sloppy steering, out of ideas!!!!

[69camarokid]

ok so forthe last 4 to 5 months ive had about 4 inches of dead steering on my car. About 2 inches left and right of dead center.

I decided since im going the pro-touring route to redo the whole steering system to fix this issue and make the steering more track friendly.

Thus far i have purchased and installed a CPP 500 series steering box, new pitman and idler arm, plus all new inner and outer tie rod ends. And yet my steering has not changed at all. I still have dead steering and it is really pissing me off. I got an alignment as well, and this made the cars manners better, but no help on the dead steering.

Im supposed to be taking the car on a road course tomorrow andi would really like to get this fixed first... ideas???

[joemac]

Possibly slop in the steering shaft? Or a bad box? I've got a little '93 ranger that I've got 2" slop in the wheel, an inch either way. I'm planning the same things you have already done except a good custom solid steering shaft. 4" sounds like a lot just from the shaft though. Good luck and I'd be interested to hear what it ends up being.

[KacyZ28]

Have you checked the rag joint on the shaft?

[69camarokid]

i forgot to mention the rag joint is brand new as well.

Had the gf turn the wheel while i was underneath and there is no slop between the steering wheel turning and the rag joint.

Sooooo im still confused,.

[KacyZ28]

The only thing left i cna think of is maybe when the gear box was built/rebuilt they didnt set the gear mesh so it gives a sloppy feel.

[latamud]

I had a lot of slop in my Barracuda and it was mostly from the steering coupler. The rest of the play now is in the box. I did have an issue of small tapered inner tie rod ends that weren't seating.

[69camarokid]

Went back through everything and was able to get the slack down to what feels like about 2 inches of play, but thats while the car is in the air, so who knows howmuch play there will be on the ground.

Turned out the pitman arm was a little loose so the bushing would slide side to side before hittingthe end of its travel and pulling the actual pitman arm with it.

Im going to try tightening the box once its back on the ground and see of perhaps the new box was shipped a little loose?

[John Wright]

Im going to try tightening the box once its back on the ground and see of perhaps the new box was shipped a little loose?I dunno brother.....you might want to give the steering box mfg a call before you do any adjusting on the box itself. They might not stand behind the new steering box if you don't get the lash set right. A new box should be ready to bolt on, you shouldn't need to adjust anything. (easy for me to say sitting here though)

[JEFFTATE]

I dunno brother.....you might want to give the steering box mfg a call before you do any adjusting on the box itself. They might not stand behind the new steering box if you don't get the lash set right. A new box should be ready to bolt on, you shouldn't need to adjust anything. (easy for me to say sitting here though)

Ditto , the new box should be set for pre-load and lash .
If you overtighten it , you will cause premature wear in the box..

It may be , that you DO need to tighten the preload , and thus reduce the lash in the box , but it should have been done when it was rebuilt.
Get a repair manual for your box / vehicle , or look up the specs online , and adjust according to the specs ..
It usually requires an inch pound torgue wrench ..

Double check all your steering linkage ( and wheel bearings too )
I've seen loose wheel bearings cause play..

[John Wright]

Don't forget the ball joints...get the car's front tires just barely off the ground and use a pry bar under the tire and rock the tire to see if there is any play in either ball joint.
Hope you find the offending problem, and get it fixed up so you can enjoy a track day or two.

[68Formula]

Have someone move the wheel back and forth while you look under the hood. Try to see when he moves it, what various components in the system move with it, and which stay stationary.

[69camarokid]

Have someone move the wheel back and forth while you look under the hood. Try to see when he moves it, what various components in the system move with it, and which stay stationary.


I have done this many times and here is what i have seen each time. All the components under the car are tight and new and all turn in unison with no slipping or smushing of the nushings. They all work well.

The wheel and rag joint move in perfect unison with each other leading me to believe that there is not issue in the steering coloum.
What i do notice though, while under the car, is that the rag joint will turn about 50 to 60 degrees before i see the steering box begin to turn the pitman arm.

I have noticed that, and it may only be my imagination, the pitman arm moves oh so slowly as the rag joint turns and then once it finishes that 50 to 60 deegree turn it seems to speed up to normal speed.

Also for whomever said check the ball joints,the tops are brand new with less than 100 miles on them and the bottoms are 3 years old but i checked them with the wheel wiggling technique and they are good.

this is killing me. the car jumped half a lane last night all on the free way by itself.

[69camarokid]

I talked to CPP to see if they had any ideas since i was using their steering box. THey had me attempt to tunr the ragoint by hand. I was able to twist the rag joint with no real effort.

They said this probably means the box is loose. The tech guy advised me to try tightening the box a quarter turn and see if that does it. If not they want me to send back the box. I really hope that i dont have to, its just soooo much extra work. Ive been under this car working on various things for the last week nad a half andi dont want to have to redo this too.

ill let you know how the lash goes.

[Nessumsar]

Sounds like maybe something is bound inside of the box? Is the rag joint tight?

Sure seems to be narrowed down to those 2 items.

edit: you posted as I did, so the rag joint it tight and it has to turn 50* before the box does? Sound like a loose worm gear to me.

[JEFFTATE]

Perhaps the pinch bolt on the rag joint is loose ???
Like , the rag joint is loose where it goes on the splines on the steering box ..

[69camarokid]

Perhaps the pinch bolt on the rag joint is loose ???
Like , the rag joint is loose where it goes on the splines on the steering box ..


ill check that out because i tightened the box quite a bit and it seemed to make very little difference

[Rybar]

Maybe you have the incorrect size rag joint for the box or steering shaft? I would check the spline count and OD measurement on both ends.

Did you purchase the new rag joint from CPP as well?

[Nessumsar]

Make sure you don't overtighten the box!

With the wheels n the air, turn lock to lock and make sure the box doesn't bind anywhere. You can kill a box very quickly if left too tight.

[Mingus]

Sounds like you have narrowed it down to the rag joint or box. I would have a problem with a brand new box that not only has slop, but that they tell you to try and fix for them. I tried to talk myself out of a Lee box several times, but kept hearing about people having problems with AGR. I finally bit the bullet and got one (a 670 even because the 800's were backordered). I am so glad I did. Bolted it on and it worked perfect.

[JEFFTATE]

I second the Lee Box .

[wmhjr]

Make that third.

I have a new freshly rebuilt 800 box from Power Steering Services. It's a very good box. A-body, quick ratio. It performed very well. But, the steering wasn't just quite what I was looking for. Replaced it with a Lee 670 box. Superb.

[69camarokid]

yeah the ragjoint came with the box so theyre set up to go with one another. Im at my wits end so im gonna set up a time to go there and have them check it for me since their headquarters is only a few cities over

[69camarokid]

well i went back out, tried tightening the box a little more to see if it would make a difference, no such luck.

I believe that i just got a messed up box and heres why, feel free to let meknow what you think.

I can turn the ragjoint by hand, not the wheel in the car but the ragjoint itself. It can turn maybe 15 to 20 degrees. When i do this the wheel in the car turns but the pitman arm doesnt move a micron.

I used a mirror to see if the input shaft going into the box moves with the rag joint, and it does. It turns with the ragjoint. So it turns going into the box, but the box doesnt turn the pitman arm at the same time.

Sound like a bad box to you guys???

WEll i spoke to CPP and luckily they are in anaheim, 20 mins from me and they told me to bring back the box and they would send me a new one. Good customer service there.... but im still greatly annoyed that this brand new box which took hours to install and will take hours to remove.... and then more hours to re-install, didnt work.

ugh

[6'9"Witha69]

The second time you do it, it should take half the time! :lol:

That blows big time, but also see what they recommend for fluid rate, since pressure and volume, when incorrectm, can kill a box real quick! Are you using the PS pump from the LT1? what car did it come out of?

[69camarokid]

yes, im using both the stock LT1 power steering pump and resivour.

[6'9"Witha69]

What year and Model car did it come from?

[69camarokid]

What year and Model car did it come from?

1995 Pontiac trans am
The steering stuff all came with the engine together

[69camarokid]

so removed the steering box this morning.... that was fun. Bust atleast this time it only took about an hour and 15 minutes. Last time was 4 hours, but this time i knew what i was doing.

Got it out and tested the intake spline and it would easily turn 15 degrees with no pressure.

So i took it down to Classic Performance Products, since their showroom is only 20 minutes down the freeway. I explained my 3 inches of dead steering to the showroom guy and he took it into the back saying he would check it out.

He came out a few minutes later telling me it was fine and there was nothing wrong. Yeah, that wasnt going to work. So i explained to him again how the intake spline would move up to 15 to 20 degrees by itself explaining that wasnt acceptable. IT was very strange as i told him i had 3 inches of dead steering and he said that 3 inches would allow the whole steering wheel to turn around once.... ?????? didnt make any sense to me either.

But he finally took it in the back again and got a tech to take it apart and look at it. Came back out 10 minutes later and said the intake spline wasnt all the way tight and it was all fixed now.

Intake feels completely solid now so im gonna pop this badboy back in and ill let you know if this solves my dead steering issue.

[paul67]

If it's still faulty it take the car which what I would have done, and show them then ask them to take the box out at there place and fix it and put it back as it was a product at fault.What if you had to pay someonr to do the job,I think they got off light.

[69camarokid]

If it's still faulty it take the car which what I would have done, and show them then ask them to take the box out at there place and fix it and put it back as it was a product at fault.What if you had to pay someonr to do the job,I think they got off light.

i absolutely agree.
In fact after first talking to them i asked if i could bring the car down and have a tech see what i was talking about. They flat out said no, i could only bring the box. Kind of annoying....

[mc84_zz4]

I really hate dealing with front counter guys that want to play 'the customer is crazy' blame-game.
If you can turn the rag joint by hand, even a fraction, there is play in that box. (assuming the rag joint couplings and all bolts are tight) .

I'd get my money back and order a Lee Performance, you will not have any vagueness, slow response, off-center anything!
The entire operation of the steering box has been bench tested, adjusted, and certified.
Lee Performance even returns new cases from Deplhi if they don't mic out perfect.
No disappointments. www.scandc.com, or Lee Performance directly.

So what's going to happen when you finally shake down the car, and are tearing up the streets, and think; the steering is a bit numb, it wanders at speed, or it just seems slugish?
Do you think these guys will stand by their box, and offer to 'look over' and not send you back home with the same POS.
Not saying it's going to happen, but just suppose... JMO

[wmhjr]

I agree. Not only that, but when you took the box back to them they "took it in the back" then came back and said nothing was wrong. If you weren't persistent, you'd still have a box that they claimed to have "inspected" and found "OK".

To be blunt, this story has just decreased the likelihood that I'll purchase anything from CPP. I'm helping my pap on a '54 Chevy pickup and we'll certainly need parts as it's more of a "real nice driver restoration" than anything custom. I'll go elsewhere for parts.

You KNOW a Lee box will be perfect, and that if there's a problem Tom will make it right. If your existing box can still be returned I would immediately get my money back and invest it in a Lee box. What's more - they are BOTH local to you. They're only 30 miles or so apart from each other. That's a no brainer to me. A steering box from a reseller who apparently knows nothing of the engineering and who is reluctant to be interested in making sure your product is correct, or a steering box from a company that was involved in the actual design of the box and probably knows more than anyone else on this planet about them.

[MonzaRacer]

CPP DOES have a bad rep on some stuff. And most isnt good for customer service either.

[Mingus]

As soon as the a**clown in the showroom told me he'd checked the box out and it was fine, I would have demanded my money back and headed for Lee.
I have a CPP aluminum MC with the proportioning valve built in that I never could get to work. Problem is it was a scratch and dent sale (box was beat up but MC wasn't touched) so it was a no return deal. I fought it for a few days and bench bled it forever several times. Bought a Corvette MC and had it on and working right away.
Now it sounds like I don't want to buy a box from them either.
I bought a rebuilt no name box for my wifes' LeMans a few years ago that is an absolute piece of crap. It has a "wander" spot in the middle (not 3" but bad enough). I tried to save some money and I guess I got what I payed for. I was looking at a CPP to replace it but I'm going to end up going with a Lee.

[69camarokid]

well god must hate me...
becuase even after coming back from CPP i still have about 3 inches of play in the steering.

The intake spling before would move about 15 degrees before the pitman arm spline would move. now theyve tightened it up so the pitman arm moves with the intake (steering wheel spline). I would have thought this would solve my probem as it was the only issue i could find to explain the loose steering.... but it didnt help. i still have dead steering.

Im gonna just man u p and sepnd the money to take it to a shop and have it professionally inspected tomorrow. ugh, my wallet is not excited for that.

[ArtosDracon]

It has to be rag joint, I would yank that out and make sure it's all tight, if they forgot to tighten the intake spline on the box, I wouldn't trust the bolts on the ragjoint.

[John Wright]

this story has just decreased the likelihood that I'll purchase anything from CPP.
Yup, me too......
When I get back to working on my car, I will need a box because the factory box is shot, and it looks like it will be one from Lee.

[Mingus]

I would check the idler arm again. Something you said in an earlier post about the car changing half a lane on it's own makes me suspect it. With the car on the ground, have someone turn the wheel back and forth and see if the idler arm moves up or down before going side to side. If it moves up or down even a tiny amount it will cause a lot of play. I used to own a lifted '92 Blazer and it developed a huge "wander" zone in the steering right after I bought it. I checked out all of the steering linkage and the only problem I could find was the idler moved up and down just a little. I figured there was no way that was causing all of the looseness but went ahead and changed it. It solved it completely, though it would eat one every 6 months or so. I saw that you have a new idler, but I've had a brand new one that was bad.

[69camarokid]

I would check the idler arm again. Something you said in an earlier post about the car changing half a lane on it's own makes me suspect it. With the car on the ground, have someone turn the wheel back and forth and see if the idler arm moves up or down before going side to side. If it moves up or down even a tiny amount it will cause a lot of play. I used to own a lifted '92 Blazer and it developed a huge "wander" zone in the steering right after I bought it. I checked out all of the steering linkage and the only problem I could find was the idler moved up and down just a little. I figured there was no way that was causing all of the looseness but went ahead and changed it. It solved it completely, though it would eat one every 6 months or so. I saw that you have a new idler, but I've had a brand new one that was bad.

The idler arm is good.
The steering wheel and rag joint can move upwards of 15 degrees with no movement in the pitman arm.

Well they tightened the intake spline so it didnt jiggle anymore, but however they did it obviously wasnt a quality permenate fix because as soon as i turned the wheel with it reinstalled it started to jiggle again.

So i said **** it and took it to a local suspension shop with a really good reputation. The head guy came out adn spent about 5 minutes looking at it, turning the ragjoint by hand. He said theres no doubt in his mind that its a bad box, because the rag joint moves and the pitman arm doesnt move simultaniously.

oh, and on top of that, the nut to tighten the internals on top of the box, has been leaking since they gave it back to me.
This box is a piece of ****. a 400 piece of crap.

[wmhjr]

Now even more, I'd push REAL hard to have them take the box back and I'd get a box from Lee.

[paul67]

Drive the car there kick up a stink :spank2:

[69camarokid]

im heading up on my way there now.
Let you guys know how it turns out.

[KacyZ28]

Drive the car there kick up a stink :spank2:

the only problem with doing that is they wont give him a refnd and he will still have to drive the car back sloppy streering and all home pull the box off then go back with it.

On the other hand with the car there he can show every customer that is there at the time thier "quality" of products.

[JEFFTATE]

Have another person crawl up under your car with you and get a second opinion ..
Something is not right about the diagnosis ..

[mc84_zz4]

Sorry to hear your troubles, but here is the road to better steering:
http://www.scandc.com/leesteering.htm

Side by side of stock vs Lee Perf 670 box:

[69camarokid]

ok... so i got there and sat around their showroom for a good 15 minutes as they only had one guy working their showroom. When i was finally helped i told the guy i had been there yesterday with the box and had it "repaired" and it still was not function correctly.

After another 10 minutes or so they finally sent out a tech guy. He was the only good thing about the place. He walked right on out, looked at my steering set up, and after seeing the wheel and ragjoint turn without the pitman moving admitted that i must have a bad box. He said the intake spline must be bad. The intake spline was the part theyuhad supposedly fixed the day before. Before i pent hours reinstalling it!

Well I told him i didnt want the current box repair, nad that i would only accept my money back or a new box that had been checked out. He said he completely understood and that he wouldget me a new, unused box. He even said he would bench test it and flow test it to make sure this new one worked perfectly.

So after another 15 minutes, as they were testing the new one, he came out, telling me that he and 2 other techs had inspected and tested it and guarenteed it would work perfectly.

I just got home so im gonna head outside and get started on this process.... again. I have to get it done as i have a road race tomorrow and i dont want to miss it. But if this box doesnt work as well..... then holy **** will i PISSED.

well heres good luck to me and ill let you guys know how this new one works out.

[Nessumsar]

:fingersx:

[Rybar]

Good luck, if I were you I'd want to throw that bad box through thier showroom window.

Looks like Lee is the best box out there.

[Rod]

I would look into an AGR (http://www.agrperformance.com/) box Nascar has abused these in there cars for years I have one in my own car (2 years of autocross driving monthly and daily driving) there a direct bolt in without and hose adapters

[Mingus]

Sad thing it doesn't seem like Lee is the just the best box out there, but the only brand that doesn't have lots of "bad" ones.

[John Wright]

Waiting for an update...how did it do with the new box?

[69camarokid]

Waiting for an update...how did it do with the new box?


didnt finish getting it installed before the sun went down last night. Should have it finished installed within an hour or two and i will let you know.

[69camarokid]

I have now removed and installed the Classic Performance Products 500 series steering box 3 times. I have received two bad boxes from them with loose intake splines that can jiggle up to 15 degrees, or roughly 2.5 -3.0 inches in the steering wheel. I have also had one botched fix, where they "fixed" the loose intake spline. They didnt, it came loose again upon first turn of the wheel.

I have now wasted over $400.00 on the box, an additional $150.00 on other steering components when they swore it couldnt possibly be the box, and lost over two weeks of time pulling this box in and out along with all the other components that must be removed and installed each time to get to the box.

DO NOT PURCHASE FROM CPP!

As im sure youve now guessed, this second box that i was promised was test by three of their engineers and guarenteed to be functioning perfectly did not work. I am not happy adn they will be discovering that when i make my way to their showroom tomorrow.

[mc84_zz4]

:machine:
:machine:
:machine:
Fool me once; shame on you, Fool me twice, I'm bringing a 2x4.... lol

Count to 100 before you walk in, your only objective is to get your money back and leave.
Be professional (as best as you can) and just walk away once you get refund/money in hand.
Write a letter to the company with your complaint, the counter guys will not care, they are only
drones.

[69camarokid]

:machine:
:machine:
:machine:
Fool me once; shame on you, Fool me twice, I'm bringing a 2x4....

sir.... i like your style

[wmhjr]

Sorry to hear about the issues. I really hope you can get your money back. I would be as calm as possible, but would probably immediately ask for a manager when you get there in a very calm and straightforward manner.

[jknight16]

I would hope that their QC manager/Product manager would be very interested in why they had two new boxes and one internally-repaired box that all encountered the same failure. If this doesn't at least raise someone's curiosity around there, I guess that would speak volumes about the company's attitude towards quality.

Any of us gearheads would want to find out why it's happening to satisfy our own natural curiosity, nevermind that they should want to research further for the sake of their reputation.

[paul67]

I would nail for the box the parts time ,and labour ,if they refuse take them to a trading standard as I would say the boxes are not fit for purpose, they are lethal.:ripped::drive2:

[John Wright]

I would hope that their QC manager/Product manager would be very interested in why they had two new boxes and one internally-repaired box that all encountered the same failure. If this doesn't at least raise someone's curiosity around there, I guess that would speak volumes about the company's attitude towards quality.

Any of us gearheads would want to find out why it's happening to satisfy our own natural curiosity, nevermind that they should want to research further for the sake of their reputation.I agree.....I wonder what is going on with their boxes? Like I said earlier, this thread has convinced me to spend the few extra bucks and get the box from/by Lee.

[nicks67camaro]

Can you get your money back?

[wmhjr]

I agree.....I wonder what is going on with their boxes? Like I said earlier, this thread has convinced me to spend the few extra bucks and get the box from/by Lee.

As far as I am concerned, there are only two places that I would consider sourcing a steering box from.

Lee Manufacturing: Tom probably knows more about these boxes than any person alive, and the product (while more expensive than alternatives) is top notch - as well as the support both before AND after the sale. They consistently deliver as promised, and as far as NASCAR, Tom has more boxes deployed in NASCAR than all other boxes combined.

Power Steering Services (Chip): I also have dealt with Power Steering Services. Chip is excellent and provides a great product and service. I wouldn't consider it quite as much a "high performance" solution compared to Lee, but is probably superior than anyone else I've found so far. His prices are a bit lower than Lee but not dirt cheap. I have an 800 box that Chip rebuilt along with conversion to quick ratio, and it's a good box. I only switched to a 670 from Lee because it wasn't quite the "feel" I was looking for (after driving another car with a Lee 670 in it). To be honest, it's a great product.

I would frankly not consider any other vendor.

[77thor]

Wow... this is great info because I have been considering a new box. I will now go with the Lee box once I get some $$$ saved up.

[69camarokid]

Can you get your money back?

I cant see any legitamate reason why after giving me two bad boxes, and one bad fix they could not refund me my money.

[69camarokid]

ok, so just got off the phone with lee performance in sun valley.
The woman i talked to on the phone knew her stuff, answered all my questions and was wayyy nicer than anyone i talked to at CPP.

She went over all the info i wanted and set meup with everything i needed for my car. She told me i could expect it to arrive in about 5 to 6 days. I mentioned off hand that i was trying to get the car to the track this upcoming tuesday and she sped up my shipping so it will arrive in 2 days at no extra cost.
Now that is some great customer service.

I wont lie, this hit my wallet hard at nearly 700 bucks for everything and tax, but if it fixes my steering and gets me rid of these horrible cpp 500 boxes then itll be worth every penny.

[RobNoLimit]

I hate to hear this kind of stuff. Being in the parts buisiness, I see all sides of these things. In the past, we have got poor quality parts from some manufacturers, and it causes us problems. - and we still have to stand behind them. But, if it's a part that WE manufacture, then it is totaly up to us to back it up. I hope you get this sorted out, and hope to see you out at Adams next week.

[RobNoLimit]

PS. you will like the Lee box.

[Nessumsar]

Did you get with CPP on returning your box?

[mc84_zz4]

There, I fixed it!: :1st:

PS. you will LOVE the Lee box.

[JEFFTATE]

I'm glad you are making headway with this situation.

But , let me say this : Working on cars is not always a smooth process .Things hardly ever go as planned , or as smooth as planned , and it always costs more than anticipated and takes a lot more time. Working on cars is not like buying a stamp .
You have to learn to improvise and roll with the punches .

[wmhjr]

I'm glad you are making headway with this situation.

But , let me say this : Working on cars is not always a smooth process .Things hardly ever go as planned , or as smooth as planned , and it always costs more than anticipated and takes a lot more time. Working on cars is not like buying a stamp .
You have to learn to improvise and roll with the punches .

Jeff, you're sure right about that.

OTOH, in this situation the OP has been taken for a ride. We're not talking about how a particular custom part isn't exactly fitting, or where the feel is slightly off.

We're talking about essentially an OEM type component, sold by a vendor, that is apparently not functioning to published design specs (and frankly is creating a safety issue). I fully agree that if we're talking about changing roll centers, moving an axis on a 4 link suspension, playing with different combos of aftermarket brakes, it takes some effort and there are always some backward steps. But when we're talking about loose shafts out of the box in multiple boxes and a complete failure to support the customer, the OP has a real right to be ticked off.

[69camarokid]

went down to CPP today, there was a different guy working behind the counter today (yes!) He was pretty good and took back the boxes after i explained the issues. I got all my money back, so it all worked out.

I also picked up and installed a lee 670 delphi box and i havnt had a chance to test it more than just around the neighborhood but already i can tell its miles above the cpp 500 series box.

Ill be testing it for real on the track this upcoming tuesday

[Mingus]

Great news. It's cool that they took them back without a fuss. You're still out all of your time but that beats being out time and money.

[wmhjr]

Excellent! You're in a way better position now. Have fun at the track!

[John Wright]

I got all my money back...............

I also picked up and installed a lee 670 delphi box Sweet...sounds like things worked out for ya.:smoke:

[LV42DAY]

im glad i read this. i been thinking about getting that 500 box for a while since my steering is sloppy as hell... id be a hell of a lot more pissed had i had to take the box out, send by mail just to get another one or have that one replaced, etc etc all by mail. thanks for writing this up. a good parts review is always a big help when deciding on parts. most people are scared to write bad reviews but i think if a part is crap, the world should know.

[Type73LT]

How is it working. We need an update.

[69camarokid]

the new box from lee is much tighter and way better, not to mention easier to install, than the cpp 500 box. Im very happy with it. Though i do feel like when i hit bumps at high speeds the car will jump a lil. but before with the cpp box i could drive above 60 without being scared ****less. With the new box ive had it up to 110 with no steering issues or wandering.

[mc84_zz4]

...when i hit bumps at high speeds the car will jump a lil.
You could have a touch of bump steer.
Baer trackers will let you adjust the angle of the tie-rods to minimize the effect.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/BAE-3301014/
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/bae3261001_w-1.jpg

[John Wright]

^^These are adjustable to help improve any steering geometry that may be causing the bump steering issue. The drag link is trying to get longer and shorter as the suspension travels up and down...you can correct some of this by adjusting those tie rod ends as required to better center them in a plane where they don't move as much when the suspension cycles through it's arc. Watch some videos on YT of some Chevelles and such launching at the drag strip, pay close attention to the front tires and the direction they are pointing as the front tires are unloading and then when they land again.

[69camarokid]

ill look into those...

but i always feel. even with my new lee 670 box that my steering is disconnected from my wheels when the steering wheel is at dead center. It doesnt need nearly as much turn now to engage, but i can still turn it maybe 1/3 of an inch either way before the steering engages.

for example: when i come around a corner, lets say turning left. I turn the wheel left, go through the turn and as i come out i will turn the wheel slowly to the right until my steering wheel is back at dead center. The car will not straighten out completely... ill need to give it a small bump to the right until it is straight and then go back to center.

[Mingus]

It might be down to needing an alignment at this point. Glad the new steering box is working out.

[John510]

Good thing I read this post. I am in the marking for a new steering box. Now I know not to buy a CPP

[lnirenberg]

I needed to resurrect this well beaten horse because I installed the CPP box this spring (although I had bought it early last year) and experienced the similar problems with about 2" of play in the box and a leak from the input shaft. I understand if no one wants to read the foregoing as it is long but I was playing with them to try to see if the bottom line was a moving target but unfortunately customer service is still way down the priority chain. I recently bought a steering kit from them--center link, pitman arm and idler and that worked very well. In the end, I will not be shopping there again so here is the chain of emails that went back and forth yesterday:

Sent an email inquiry on how to get a new box given aforementioned problems.
Got this the next morning:
Good Morning Larry,
I just sent you the return info for your warranty. We will need to have this box back here and evaluate it first due to being a couple years old. So we would not be able to do what you are requesting.
Once the box is here you are looking at a 5-7 day turnaround.
Thanks,
Aaron Strietzel
[email protected]
Classic Performance Products Inc.
I Replied:
Even though I bought the box a few winters ago, the box was installed this spring and maybe has 500 miles on it. It is my understanding that your parts have a lifetime warranty per your website--
ALL PARTS GUARANTEED FOR LIFE...{should have realized ... meant read the small print}
Whether that means the parts life or mine I qualify on both accounts.
I will probably try to get by until the car season is over as it is already August and I don’t want the car to be down for what will best case be 2+ weeks between taking the box out, getting it you, your evaluation, shipping a new box and my reinstall. If it starts to give me too much trouble I will buy a new one and send the old one back once I make the swap. I expect that this will work out as I saw your fearless leader’s promise to the restoration/pro-touring community in one of the myriad of monthly magazines I read that he was re-focusing CPP on customer service.
They replied:
Hi Larry,
The product itself carries a lifetime warrantee; the means that we take care of that particular product. If it’s this month or 10 years from now it still needs to be sent in for an evaluation. This does not mean a new box will automatically be sent out. This is based on the evaluation on how we proceed. Here is a link to this info from the catalog and from our website: http://www.classicperform.com/policies.htm
So when you’re ready to send it in for us to look at please let us know. We would be happy to do so.
Thanks
Aaron Strietzel
To which I replied:
I am confused. Do you mean you may rebuild it or send me a new one and that’s what you evaluate? My time is way too valuable to remove and reinstall a brand new steering box just so I can get a new new box. The box leaks and has excessive play, what exactly do you need to evaluate?
To which they replied:
Hi Larry,
The Bottom line is we have to have the gear box here first. This is the policy on a warranty claim. Again, because these are not just automatically replaced and depending on what we find they are repaired or replaced at our discretion.
Thanks,
Aaron Strietzel
To which I replied:
I will wait until car season is over. I cannot leave this without editorial comment—I get that this policy was developed to avoid spurious claims regarding defective/failed parts that you have supplied. You will pardon me in advance if I find the use of “policy” as a hiding spot weak at best. You are not a monolithic institution which is run by laws and statutes but rather a small to mid-size business existing to service the needs of the auto enthusiast community and as such I am not looking for you to take my word for anything and fully expect you to scrutinize the box that I will return. My proposal was for me to buy (as in pay for) a new box and once you had a chance to inspect my box to confirm the accuracy of what I have told you about the issues I am having, then you would issue a credit. If you decide, using reasonable discretion, that the box is not problematic then you could withhold the credit. If you decide the box is rebuildable, then I don’t think its unreasonable, given the inconvenience this has caused me, to expect you will rebuild it and sell it to someone else at whatever price a rebuilt unit is worth. Giving me the choice of either living with the problem for several months until driving season is over or taking my car off the road for the next 2-3 weeks is not what I would call reasonable. I leave you with what is the real bottom line for any company (let alone a company in a highly competitive business niche during a major economic upheaval)and that customer service means meeting the reasonable requests of your customer base.
To which they replied:
Larry,
We don’t sell this box as a rebuild type box so therefore this is why we cannot just exchange automatically. If this is a simple fix it will be repaired and sent back to you… If you were to buy another box at the end of this warranty you would most likely end up with both steering boxes and like mentioned before we could not sell as new so this is the reason for you sending this back first before anything is shipped out.
After your driving season is over contact me and I’ll give you another RMA number to reference.
Thanks,
Aaron Strietzel
To which I replied yesterday:
Again, I will wait until winter but you basically missed my point regarding your relegation of customer service to doing the minimum necessary. Do me a favor and Google “Stew Leonard’s”. It is a very successful retail company based in Connecticut. The motto that built the company is the following--
"Rule #1 -- The Customer is Always Right"; Rule #2 - If the Customer is Ever Wrong, Re-Read Rule #1."
Unfortunately, this is not my first encounter with your vaunted “customer service”. I bought a hydro-boost system for my Bel- Air from you which at the time had a relatively long lead time. Unfortunately, the customer rep I placed the order with wasn’t paying attention and ordered a small block unit and when I contacted your company I was told I would have the same wait time as I had for the 1st unit. Not finding this acceptable I called the manufacturer and talked to the owner directly and he was very apologetic (even though it was not his screw up) and he promised me he would stay late and build my unit that night and send it out the next—which he did. Since then he has freely given me followup info on how to quiet the system down which I have been able to do and am very pleased with the system. Now that’s customer service. I assume you are OK with me posting the exchange you and I have had on pro-touring.com, lateral-g.com and the various Chevy forums I am a member of?
It might be helpful for you to read this thread as this directly relates to your reputation with the pro-touring community--
https://www.pro-touring.com/showthread.php?72253-sloppy-steering-out-of-ideas!!!!
Please read the whole thread. By the way, I wasn’t advising you to rebuild my box and sell it as new as no reputable retailer would do that. I was saying, rebuild and sell as rebuilt and take the hit as I already have a 2nd install in my future.

Aaron is now so sick of my ball busting that he has stopped responding.
After reading the entire thread I realize I will get the same BS as 69 camarokid except I will have the lag time of living on the opposite coast and likely never get my money back because they can either hang up the phone or stop emailing me back (see above) and the possibility I can make myself a nuisance in person is highly remote. Plan B of either a Lee box or a Delphi 670 will be put in place after car season.

[l_and_t_reproductions]

After reading this post your issues with CPP have made up my mind on not only their brake components but the rest of their product as well. I will stay FAR FAR away from anything sold and labled CPP. Thanks for the info, just sorry you had to be the test subject to figure the issues out.

[lnirenberg]

To clarify I also bought a steering linkage kit frOm them and it was fine. It just seems when problems arise it gets a little dicey and they lack a certain sense of urgency that I like to see when issues arise. I would however stay away from their steering boxes at all costs as the quality is inconsistent.