C4 corvette susension in a el camino / gto

[taz]

The front suspension i dont think will be a problem i will build a subframe and graft it to the original frame . I am not made of money so i will do this myself . But i also want to do a dana 44 c4 corvette rear suspension . Has anyone done this I have done subframes on 50s pickups and that but its always good to hear from someone that has done this before . The car is called halfbreed i originally was going to do a torque arm suspension but found the price of the c4 vette stuff very reasonable . Any ideas or input would be appreciated .
Tim

[MonzaRacer]

I believe if you chat with Jim Neilson , do a search for the Cormaro. I honestly, unless the parts are really more expensive look more at the C5/C6 parts. And honestly I dont think you will gain too much by major grafting in the front as there are a lot of super reasonable parts and adapting C5/C6 brakes are SO MUCH BETTER and Kore 3 has the adapters.
Now using Corvette in the rear MIGHT be better but honestly unless your looking for an IRS, Honestly take a look at the 89 up Thunderbird/Cougar IRS its wider and the 8.8 can be beefed up more than the 44. And you can adapt in Vette style spindles/hubs but the width is better.
I had plans to install one in my 86 Ranger but ended up totaling it.
And the tech leap from C4 to C5/C6 is so dramatic. Speedtech now owns ATS and the ATS spindle which can be had for Abodies and fix most of the issues, and a Lee steering box and say Ridetech Shock waves would make as good if not better handling with less work.
The rear properly done, well dont forget you dealing with a heavier car with different loading cycles.
Do a lot more research before cutting and welding.

[taz]

Thanks for your input just a c5/c6 brake upgrade costs more than the entire front suspension . If you factor in the cost of spindles control arms and so you could easily have 3,000 plus into front suspension and brakes . The c4 vette suspension with 13 inch brakes complete costs from 300 to 600 dollars complete with aluminum cotrol arms and rack and pinion it just makes financial sense . Get the most bang for the buck . I was looking at the cobra irs hadnt thought about the tbird .
Nice monza i have had a few of those and several v8 vegas .

[Marcus SC&C]

If it was easy everyone would do it. Your biggest issue is that the C4 is front mid engine. If you want to have steering, you`ll have to set the motor back about 4" through the firewall. Add to that the fact that C4 front suspension is only okay and the rear suspension isn`t very good at all and the juice isn`t worth all the squeezing even at that price point. To say nothing of the fact that those components were designed for a lighter car with much different balance. Its much harder (and more expensive!) than you`d think to make it all actually work worth a darn. I`m just sayin.... Mark SC&C

[taz]

1988 Corvette

Wheelbase: 96.2"Track: 59.6" Front / 60.4" RearHeight: 46.7" CoupeLength: 176.5"Width: 71"Curb Weight: 3,245 lbs.
CoupeTire Size: 255/50VR16Plant: Bowling Green
teresting El Camino Facts


The El Camino is often thought of as being light in the rear end. This is not necessarily true. The El Camino has a front/rear weight distribution similar to other V8 front-engined, rear-wheel-drive coupes of the era. For 1964-1967, the El Camino has a slightly heavier forward bias than a comparably equipped Chevelle coupe. However, for 1968-1972, the El Camino actually has a better weight distribution than a comparably equipped Chevelle coupe ! For example, Chevrolet's published vehicle weights for a 1968 V8 Malibu 2-door coupe (with no options) are 1810 lbs front and 1395 lbs rear (3205 total). That equates to 56.5% of the vehicle's weight resting on the front tires. A comparably equipped 1968 V8 Custom El Camino is listed at 1800 lbs front and 1410 rear (3210 total). That equates to 56.1% of the vehicle's weight up front with a wheelbase of 115inches .

Now let me get this straight i put the crossmember from the vette in the similar location as old crossmember to align everything or build a new crossmember i will have to set the engine back 4 inches you know the rack and pinion is front mount right? How about a ls2 front sump gto oil pan . I have a 1988 vette in my stall now and fail to see where the problem is . Here is a pic of a 57 chevy and there are countless other c4 conversions .And of course it wont be easy but its more fun than spending my kids college fund and bolting on parts .
I am getting suspension soon will post pics as . I am not a bolt on and say i built it kind of guy somebody else built the part and they just bolted it on sounds like a kit car to me .

[cobraguy65]

I had no trouble fitting my Ls1. Steering rack in the original corvette position. Centerline of the rack is behind the harmonic balancer. I did rotate the slave cylinder portion of the rack to clock the hydraulic lines forward (instead of straight up). Didn't have to, just wanted the engine a little lower.

[Marcus SC&C]

Nice trivia, I know, I`ve had 2 El Caminos myself and we`ve been working with C4,5,6 suspension for many years. We did the first C5 front suspension conversion package for G bodys about 10 years ago, known as G5. Your biggest issue is the height of the rack. It goes in front of the harmonic balancer on the C4 because the engine is mounted behind the centerline of the front wheels (front MID engine). The El Camino engine sticks well in front of that line. That`s why you either need to set the motor way back or modify the spindles, fab new steering arms, source a new narrower rack and mount it much lower to clear the motor and frame. Look at a Wayne Due 1st Gen Camaro C4 subframe and you`ll see what I mean. If you`re up to that go for it, it would be a really slick deal when it`s done. Mark SC&C

PS. CG65, that`s cool. the OP didn`t mention anything about an LS motor, that may make a big difference. Was your conversion in a G body also?

[cobraguy65]

PS. CG65, that`s cool. the OP didn`t mention anything about an LS motor, that may make a big difference. Was your conversion in a G body also?

Sorry I didnt mension what car. Its a '67 Firebird. Link to the build thread is in my sig. You're right LS engine could make a difference. I've had the engine and trans in and out a couple times. I'll get some pics next time its in. thanks

[taz]

I have so far 5.3 and 4l60e sitting here wating for its new home . On a side note i will be going through the 5.3 what about bore to a 5.7 . I already can hear it why didnt you get a 6.0 . I got the 5.3 and trans for 300$ .

[regalman4925]

there was a guy on gbodyforum.com selling a elcamino frame with full c4 suspension on it for like 1500 bucks minus the rear end. i thought about getting it but its not the direction i am going on my car as of now.

edit: never mind, i was thinking it was a newer elk. sorry

[MonzaRacer]

Honestly the price point to performance bang per buck SUCKS with using C4. This is one thing that cut down Wayne Due.
Honestly ATS/Speedtech spindles SPC upper and lower control arms and Lee Performance steering box. Then pic out spring company, if coils talk to SC&C, ask for Marcus.
As for the rear suspension, are you going for bling or just want it "to handle like a Vette"?
In back I would go with stock style suspension, with control arms using Johnny Joints. Add in Air Ride, even if you use CoolRide or Coil Ride(so you can upgrade to ShockWaves later) or Blackwaves for price.
You dont need solenoids as long as you good with installing stainless tubing. I just helped a guy run all stainless tubing for his AirRide cause my hydraulic flaring tool helps. VERY clean and tucked away. his dash was modded and he has 2 LCD strips that read air pressures. Very stealth. We used to have it set up with old NOS solenoids but 3 shorted out(he used to drag race) so he now has paddle switches. And his original plan was Corvette C4 then rethought and havnt went back on his joy of taking a plunge.
He used C6 brakes with Kore 3 adapters and got brakes from Ebay cheap.
And C5/C6 are inherently MUCH better brakes. His point was previous car had C4 and he spent 4 times as much to upkeep them over the 5th/6th gen stuff, and pad selection is of the hook for C5/C6, his big splurge was Cryo treated rotors, they seem to live forever.

[Samckitt]

I have heard it from a couple places now that to use the C6 vette front suspension in a G body that I would have to move the motor back 3 or 4 inches. Looking at this front frame clip for an early 80s camaro:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
That rack is tucked up there nice & close to the engine crossmember. From memory, this doesn't look that much different than the front of a G body.

EDIT: This isn't using the Vette upper and lower A arms. I take it that makes a difference.

EDIT AGAIN: Here is a Morrison frame for a camaro, with the Vette A arms.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/CamaroClip2009a-1.png

[cobraguy65]

I'm only guessing, but maybe with the bolt on steering arm they were able to lower the steering rack. machine a new arm to lower the tie rod. just a thought.

[silver69camaro]

Scot, the engine placement is radically different between a F-body and G-body of the same years. The G-body has the engine pushed far forward, and the oil pan (not the balancer!) ends up hitting the rack. GM didn't put the engine in the same place relative to front spindle C/L in all their cars.

At the very least you will have to make a new steering arm and find a narrower rack. Even then it's a tough fit, it took me several days to come up with something that packaged well and performed to my expectations.

[Samckitt]

I guess I am going by the picture of the DSE clip (first image), & it looks like the rack sets at the same level as the crossmember. So if the engine oil pan clears the crossmember, it would clear the rack as well.

[silver69camaro]

I guess I made the assumption you are not planning on using a different steering arm on the knuckle. But you are correct on DSE's deal. Just keep in mind that going from the stock rack position to DSE's or our position takes significant work.