Thx Ryan

[CarlC]

How about a little fuel module tech?

Digital cameras. You have to love ‘em.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

This the bottom of the fuel module used in the new tank. #1 is where high-pressure fuel is received into the venturi pump manifold. #2 is the bottom of the venturi pump for the main reservoir. #3 is the bottom of the venturi pump for the corner pickups. #4 is the equalization valve. The fuel pressure regulator is the silver canister.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The large hose is the regulated pressure output. It attaches to the module hat that eventually goes to the fuel rail. The small hose is a high-pressure bleed for use in the venturi pumps.

So what does this all do?

The main thing to remember is that for best performance and maximum life the pump needs to be completely submerged in fuel at all times.

Let’s start with the venturi pump. A venturi pump uses a restriction to create a low pressure zone. That low pressue zone can be used to draw fuel from a fuel bowl on a carburetor. It can also be used to fill the module reservoir. I like simple analogies, so let's try this. Take a hose with a nozzle into a pool and turn it on full-blast with a narrow stream. Hold the nozzle under the water but pointed up so that the column of water exiting the pool will just dump onto the deck. A lot more water is coming out of the pool than going in. What’s happening is you are trading the energy from the moving high-pressure fuel to lift a larger volume of low pressure fuel into the reservoir. It's not an exact analogy but it's easy to visualize. There are no moving parts in this pump so they are bulletproof reliable. So…..

#1: High-pressure fuel bleed from the pump. This is the small hose in the photo above, runs down the side of the module, and attaches to the manifold on the bottom of the module.

#2 & 3: High pressure fuel is fed into the venturi pumps.

#4: The equalization valve, a one-way valve, allows fuel to flow in, but not out. So when there is mid-level fuel in the tank fuel can run into this valve to fill the reservoir. When fuel levels are very low no fuel will run into the valve. The venturi pumps keep the reservoir full during this time. When the pump is turned off and the level of the fuel in the reservoir is higher than that in the tank, the valve closes and keeps the module full. The valve also closes when fuel flows away from the module during hard cornering.

The fuel pressure regulator is changed since the stock version provides too much pressure. An adapter is needed to fit another GM fuel pressure regulator so that a constant 58psi is delivered to the output.

From an engineering and design standpoint there are many things to consider before swapping in a module. Fuel pressure, fuel volume at pressure, installed height, venturi performance, and module volume all come into consideration. For you that like numbers, here's the lab testing results…..

Output pressure: 58psi.
Output volume @ 58psi/13.5v: 200LPH.
Horsepower capacity: 655HP @ 13.5V with a BSFC of 0.5.
Output volume @ 52psi/14.7v: 260lph.
Venturi performance: Effective to 45psi. Below 45psi the venturi pumps cannot keep up with the pressure pump output.

The horsepower number above is different than what is in the original post. Why? There should be some safety built into output rating. Over time the pump may lose some of its performance so it’s better to have a little more than not enough.

The venturi pump ties into a corner pickup system. These pickups have a screen across their inlet that act as both a filter and diaphragm. As fuel runs away from the pickup the fuel remaining in the screen acts as a diaphragm to close the flow valve in the pickup body. The venturi pump will pull from the least restrictive source, so if air is available, it will take that. So, the suction provided by the venturi pump acts on the screen covered with fuel, and closes the valve. Now air cannot be sucked into the venturi pump. When fuel runs back to the pickup the valve will re-open since there is a small bleed hole in the valve.

OK, someone has to have some questions…..

[parsonsj]

My "canister" as Carl calls it, is a liquid/vapor separator. Vented fuel and vapor is trapped in the canister, and the liquid is returned to the tank, and the vapor precipitates out, turns into liquid and also returns to the tank. You add a breather filter to allow filtered air into the tank as the gasoline level is consumed by the engine.

It's downside is that it needs to be mounted above the tank, and it all works via gravity. Some folks object to putting fuel thingies into the trunk which is where this packages best.

Here's my installation instructions, which has a decent diagram about how it is supposed to be installed.

[ErikLS2]

On the vent deal, for cars like my 77 Z28, why can't a simple vent line run to the canister to the engine, just like stock? The LS motors appear to be all setup with solenoids to deal with evap. And you need evap to be legal in CA for swaps - check the GM eRod package, comes with evap setup that looks similar to a 4th gen setup.

is it just not pretty enough for people or are there technical obstacles?

This is what I plan on doing. The cannister that comes with the eRod kit, altough I have not seen one, is probably the one to go with. Then, just have the PCM control the purge solenoid which sits up on the engine. You then just need a line from the tank to the cannister then on to the purge valve. All the other stuff for EVAP monitoring that the PCM does is not needed and I'm assuming can be deleted with software. This would also require a fairly small sized cannister (easier to locate in the car)and you get to use your sealed cap so no spillage problems or venting anything to atmosphere.

I'm a ways away from attempting this but the only real challenge I forsee is can tuning software still allow purge without all the other EVAP system testing crap?

[James OLC]

My "canister" as Carl calls it, is a liquid/vapor separator. Vented fuel and vapor is trapped in the canister, and the liquid is returned to the tank, and the vapor precipitates out, turns into liquid and also returns to the tank. You add a breather filter to allow filtered air into the tank as the gasoline level is consumed by the engine.

It's downside is that it needs to be mounted above the tank, and it all works via gravity. Some folks object to putting fuel thingies into the trunk which is where this packages best.

Here's my installation instructions, which has a decent diagram about how it is supposed to be installed.

I have one of John's seperators in the trunk for the rear end (ultimately vented out of the car) and have never... ever... had even the faintest wiff of oil or trace of liquid. In the near future I will have one for the fuel tank mounted right beside it with absolutely no concern, whatsoever.

[JEFFTATE]

Nice work Carl !
I will be in touch when the time comes to buy a fuel tank..

[Bow Tie 67]

So, lets say down the road I end up needing higher fuel delivery, are there pumps that will fit this module to support higher HP?

What size is the outlet on the module? Do you know the fuel capacity of the module?

[CarlC]

Matt,

Check out the post above that has the fuel module tech. The basic fuel delivery data is there. I have the data for flowrates below the rated pressure as well if anyone needs them.

I ran the module with a voltage booster for one hour continously with no problems. It's the same module that has been used for all lab and in-car testing.

There are other drop-in pumps available in the aftermarket that support well north of 1000hp. If you or anyone else is interested please send me a PM.

The outlet is a standard 3/8" GM quick connect.

[parsonsj]

There are other drop-in pumps available in the aftermarket that support well north of 1000hp. Like, say, 1300 hp? :)

jp

[wiedemab]

Like, say, 1300 hp? :)

jp

The summation of the horsepower of all of the vehicles I own - 5 of them doesn't equal that number - -- You just got me thinking!!!!

[Cris@JCG]

It was my pleasure helping where ever I could Carl!!

Good to see this moving forward Carl... I got a call yesterday from Hector to get 2 tanks going for me... One will be for Mary's car..

When this design was shown to me.. it was no brainer to incorporate this type of fuel system in my LS conversions.. I will be much easier to quote an LS conversion when you can buy a gas tank with everything already built into it..

Hector will be working the West Coast more this next coming year.. We got some plans for him to attend as many events that he can promoting this great new design..


Now that's an open ended question that I like! Just keep adding zeros Mike! I've been testing this system for five months to make sure it did what I wanted it to, and so far it has not let me down.

Vaporworx is me. I've been working on the designs above for the past 11 months. I'm the design side of this system. Rick's is the fabrication and sales side. For pricing and sales Hector at Rick's is the guy to talk to.

My goal is to turn OE fueling solutions into designs that are practical for the types of cars that we have a passion for. The OE's spend millions designing these systems so why not use them? In that light, my hope is to share the knowledge that I have learned along the way. I'll be an open book about the performance characteristics of this new design.

I've been lucky enough to have several other members help me to get these ideas off the ground, and they deserve a lot of credit.

First, that really nice 3D working model was done by Lance-W. Lance and I are very much alike in the way we think about things. I would start to bounce an idea at him and he'd finish my thought. He came up with ideas and different perspectives that helped to make the design cleaner and easier to build. I'm a CAD novice, but he makes is look easy. Thank you Lance.

Larry Callahan also helped in that he was able to assist with making prototypes of the module mounting ring. But, more importantly, Larry has this great website that allows us to share experiences, thoughts, needs, etc. I can't fathom how much knowledge is shared here and how much I have benefited from it.

Cris at JCG also gets a hand. He listened to my ideas with patience and had the trust to move forward with them. Much Gras Amigo.

Questions? Fire away.

[CarlC]

Perhaps, a definate maybe. How's that for commitment JP? I need to talk to the manufacturer for spec's. It may not be a simple plug and play due to the way the pressure regulation is done. It may require some additional components.

Thank you Cris! See you next Saturday.

[PhillipM]

I'm sorry if this was answered all ready as I read through and couldn't see it. Is this able to retro fit into an older Ricks EFI tank?

[CarlC]

Retro-fit is possible. Give Hector a call at Rick's for pricing.

[parsonsj]

Perhaps, a definate maybe. How's that for commitment JP? It'll do. It beats "No way, Jose". :)

[PhillipM]

Retro-fit is possible. Give Hector a call at Rick's for pricing.

Cool thanks.

[GRNOVA]

Retro-fit is possible. Give Hector a call at Rick's for pricing.

Thanks I will

[sjaroslo]

Carl:

What a beautiful tank; I'm so glad that I'm at the beginning of my journey and stand a good chance of being able to take advantage of the wonderful design you offer. I have two questions and I apologize if they have been covered in prior posts....

#1 - One of the problems that I read about with other tanks on the market that concerned me was that the fuel level sender seemed to be in a chamber that was almost always full of fuel, therefore, the gauge in the car was never really accurate in its reading. I know some of that was caused by the fuel return line, and your tank doesn't use that, but has that problem been addressed with your design?

#2 - What is the size of the output pipe from the tank? I assume in is AN--is it a -8, -6, -10? Are there options?

Thank you!

Steve

[CarlC]

Thanks Steve.

The outlet from the pump is a standard GM 3/8" quick connect. Using a Russell adapter a -6 can be used. There are a variety of different adapters from GM quick-connect to NPT, barb, SAE, etc. I use AN only on the Camaro.

Several options are available for the fuel sending unit. The better ones are the standard resistor/float types and are available in multiple ohm ranges. These tend to be more accurate and have less tendancy for rapid gauge fluctuations vs. the inductive models.

[Trackman]

You guys can sure keep a secret!
I just received my ricks tank a few days ago. Hector never mentioned this option. :(
Tank is amazing....but I want this option.
Tank is still in the box. One plus, I won't need to purge the tank for the conversion.

[CarlC]

Thanks Trackman, and welcome to Pro-Touring.com.

I'm surprised it flew under the radar for this long but my Circle of Trust kept it under wraps. I wanted to make sure that sufficient street and track testing was done so that added to the development timeframe.

Hector can quote you the modifications needed to convert your tank.

[PhillipM]

You guys can sure keep a secret!
I just received my ricks tank a few days ago. Hector never mentioned this option. :(
Tank is amazing....but I want this option.
Tank is still in the box. One plus, I won't need to purge the tank for the conversion.

Man I hear ya. I was talking to Hector about a tank only a few weeks ago. I was telling him of my concerns about fuel control and he didn't say one word. Eventhough it meant me going a different route on our design that meant not purchasing a Rick's Tank... He still said nothing. Wow!

[rossmacd]

My "canister" as Carl calls it, is a liquid/vapor separator. Vented fuel and vapor is trapped in the canister, and the liquid is returned to the tank, and the vapor precipitates out, turns into liquid and also returns to the tank. You add a breather filter to allow filtered air into the tank as the gasoline level is consumed by the engine.

It's downside is that it needs to be mounted above the tank, and it all works via gravity. Some folks object to putting fuel thingies into the trunk which is where this packages best.

Here's my installation instructions, which has a decent diagram about how it is supposed to be installed.

Where can I buy one of these gems and for how much? The fuel stink in my car is unbearable.

I;d love one of these tanks, but I'm not sure that I can swing the coin. Ricks is where it's at, that's for sure.

[Samckitt]

Do you have a design to fit the 78-88 GM G bodies?

[CarlC]

Scot,

I have not investigated that model.

The setup is modular so it can be adapted to many current tank designs. What I would need to know if the basics will work is a picture of the tank, the overall height at the front, and the length, if appropriate, of the flat section of the bottom-front.

[Samckitt]

Stock 80's G body tank is 18 gallons (- think). Doesn't look much different than you CADD model. I would think it would be a good demand for it. Cutlasn Monte, Regal, and Grand National of that era all use the same tank. Other than fuel injected ones are different internal.

[Denvervet]

so if one doesn't have a sending unit which would be recommended? Does it attach to/through the module?

[ErikLS2]

I ordered one of these tanks from Frank @ Prodigy Customs. He gave me a part number for the fuel pump module of 19208719 which is for a 2010 Camaro 6.2L. My Chevy parts guy said the fuel sender that goes with that module is part number 19208723

Question for Carl is will this GM fuel sender fit inside this tank without being obstructed by anything? I haven't bought the fuel pump and sender yet for this reason.

[Denvervet]

thanks for the info on the sending unit. Will follow the thread as to how to install it.

[strtlegal]

Carl, not sure if this was posted but Hector said that he is going to have your tank on display at the Good Guys show in Texas this weekend. Its supposed to be cut open so everyone can see whats going on in there...

Hector also asked if someone could come down there and take some good pics of it and post it on here...

[Denvervet]

I found a good deal on those GM senders
@ http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm

[CarlC]

Fuel module: GM P/N 19208719. 2010 LS3 Camaro.

Fuel level sending unit: GM P/N 19208722. 40-240 ohm.

gmpartsdirect.com is the least expensive place I found. You may also want to check out camaro5.com for guys that are selling their stock modules when they step up to the Fastlane or ADM pumps. You may also want to try those places as well since they do work on cars and may have old pumps available.

The module will also require a fuel pressure regulator from an LS1 4th gen. Delphi P/N FP100211B1 or equivalent. An adapter is also needed but should be included with the tank. The fuel pressure regulator that comes with the module will not work. I have instructions on how to install the adapter, but it's very easy. Remove the retaining wire holding in the regulator. Remove the stock regulator. Push the fuel pressure adapter into place. Install the new 4th-gen regulator and retaining wire. You will need to keep the ends of the retaining wire together using a pair of needle nose pliers. The wire is a tight fit with the new regulator and ground strap, but it does fit.

For the 5th gen 40-240 ohm sending unit to be used the flat section of the tank bottom must be extended aft. Total flat length needed is approximately 8", about an inch longer than the standard version. It will not work correctly if installed in a standard/short floor tank. The bonus to this option is that there is additional fuel capacity.

For 0-90 ohm needs Rick's has float-arm resistor type sending units.

Note in the rendering the hoses that connect the corner pickups to the module. It's not as elegant as I would like them to be, but due to the location of the 5th-gen sending unit it necessitated looping the hoses around the module body to keep them away from the float. There is a small bracket on the front of the tank where the hoses attach with a zip tie.

If I was able to make a youtube video of how to install the module and hoses would that be helpful?

I hope Hector hires a bunch of pretty models to show off the tank! Fuel tanks are not all that sexy.

[Mkelcy]

If I was able to make a youtube video of how to install the module and hoses would that be helpful?

I hope Hector hires a bunch of pretty models to show off the tank! Fuel tanks are not all that sexy.

Thanks for the part numbers. And yes, a youtube video of how to install the module and hoses done by a bunch of pretty models would be VERY helpful.

[ErikLS2]

Carl,

Thanks for clarifying but does that fuel level sender 19208722 mount to the fuel pump module or will it require it's own mounting through the fuel tank? Meaning will I have to drill a hole and provide a seal and all that? Want to get this right before my tank is built.

The video would be a big help to many.

[ErikLS2]

I'm getting my module and sender from my local GM parts guy that the dealership I work for does a lot of business with. He will sell the module and sender to anyone on here at wholesale.

Fuel pump module 19208719 $212.00
Fuel level sender 19208722 $21.00
Shipping anywhere lower 48 $25.00 for both

Total: $258.00

Not trying to step on any sponsors toes or anything here so please correct me if I'm wrong. I think gmpartsdirect charges a healthy handling fee on top of shipping but you can compare for yourself.

My guy is Rick at Brown & Brown Chevrolet and his direct line is
four eight zero - 827-3422 . You can tell him Erik at Lexus sent you.
BTW, I'm getting nothing out of this, just trying to help out members.

[CarlC]

Erik, I don't think you are stepping on anyones toes.

The sender slides into a slot onto the side of the module. It will plug into the module hat. I'll post some pics soon.

[Turbo67camaro]

The module will also require a fuel pressure regulator from an LS1 4th gen. Delphi P/N FP100211B1 or equivalent. An adapter is also needed but should be included with the tank. The fuel pressure regulator that comes with the module will not work.

Is the regulator part number FP1002111B1, FP10021, or FP10211? I'm having a hard time finding Delphi FP100211B1 out on the net, but have been able to find the other numbers I've listed.

[CarlC]

The FP10021 works fine, it's the one I have in the car now. I've used three different versions and all will fit but the B1 fits the retaining wire in the module the best. The B1 version I beleive may be becoming an obsolete P/N but it was also the least expensive version. The part from the dealer should work also.

[DarkoNova]

So the tank doesn't even come with a pump? Am I reading that correctly?

[nullshine]

The module will also require a fuel pressure regulator from an LS1 4th gen. Delphi P/N FP100211B1 or equivalent. An adapter is also needed but should be included with the tank. The fuel pressure regulator that comes with the module will not work. I have instructions on how to install the adapter, but it's very easy. Remove the retaining wire holding in the regulator. Remove the stock regulator. Push the fuel pressure adapter into place. Install the new 4th-gen regulator and retaining wire. You will need to keep the ends of the retaining wire together using a pair of needle nose pliers. The wire is a tight fit with the new regulator and ground strap, but it does fit.


Out of curiosity more than anything else, why won't the stock regulator work?

[CarlC]

Frank can supply a pump if you want him to, but his sale does not include a pump.

The stock 5th-gen regulator has a much higher bypass pressure. I've put 90psi on it and it still won't bypass. I've also seen the pump hot-wired directly to the battery in a 5th gen for testing and saw the pressure spiking above 90psi.

[nullshine]

I just reread the thread and saw you already mentioned the pressure on the stock one was too high. Sorry.

Here's another one, hopefully it hasn't been answered already too!

I was considering retro-fitting my stock g-body tank with a 4th Gen F-body fuel module, but the 5th Gen seems like a good option (and from what I can tell, cheaper?). Do you know if the 5th Gen bucket holds more volume than the 4th Gen one?

Also, are you going to be selling the corner fuel pickups separately so that the DIY guys can retrofit their stock tanks? If so, what kind of price are we looking at per pickup? Or are those corner pickups an OEM item as well?

[CarlC]

No worries James. There's a lot of little things done to make this ssytem work from a functional and service perspective.

The problem with the 4th-gen module is three-fold. First, it's too tall for most of our tanks unless a sump is used or a nasty hole cut in the trunk to allow a taller tank section to be added. The second is the price. Third, the pump is too weak for much of anything beyond a mild LS1.

The pickups are standard Walbro parts. http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/pickups.html

[nullshine]

Thanks a ton Carl, you've answered all my queries. Great info. :headbang:

[PARKERRS]

Carl,
Any info as to a pump that will move 255lph without the boost-a-pump yet?

[CarlC]

I have a pump to test but regulating the pressure is another story. Lots of homework......

[old66tiger]

I just got a quote from Hector for a tank for my 66 GTO for $1195. Says it comes with a pump, sender, straps, etc. I wonder if this is the new design or an older design? 255LPH or something else? I am wondering that since the FAST EFI system specifically wants 43 PSI will this be a problem here? They also say to use a regulated bypass system.

[CarlC]

I would check with Hector, but that sounds like a standard 255lph pump that requires an external regulator and filter.

Here's an interesting discussion on fuel pressure related to your situation:

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=28736

Basically, if the injector can handle 60psi then scaling the tune should work. The fuel module we're using is 58-60psi and not intended to be used with an external regulator unless you figure a way to run the return into the fuel module reservoir. At 45psi the pump is capable of 240lph, but it is critical for the return to exit into the module reservoir or else it will pump itself dry and wreck the pump.

[350SS]

For us diy guys, is the piece that the o-ring/pump module drops into and the cam locks onto available separately? Do you have a part number for the cam lock? Great work on this, I've had thoughts about a similar design for a while, glad to see someone put it together in such a professional package :)

[notchbackgta]

Carl,
Did you have one of thiese setups in your car this weekend at Optima?

[CarlC]

The ring is currently not offered as a seperate part. Think liability exposure. The cam ring is from an '10 5th-gen LS3.

Yes, it was on the car for Optima. The car ran the entire day on four gallons of fuel.

[notchbackgta]

Yes, it was on the car for Optima. The car ran the entire day on four gallons of fuel.

That is awesome! I was the guy that you were talking to at the end of the day before the closing ceremony, I was one of the volunteers.
I would love to pick one of these up but it is a little too far out of my price range.

[PARKERRS]

Carl, were you testing the new pump, or still hampered by time constraints?

[PhillipM]

Are these hitting the streets yet? We are looking for a tank to run our Magnacharged LS6 in our Olds. Hoping to get some feed back on using this tank in a boosted application.

[Skip Fix]

So on a dual pickup tank(this one or a factory) what keeps the uncovered pickup from sucking air into the system even if the covered one os sucking fuel?

[notchbackgta]

So on a dual pickup tank(this one or a factory) what keeps the uncovered pickup from sucking air into the system even if the covered one os sucking fuel?

Read the link someone else posted

http://www.autoperformanceengineering.com/html/pickups.html

[robertjra]

can ricks make the tank with a side fill so i can cut out the quarter and fill from the drivers side

[The WidowMaker]

can ricks make the tank with a side fill so i can cut out the quarter and fill from the drivers side

hector can make anything you want. he's a very friendly and honest guy to talk to, so call up and pick his brain.

[CarlC]

I'm running 9psi in a Magnacharged LS1 with a Lingenfelter GT2-3 camshaft making 490RWHP. No problems.

[CarlC]

Carl, were you testing the new pump, or still hampered by time constraints?

New, as in higher output pump? Not yet. I'm still lacking an important component to make it a plug-and-play option. Having an "in" at the OE level would make things sooooooooo much easier.

I'm ALWAYS testing something when going to the track. There is no better way to find out the weak links in the car.

[Skip Fix]

"At this point, the pump, sucking on the pickup will cause the mesh to suck shut, preventing the pump from sucking air. When fuel covers the pickup once again, the valve will open up and transfer fuel. " Now I see! Sounds good.

But don't the GM EFI factory tanks with two pickups just have a sock on both ends not a mesh valve to suck shut?

[CarlC]

Some factory tanks, like a 5th-gen Camaro, need a remote pickup. The 5th-gen tank humps over the driveshaft, and hence the fuel does not flow freely from one side to the other. A seperate pickup is needed to get the fuel from the remote section of the tank to the pump. Corvette and CTS cars are the same deal. The seperate pickup is attached to the venturi pump connector on the 5th-gen pump reservoir. This works fine when only a single external pickup is used. Since two corner pickups are used in the Vaporworx design a method to close the uncovered pickup is needed. Hence, the Walbro pickups are used since they have a self-closing design when fuel runs away from the pickup. Only fuel is drawn into the venturi pump with this system.

[HotRod68Camaro]

Have you considered setting it up with dual pumps? Running the second pump off of a HOBBs switch under boost?

[CarlC]

Yes, and soon to be built.

[HotRod68Camaro]

That's what i like to hear! How soon? I will be looking for one soon that can support 1000whp.

[CarlC]

I need to know more about the engine build. High boost pressures need to be considered in the fueling requirement.

[Samckitt]

Any thoughts of ones for us G body guys?

[CarlC]

If a tank with at least 1) 7" OAH and, 2) sufficient flat area on the bottom to fit the reservoir, can fit in the car, it can be built. But, it won't work with an LT1/42psi system.

If someone is making a tank now it is very likely that it can be adapted with a few modifications.

[robertjra]

can you build me one of these tanks with a side inlet for the fuel for a 69 camaro i would like to put the gas cap on the quarter panel by the trunk lid and what price range running an ls3

[Samckitt]

Do the central braces through the tank on either side of the pump provide any added benefit for the fuel itself or are they to give internal support of the tank itself? I'm debating going to an L92 for the Monte to replace the LT1. Currently I have a fuel pump from an 80's Grand National but don't have the baffled tank. A couple of times I have went around a corner & noticed some missing from no fuel pressure.
https://www.pro-touring.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=32913

[CarlC]

Talk to Hector at Rick's about custom filler necks and pricing. He can point you in the right direction.

The bulkheads are for structural purposes and for mounting the corner pickups. There is no need for any baffling.

[DarkoNova]

So have these officially replaced the old design? If I called to order, I don't have to specify I want this model, do I?

[CarlC]

The Vaporworx setup is an option. Discussing your project and budget with Hector at Rick's should help you make the choice that is right for your needs.

[ErikLS2]

Has anyone received one of these yet? I ordered when these first were available, haven't gotten mine yet. Not like my car is waiting for it to be driveable though so I'm in no real rush other than I'm looking forward to seeing it.

[Reckn8]

Erik, I just talked to Hector and it is a 4 week order process. When did you place your order? The 65 Cutlass is going to get a little make over this winter. BTY the number that you posted for Brown/Brown is Randy's direct line. Very good friend of mine.
Paul

[Derek69SS]

Definitely on my "must have" list... will probably be ready to order in about a month or two.

[Denvervet]

havent' seen mine either...kind of same boat your in.Want to see it but not quite ready to fire her up either. I'm waiting to get it before I order my fuel pump, regulator assembly, etc

[ErikLS2]

Erik, I just talked to Hector and it is a 4 week order process. When did you place your order? The 65 Cutlass is going to get a little make over this winter. BTY the number that you posted for Brown/Brown is Randy's direct line. Very good friend of mine.
Paul

I'm going on like 9 weeks now I think. I didn't order right from Hector though.

How good of a friend is Randy? The guy I know at that number is named Rick. LMAO

[CarlC]

Erik,

If you ordered your tank through a distributor of Rick's I suggest talking to them. They should be able to work things out for you.

[greg5436]

i ordered one directly thru hector 9 or 10 weeks ago and i haven't seen mine yet. greg

[CarlC]

In leiu of getting the video done, here’s the step-by-step procedure to installing the corner pickups, hoses, and fuel module.

NOTE: The fuel pump module must have a 4th-gen Camaro LS1 pressure regulator installed using the Vaporworx adapter prior to installation into the fuel tank. Instructions for this proceedure are available from Vaporworx, your tank manufacturer, or distributor.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
First, the corner pickups and brackets need to be removed from the tank. The bracket orientation should be marked on each. Note in the photo that the orientation is reversed, just like standing in front of the tank and looking aft. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<o:p>https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif</o:p>


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<o:p></o:p>
Each pickup needs a long corrugated fuel hose attached. They hose is then clamped with an Odiker clamp (0.375" - 0.437"). The clamp must slide on to the pickup first before the hose is installed.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>


<v:shape id=_x0000_i1026 style="WIDTH: 237pt; HEIGHT: 177.75pt" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:title="DSC02083" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\N658066\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip _image003.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p>

<o:p>https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif</o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Next, each of the hoses is attached to the “Y” using the same size Odiker clamps as used above. In the photo shown, the open leg of the “Y” will point toward the LH side of the car. This orientation is used when the GM 33-240 ohm 5<SUP>th</SUP> gen sending unit is used. For applications where the fuel level sending unit is built into the tank, it is known as the standard fuel level sensor. It is located just to the left of the fuel pump module. For the standard fuel level sensor the open leg of the “Y” should point to the RH side of the car.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>
For 5<SUP>th</SUP>-gen clip-on sending units:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
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<o:p></o:p>
For the standard fuel level sending unit located on the LH side of the pump module:
<o:p>https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif</o:p>
<v:shape id=_x0000_i1028 style="WIDTH: 201pt; HEIGHT: 150.75pt" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:title="DSC02085" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\N658066\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip _image007.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p>
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On a flat surface clock the pickups and the “Y” so that all components lay flat. Also install another long corrugated fuel hose on the open end of the “Y.” This hose will eventually attach to the fuel pump module. When completed it should look like the assembly shown below. This assembly is for the standard fuel level sensor.
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When using the 5<SUP>th</SUP>-gen fuel level sender the hose that attaches to the fuel pump module must be extended. Use a 1” long 5/16” or 3/8” stainless tube to spice a short corrugated hose on to the end of the long one. Use two Odiker clamps to secure the splice. Note how the hose loops around counter-clockwise. This is how the hose assembly will mount in the tank. If you use 3/8” tubing you will need the same clamp size and hose expansion technique that is used in the venturi pump connection later in this installation procedure.<o:p></o:p>
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For those with the standard fuel level sending unit, the hose assembly will look like that below:<o:p></o:p>
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Now it’s time to secure the pickups to the brackets. Insert the pickup into their respective bracket. Using a heat gun, carefully heat just the exposed top of the pickup. Use a blunt object, such as the end of a Sharpie, to deform the soft plastic so that the pickup will not detach from the bracket. Do not use a torch or other method that will excessively heat the plastic. It must be done slowly and carefully. Do this to both sides.<o:p></o:p>
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Apply a light coating of oil to the venturi pickup connection on the bottom of the reservoir module. This is the 3/8” grey quick connector.<o:p></o:p>
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The hose end that attaches to the fuel module needs to be expanded. Using a large ½” drive socket, or similar tool, insert the open end of the hose so that only approximately ½” of hose is exposed. Using the socket or similar tool will shield the corrugated section of hose from heat. <o:p></o:p>
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<v:shape id=_x0000_i1036 style="WIDTH: 247.5pt; HEIGHT: 186pt" type="#_x0000_t75"><v:imagedata o:title="DSC02086" src="file:///C:\DOCUME~1\N658066\LOCALS~1\Temp\msohtml1\01\clip _image017.jpg"></v:imagedata></v:shape><o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>Slowly and evenly heat the end of the hose until it softens. Immediately remove the hose from the tool and slide it on to the venturi pickup connection on the pump. It is imperative that the corrugated section of the hose not be heated. Allow the hose to cool to room temperature, then remove it from the module connection.<o:p></o:p>
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Install the hose assembly into the tank. Align the brackets so that the pickup seats squarely on the floor of the tank. Attach the brackets to tank bulkheads using a nut and lock washer and tighten securely. The pickup should be lightly preloaded against the bottom of the tank. <o:p></o:p>
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Note how the fuel pump module will install into the tank. The venturi pump connection will be at approximately 10:30. Hence, the hose assembly will need to loop around the module to make the final connection. In order to have the correct clocking of the hose attachment, lay the hose in the tank in the approximate location that it will be after the module is installed. Rotate the hose end slightly so that the hose assembly suspends itself approximately 1” off the floor of the tank. Place a line on the hose end at the 12:00 position as shown in the photos.<o:p></o:p>
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For the 5<SUP>th</SUP>-gen fuel level sending unit:
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For the standard fuel level sending unit:<o:p></o:p>
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Install the green fuel module o-ring seal into the fuel module mounting ring.<o:p></o:p>
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Place the fuel pump module on a flat surface. Place a line along the top of the venturi connection at the 12:00 position similar to that done on the hose above.
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Leaving the hose in the looped configuration like that in the pictures above, attach the fuel hose to the venturi pickup and clock the line on the hose to the line on the connector. Secure the hose with an Odiker clamp (0.453" - 0.531.) You may need this same clamp size for splicing two hoses together when using 3/8” tubing. Note that when the module is installed the hose should return to the looped shape that was created above.
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For 5<SUP>th</SUP>-gen fuel level sending units: Note the fuel pump module will seat in the middle of the loop created by the hoses.
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Install the module into the tank taking care to loop the hoses correctly and that the hoses along the front wall of the tank route between the module body and the tank wall. A coat hanger wire works well to hold the hose against the tank wall during installation. The fuel connection on the top of the module should be pointing forward.<o:p></o:p>
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Push the module top down until it seats evenly on the mounting o-ring. You may find it necessary to move the module reservoir slightly forward or aft in order to get the top to seat evenly.<o:p></o:p>
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Install the cam ring until the cams seat on the module lugs. Using a large pair of Channel Locks rotate the cam ring until it seats against the mounting lug. <o:p></o:p>
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After the cam ring fully seats tighten the locking screw on the top of one of the seven mounting lugs. Module installation is now complete.<o:p></o:p>
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Fuel line attachment can be done using a variety of methods. It is highly recommended that a method be used to support the attachment lines so that as little force as possible is applied to the module connection. The connection is made of plastic and is susceptible to breakage. Shown is a sample of a -6 connecting line using a Russell 3/8” GM quick connect to -6an adapter. The end of the connector is attached to the fuel tank via a welded-in #10-32 bung. It is important that a flexible line be used between the tank and the body of the car. This allows for movement during a rear end collision. A #10-32 bung, clamp, and screw assembly is available from Vaporworx.<o:p></o:p>
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The fuel pump wiring can be done as shown below. Note that the power connections are listed on the pump. The wiring colors are the same as what GM provides: Grey = pump (+), Pink = pump (-). For the 5<SUP>th</SUP>-gen sending unit all wiring is done through this connector with the brown wire going to ground and the blue to the fuel gauge. It is highly recommended that a four-cavity plug be installed at the back of the tank just below the trunk floor. This will allow for easy removal of the tank wiring. If the extra plug is not used it is very difficult to install the plug on to the module and balance the tank without damaging the module or plug. Vaporworx carries some wiring harnesses in stock compete with secondary plug and extension wiring.<o:p></o:p>
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And here's a list of the part needed to complete the tank. I have some wiring harnesses available and can modify 5th-gen harnesses. The 5th-gen harness has two connectors that will attach to the module so if you can team up with someone the cost is much less. The wiring will need to be modified for both connectors.
Qty Desc. Vendor Part Number $ each Total

1 10-32 plug assembly Vaporworx 1032PLUGASSY
2 Walbro corner pickups Auto Performance Engineering MP-13 26 $52.00 NOTE: These may be in your completed tank.
3 15" flex hoses Auto Performance Engineering Flexhose15 5 $15.00
1 8" flex hose Auto Performance Engineering Flexhose8 3
1 Nylon "T" Auto Performance Engineering 128-3117 4 $4.00
5 Odiker clamps 0.375" - 0.437" McMaster Carr 5435k12 0.2 $1.00
3 Odiker clamp 0.453" - 0.531 McMaster Carr 5435k13 0.2 $0.20
1 Fuel level sensor GMPartsdirect.com 19208722 19.67 $19.67
1 Fuel pump module GMPartsdirect.com 19208719 192.22 $192.22
1 Cam Ring GMPartsdirect.com 10325852 7.64 $7.64
1 Wiring harness GMPartsdirect.com 92202097 87.56 $87.56
1 4th gen fuel pressure regulator rockauto.com FP10021 (Delphi) 52.79 $52.79
1 Quick connect -6 fitting Russell 640850 16 $16.00

[Samckitt]

So from reading this I take it the stock GM parts will not work for the pump/sending unit? Are the only spots that fuel is picked up at the pickups at the end of the tubes, or is some sucked in at the pump/sending unit?

[CarlC]

There is a venturi pump on the bottom of the module reservoir as well.

The stock pickup for the passenger side tank will not work in a two-pickup system.

[Samckitt]

So this fitting that the hose slips onto is not part of the factory pump/sending unit?
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[BonzoHansen]

So I guess I better just hold onto this 4th gen tank I have.

[CarlC]

The grey male connector is part of the module. On 5th-gen cars the tank humps over the driveshaft. In order to draw fuel from the passenger side a venturi pump in the drivers-side mounted module is connected to a pickup in the passenger side of the tank. The grey male connector is where the hose that connects the two attaches.

[DarkoNova]

I am so confused...

[Samckitt]

I'm in the same boat with Matt.

So the 5th gen camaro pump/sending unit is the piece that fits/works in this tank? Stock it is setup similar to this aftermarket tank, it has the dual pickups because the bottom of the tank has the hump to clear the driveshaft?

[notchbackgta]

Stock it is setup similar to this aftermarket tank, it has the dual pickups because the bottom of the tank has the hump to clear the driveshaft?

Not sure about the reason Carl is talking about different sending units but the point of the pickups is so at low fuel level the pump always has a pickup in fuel during slosh. If you really read the thread Carl ran The Optima Challenge with a LOW amount of fuel and had no starvation issues

[Denvervet]

Ok, so now I am confused also. Originally we were led to believe if we purchased this tank we just needed a fuel pump and pressure regulator. Now it looks like we have to purchase and install all the internals too? Then what exactly are we paying $1200 for ....just the steel tank with nothing installed? And who is Vaporworx? I thought it was just a name used for this tank made by Ricks. How do I call them? Am I clueless or what ?

[CarlC]

Let's see if I can clear things up.

The fuel pump module consists of a reservoir, twin venturi pumps, single pressure pump, and module hat. There are more components but these should suffice for now. The reservoir is the large can that holds a large volume of fuel. The venturi pumps are used to keep the reservoir full of fuel. The pressure pump supplies pressurized fuel to the engine. The module hat is the externally exposed section of the module that acts as a sealing plate, electrical bulkhead, and fuel bulkhead.

Let's remember back to when we were little kids (I'm still one) and played in the swimming pool with the garden hose. Put a nozzle on the garden hose and set it to make a tight stream. If the end of the nozzle is pointed straight up the stream goes pretty high, maybe 20' or more. The stream is a small volume of high-speed liquid. Now move the nozzle under the level of the water in the pool. Move the nozzle toward the side of the pool such that the water lifted out of the pool by the nozzle lands on the deck. By adjusting the depth and angle of the nozzle you can maximize the amount of water lifted on to the pool deck. The amount of energy leaving the very tip of the hose nozzle is the same in both examples, but now the low-volume/high-speed stream has been transferred into a high-volume/low-speed blob on the pool deck. There has been no change in the amount of work done (minus friction factors, etc. work with me here), just more mass moved in the second example. It is a bit more complex using a venturi, but the concept is still the same. Trade a high-speed/low-volume stream for a low-speed/high-volume one using some fancy engineering terms that I'll try to avoid.

For this module one of the venturi pumps draws fuel from a remote pickup. In stock applications like the 5th-gen, the tank humps over the driveshaft, like an upside down "U". In others, such as the C6, there are two seperate tanks connected at the top with a tube. The module is mounted on the drivers side of the car. The fuel in the lowest part of the upside down "U" or in the remote tank must be transferred over to the pump module. That is done with a venturi pump. The grey connector on the bottom of the pump module reservoir is the connector for the hose that goes to a remote pickup on the bottom of the upside down "U" or the bottom of the seperate tank.

The remote pickup used in stock applications will work just fine for us if only a single pickup is used. The stock remote pickup does not have a check valve to prevent air from being drawn in once uncovered of fuel. In stock applications this is fine. In applications where two or more pickups are used a method to close the uncovered pickup is needed or else air from the uncovred pickup will be pumped instead of fuel from others. The pumping medium with the lowest density will always be pumped first in a system where more than one medium is available. Think of it like this. Take a stock mechanical pump fuel system and cut a 3/16" hole in the hose anywhere between the pump and tank. What's going to be drawn by the pump, air or fuel? It's the same concept for the corner pickups. The Walbro corner pickups have a feature that closes so that air is not drawn in when fuel runs away from the pickup.

In the Vaporworx design the pickups are tied together with a "Y" and attached to the grey venturi pump connector on the base of the reservoir. Check out the 3D rendering in the first post.

The venturi pumps, acting together or alone, typically have enough capacity to draw more fuel into the module than what the pressure pump needs to feed the engine. In other words, the reservoir is almost always overflowing with fuel. Since the module is located on the drivers side in stock applications, and it is always overflowing with fuel, the fuel from the passenger tank will be used first.

There is a difference between modules and sending units. Usually the "module" refers to the reservoir/hat/pump etc assembly. The "sending unit" is the fuel level sending unit. There are many fuel level sending units to choose from for our applications, but it can be boiled down to two types. The first is the standard fuel level sending unit, which is the same type that has been offered on Rick's tanks, and other aftermarket tanks, for years. It is a seperate, circular, fuel level sending unit and has a seperate hole/penetration in the top of the tank. Multiple ohm ranges are available for this setup. The second type is the one that is used on the stock 5th-gen module. It is approximately 40-240 ohm (close enough for what we do) so an aftermarket gauge can be used, or the Autometer self-calibrating type (I like these.) It clips on to the side of the pump module and plugs into the bottom of the module hat. Due to the location of the float for the 5th-gen fuel level sending unit the corner pickup feed hoses must be routed differently than the standard fuel level sending unit.

Here's a pic of the 5th-gen module with the 5th-gen clip-on fuel level sending unit.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Vaporworx is just a little company I started in order to try and bring modern fuel systems into our hobby. I am a supplier to companies like Rick's. I am not an employee for any of them. David, check the second paragraph of post #3 https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?72309-Track-Ready-Street-Friendly-Fuel-Tanks-From-Rick-s-and-Vaporworx. NOTE: I believe that the tanks coming from Rick's have the Walbro corner pickups in the tank already.

[Samckitt]

Ah Grasshopper, I understand now.

thanks

[Denvervet]

Carl,
Thanks for clearing some of this up. If some of us that paid for these tank setups in October had received these tanks we /I would know what we have.....or will have.

[CarlC]

Here's some tricks that you may want to consider during the installation the fuel system.

I hate removing fuel tanks that have fuel in them. I'd much rather use the pump to drain the tank and make my life just a little easier. However, it is a bit more difficult to do this with the 5th-gen pump than just removing a line and pumping the fuel into a jug. Reason? Pumping rules state that as the pressure decreases, the flowrate increases. That makes sense. Put your thumb over the end of the hose, the pressure inside of the hose goes up, flowrate out the end of the hose goes down. However, the venturi pumps, the primary means of getting fuel into the module reservoir, are designed to keep the reservoir full when the fuel pressure is at 58psi. At 40psi the venturi pumps are just barely able to keep up. With no pressure the venturi pumps cannot keep up, the pressure pump will pump the reservoir dry, and burn up the pump. So, what's the trick?

I suggest putting a "T" at the fuel line junction between the line on the tank and that on the frame rail. Put a cap on one leg of the "T" and use this as your draining tap. When it comes time to use the pump to drain the tank, remove the "T" cap and install a fitting that will allow the use of a 1/8" nylon oil-pressure line. This small line will provide enough restriction so that sufficient pressure is available to drive the venturi pumps and keep the reservoir full. You must listen to the pump during the last stages of the process. The pump speed and tone will start to change. Once you hear this immediately disconnect the power to the pump. I like to do this by disconnecting the fuel pump relay plug and providing hot-wire power directly to the pump. It's much easier to control, and much faster, than running to the key switch. If you are using a GM ECM to control the fuel pump relay (a VERY GOOD idea) you will only get a few seconds of pumping before the ECM shuts off the power to the relay.

When you are close to firing up the car it is also recommended to flush the fuel line all the way to the connection on the fuel rail. Because of the issue noted above, it is recommended that the following procedure be followed:

NOTE: Fuel is nasty stuff. It catches on fire. It will burn you, your car, your house, and everyone in it to the ground if it is not treated properly. Proper safety precautions must be used during this process in order to reduce the chances of fires.

1) Fill the fuel tank with to at least 1/2-full. 3/4" would be better, full would be best.
2) Disconnect the fuel line connection at the fuel rail. Put the end of the fuel line into a fuel jug.
3) Turn the pump on for 3-4 seconds. Note if fuel came out the end of the fuel line.
4) Wait 60 seconds. Repeat Step 3 until at least one quart of fuel has been pushed through the line.
5) If the the pumped fuel is badly contaminated, repeat Steps 3-4 until the fuel runs clean.
6) Re-attach the fuel line to the fuel rail.
7) Turn the pump on. Inspect the system for leaks and repair as needed.

If the fuel tank is full then the 3-4 second rule can be disregarded. Just hook the pump up to power and flush the line. Since the level of fuel in the tank is above that of the module, there is no need for the venturi pumps to keep up with the pressure pump output.

Another trick is to calibrate your fuel gauge during initial fillup. Put one gallon of fuel into the empty tank and note the reading on the gauge. Write it down. Do the same for the second gallon, and so on until full. Note at what point the gauge reads full but the tank will still accept fuel (this normal.) Make a small laminated card that has the levels on it you noted during fillup. This will help you gauge, to a very close amount, how much fuel is in the tank. This is helpful not just when travelling, but also for open track events, and to know how big a fuel jug you will need if you drain the tank.

Example. This past OUSCI was four practice laps + four hot laps on a 2.2 mile track. Three autocross laps, three speed-stop challenges, plus six miles to/from the track and various putting around in the pits. Call it 20 miles of all-out and six miles of cruising (to get back to a retail pump.) The car gets, on a track much harder on mileage than SM, 6.5mpg. That's three gallons worst case. That leaves a gallon for the pits and to get to a gas station. According to the gauge the car had four gallons in the tank when the day started in the pits. The tank had just under a gallon in it when it was filled up at the end of the day. Without knowing exactly how much fuel was in the tank I would not be comfortable about cutting things so close. Even the OUSCI was a testing day for the car.

I had Cris from JCG in the car last week. He kept bugging me that my gas gauge was 3/16th's of a tank. Heck, the tank still had almost three gallons in it. He was nervous because of what the gauge read, but because I knew how much gas was really in the tank, and knowing that the module will run the tank practically dry, there was no worry on my part. It makes driving a lot more re-assuring knowing how much fuel there is and that all of it can be used.

Picture of the "T"
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The fuel card that is carried in the center console of the car.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Fuel draining hose assembly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[The WidowMaker]

carl, have you experimented with putting a venturi in the retun line of a walboro or bosch pump and seeing what can be produced from the remote pickups? id love to see a solution for those of us with an older style ricks tank.

[Bow Tie 67]

carl, have you experimented with putting a venturi in the retun line of a walboro or bosch pump and seeing what can be produced from the remote pickups? id love to see a solution for those of us with an older style ricks tank.

I have thought about this also, but without the cooling a basket provides I'm not sure if its a good idea to run an exposed pump hard without some cooling. ( ie: track use and low fuel ) I have done this, but now I wonder if I need to rethink my fuel system.

[CarlC]

carl, have you experimented with putting a venturi in the retun line of a walboro or bosch pump and seeing what can be produced from the remote pickups? id love to see a solution for those of us with an older style ricks tank.

It is this problem that has led me to developing something that would work.

There are multiple problems with that scenario. First, the venturi pumps need high-pressure fuel to work. This HP fuel cannot be drawn from the return line. The return needs to be unobstructed or else the regulator will not function correctly. Second, tapping into the return would defeat a single-line output. Third, modifying the tank internals and getting a corner pickup assembly into the stock Rick's fuel plate hole is impossible. Fourth, a self-sealing reservoir is needed for the reasons Matt notes. There are some other small reasons, but the main thing to consider when using the Walbro pickups is that they are designed to be used with a venturi/jet type pump.

It also means building venturi pumps, sealed check valves, finding small venturi pump HP fuel transfer lines, machining a bunch of small parts, etc. Then it has to be tested. How much volume does the venturi pump require to be effective? How much fuel is drawn in by the venturi pump? What are those characteristics at various pressures? How long will the reservoir remain effective with just one venturi pump submerged? And so on, and so on.....

There are perhaps two more higher-horsepower versions coming, but it takes a lot of time to get all of it sorted out. The first mid-level version is 90% done. The big mama is all custom and really is a PITA and has not gone much farther than some sketches and preliminary laying out of parts.

[Cris@JCG]

Yeah! When you left I was just waiting for the phone call that you needed a gas can!! LOL

Car run great!



Here's some tricks that you may want to consider during the installation the fuel system.

I hate removing fuel tanks that have fuel in them. I'd much rather use the pump to drain the tank and make my life just a little easier. However, it is a bit more difficult to do this with the 5th-gen pump than just removing a line and pumping the fuel into a jug. Reason? Pumping rules state that as the pressure decreases, the flowrate increases. That makes sense. Put your thumb over the end of the hose, the pressure inside of the hose goes up, flowrate out the end of the hose goes down. However, the venturi pumps, the primary means of getting fuel into the module reservoir, are designed to keep the reservoir full when the fuel pressure is at 58psi. At 40psi the venturi pumps are just barely able to keep up. With no pressure the venturi pumps cannot keep up, the pressure pump will pump the reservoir dry, and burn up the pump. So, what's the trick?

I suggest putting a "T" at the fuel line junction between the line on the tank and that on the frame rail. Put a cap on one leg of the "T" and use this as your draining tap. When it comes time to use the pump to drain the tank, remove the "T" cap and install a fitting that will allow the use of a 1/8" nylon oil-pressure line. This small line will provide enough restriction so that sufficient pressure is available to drive the venturi pumps and keep the reservoir full. You must listen to the pump during the last stages of the process. The pump speed and tone will start to change. Once you hear this immediately disconnect the power to the pump. I like to do this by disconnecting the fuel pump relay plug and providing hot-wire power directly to the pump. It's much easier to control, and much faster, than running to the key switch. If you are using a GM ECM to control the fuel pump relay (a VERY GOOD idea) you will only get a few seconds of pumping before the ECM shuts off the power to the relay.

When you are close to firing up the car it is also recommended to flush the fuel line all the way to the connection on the fuel rail. Because of the issue noted above, it is recommended that the following procedure be followed:

NOTE: Fuel is nasty stuff. It catches on fire. It will burn you, your car, your house, and everyone in it to the ground if it is not treated properly. Proper safety precautions must be used during this process in order to reduce the chances of fires.

1) Fill the fuel tank with to at least 1/2-full. 3/4" would be better, full would be best.
2) Disconnect the fuel line connection at the fuel rail. Put the end of the fuel line into a fuel jug.
3) Turn the pump on for 3-4 seconds. Note if fuel came out the end of the fuel line.
4) Wait 60 seconds. Repeat Step 3 until at least one quart of fuel has been pushed through the line.
5) If the the pumped fuel is badly contaminated, repeat Steps 3-4 until the fuel runs clean.
6) Re-attach the fuel line to the fuel rail.
7) Turn the pump on. Inspect the system for leaks and repair as needed.

If the fuel tank is full then the 3-4 second rule can be disregarded. Just hook the pump up to power and flush the line. Since the level of fuel in the tank is above that of the module, there is no need for the venturi pumps to keep up with the pressure pump output.

Another trick is to calibrate your fuel gauge during initial fillup. Put one gallon of fuel into the empty tank and note the reading on the gauge. Write it down. Do the same for the second gallon, and so on until full. Note at what point the gauge reads full but the tank will still accept fuel (this normal.) Make a small laminated card that has the levels on it you noted during fillup. This will help you gauge, to a very close amount, how much fuel is in the tank. This is helpful not just when travelling, but also for open track events, and to know how big a fuel jug you will need if you drain the tank.

Example. This past OUSCI was four practice laps + four hot laps on a 2.2 mile track. Three autocross laps, three speed-stop challenges, plus six miles to/from the track and various putting around in the pits. Call it 20 miles of all-out and six miles of cruising (to get back to a retail pump.) The car gets, on a track much harder on mileage than SM, 6.5mpg. That's three gallons worst case. That leaves a gallon for the pits and to get to a gas station. According to the gauge the car had four gallons in the tank when the day started in the pits. The tank had just under a gallon in it when it was filled up at the end of the day. Without knowing exactly how much fuel was in the tank I would not be comfortable about cutting things so close. Even the OUSCI was a testing day for the car.

I had Cris from JCG in the car last week. He kept bugging me that my gas gauge was 3/16th's of a tank. Heck, the tank still had almost three gallons in it. He was nervous because of what the gauge read, but because I knew how much gas was really in the tank, and knowing that the module will run the tank practically dry, there was no worry on my part. It makes driving a lot more re-assuring knowing how much fuel there is and that all of it can be used.

Picture of the "T"
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

The fuel card that is carried in the center console of the car.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Fuel draining hose assembly.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[The WidowMaker]

It also means building venturi pumps, sealed check valves, finding small venturi pump HP fuel transfer lines, machining a bunch of small parts, etc. Then it has to be tested. How much volume does the venturi pump require to be effective? How much fuel is drawn in by the venturi pump? What are those characteristics at various pressures? How long will the reservoir remain effective with just one venturi pump submerged? And so on, and so on.....



thats why i was hoping you had already done the testing. :) i had planned on building a custom tank with an internal surge tank and two pumps and then gave up with everything else that needs to be done to the car. hector keeps telling me mine will work just fine, and for the amount of actual racing i will do i think hes right. i may however change one thing before i fill it with fuel for the first time.

[DarkoNova]

So, do we need to buy anything from you if we buy the tank from Rick's? All the assembly pictures make it seem like we're basically getting an empty tank from Rick's, and then buying everything else from you and putting it together ourselves.

[CarlC]

The way the tanks have been ordered from Rick's have the corner pickups installed. It does not contain the pump or other parts listed in post #128. I listed those parts so that the owners of the new tanks could have access to the P/N's and the cost of the least expensive places I've found. This helps to keep the overall cost down. I have a few of the more difficult parts, such as the wiring harness, for sale. I can also modify a harness or connector to work if someone chooses that.

For those with tanks on order you should confirm with Rick's or your distributor just what the tank comes with. Don't take it from me for what may or may not come with your tank.

Frank at Prodigy Customs can supply a completed tank as well. Contacting him directly would be the best bet.

[Denvervet]

Good to hear. Thanks again Carl for the info and especially for the R&D involved. Looking forward to seeing it in person.

[CarlC]

Sorry guys, I had an error in the wiring to the module for the fuel gauge. It has been updated in the thread.

[dj3]

I cant seems to find a website or contact info, how do I order a Vaporworx adapter? I have already received my tank and didn't find any information. Also, do I need a 10-32 plug assembly Vaporworx 1032PLUGASSY and Wiring harness GMPartsdirect.com 92202097 or one or the other?

Thanks,
Derek

[CarlC]

Derek,

Sorry, I did not see your post until just now.

I do not have a website. However, everything that would be on one is in this posting. One day I will build one but I need to find some very inexpensive website building software and then spend the time to build it. Development money goes toward parts and R&D for now.

Your tank should have come with a fuel pressure regulator adapter. Contact Rick's to find out where it is.

The #10-32 plug assembly is not something Rick's is currently providing. It acts as a fuel line support. Placing it just outboard of the tank strap (approx. 1.5-2" usually works but check yours for fitment) and approx. 2-1/2" down from the top of the tank works well.

There are always more than one way to skin a cat, but I believe the best way to wire the pump is to adapt the stock wiring plug. Putting a 4-cavity Weatherpack/MetriPack plug near where the wiring exits the trunk floor works well. This way the section of wire from the module to the rear of the tank stays in place during tank R&R.

[HOSTILETAKEOVER]

What is the typical delivery time for one of these tanks?

Thanks,

[CarlC]

Give Hector a call at Rick's Hot Rod Shop. They are the manufacturer, and there is a link on the RH side of this page in the advertisment flags.

[Turbo67camaro]

Fuel level sending unit: GM P/N 19208722. 40-240 ohm.

For the 5th gen 40-240 ohm sending unit to be used the flat section of the tank bottom must be extended aft. Total flat length needed is approximately 8", about an inch longer than the standard version. It will not work correctly if installed in a standard/short floor tank. The bonus to this option is that there is additional fuel capacity.


I've got a Ricks/Vaporworks tank for a '67 Camaro (standard design with notched corners). Will the above sending unit fit and work correctly, or would I have had to order a modified tank design with the tank bottom extended?

I wasn't sure if your comment was specifically tailored to 1st gen Camaro tanks or not.

[Bow Tie 67]

I did the mod to my ricks tank and was able to use the stock GM 2010 sender. I just clocked the 2010 module so the float would clear the baffle in my tank, this put the outlet nipple at a slight angle.

OH, just incase anyone is wondering, this upgrade is well worth the cost. Put it this way it will save you money in the long run and prevent headaches as well.

Thank you Carl, I love the new setup. " thumbs up *

Here is a pic of how I clocked mine to clear the stock sender. ( using the stock sender gives me OEM type fuel level indications, no bouncing needle )

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2444861190065608932KYnSAC)

[chrismoe]

All inclusive design is way cool.

Chris

[CarlC]

Sorry for the delay guys. There's no cell/email/computer access where I was at for the past three days :-)

There's several ways to do the fuel level sensor. If the Rick's tank has a fuel level sensor built into it, you can use that. The new tank design is also deeper so that the 5th-gen level sensor can be used without having to re-clock the module. If you wish to use the 5th-gen sensor just dummy-out the installed Rick's/VDO gauge. We did this on James Shipka's OLC.

Matt re-clocked the module to make the 5th-gen sensor clear the tank bottom, but the top also needs to be checked to make sure the float does not hit the bottom of the recessed tray. If the fuel module mounting ring is already welded in place you can trim the plastic alignment tab on the fuel module hat to get the alignment the way you want it. Once the cam ring is installed the module is not going anywhere.

Thanks for the compliments Matt!

[Two G's]

Hi Carl my name is greg with Ridetech and i am installing a new tank from Ricks with your new system it all looks great but i have some questions about venting. First i plan on venting at the filler neck just past the cap how big of line should be used and what check valve do you like?

[CarlC]

Greg,

I'll give you a call tomorrow to discuss.

[EFI69Cam]

For anyone who is on the fence about this setup. I sold my unused Stealth tank and bought the Vaporworx tank from Rick's and the Pressureworx controller kit from Carl. I have never before been more impressed with an aftermarket product. Everything else I've bought for my project has needed tweaking in some form or another. This is not the case with Carl's product, everything down to the ring terminals are included to make a nice clean install. Carl even threw in the parts I need to mount the components where I want even though it deviates from his standard install. The Ricks tanks are a thing of beauty, its too bad most of the excellent welds are hidden when the tank is installed.

I'm guessing I'm probably still a couple months away from firing the engine but knowing I have the best fuel system available gives me confidence that my project will turn out the way I want it to.

Thanks to Carl and Hector/Ricks Tanks for a great product!

[CarlC]

Thank you for the compliments Fritz. I try my best to think of what could be needed in the kit, but there's always that one guy who has to be different ;-)

I agree about Rick's quality. The welding is a work of art. It's a shame it's all hidden under the car.

Please let me know how the 1bar setup works for you. I like feedback, both good and bad/constructive, in order to make a better product.

[gmachala404]

I ordered this tank from Prodigy last week for my 71 Chevelle SS clone/LS3 swap project. I truly think this is the solution to fueling an older musclecar with a modern EFI. The other systems suck air when you turn a corner on 1/4 tank of gas not good. Its expensive but I really feel this will work like a new factory Camaro or CTSV which to me is a good thing.

[daredvl22]

I just got mine delivered yesterday. Ordered mine through Frank as well. It took awhile, but it was worth the wait. The tank is beautiful, and heavier than I expected! Now I just need to mock it up and see how she fits.

[73z-6sp]

fcvgbhn

[CarlC]

Thanks guys. Aaron, are you in for Buttonwillow in mid-Sept?

[CarlC]

For those looking to get a 3/8" GM quick-connect to AN6 male fitting for the module outlet Russell has finally come out with an updated version that is much better.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-644120/

[Ishmael]

I thought those might be what I was looking for. Thank you gentlemen. Now for the outlet side of the filter (which I assume is a male quick connect) and the 5/16 stock style return line to the tank. I'm getting close on this thing. To think I had a working sbc between the rails this spring and could have driven it all summer. Ouch.

[CarlC]

If you're talking the return side of the C5 fuel filter/regulator Russell makes the new type as well in both blue and black.

[1qwik99]

I just got a quote from Hector for a tank for my 66 GTO for $1195. Says it comes with a pump, sender, straps, etc. I wonder if this is the new design or an older design? 255LPH or something else? I am wondering that since the FAST EFI system specifically wants 43 PSI will this be a problem here? They also say to use a regulated bypass system.

Hello,

I just read your post from almost a year ago. (I just joined the forum). Did you ever get the Rick's Tank? How do you like it? I too have a '66 GTO and switched over to EFI a year ago. I'm using the Powerjection 3 unit. I should be receiving my Rick's tank this week. I paid the same amount that you were quoted from Hector. You can PM me if you like. Rick:)

[TnBlkC230WZ]

Jeff can probably get us GM part numbers used in the eRod setup. You can hide it under the car or in the trunk or where ever. On the 4trh gen IIRC it is on top of the tank. Hey, the early 2nd gens had some evap contraption behind the rear seat, might fit there.



The evap canister shipped with the LS3 eRod engine is part #17113332 which translates to a 2010 Corvette. You can order the Corvette mounting bracket from the dealer too, part #10412640 for the Corvette bracket.

The installation instructions require a fuel/vapor separator or some other assurance that liquid fuel will not enter the canister. Otherwise, the vapor canister will be damaged. The input is a 5/8 inch fitting and the output line to the engine is a 5/16 inch fitting.

[gmachala404]

I am still waiting on my tank, ordered it from Prodigy in August. Jeez it takes forever to get this tank.

[CarlC]

Have you discussed this with Prodigy?

[ErikLS2]

I am still waiting on my tank, ordered it from Prodigy in August. Jeez it takes forever to get this tank.


Call Hector at Rick's. That's what I did and got it in a couple weeks.

[daredvl22]

Yeah, had to do the same thing with mine. I've had to contact the manufacturer on more than one occassion when ordering through Prodigy.

[nine lives johnny]

you have any sfi rated 10 gallon one i could use in the miata.

[CarlC]

Can you fit a fuel cell with a 6" x 10" access plate?

[86slicksilverss]

Just got off the phone with Hector. Real easy guy to talk to and very knowlegable. Any questions you have, give him a call. I now have a tank on order for my 1986 Monte Carlo SS that I am putting an ls1/4l60e in. Thanks Hector and Carl for finally coming through for us g body guys!

Jim

[CarlC]

Jim, all of that Thank You should go to Hector. I can supply the delivery side of it, but Hector and his crew are the ones that have to figure out how to make it fit the chassis.

We'll need pics of the tank once you get it!

[86slicksilverss]

Will do Carl. I'll post before and after install pics.

Jim

[Chevelle LT1]

Hi Carl -

If/when you have a second, I sent you a PM with a couple questions.

Many thanks for the help.

~ Jason