Expensive '69 Camaro at 285,000.00

[ProjectSideOiler]

I believe Fesler is a member here and nice car but 285,000.00????

It may have cost big bucks to build but in today's resale good luck!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1969-Chevy-Camaro-DRACO-Fesler-Built-full-custom-car-/120608686703?pt=US_Cars_Trucks#ht_594wt_1165

I wish them well on selling it but 1/2 that would be big bucks.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Hmmmm...

[hifi875]

awesome

[twosaturns]

what does this mean, exactly???

"This is not a knock off car its all original and its all custom with a stock look".

it's another of those out-of-this-world pro-built '69 camaros. I guess if you've got the coin and you're into that sort of thing...

[coolwelder62]

My question is, WHY does it cost over $300.000.00 to build a car this nice.How many hour's are in this build.

[ProjectSideOiler]

My question is, WHY does it cost over $300.000.00 to build a car this nice.How many hour's are in this build.


That would be like spending 100,000.00 in parts/car and 5000 hours labor on a good day. I just do not see it. A very very nice car can be built for 150k. If someone actually forked out 300k to build this car they are going to be pretty surprised with the return... Nothing on the build made me go wow. (other than the price)

I was just checking out the droop in the dash pad, does not fit a 300k build.

[MrQuick]

don't worry someone will buy it.


vince

[Matt@BOS]

That would be like spending 100,000.00 in parts/car and 5000 hours labor on a good day. I just do not see it. A very very nice car can be built for 150k. If someone actually forked out 300k to build this car they are going to be pretty surprised with the return... Nothing on the build made me go wow. (other than the price)

I was just checking out the droop in the dash pad, does not fit a 300k build.

Yeah, there are a couple things that I wouldn't want on a 300K car like bumper bolts when everything else is shaved, or a droopy dash pad but hey, its not my car, although it would be a drop in the bucket to fix those things. They might have already been fixed, I dunno. I guess if Chris could find someone willing to pay that much to have it built, maybe he'll find someone willing to buy it for that price. There are some people that like to have a higher dollar figure on their car than the next guy, and in that game 300k in a '69 Camaro is hard to beat.

Maybe Chris will chime in on where the price came from. I could see someone spending 200-225k, but I would be interested in hearing where the rest of the money went.

Matt

[JJEH]

Nice...

But in this price range i prefer this:

http://www.nickeychicago.net/vehicle.php?id=230

[bubba57-chevy]

Those are two completely different cars. I've built cars for customers and the amount of time it takes to turn something out like the Fesler camaro is a ton. I cannot afford this car, hell I can't afford the wheels!! I'm just saying that Fesler builds fantastic cars and if the owner wants to ask almost 300K for it, go ahead, if he wants to ask 500K for it, go ahead. If someone wants to pay that much, more power to them. I see cars all the time with very high grades of fit, finish, design, engineering and they are very expensive. This is not just limited to PT cars. Tri-five chevys, street rods, just about any car can fall into this catagory. When one of us spends 20 or 30 hours making sure that the bumper end gaps are a perfectly recessed into a custom cut pocket in the fender or quarter, or we spend the same amount of time making sure there is a perfect 1/16th of an inch (or less) gap in all body panels, the rest of us look at them and quitely nod our heads in the affirmative,"yep, that guy gets it". But when a person does not have the skills to do this for themselves, however they do have the money to pay someone who does, they seem to hold a lower stature in our PT society. Well,, it is what it is. The fact of the matter is that Fesler, or others who do very high end work, have to charge customers enough to cover overhead and make a profit and these days that is a lot. So, don't discount this seller, or Fesler. The seller is wanting to regain some of the money he has spent on this car, hopefully so he can start another. Not everyone has the skills that some (or most) of us on this board have, but remember they can stimulate (i really dispise this word ever since the current administration turned it into something dirty) our hobby. It's not just a hobby for some, it is a living. I know that every cent I spend on my cars comes directly out of my shop, none out of my "day job" paycheck, goes towards my hot rods. Let's keep up the good work, keep having fun in our own ways.

[hifi875]

x2, until you have built one or paid someone to build a custom, you cant understand the labor involved, not counting the parts costs. it adds up quickly

[SHOUGHTON]

It will sell. Eveyone said the same thing about the Chevelle and that sold fast. They make a great product and if money wasn't a problem and I could have the car without waiting a year for it to be built I do it.

[silver69camaro]

x2, until you have built one or paid someone to build a custom, you cant understand the labor involved, not counting the parts costs. it adds up quickly

Exactly. Some builders start at $300k minimum. I'm not saying $285k is chump change, but it's not crazy by any means.

[Kevin Campbell]

Is it just my eyes, or are there bird droppings on the rt. quarter in the fourth picture?

Just sayin'

[Shiro666]

I think of it this way.

I am a rich guy. I have all of the rich guy cars. All of my rich guy friends have the same rich guy cars I have. I don't like street rods because they are for really old rich guys. Also, I saw in a movie that chicks like muscle cars.

What the heck do I buy?

A Fesler Camaro.

I think it fills a niche and there will plenty of rich dudes to buy it.

[Mr. Anderson]

It would be easy to have a car built and put that much money into it. In fact, for that specific car I can see $300,000 worth of parts and labor considering the modifications done and the current span of shop rates.

However, it seems a bit high-hoped to expect to get a single penny of the labor costs out of a car like that.

On a separate note...man, Fesler needs to come up with some billet pedals! With all the cool stuff they make, and all the cool parts on that car, the Lokar pedals just done seem to measure up.

[MarkM66]

If this car cost over $300k to build, how much does Troy Trepanier charge to build a car?

Because they're not in the same legue.

[prostreet69camaro]

Those are two completely different cars. I've built cars for customers and the amount of time it takes to turn something out like the Fesler camaro is a ton. I cannot afford this car, hell I can't afford the wheels!! I'm just saying that Fesler builds fantastic cars and if the owner wants to ask almost 300K for it, go ahead, if he wants to ask 500K for it, go ahead. If someone wants to pay that much, more power to them. I see cars all the time with very high grades of fit, finish, design, engineering and they are very expensive. This is not just limited to PT cars. Tri-five chevys, street rods, just about any car can fall into this catagory. When one of us spends 20 or 30 hours making sure that the bumper end gaps are a perfectly recessed into a custom cut pocket in the fender or quarter, or we spend the same amount of time making sure there is a perfect 1/16th of an inch (or less) gap in all body panels, the rest of us look at them and quitely nod our heads in the affirmative,"yep, that guy gets it". But when a person does not have the skills to do this for themselves, however they do have the money to pay someone who does, they seem to hold a lower stature in our PT society. Well,, it is what it is. The fact of the matter is that Fesler, or others who do very high end work, have to charge customers enough to cover overhead and make a profit and these days that is a lot. So, don't discount this seller, or Fesler. The seller is wanting to regain some of the money he has spent on this car, hopefully so he can start another. Not everyone has the skills that some (or most) of us on this board have, but remember they can stimulate (i really dispise this word ever since the current administration turned it into something dirty) our hobby. It's not just a hobby for some, it is a living. I know that every cent I spend on my cars comes directly out of my shop, none out of my "day job" paycheck, goes towards my hot rods. Let's keep up the good work, keep having fun in our own ways.

I agree with this 100%. I just finished a car for a friend. It was a 6 year project built in a 2 car garage. My friend put 150K in his car. With a shop like Fesler I can see it costing that much money. It is just hard to get the money back from guys like us.

[parsonsj]

how much does Troy Trepanier charge to build a car?A reliable source once told me that Troy works from a joint bank account opened by the customer and him. Initial deposit: $100K. Once that runs out, the customer puts in another $100K. And so on until the car is done.

jp

[ProdigyCustoms]

If this car cost over $300k to build, how much does Troy Trepanier charge to build a car?

Because they're not in the same legue.

That would be a nice deposit at Troys shop! He said in his interview on V8TV on the Riddler car the labor bills were $70K a week near the end!

[silver69camaro]

If this car cost over $300k to build, how much does Troy Trepanier charge to build a car?

Because they're not in the same legue.

More than $300k.

[Dayton]

Just as it's much cheaper to buy a house already built, it is MUCH cheaper to buy a car already built.
If you decide to build either, in the end, you will be very upside down.

[MarkM66]

More than $300k.

I would think it would depend on the hours/parts put into it. As opposed to that being the minimum amount, before he'll touch it. :dunno:

I'm sure many of his have gone over that price. But they're also almost all 100% custom built. Not bolt on parts.

[buickfunnycar.com]

If this car cost over $300k to build, how much does Troy Trepanier charge to build a car?

Because they're not in the same league.

No...not even close.
You'd have to stare at a Rad Rods car for hours to see all the nuances because it all looks stock but everything has been modified...everything.

[Matt@BOS]

I would think it would depend on the hours/parts put into it. As opposed to that being the minimum amount, before he'll touch it. :dunno:

I'm sure many of his have gone over that price. But they're also almost all 100% custom built. Not bolt on parts.

Yeah, from what I've heard Riddler cars are all over a million to build these days. Those cars are on a completely different level though, and in my opinion street machine of the year cars fall somewhere above high end driver cars and below insane show cars like Riddler cars. To me, this



until you have built one or paid someone to build a custom, you cant understand the labor involved, not counting the parts costs. it adds up quickly


I understand where you're coming from, but I've got a car that I feel is of equal caliber. It isn't a flawless car, but neither is this. If I had to pay "list" for all the parts and labor as well as the cost of someone sorting the car out for me, which has taken me half a year, I still don't think I'd break 200k it would be close though. If I could get 145k for selling my car I'd be downright ecstatic, so I'd like to know where the money went, (and who is willing to pay that much so I can give them a call if I ever want to sell). I'm not saying that Fesler isn't a reputable shop. I'd just like to know why this car is worth almost twice as much as mine.

Is that a reasonable question to ask?


Matt

[Dayton]

x2, until you have built one or paid someone to build a custom, you cant understand the labor involved, not counting the parts costs. it adds up quickly

You have to have a car built to understand this statement. My build took 4 years and 4 months. My builder built my car in his spare time, evenings & weekends, $25/hr for first 3 years, then $50 /hr. And still, my labor bill was $90k.

[coolwelder62]

I been thinking, I wonder how this car would match up on the road & atuo X course's & agains't a few car like Bad penny, Jackass, Red devil.They are all very nicely built cars too.

[Greg from Aus]

I went to Foose's shop for a tour last Year, the office manager said a Riddler car was up to about 1.2 mil and 4 years in the build.

Greg

[*i2ayman*]

What are Barry White's cars worth to build? We visited his shop recently, and the quality of his work was good. I don't know that he has access to so many custom little billet items, but so much stuff is available off the shelf for these 69's now.

[ironworks]

I been thinking, I wonder how this car would match up on the road & atuo X course's & agains't a few car like Bad penny, Jackass, Red devil.They are all very nicely built cars too.

Scott the cars listed were built for a completely different purpose. The day after Red Devil was done it hit the track ready to race and I believe won the event. This Black Camaro was never intended to run like Red Devil or at least has not yet. The quality or time has been invested in each project very differently.

Now the Overall price difference can be a few different things. It can be all the hidden details in the car, that 9 times out of 10, unless your super observant, you might not pick up half of them. It can also be just the overall fit and finish of the build. To get that last 10% of perfection can sometimes cost 90% more. It really comes down to the things you cannot see. How much bondo is on the car? Did they body guy do it with a super thin coat to only fill the Slight lows that he worked up as much as he could or did the car just get a 1/4" bigger after body work because the car got wrapped in a bondo shell? There are a very few guys that have spent the insane amount of time needed to build a car that they painted black and did not use "ANY" bondo. Those are the cars that really cost for not much visual. Then there are cars that anyone can see the money or time that went into the car. They may not fully undertand, but they know it was not cheap.

It is all about the quality.

Funny story, I have a customer we are doing a heavily cut up pickup truck for. Like 3000 hours of sheetmetal work, And counting. HEAVILY MODIFIED. He decided he wanted to narrow the grille 1" per side. Sounds very simple, just one inch. Well 3 wheels later and cut 1" out of 21 parts and reshaping a few big piece later. We go to reinstall the grille for the first time for the customer. 3 weeks at 50-55 hrs per week. So 150 ish hours, it was a lot of work for 1" on each side. He came into the shop and saw the grille, take into consideration he is in here 3-5 times a week. He looked at the grille knowing how much time was in it, roughly and said "MAN, that looks awesome, you can barely tell we did anything, but it is perfect." Do you have the bill. Not because he was concerned on price but because he knew we had earned every penny no matter how much it was.

It does not matter if you put a million dollars in a Corvette or a Chevette. Neither is a smart investment, but the money is in the underlying quality and details.

Now don't get me started on over priced inefficient shops. That is a whole other topic about over priced junk from guys who think their quality is what it really is not.

Rant over.

[buickfunnycar.com]

Great insight Rodger...thanks for that.

[Denvervet]

These high priced cars sell to people who can afford them. Period. There are plenty of guys with $ to buy this car......as one guy already pointed out........rich guys want something their buds don't already have. Part of selling these type cars is connections to the guys with the $. It's all about the connections. Good luck to this guy . Being a ball player I'm sure he has some buds with the coin. This is a very very nicely done vehicle...I saw it once during the build.
So let's not fall into the "crabs in the pot behavior":spank2:

[Ron.in.SoCal]

As stated by Roger - quality definately costs lots o' dinero! Just look at high end builds like Troy's or the vette put out by the Roadster shop (that one was half a mil, IIRC). And people who pay for that expect to pick up the tab and gladly (usually) do. The question posed by this thread is the value of this car for sale. I think Fesler builds great cars, not sure I'd buy this one for 285 even if I could shell out that kinda dough. I rememebr looking at his site around January and he had two 69 Camaros he was selling for around 250. They looked really nice, but I was doing research for a different king of build. And his Chevelle did go pretty fast....

[MoparCar]

Ring Brother's said they have 4,000+ hours into their Afterburner Fairlane. Do the math at shop rates just for the labor, then add parts, CNC custom work, one off carbon fiber, etc. and it really pushes the cost of the car. Hopefully some of that is returned to the owner by show fees, sponsorship, magazine ads, etc., but it is still a huge number.

[SatisTraction]

I think of it this way.

I am a rich guy. I have all of the rich guy cars. All of my rich guy friends have the same rich guy cars I have. I don't like street rods because they are for really old rich guys. Also, I saw in a movie that chicks like muscle cars.

What the heck do I buy?

A Fesler Camaro.

I think it fills a niche and there will plenty of rich dudes to buy it.


i am a poor guy but i love the thought process. now i want it!!!!!! :fingersx:

[Flash68]

You have to have a car built to understand this statement. My build took 4 years and 4 months. My builder built my car in his spare time, evenings & weekends, $25/hr for first 3 years, then $50 /hr. And still, my labor bill was $90k.

Jesus, $25-50/hr and this was in NorCal? That is bottom of the barrel cheap if it's good quality!

[silver69camaro]

I would think it would depend on the hours/parts put into it. As opposed to that being the minimum amount, before he'll touch it. :dunno:



From what I've heard, that is the minimum.

[ironworks]

I would think it would depend on the hours/parts put into it. As opposed to that being the minimum amount, before he'll touch it. :dunno:

I'm sure many of his have gone over that price. But they're also almost all 100% custom built. Not bolt on parts.

It is not that he won't touch it if it is not enough money, it is just
that he can't touch it if there is not enough money to do what they do on each car. There is just a bare minimum that it takes them to be able to do what they do. After that minimum number it is just all options and the sky is the limit.

But you also have to take into account that EVERY project goes over budget. Every customer adds something more to the build someway.

[David Sloan]

But you also have to take into account that EVERY project goes over budget. Every customer adds something more to the build someway.


Isnt that the truth!! From my little experience this has happen every time.
Thanks

[paul67]

he's had 2 offers wonder what they were,wonder what it turning circle is and going over speed bumps.If I had the money I would buy ,think $3 mill+ for veron,and people are buying them.This there's no other.Oh and it's been my desktop for months.

[Josh69]

That thing is dead sexy. I hope it sells for huge dough, that helps all of us in the long run.

[EFI69Cam]

That thing is dead sexy. I hope it sells for huge dough, that helps all of us in the long run.


I agree we should all be wishing Chris best of luck in getting what he wants. It does help all of us, even if we are not selling its evidence of similar cars for insurance purposes.

[LowBuckX]

Sweet car but $290 large--- Stock subframe.... just sayin when you are working with that budget a $6-$7K subframe would have to be in the plans.


Just to clarify I have no Beef with the sum of cash because I know the time it takes... Just the stock subframe seems out of place.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[NOPANTS-68]

Hell if I was Fesler I'd throw a monster numer on it as well. Best case scenario some sultan falls in love with it and buys it for stupid cash. Worst case scenario he gets a billion clicks on it because the price stands out on ebay so boldly and gets shop recognition. This class of cars are only worth top dollar the very minute they are finished and hit the scene. The next year you'll be lucky to pull half that much because it's been seen and is old hat. Personally, I don't think there's a camaro out there worth $290k other than some historical vintage trans-am cars, but that's not for me to decide since my bank account doesn't put me in a potential buyer's position. It's nothing I would ever own, but it only takes one wealthy nut to click the buy it now button.

[astross89]

he's had 2 offers wonder what they were,wonder what it turning circle is and going over speed bumps.If I had the money I would buy ,think $3 mill+ for veron,and people are buying them.This there's no other.Oh and it's been my desktop for months.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/01/s-1.gif 7***e (http://contact.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&EncUid=6e009152be67e0d00666a7e608470462&iid=120608686703&frm=992)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/01/s-1.gif ( 11 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&EncUid=6e009152be67e0d00666a7e608470462)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/iconYellowStar_25x25-1.gif) US $1.00 Declined Aug-13-10 23:58:02 PDT https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/01/s-1.gif https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/01/s-1.gifhttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/01/s-1.gif 7***e (http://contact.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&EncUid=6e009152be67e0d00666a7e608470462&iid=120608686703&frm=992)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2006/01/s-1.gif ( 11 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&EncUid=6e009152be67e0d00666a7e608470462)https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2008/12/iconYellowStar_25x25-1.gif) US $2,750.99 Declined Aug-13-10 23:56:11 PDT

[ZZ430]

Cool car, but when it's advertised for that amount I guess we can pick it apart.

I agree the rear bumper bolts should have been shaved, they really stick out. How much more would that have added to it anyway?

I see they are stainless headers. Those plug wire boot sleeves are just plain ugly, how about finding some plug wires that would work without those?

x2 on the stock subframe too.

[rjsjea]

The add states he selling it for the owner.....maybe Fesler didn't set the price at all?? Maybe he's selling it for the owner to get the next build the guy plans?

Either way, Fesler produces some nice products and since this thread is on Page3, it's getting the Fesler name out there.

[Takid455]

I am told that the last few riddler cars cost 2-2.4M. 2nd place was only 1.5M.

Not sure what their rate is, but labor adds up. 1-2000 hours on a full custom is nothing.

[gEtyOpAPiOn]

i believe he went with that frame because of the air ride ? but they now offer air ride for dse frames :twothumbs:

but i that price on that Fesler 69 ,I would be scared to ask about the build prices for that michael manning and kyle busch camaros from Detroit Speed!!

[Fesler built]

I am in no way looking to pick fights with anyone and their opinions but want to point out a few key things to think about when looking at any car. So I guess it's time for me to chime in here on the Draco Sale. First this car is 100 percent built to the way the client wanted it with our touches. Nothing on the car is stock it might appear to look stock but I assure you every part and panel is custom in some way. As to some of the comments yes it would have been cheaper for me to buy an aftermarket sub-frame and put it into the car then modify the one we did. We spent hours welding and re-shaping the sub-frame to look the way it does. I tried a few times to get that point across but when someone wants something and they are paying to have it done they get it. Like the bolts in the bumpers, I would never leave bolts in bumpers but that was a must on this build. There are 100 things I would have changed on this build but for what direction we were told to go IMO its one of the sickest Camaro's in its class. Now don’t go saying it’s the sickest Camaro ever because I did not say that.

For anyone to say what its worth and to try and compare it to another shop is unfair as most people don’t have a clue to how many hours are in the car and what it took to build this car. Let's start with the Black paint, look how smooth the car is and how deep the paint is, we work all the metal as Roger pointed out to have as little fill on there as possible and that takes time. Or how about just a few of the parts like the intake on the 575 engine it's all hand built out of steel for a one of a kind look and for something that no one else has. There are over 80 hours with fab and paint time, the center console has over 60 hours with fab and leather. Think of this, the interior in this car is so custom that you can be driving down the freeway at 60-80MPH (Keep in mind 572HP engine with Flowmaster Super 40s right under the seats) with the windows up and be talking on your hands free blue tooth phone and hear everything perfect. Think of how much Dynamat and custom foam work there is in this car to make that happen. The floor alone has over 2-inch High Density foam with two layers of Dynamat installed as does the headliner we build to the car. The problem is everyone is a critic when it comes to building a car but most don’t understand what it takes to do so. This car is nowhere near a Troy car for custom but it is as nice when it comes to fit and finish. That is also why it’s the price it is if he wanted to go insane like a Troy car it would have easy been over $600K+++ all day but I don’t like cars like that kind of car. I think Troy builds some of the badest cars out there and I know some of the guys that have had cars built there and they paid way more than what is being said they paid and that’s the problem. I build cars to drive and drive hard but my attention to details is still there.

This car was originally built to be a Yenko clone so I am sure you can see the client went way off course and that cost money. Everytime you change something it adds up and adds up fast. There are some things he wanted factory and some things he wanted modified so we did both for this build and gave the client exactly what he wanted. Most people don’t even notice all the work in the metal, interior and engine bay they just look at it and say that’s a nice car but I don’t see the money and that is exactly what we go for on every build we do. Some of the things we do are sick and custom and noticeable and some are very factory looking with custom touches to make it look stock. Either way I guess if people are talking about it we are doing something right. I am not the cheapest shop in the country and I am not the most expensive but you do get what you pay for at our shop and at the end of the day that is all that matters. The Client never has to sell this car so he can set the price and the only reason it's up for sale is he has over 9 cars so this is just a toy to him. Most people will never understand how people can do this but when you have a great job making more money than you can spend you do what you want.

[sniper]

I don't think there is a need to justify what you are asking. There are so many things that people don't know or care to understand. Something is only worth what someone else is willing to pay, but you have to start the figure somewhere.

BTW: 2 months since the last post. No bigge just sayin.

Good luck with the sale.

[Fesler built]

Yeah we have been busy with a huge shop move, SEMA, Goodguys and making new parts. Things are settled down now so we will be back with updates. I am working on all that now. We have lots of new things in the works for you guys.

[andrewb70]

I think this thread has sufficiently run it's course.

Andrew