Hello From Minnesota Talon/Javelin/Firebird

[archertsi]

Hello all, Names Brian, another guy with too many projects and dreams.

I work for a company here in Duluth called Archer Racing Accessories (www.archerracing.com) and I am a pit crew mechanic/fabricator/jack of all trades and master at none.

I strive to do all of my work myself on my cars and to perfect everything I can. I build my own engines/exhaust/suspension and paint. My friends joke that I am an "army of 1" because I do it all alone.

My most recent project that is slowly nearing completion is a 1995 Eagle Talon TSi AWD. The car started life as a front wheel drive turbo and now has been converted to all wheel drive. The engine was stroked from a 2 liter to a 2.4 liter. Fully balanced weisco pistons, eagle rods, self ported head, cams, blah blah. Currently running on E85 at 25 lbs of boost (500-550 hp) with hopes of 35-40 lbs of boost (700-850 hp?)

Traction has been an issue (spinning 4 225 tires in 1st and 2nd gear) and the car needed a re-spray so I decided to widebody the car to fit 275 tires all the way around, while still appearing as a close to stock as possible. I had new raw steel quarter panels and an extra set of fenders. The quarter panels were cut off, new ones were cut and modified to flare out wider an welded on. It took 4 front fenders to make 2 wide fenders. All in all the car was widened 4 inches (2 inches on each side). Still in the process of more wet sanding and buffing, along with installing misc trim and mouldings, but once it's done, I hope to send off some pictures to and import magazine in hopes of an article.

Any way here is the car:

Before (Notice the Viper Brakes I installed on the front)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/newbrakes-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/IMG_3075-1.jpg

During
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Currently:

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The goal with the car all along was to build a fast daily driveable car that runs the same set up every day. I wanted the same HP and traction on street as I do at the drag strip. No changing fuels or tires at the track. All while still being able to drive it to work every day.

[archertsi]

Any way, I Have not always been into the tuner cars. My first car when I was 13 was a 1986 Cutlass, still hope to get another one of those some day. Next when I was 16 was my 79 Firebird which I still have though it has not seen the road in over 10 years. It sits in storage waiting for restoration, hopefully soon.

My father owns a 1973 AMC Javelin AMX. It has the tic-tach dash and Pierre Cardon interior. This is the next car on my build list for this winter. I feel I owe it to my father and I know with out my help, I doubt he will ever get it done. So far he has built a motor for it, 401 with a high rise intake and demon carb. (this is about all that I know on the engine though I do know much more was done to it. He has allot of time and research into the build)

This car is my main reason for joining the site. This winter we hope to clean it up. I'd like to make the bumpers fit as they should, they may get re-chromed or maybe painted. Something has to be done with the drip rails as they stick out waaaay too far. Would like to see it on a set of 17 inch rims. Something more modern but still with a decent sidewall as this is what my father likes. Currently the car is very rust free and very straight, the color is an orangish red with the white AMX "T" on the hood. Dad wants the same red as my Talon (Penske Dodge Viper Red) and a black AMX "T".

Any other AMX owners on here? Anyone with some more info on pro-touring these?

[archertsi]

Plans for the Firebird consist of something like the following:

455 pontiac with twin carb intake manifold
2 454 TBI units with megasquirt for tuning
twin turbo, one turbo feed each throttle body
4 link the rear, air ride all the way around
18x12 rear wheels with 335 tire and a mini tub
18x9or10 front wheels with a 275 (?)
Dark grey (gun metal) paint with all chrome pieces painted black
78 front end with silverado headlights
steel rear bumper made to my liking
led tail lights
More modern interior

Something like that, Im sure I will find more firebird/ TA owners here to give me ideas.

[brans72]

Welcome aboard just was up in two habors a while back have family near St Cloud now.

[asifnyc]

Javelin / AMX owner here :smoke: I've been obsessed with Javelin's since the late '80s. I've got some posts on this site and lot's of info on my blog: http://asifnyc.com

post some pictures of the Javelin!

[archertsi]

Thanks guys. Ill have to take some pictures of the AMX but that means uncovering it and removing a half inch of bondo dust.

Hope to fit it with some 17's, either 9's or 10's in the rear and 8's or 9's in the front. Tire size, im thinking 255-275 in the front and 275-305 in the rear. Haven't had time to measure anything yet though I picture 275/45 front and 275/55 rear or something. Would still like to see some sidewall in the rear.

Javelins seemed to be the odd duck from what I am told (I wasn't around back in the 70's) but the car intrigues me because you just don't see them everywhere. (atleast where I live)

Currently it looks like it's right out of the 70's. Someone put station wagon springs in the front to raise it up. The front spoiler was extended to look like the road course cars with a big "Javelin AMX by AMC" printed on it and the rear spoiler. The rear has been shackled up with some big m50 or m60 tires. This is how we bought it in 1995 after it was in storage for 12 years. It's pretty much been in storage since, but with a fresh 401 now that we pulled from a Wagoneer.

[wellis77]

Hey Brian, welcome to pt.com. Nice mods on the Talon. Looking forward to seeing what you do with the Javelin as well.

Since you work for Archer, any chance you can help me with some Viper info? I'm adapting Viper suspension to a '69 Dart and need to get some ride height (frame to ground) specs in order to build my suspension jig. I don't want to mud up your thread with my questions, but I'd love to hear thoughts about mods to stock suspension in order to get the best performance out of the SRT-10 stuff. Thanks.

[CruizinKev]

welcome aboard! good work on the talon! :twothumbs

[archertsi]

Hey Brian, welcome to pt.com. Nice mods on the Talon. Looking forward to seeing what you do with the Javelin as well.

Since you work for Archer, any chance you can help me with some Viper info? I'm adapting Viper suspension to a '69 Dart and need to get some ride height (frame to ground) specs in order to build my suspension jig. I don't want to mud up your thread with my questions, but I'd love to hear thoughts about mods to stock suspension in order to get the best performance out of the SRT-10 stuff. Thanks.


Not a problem, probably not a bad place for it.

Im not quite sure I totally understand how you are doing your suspension. Are you using a Viper frame also or just the control arms/knuckles/shocks/springs/toe arms/rack?

I know we shoot for a 1/4" of rake in the cars, our ride height really depends on what it's for. Most of our cars are for road race (obviously) so we run much stiffer springs/moton shocks and a much lower ride height. Suspension changes are made while we test at a track.

Any way, again depends on how you are doing your swap.

[wellis77]

I'm building a custom chassis for my 69 Dart, and adapting all four corners from a Gen 3. What I have are frame cuts from each corner that I will bolt the a-arms, knuckle/hubs, coil-overs, and wheels to, then build a jig to hold the components in those locations. I will then move the jig with components in place using their factory pick-ups over to my chassis and build brackets around those locations. Car will be mostly street-driven but will see autox and a few track days a year. My plan at this point is to use Ride Tech on the corners. That will give me a bit more comfortable ride on the street (I've never driven a Viper but I've "heard" in stock form that are not extremely comfortable), and then adjust the shocks for the track. I also won't have to mess with finding the right spring since the weight of my car will be different than that of the Viper and I wouldn't be able to use typical Viper springs. I've spent some time on viperalley and vca asking questions but haven't gotten too far.

In order to build my suspension jig, I need to know the height of the frame from the ground at each of the LCA mounting points. Having a hard time finding that information whether it's for a stock SRT-10 or something more race-bred. Obviously I don't want to mess up the geometry so I want to get the frame to ground measurements correct when I build the jig.

I also understand (heard) there exists a factory Viper chassis jig with different suspension pick-ups, one is stock and one is a race setup I think. Since my car will mostly be street driven I don't see a need to change from factory geometry unless it is bad and can be better optimized.

I hope that fills in any blanks I may have left before. I appreciate any info you can provide. Also, any idea where I can get a manual or information on rebuilding the Gen 3 rearend? I got a smoking deal on one but I have to assemble it.

[Torquedork]

Brian,

I can get you information and ideas on the Javelin/AMX and say Hi to Tommy Archer for me!

Back in the '90's, I did an article on Tommy and Bobby for Muscle Mustangs on their Trans Am Racing and it was called "Family Affair". I photographed them at Road America.

I have a '71 AMX that is a blend of quiet blend of Resto/Mod and Pro/Touring that is lowered with 16 x 8 Halibrand 5 spokes, KYB's custom rate springs, sway bars, 12.7:1 quick ratio steering gear and so on. I have a friend who just finished a beautiful '73 AMX with 17 inch Minilites and goes beyond what I did. I will get him to join and post photos.

Hope all is well with Tommy AND Bobby.

[Josue]

Welcome! Love those DSM's...I had an AWD and a FWD years ago. I used to live close to Buschur Racing, and passed it every time I went to the track...always cool stuff in the parking lot!

[Torquedork]

My father owns a 1973 AMC Javelin AMX. It has the tic-tach dash and Pierre Cardon interior. This is the next car on my build list for this winter. I feel I owe it to my father and I know with out my help, I doubt he will ever get it done. So far he has built a motor for it, 401 with a high rise intake and demon carb. (this is about all that I know on the engine though I do know much more was done to it. He has allot of time and research into the build)

This car is my main reason for joining the site. This winter we hope to clean it up. I'd like to make the bumpers fit as they should, they may get re-chromed or maybe painted. Something has to be done with the drip rails as they stick out waaaay too far. Would like to see it on a set of 17 inch rims. Something more modern but still with a decent sidewall as this is what my father likes. Currently the car is very rust free and very straight, the color is an orangish red with the white AMX "T" on the hood. Dad wants the same red as my Talon (Penske Dodge Viper Red) and a black AMX "T".

Any other AMX owners on here? Anyone with some more info on pro-touring these?

Brian,

Here's my Bronze '71 AMX but check out the link below of my friend's Pewter '73 AMX


My friend just joined and posted photos of his '73 AMX he just finished. This will give you some ideas!

Here's the link: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72078

[jackfrost]

welcome Brian, I've got an 86 Cutlass (442) and a 74 AMX. :razz:

nice fabrication on the Talon. if you hadn't told me, I'm not sure I'd have noticed the widebody.

[cheapthrillz]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

I have to admit.... that is the best looking Talon I have ever seen lol

[archertsi]

Hey thanks to everyone. Wow, what a friendly forum! Im really wasn't sure how popular the Talon would be on here since it's not "pro-touring" but I figured it was worth a shot since the modifications (both body and engine) were something I consider "extreme".

Also, thanks for all the Javelin help. I still have allot to decide on and google images only gave me so much. But I have my own ideas, dont want to only copy others. Thinking about re-making the rear spoiler out of steel and welding it on, changing the aero-dynamics of it a tad. Also making a steel lower chin for the front with the "splitter" welded to it also. Maybe a spot for fog lights. Maybe doing a hide-away-headlight and blinker billet grill.

[archertsi]

Brian,

I can get you information and ideas on the Javelin/AMX and say Hi to Tommy Archer for me!

Back in the '90's, I did an article on Tommy and Bobby for Muscle Mustangs on their Trans Am Racing and it was called "Family Affair". I photographed them at Road America.

I have a '71 AMX that is a blend of quiet blend of Resto/Mod and Pro/Touring that is lowered with 16 x 8 Halibrand 5 spokes, KYB's custom rate springs, sway bars, 12.7:1 quick ratio steering gear and so on. I have a friend who just finished a beautiful '73 AMX with 17 inch Minilites and goes beyond what I did. I will get him to join and post photos.

Hope all is well with Tommy AND Bobby.

I've seen the article and remember the cars! Tommy and Bobby are actually my mothers cousins so I have followed them since I was little. For the most part they are retired now though Tommy still drives when he can be paid to.

What did you use to lower your Javelin? Coilovers? Still trying to figure out suspension for the car.

[archertsi]

Brian,

Here's my Bronze '71 AMX but check out the link below of my friend's Pewter '73 AMX


My friend just joined and posted photos of his '73 AMX he just finished. This will give you some ideas!

Here's the link: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72078

Both AMAZING! That is the first time I have seen an actual pro-street style Javelin.

The red stripe on the bottom chrome trim piece looks great. I think I will keep that in mind. Obviously there is much more to the car, but I like the subtle things.

[archertsi]

In order to build my suspension jig, I need to know the height of the frame from the ground at each of the LCA mounting points. Having a hard time finding that information whether it's for a stock SRT-10 or something more race-bred. Obviously I don't want to mess up the geometry so I want to get the frame to ground measurements correct when I build the jig.

I also understand (heard) there exists a factory Viper chassis jig with different suspension pick-ups, one is stock and one is a race setup I think. Since my car will mostly be street driven I don't see a need to change from factory geometry unless it is bad and can be better optimized.



Next time I have an SRT or ACR on the alignment rack I can measure those for you. Obviously it's going to depend on if the car is lowered or not but what I think you are searching for is the angle of the rear mount VS the front one in relation to the frame. The only thing I wouldnt know is if there is any caster built into the car but if you have those frame pieces, you should be able to get the upper correct in relation to the lower.

A true shop manual would help you in more then one way. Our manuals have all of the frame measurements in them. I know because we have fixed so many bent track cars.

Break downs of the diff should be in there also or I mat be able to get ahold of them for you. (photo copy or something)

You "should" be able to get them through your local Dodge dealer.

As far as a "race jig", never heard of it unless you are thinking of the true Oreca GTS-R's. Even the Viper Competition Coupes are based off of an SRT frame and the cage etc added on to them.

[asifnyc]

hey Archertsi, since you mentioned a billet grille for the Javelin thought I'd post a link to my blog. sounds like you are contemplating something a bit more ambitious but I had a custom grille waterjet cut out of aluminum for my '73 Javelin. Doesn't hide the headlights but does hide the turn signals. also had a custom "AMX" badge cut...

http://asifnyc.com/?p=487

[Torquedork]

I've seen the article and remember the cars! Tommy and Bobby are actually my mothers cousins so I have followed them since I was little. For the most part they are retired now though Tommy still drives when he can be paid to.

What did you use to lower your Javelin? Coilovers? Still trying to figure out suspension for the car.

On my car I ordered custom springs from Eaton/Detroit Spring. They made them to lower me where I wanted to be. The Pewter '73 has coilovers in front.

There are a couple of other photos of my car here including a shot from 1995 at Brainerd Intl Raceway doing 120 MPH in Turn One back when my car was stock: https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72117

Also, here are a couple of links to slide shows on my car and the silver car I did. Both are set to the Mission Impossible Theme.

Silvery '73 AMX: http://www.photodex.com/share/cammy/p9xm8mg4

My Car: http://www.photodex.com/share/cammy/xkpg8mg4

[wellis77]

Next time I have an SRT or ACR on the alignment rack I can measure those for you. Obviously it's going to depend on if the car is lowered or not but what I think you are searching for is the angle of the rear mount VS the front one in relation to the frame. The only thing I wouldnt know is if there is any caster built into the car but if you have those frame pieces, you should be able to get the upper correct in relation to the lower.

A true shop manual would help you in more then one way. Our manuals have all of the frame measurements in them. I know because we have fixed so many bent track cars.

Break downs of the diff should be in there also or I mat be able to get ahold of them for you. (photo copy or something)

You "should" be able to get them through your local Dodge dealer.

As far as a "race jig", never heard of it unless you are thinking of the true Oreca GTS-R's. Even the Viper Competition Coupes are based off of an SRT frame and the cage etc added on to them.

Thanks for the info Brian. I'll keep my eyes out for a shop manual. I know they come up on ebay quite a bit so I'll check there. I've been hesitant to pick up a set because I'm not quite sure what was in them but it sounds like they could be of help.

As for the measurements, with the frame cuts I should have the angles of the control arms. What I'm going to do for building my suspension jig is assemble the suspension components on each frame cut, add the brake rotors and wheels/tires in order to simulate the Viper setup. Only thing I don't know in doing so is how high off the ground and how parallel (or lack thereof) to set the frame in order to get the most effective geometry from the factory pick-ups. If the frame is too high or low, it could alter the geometry. So all I "think" I need is frame height from the ground at the control arm mounts and I should be good. I've heard 4"-5" but I would rather not guess. If that info is in the manual, I'll be good when I get a set. If not, your measurements when you get one on the rack would be a huge help. Thanks Brian.