Thinking about going with this top end kit for my 302. [Archive]

Mr. Din

08-20-2010, 06:34 AM

What do you guys thnk?>

http://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/2091/10002/-1

will be going into my 65 mustang coupe. With 302. Would prob do a stroker kit later to 347. Would this kit still work if i went with the 347 stroker later? Im fairly new to all this engine stuff and trying to piece together parts is confusing so thats why i decided to maybe go with the top end kit to make things easier. Thanks for any advice.

MSC81

08-23-2010, 05:12 PM

I have this kit only for my 350 Chevy and I love it. I can't say for sure that this set up will work if you decide to stroke it later on, but I don't know why it wouldn't because stroking will just be more cubic inches and might require a bigger carb. Maybe someone will chime in with a definitive answer or you can call the good people at Edelbrock. The only issue I've encountered was low vaccum from the cam so my brakes needed some help, but that's easily resolved. I would recommend though that you scrap the gaskets that come with the kit and spring for some nicer fel-pros, they'll last longer and you wont have to worry about annoying leaks.

Good luck to you.

Pro Stock

08-26-2010, 09:52 PM

What's your budget ?, their are better heads on the market than these, especially when you move up to your 347, if your cylinder heads are sized to work with the 302 they will be wrong for the bigger engine, it would be more cost efficiant to have a head that is a little to big on the 302 and just right on the 347, we have a 347 with Dart heads that makes 400hp on our dyno with a mild hydraulic cam and a 650 Demon carb.

Dale

Mr. Din

08-27-2010, 04:09 AM

My budget for intake, heads , carb and cam are around 2000$ If anyone can suggest me a good set of heads , carb , intake , cam for around that budget that would be great!

Bryce

08-27-2010, 06:48 AM

AFR 185 maybe a 205. ($1300)

victor Jr manifold ($300)

carb, I like the speed demon from barry grant others have had issues. But any 650-750 cfm holley would be a good choice.

The cam is a personal choice for your driving style, its the brain of the engine. But what max lift can you go to with the current pistons? a 500 lift cam would be nice and around 224-230 duration at .050" lift. -

Mr. Din

08-27-2010, 07:12 AM

heads..

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFR-1492/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFR-1388/

intake..

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-2921/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-29211/

?

thanks for any info you have been giving me. Helps me out im new to building engine performance.

Pro Stock

08-27-2010, 12:50 PM

Edelbrock Performer RPM, dual plane, good torque and peak power. You wil be real happy with this combo.

Dart FORD 195cc 20° Aluminum Cylinder Head

Pro Stock

08-27-2010, 01:29 PM

Same as above but Air gap style.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Ford 260-289-302 V8
RPM AIR-GAP 302 (1500-6500 rpm)
Designed for street 289-302 c.i.d. Ford V8s, the RPM Air-Gap incorporates the same race-winning technology that's been used on our Victor Series competition intakes for years. The air-gap design features an open air space that separates the runners from the hot engine oil resulting in a cooler, denser charge for more power. Includes nitrous bosses. No provision for exhaust heated chokes and no exhaust crossover. Aftermarket 4-bbl carbs are not compatible with Ford Auto Overdrive Transmission (AOD) unless used with Lokar bracket SRK-4000, for more info call (865) 966-2269 or go to www.lokar.com (http://www.lokar.com/). Available with standard finish or new EnduraShine finish for a look you've go to see to belive, see Optional Finishes (http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_new/mc/manifolds/manifolds_main.shtml.shtml). https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

BG Fuel Systems: www.barrygrant.com

Pro Stock

08-29-2010, 10:10 AM

Our 347ci with above package, no porting on heads or manifold, 650 demon, 425.3 ft. pd. tourqe @ 3900 rpm, tourque is over 400 f p from 3200 to 4800 rpm, 395.9 hp @ 5600 rpm, power is over 390 from 5300 to5900 rpm, all numbers are with a fairly mild hyd. cam

Dale

Mr. Din

08-29-2010, 06:09 PM

thanks..

could you tell me the difference in these two ?

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DRT-13211113

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DRT-13211112

Pro Stock

08-30-2010, 08:04 AM

The difference between the heads is that the less expensive head comes with a 1.250" single valve spring and the other one comes with a 1.437" double valve spring, this series of head comes with a 1.550" and I think a 1.625" also, the next step up for this head is a CNC ported version but it is moving out of your budget at $1100+.

Dale

Mr. Din

08-30-2010, 08:08 AM

so I should be ok with either one of those?

rrunner68

08-30-2010, 12:32 PM

Ummm...the most important question that I have seen no one ask. What its your current compression ratio, and what will it be with any of these? A wicked cam and these heads won't be worth a hill of beans if his slugs are .200 down in the hole.

Pro Stock

08-30-2010, 01:08 PM

so I should be ok with either one of those?
You probably should go with the bigger spring heads, that way you will have a head that will be able to handle a bigger cam at a later date. I didn't get into compression with you because that wasn't your question and I wanted to stay on point, but since it has been brought up here is my answer, with most street 302's with that size chamber will have to have the compression ratio figured out based on what piston that you use, if it's a flat top piston within .010 of the deck it will be hard to be much over 10.0:1 which will be fine untill you build the big engine, everything else remaining the same the compression ratio increases with cubic inches

Dale

Mr. Din

08-30-2010, 03:24 PM

hmm.. well the guy helped me pull the engine out and we took it a part. He says it has flat top pistons. The previous owner of the car said he had the engine rebuilt 8k miles ago with just a factory rebuilt. The guy that help took apart the engine says the engine is bored .40 over? not really sure what that means if it means anything or will effect in me getting those dart heads.

We arent engine experts, he knows little about engines. I just want to do research so I can have some kind of clue of what is going on when puting this engine back together and what to put on it.

I thank everyone for the help, it really helps. Picking all these parts gets complicated.

Pro Stock

08-30-2010, 05:49 PM

The .040 overbore won't change anything except your cubic inches which will be 307.65ci, this will not effect your choice on your cylinder head choice. Not knowing how far your piston is in the hole and head gasket thickness I used some common numbers and came up with about 10.00:1 compression, if you were to have the heads surfaced .030 it would raise the compression to about 10.5:1, the heads on the 347 would be at 11.14:1 surfaced .030 and 10.5:1 stock, these compression numbers are probably accurate to plus or minus .5 of a ratio, in case I've just confused you, what I'm saying is, go for it.

Dale

Mr. Din

08-30-2010, 06:53 PM

Thanks Mr. Dale for your input.. I will order a set soon. Should I cam now since the engine is out and apart ?

CarPlayLB

08-30-2010, 07:26 PM

Thanks Mr. Dale for your input.. I will order a set soon. Should I cam now since the engine is out and apart ?
YES...cam now...it is a PITA when it's in the car!

Pro Stock

08-30-2010, 07:43 PM

YES...cam now...it is a PITA when it's in the car!
I agree about the cam, I would recommend www.bulletcams.com (http://www.bulletcams.com)
Ask for John Partrige and give him your combo and tell him what you are looking for as far as power and driveability, he is a friend of mine so tell him that Dale sent you and you don't need to call me mister.

Dale

Mr. Din

08-31-2010, 04:16 AM

sounds good. ill give them a call after i order the heads, intake and carb. thanks again!

rrunner68

08-31-2010, 05:40 AM

Mr. Din

08-31-2010, 06:04 AM

too late now i belive?? the pistons and crank are out of the block..

rrunner68

08-31-2010, 06:51 AM

Might want to throw the crank and a piston in, just to be sure. If you get a wicked cam and heads and have 7.5:1 compression, you're not going to be a happy camper.

Mr. Din

08-31-2010, 06:54 AM

ok so to get compression ratio, i need to install the crank back , one piston. Turn it to TDC then measure how far down the hole the top of the piston is ?

Bryce

08-31-2010, 07:22 AM

compression ratio is the ratio between cylinder volume with piston at BDC and TDC. this includes the combustion chamber size.

The higher up the piston is at TDC the smaller the 'open' volume. This will yield a larger compression ratio. If you want i can create an excel spreadsheet that will include the calculations, you just need plug in all your measurments. These calculators are online as well.

John Wright

08-31-2010, 07:56 AM

He needs to know how far in the hole the piston is at TDC and then he can start pluggin in numbers for the valve reliefs and cc of the heads, gasket thickness, ect.....

Bryce

08-31-2010, 08:02 AM

Thanks for clarifying John, I was building on what Dan was saying. So Mr. Din knows what the next step is.

Pro Stock

08-31-2010, 10:58 AM

www.muller.net/sonny/crx/compression (http://www.muller.net/sonny/crx/compression)

Dale

Pro Stock

08-31-2010, 11:01 AM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGuOMItsCXk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGuOMItsCXk)

If you want more I'll get it for you.

Dale

Mr. Din

08-31-2010, 08:44 PM

www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGuOMItsCXk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGuOMItsCXk)

If you want more I'll get it for you.

Dale

oh wow, that just got complicated. i was terrible at math.

Pro Stock

09-01-2010, 07:17 AM

That's why I didn't bring a lot of this up, first of all you just wanted to know a good top end combo and that you and your friend were just now learning all of this stuff, bottom line is that odds are you will end up with a little more compression than you currently have no matter how far your piston is in the hole, deck height and compression is something that you and your buddy can address as you gain in your skill level, just keep on asking questions and reading tech articles and it will come to you, I think that it is great that you guys are willing to take this on yourselves and not have anyone else do it for you.

Good luck and pm me anytime you need help.......Dale

BTW, where are you located?

Mr. Din

09-01-2010, 08:47 AM

Thanks. You've been a big help. I prob have will have 100000 more questions, this site has been one of the most helpful ones so far.

I am in Houston Texas.

John Wright

09-01-2010, 09:13 AM

You don't have to be as exact in figuring the CR as in the vid above unless you are running the combination on the very ragged edge and squeezing every available HP out of it.

You can estimate several of these factors, (still have to do the math) and come up with an approximate CR that won't be too far off. CC'ing the head is still something that should be done(heads vary quite a bit in the as cast condition), piston mfg's have figures to use for the configuration of the top of the piston(including pin location to help you estimate how far down in the hole you will be), gasket mfgs have figures for the crushed gasket height, and if you are using a stock stroke crank you can look up that figure......Still have to run through the numbers on a calculator, but you can come up with an approximate CR value that will be close enough for a mild N/A engine.

HOWEVER, When you start using power adders(NO2, super charging, turbo, ect)....then you want to get as exact as you can so that you can make sure the engine will live a long and happy life.