Twin Turbo Ls3

[v502]

Doing a twin turbo setup this winter :smoke:
Its Going to be on my 79 c10 ls3 daily driven so am targeting for 600rwhp for now and somewhere around 700rwhp to 900rwhp in the future when i get LSX 376 9.1 cr. :fingersx:



Am at research and planing phase.
Open for suggestions on everything even on the stuff i listed.
No idea on what boost controller to get.



What i came Up with:

1. Precision Turbo Billet BB x2
6262 or 6265 T4 A/R 0.68 V-Band ( Haven't made my mind yet )

2. Hks SSQV Blow Off Valve x2

3. Tial MV-R Waste-gates x2

4. Twin inter-coolers


Thanks
Ray

[RSX302]

I looked at the LSX376, but passed on it. I figured with the LS3 heads and cam it comes with, limits its output for $6K. You would need to change the cam and do head work if you want to up it above 700hp flywheel. Then I wondered about the GM powdered metal rods used. pt#12607475. Then I worried about the LS3 heads under 800hp boost. Then I figured, do I really need an LSX block for 800hp? Then changing the cam would void warranty because GM probably knows it shouldn't go higher in HP..

SO! I just ordered an LQ9 370cu/in short block from Texas Speed.. $3200

I'm thinking I will put on a set of AFR215 heads and a cam that works nice for the street--easy 800hp with no questions about strength. This is with 10psig boost and 8.7:1cr non intercooled

[v502]

I looked at the LSX376, but passed on it. I figured with the LS3 heads and cam it comes with, limits its output for $6K. You would need to change the cam and do head work if you want to up it above 700hp flywheel. Then I wondered about the GM powdered metal rods used. pt#12607475. Then I worried about the LS3 heads under 800hp boost. Then I figured, do I really need an LSX block for 800hp? Then changing the cam would void warranty because GM probably knows it shouldn't go higher in HP..

SO! I just ordered an LQ9 370cu/in short block from Texas Speed.. $3200

I'm thinking I will put on a set of AFR215 heads and a cam that works nice for the street--easy 800hp with no questions about strength. This is with 10psig boost and 8.7:1cr non intercooled


I agree with you on powdered metal rods they sound suspicious and with my style of driving i don't think it will last.


You can call me the Terminator when it comes with driving my cars.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xBmLRN4F0Q&feature=search

I might rebuild my engine locally cause we got a great shop near by with proven engines so until then i be driving with stock block.

[Memphis]

When I saw your sig that video popped into my head, one of my favs :).

[John Wright]

Watched the vid....do you have a limiter? LOL....lifting your foot every few seconds doesn't count. Poor engine was screaming.....love the title/comment " reliablity testing "

[v502]

Glad you like it


When I saw your sig that vide popped into my head, one of my favs :).



Watched the vid....do you have a limiter? LOL....lifting your foot every few seconds doesn't count. Poor engine was screaming.....love the title/comment " reliablity testing "

Yeah i got a rev limiter. It was a reliability testing i was just checking for weak links :fingersx:

Ended up with 4 things:

1. Fuel leak (Loose fitting)
2. Oil Leak (Oil cooler lines)
3. Blown shocks ( In process )
4. Need rear tires :)

[PhillipM]

I looked at the LSX376, but passed on it. I figured with the LS3 heads and cam it comes with, limits its output for $6K. You would need to change the cam and do head work if you want to up it above 700hp flywheel. Then I wondered about the GM powdered metal rods used. pt#12607475. Then I worried about the LS3 heads under 800hp boost. Then I figured, do I really need an LSX block for 800hp? Then changing the cam would void warranty because GM probably knows it shouldn't go higher in HP..

SO! I just ordered an LQ9 370cu/in short block from Texas Speed.. $3200

I'm thinking I will put on a set of AFR215 heads and a cam that works nice for the street--easy 800hp with no questions about strength. This is with 10psig boost and 8.7:1cr non intercooled

What all was included for $3200? Shipped?

[nicks67camaro]

I am curious on this short block as well. sounds like a nice foundation for supercharged application as well.

[RSX302]

What all was included for $3200? Shipped?

3200 is less shipping and crate. Can't get around that unless you live next to the engine shop. I added extras below that increased the price a little. Should get this week..


GM 6.0L Cast-Iron Engine Block 699.00
LS1Crank GM LS1 Crankshaft, 3.622 Stroke 499.99
Callies Comp Star LS1/LS2 Connecting Rods, Set of 8 599.99
Wiseco Forged Piston Set: 4.030" Bore x 3.622" Stroke x
6.125" Rod Length; 1.304" CD, -25cc Dish - Includes GFX
Ring Set, Steel Top Ring/Napier 2nd 809.99
Camshaft Bearing Set for LS2 and 2nd Gen LS1 Engine Block 33.99
Clevite LS1 H Rod Bearing, Per Bearing 71.92
Clevite H Main Bearing Set, For LS1 Stroker Applications 106.99
25-mach Full Block Work and Preparation: Vat Block, Line Bore, Install
New Cam Bearings, Bore/Hone with Torque Plate, Balance
Rotating Assy., Line Hone 875.00
Labor Assemble Short-Block 500.00
ARP Main Stud Kit for LS1/LS6-Based Engines 188.99
GM LS1 Oil Galley Core Plug 3.94
GM Engine Block Small Coolant Plug, LSx-Based Engines 20.97
GM LS1 Large Coolant Plug 7.99
GM Bolt for LS1/LS2 Side Main Cap and LS2 Rear Cover 23.90
GM LS1 Oil Restrictor 5.99
Joe Gibbs Break-In Oil - 89.88
DSC Short-Block Discount -1,351.53

SHIPPING INFO:
Engine Cradle for Engine Crate 35.00
Engine Crate for Short-Block Engine Assembly 140.00
Shipping via Truck Freight - TO BE DETERMINED 341.66


Added extras:
Piston Ceramic Coating 375.00
Comp Cams Camshaft 224/230, .581/.588, 114 LSA, 112 ICL 374.99
In Motion LS1 Double Roller Timing Set w/ Torrington Bearing 99.99
ARP LS1/LS2/LS6 Camshaft Bolt Kit 6.29
GM Camshaft Retainer Plate 18.99
GM Cam Retainer Plate Bolt 13.56
Labor Install Camshaft 75.00

[RSX302]

I'm also looking at a par of these water-air intercoolers for a nice clean compact look..What do ya think? $170ea
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/intercooler_type20_picture-1.jpg

[PhillipM]

How complicated is an air-water system? Do you have to cool the water off with ice or can it run on its own much like a standard cooling system?

[John Wright]

How complicated is an air-water system? Do you have to cool the water off with ice or can it run on its own much like a standard cooling system?...and do they have a pump to circulate the water?

[exwestracer]

How complicated is an air-water system? Do you have to cool the water off with ice or can it run on its own much like a standard cooling system?
Either way. Most drag only units are plumbed into a separate ice water reservoir (Coleman cooler) and use a circulating pump. They can also be plumbed into the cooling system, BUT this is obviously less effective cooling, and you will need to look at radiator size because you are going to need a LOT more heat rejection to keep everything cool.

(Sorry, misread your post slightly... You are wanting to use a separate water radiator cooling system without a reservoir? Yes, it will work, but what is really the point? You will need a radiator for the intercooler system, which negates the space advantage of the water/air units....might as well just go air/air and eliminate the middleman.)

[RSX302]

How complicated is an air-water system? Do you have to cool the water off with ice or can it run on its own much like a standard cooling system?

How complicated? I guess it depends on the space available. Air/Air would be less if you don't need to hack/modify your front end to make it work.

I like how compact and efficient the water/air coolers are. (e.g.;ZR1) I was thinking of putting a small water tank and pump in the trunk and running the lines to the front. Heat exchanger looks kinda like an A/C condenser if you place in front of the radiator. I think you can run a smaller coil with a 10" fan anywhere you can find space under the car?

I was also thinking--with the turbos, you don't need to have the pump running all the time while cruising. For the street, use a boost switch to turn on the pump (adj time delay off) and for the track use an override switch (Ice in the tank for a colder charge on dragstrip days)

[exwestracer]

If you want the same amount of temp differential, you need the same amount of heat exchange. If you're doing water/air with a radiator, the water is just a transfer medium; it does NOT improve the cooling efficiency of the overall system (compressor outlet temp vs. intercooler outlet temp). It can improve the packaging in the car, but a smaller radiator works the same way as it does with the engine...it won't remove as much heat.

Water/air with a chilled water reservoir is a whole different story...

[DJW32]

Ron,
What CFM are you looking at? Are you looking for the 700 CFM each intercoolers?


I'm also looking at a par of these water-air intercoolers for a nice clean compact look..What do ya think? $170ea
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/10/intercooler_type20_picture-1.jpg

[RSX302]

If you want the same amount of temp differential, you need the same amount of heat exchange. If you're doing water/air with a radiator, the water is just a transfer medium; it does NOT improve the cooling efficiency of the overall system (compressor outlet temp vs. intercooler outlet temp). It can improve the packaging in the car, but a smaller radiator works the same way as it does with the engine...it won't remove as much heat.

Water/air with a chilled water reservoir is a whole different story...

I'm all ears (ok eye's..LOL) and do appriciate your input...
I know that water is a better heat transfer medium than air(hence smaller turbo intercooler).
I agree that once you get the heat into the water, you now need to pull it back out using air (1:1 heat transfer with a bigger radiator)

I haven't done the math but most radiators I've seen don't use the same size as an air/air intercooler.

Also max 1:1 heat transfer would be based on 100% throttle all the time at max boost. I don't know too many that would plant the throttle with 800+hp 100% of the time? Road racing on the big track at Willow I might see full throttle on the front/back striaghts for less than 10sec? 145mph

example: 600-1200hp Radiator (http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=217&products_id=1002&osCsid=113a64e6122834c56fba70d1dc816fc2)

[RSX302]

Ron,
What CFM are you looking at? Are you looking for the 700 CFM each intercoolers?

I think my new set-up will be around 750-800hp. (~800 is the limit of my turbos) 800 = 1040cfm so I was wondering about the 450cfm units (pictured) x 2 to make up 900cfm? Too small? They use the 2.5" in/out which is the same size as my Banks intake box. My Turbo outlets are only 2" (1.60" I.D)

They claim up to 450cfm at .1 psi drop.. That pressure is very low..could I get 500-550 out of them with less than .5-1 psi? These units are only 13"x4"x3.5"

[RSX302]

Also I should apologize; this should probably have gone into another thread. Didn't mean to change the topic.

[DJW32]

Ron,

I started a new thread. Take a look at Inter-cooler flow thread.

[exwestracer]

I'm all ears (ok eye's..LOL) and do appriciate your input...
I know that water is a better heat transfer medium than air(hence smaller turbo intercooler).
I agree that once you get the heat into the water, you now need to pull it back out using air (1:1 heat transfer with a bigger radiator)

I haven't done the math but most radiators I've seen don't use the same size as an air/air intercooler.

Also max 1:1 heat transfer would be based on 100% throttle all the time at max boost. I don't know too many that would plant the throttle with 800+hp 100% of the time? Road racing on the big track at Willow I might see full throttle on the front/back striaghts for less than 10sec? 145mph

example: 600-1200hp Radiator (http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=217&products_id=1002&osCsid=113a64e6122834c56fba70d1dc816fc2)

Good info here: http://www.bellintercoolers.com/pages/techFAQ.html#FAQ_5

Of particular interest is the last half of FAQ #5... They sell both, so I figure that info is about as un-biased as you can get... My comments were based on a direct comparison of inlet charge temperatures vs heat radiating areas. Obviouly, each type has it's place.