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Jagarang
05-17-2005, 07:36 AM
Well here's the dilemma.

I need someone with the stereo know how or in the business to help me formulate a mid to high quality sounding sound system.

I need help designing a sound system for my project. I've been studying stereo systems stuff for a few weeks and I'm no closer to actually making any hard decisions. I have a general idea regarding the quality of components I'd like to use, and some basic parameters I would like to pay close attention to in the setup.

It seems like the local shops only want to make up a system that will benefit their bottom line and not necessarily a quality component set-up that sounds good and does what it's supposed to without being obnoxious and overpriced.

In an effort to keep costs reasonable, I was thinking about using a single 5-channel amp to run the system. After talking with my local stereo shop, they had some discouraging comments regarding my rookie system design attempt. Here is what is was looking like...

Soundstream TRA800.5 5 Channel TRA880.5 $589.98
NUMBER OF CHANNELS: 5
OUTPUT (WATTS):
Channel 1+2: RMS @ 4 Ohms 60x4+200x1 to run
------------------MB Quart ReferenceRCE-213 $175.00
Channel 3+4: RMS @ 2 Ohms 120x4+400x1 to run
------------------MB Quart Reference6"x9" 2-way component / coaxial
------------------system with .75" tweeter$229.00
Channel 5 :RMS Bridged @ 4 Ohms 240 X 2+400x1 to run
------------------10W6V2 JL Subwoofer @ 400 Bridged $275.00

Amp Specs cont.

T.H.D.: < 0.02%
Frequency Response (Hz): 10 - 50k
SIGNAL TO NOISE RATIO: > 115dB
DAMPING FACTOR: >500
INPUT SENSITIVITY: 0.15 - 12.0V
CROSOVER SLOPE: 12dB
CROSSOVER FREQUENCY (HZ): 50 - 5k
DIMENSIONS (INCHES): 10.75x2.6x21.5

Total so far........$$1270

I thought an external active crossover was a necessity, however, my local dealer pointed out that the MB Quart mids and highs come with their own passive crossovers and the amp has crossovers built in as well for the sub-woofer. Are these sufficient? From what I've read, external propietary units are better for quality sound, as long as you can avoid importing system "noise" by using them.
One possible crossover I've found was a Linkwitz-Riley circuit unit from..

AudioControl 6XS 6-Channel Electronic Crossover / Remote Level / PFM $258.35

The head unit, a Kenwood KRC-3006, limits my system design due to it's weak performance parameters. I need to make up for the head unit with through the rest of the system. The head unit specs are in the top left portion of page four on this document. Sorry I couldn't figure out a way to post just a page of it....
ftp://docs.kenwoodusa.com/manuals/OM-KRC-3006-1994-KUSA.pdf

I’m not opposed to running multiple amps except for cost concerns. The local shop suggested a muti-amp setup to optimize sound quality and performance. If I can get 3 quality mono amps for approx the same amount of $$ as a single 5 channel then it's feasible. But if 3 amps is going to triple the cost of the set-up then I'm not liking the possibilities. I've searched high and low for a "System Design Service", but they just don't seem to exist. Perhaps this is related to the number of variables inherent in tackling this sort of problem.

This is a start...I'll add more as I get it today.

Anybody out there that knows this kind of stuff that could help a fellow enthusiast get the best for his money.

CAMAROBOY69
05-17-2005, 08:20 AM
To start with NO you will not need an external crossover. That right away will eliminate some of your headache and hair pulling. The deck, the component systems, and the amps all have built in crossovers with more options than the average person can handle or really need at all.

OK I just looked at that deck and you will definetly need amps.

What speakers? The size of the speakers? I would really try to fit 6 1/2" speakers thruought the car if you can. Front and rear. No matter what you do try to get the component system set ups for your mids and tweeters inside the car.

Ok this will be a good start for myself and other members to help you out with. Keep in mind this isnt rocket science and a lot of people will try to fill your head with useless information and stats that confuse the heck out of everyone.

If you just plan on running 4 inside speakers and subs you could get away with just 2 amps. One for the inside speakers and one seperate one for the subs.

Is there any reason you dont want a different head unit?? That deck only has 2 pre-outs which is really going to make your life misreable for the sound you are looking for.

Jagarang
05-17-2005, 08:42 AM
Frank and I decided that we needed a unit to fit in a non modified dash.

Radio Joe is "transplanting" the Kenwood internals into the stock radio housing. The radio will fit exactly as intended and yet be fully digital with MP3/Satlelite Radio/i-POD compatibility. Unfortunatly the stock 69 Firebird dash is even worse for aftermarket headunit placement than a Camaro, and most other vintage dash assemblies. I also got a good deal on the Kenwood unit, which also included a 10 Disk remote mounted CD changer.

scogin918
05-18-2005, 05:17 AM
i always like to keep it simple. Components up front would come with a crossover. you can find MB Quart or Boston Acoustic relatively cheap on www.ubid.com. These are high end units and easy to install. Go with a good mid-range in the back deck and either one 12" or 2 10" subs and you'll have all the sound you'll ever need. You can have one amp run the speakers and one dedicated to the sub. Some head units even have a crossover for the sub seperate from the equalizer(Pioneer Premier is one that comes to mind). Just remember the K.I.S.S. method and you'll do fine.

Jagarang
05-18-2005, 05:25 AM
As usual I seem to be over engineering! I need to spend some time in the Tibetan mountains with the K.I.S.S. doctrine!

CAMAROBOY69
05-18-2005, 05:31 AM
Kevin and I had a really nice long chat yesterday that I hope summed up any of his questions. In conclusion I also told him he really only needed 2 amps for the set up he wanted. He also wont be running any RCA cables due to the deck set up conversion that he is going for to keep the modern looking deck. Very trick.

zbugger
05-18-2005, 10:38 AM
As usual I seem to be over engineering! I need to spend some time in the Tibetan mountains with the K.I.S.S. doctrine!
Kevin Kevin Kevin Kevin Kevin Kevin Kevin........ The keep it simple doctrine is really needed when it comes to this. The one thing that I've been looking at is the fact that you haven't said what music you're gonna be playing. That is something that definitely has an effect on the components you're gonna be using. You can have all the latest and greatest parts, but it may not sound good because it isn't matched to what you are listening to. Om fact, that's the first question I ask when someone asks me for this kind of advice. What kind of music is it? Name a couple bands or artists. A competition system is different from an audiophile system is different from a bass system is different from...... Get my drift? It just makes it easier. Send me a PM and we can talk too. I'm not the most knowledgeable on it, but I can give you a godd simple baseline to start from.

CAMAROBOY69
05-18-2005, 10:51 AM
I have been building car stereos for 12 years now for anything ranging from very old cars to new cars. Im not a professional at all but just about every one of these systems has been capable of handling ANY kind of music ranging from opera to rap to heavy metal. :firefire: The crossovers in the amps and the component systems will allow him to tune to any kind of music he wants to listen to with ease. He will be able to adjust each speakers mid low and high. Same with the subs.

Bill Howell
05-18-2005, 05:57 PM
Why not get a walkman? If you need high tech buy a splitter and extra set of headphones. :lol:



I know I know :getout:

Jagarang
05-18-2005, 06:06 PM
Hmmmm.....the slammer obviously didn't teach you ENOUGH!

yody
05-18-2005, 08:13 PM
how do you get away with not running RCA cables??

Jagarang
05-18-2005, 08:37 PM
Old fashioned speaker wire I'm told! Still working on it.
I have two amps, a 12in sub, 2 6x9 component mids with tweeters and crossover, and 2 6.5 in component with tweeters and crossover for about 1500 so far. The amps are JBL and the speakers are all Infinity pieces.
I'm pretty happy with that # IF they will all work together properly.

CAMAROBOY69
05-19-2005, 03:40 AM
how do you get away with not running RCA cables??
Yody he will have to use the wires off the back of the deck since he cant use the RCA cables for each speaker. Keep in mind he is using an original old style deck with some modern internal upgrades. The wires will work just fine in place of the RCA cables. They are just positive and negative. He just had to make sure his amps would accept the wire input.

Kevin,
Sounds like you are definetly on the right track. The (1) 12" sub will be perfect for the bass that you need. The 6.5" component system will be perfect for up front and the 6x9 component system will work well in the rear. You will be very happy with the results. Glad you paid attention. :icon996:
EDIT: I forgot to mention. For the sound you want, I would stay away from a bandpass box. The bandpass box will not produce the sound you want with that 12. Get a ported or sealed box. I preferr sealed but it depends on the specs for the speaker. Some speakers work better in different boxes.

Bill Howell had the next best idea--walkman. :lmao:

Jagarang
05-19-2005, 04:24 AM
Don't encourage him Adam!

Rick Dorion
05-19-2005, 06:50 AM
I like my Discman :)

hessdawg
05-28-2005, 11:51 AM
hey

are there any rca outputs on the kenwood. cause with both of my alpine 5 ch amps have selectable imputs for rca's. pleale use rca's

Radio Joe
05-30-2005, 09:17 AM
The Kenwood Radio does have RCA outputs, but there is only one set left and right. They are also set as rear channels. So if you want to be able to control fader for the speakers, you need to use the speaker outputs.

While we are here talking about people adjusting their amps- REMEMBER_ never adjust the gain of your amp past 3/4 of full. Too much can cause the amp to overheat and burn out.

Kevin has definitely been doing his research for this system. Im sure the end result will be amazing!

1 BAD BIRD
05-30-2005, 05:38 PM
Hey Kevin, Maybe check out fbodyaudio.com. They are mostly 3rd, 4th gens but go to the forums and ask for Mike (DJSexay) He is the mod and installed a sound quality system in my 99 TA. The guy has more knowledge than I ever could hope to have about car audio. He also competes professionally in the IASCA sound comps. Here is the link to my old install and the board

Install
http://www.fbodyaudio.com/gallery/1badbird

Forums
http://fbodyaudio.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl

PS How is the car coming?

Bob S.
1 BAD BIRD