Well Hot Rod changed my way of thinking

[PT Sportwagon]

I picked up the new issue of Hot Rod Mag today. I read the starting Line column about old versus new engines. it really opened my thinking. I have always disliked the way GM thinks that no matter the brand of GM muscle car you have you should put in a GM( Chevy)crate engine. I have been a purest on that half. But after reading that column I have changed. Even let my wife read it. She is worse than me on the purest attitude. She even agrees. I may even ( gasp) think about a LS swap into the Wagon with the edelbrock dual quad intake.

Tim

[LS1NOVA]

Who cares what Hot Rod says, do what you want. They just try to predict trends. LS with dual quads would be perfect.

[carguy502]

I hear you, PT. I have always been mildly apprehensive about doing an LS engine, new hat and all. I figured I was just going to have to dive into it head first and roll with the punches. The Hot Rod breakdown took some of that away stupid nervous fear, seeing some of the tricks to make an LS live. It might help people who wanted to but feared the mechanics of it.

[JEFFTATE]

The LS Engines are a great design .
The heads flow well.
The blocks are strong.
The engines are lightweight.
They make great power.
They get good fuel economy.
And they are easy to attain , modify , and build.
Plus , the aftermarket support is great..
What's not to love ???

If it makes you feel better , have a set of custom valve covers made with Buick , or Oldsmobile , or Pontiac on them ...
At least the LS is a GM engine ...

[formula]

I need to sit down and write the article about how, in many ways, the ls engine is a culmination of a lot of the best and brightest ideas from many other engines. If you look, there are a lot of similarities to poncho, olds, caddy, heck even ford engines. The engineers that created these the ls line clearly spent a lot of time studying what was out there and doing their best to implement as much of the genius that had come before into these things.

(plus, they're really freaking fast)

[Ron S]

I THINK YOU SHOULD ONLY USE THE CORRECT ENGINE THAT BELONGS IN THE CAR!......oh wait a minute, uh, well, I mean, anything goes. I was somewhat of a pureist for a long time, but anything that keeps these old cars performing like supercars, I'm all for. When possible,with future projects, I will probably try to keep a Ford in a Ford, etc., but I'm not going to look down on anyone who builds a good performing bast@rd. Just my 2 cents. Ron

[John Wright]

LOL...says the man with Ford sheet metal wrapped around a GM......LOL

[critter]

Well, I have a Pontiac in my Pontiac but I'm not purist. I am of the mind that any man/woman should do what makes them happy so long as it's not against God's law or man's law. Now I have some friends who feel a non-Pontiac motor in a Pontiac is an affront to God's law. :)

[twosaturns]

when I build another car (like a '78 regal I have in my head) I flip-flop between ZZ4, LS/LQ-something, or a buick 455.
the ZZ4 is appealing because it's just an engine swap; no fuel lines to change, sending units, fuel pump, computer, etc.
and it would be a hell of a lot cheaper than an LS conversion.

[PT Sportwagon]

If it makes you feel better , have a set of custom valve covers made with Buick , or Oldsmobile , or Pontiac on them ...
At least the LS is a GM engine ...

Jeff, that is what I was thinking a custom Buick valve cover. I am a purest in some sence, I think depends on the car. My next project idea will have an original type engine ( 455 BB Buick in a Buick) But other ideas are modular Ford in a 60s Ford wagon, Etc. but right now I have my Sport wagon.
My big thing is right now $$$$ as I don't have much. Plus no place to work on it. So I do what I can with what I can.

Tim

[srh3trinity]

I guess I am not much of a purist. There aren't many cars that I would leave completely stock, and to me putting an LS engine in a Pontiac, Olds or Buick isn't that much of a stretch. I am smart enough to "get" why it is cool to build an awesome Pontiac engine or Buick engine for the right car, but a lot of people's budgets don't allow for that as it typically costs a good bit more. So, if you could do an LS swap and increase the drivability of the car, mileage, and make similar power to a high end brand correct power plant for similar or in many cases less money, then that makes sense to me. Besides, most of the folks on this website aren't doing factory restorations.

[wmhjr]

Nothing whatsoever wrong with using an LS. People should feel comfortable building their projects however they want, and LS motors are pretty well suited to PT type builds. They make sense.

[MonzaRacer]

Its ok if you have the CASH for an LSx. figure on at least $1000 minimum for swapping with exhaust and ignition and fuel.
I have yet to not break the $899 barrier so far in installing and wiring an LSx into my Monza and this doesnt include the minimum cost of an engine I have found was a burnt up 4.8 for $350 and it had like 170k on it so it would require at least a new gaskets,headbolts induction parts.
LSx is great if your rich
I can get my 283 done and have less than $1000 in total engine including 2 custom pistons, but I am thinking of slightly better idea by building a long rod 302 chevy to kill torque.

[68Formula]

I need to sit down and write the article about how, in many ways, the ls engine is a culmination of a lot of the best and brightest ideas from many other engines. If you look, there are a lot of similarities to poncho, olds, caddy, heck even ford engines. The engineers that created these the ls line clearly spent a lot of time studying what was out there and doing their best to implement as much of the genius that had come before into these things.

(plus, they're really freaking fast)

Not to mention, this was the first clean-slate engine (save for the bore spacing) after GM consolidated from all the seperate divisions powertrain groups into one. It's highly possible that former Buick, Olds, and Caddy powertrain engineers were all working on it together and incorporating the best of the best from each divisions powertrain groups.

[parsonsj]

it really opened my thinking.Welcome to the light! I have little patience for those that think a car has a "soul" or that one must use the same brand for the car and engine.

It's silly, really. Build a car using your best values and practices, and let the brand chips fall where they may.

jp

[sik68]

I still have an SBC, but eventually I will switch over to an LS. Call me old school, but I'd still run it with a carburetor, as it's higher on my soul-meter :) , easier and cheaper to convert.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/08/lsx454crateengine-1.jpg

[68Formula]

I'd still run it with a carburetor, as it's higher on my soul-meter :) , easier and cheaper to convert.


Think it depends on whether what you're building. A take-out engine where all the original EFI components are present and can be used should be cheaper.

Wire harness can be modified, and there are reasonably priced calibration software that interface with the factory ECU.

For the carburetored version you have the carburetor to buy, and the manifold. Plus you still You still need a brain to run the ignition (or a converted timing cover and distributor system), and an electric pump (no provision for mechanical pump). Plus if you want to run an electric fan, the controller is already built into the ECU.

[Ripped]

It does depend on what you are running and how often.

I love seeing the flathead fords, nail heads, 331 hemis and all the unusual and historic engines.

Next decsion is, if you are going to drive the car?
Car shows only, Drag racing, blasting between pubs, daily driving, track racing, pro touring.

At some point reliability, cost, parts availability, durability all kick in.

You have to decide what works for you.

Do you want a turbo'd 800hp monster that you can brag about, that sits in your garage/shop or is constantly being worked on... or do you want to get in and drive?

Do you want to do a cross country pro-touring cruise, and be able to pull into any auto parts store and be able to get a brake pad or radiator hose or valve cover gasket, for your car?

Depends how deep your pockets are too. Some people can afford a different car everyday of the week. Most can't :smoke: and that's cool.

[Rhino]

HotRod is still in print? Good for them. :)

My subscription lapsed years ago, which was a few years after they stopped being relevant to my interests.

[Rhino]

I have yet to not break the $899 barrier so far in installing and wiring an LSx into my Monza and this doesnt include the minimum cost of an engine I have found was a burnt up 4.8 for $350 and it had like 170k on it so it would require at least a new gaskets,headbolts induction parts.


I picked up a 100k LQ4 for $350. All it was missing was intake. After I parted out a 2002 T/A I purchased, I have less than $1000 into a 19k mile motor with PCM, harness, fuel system, and 100% of the accessories.
When you're talking about picking up used parts, it's all about finding the deal.

I'm convinced that with the same amount of effort an LS1 swap would cost within a few hundred bucks of a traditional small block swap. Millions of these motors have been sold for over a decade now. Deals are out there to be found. :)

[Pro Stock]

HotRod is still in print? Good for them. :)

My subscription lapsed years ago, which was a few years after they stopped being relevant to my interests.
Yes they are but for the last few months they have looked like Hot Rod Deluxe. (barf)

[DarkBuddha]

I haven't read the article, but I've always had mixed feelings about maintaining brand consistency between the chassis and engine. Sure, the LS motors are an excellent design and package, but would/should I put one in my '70 Mach 1? I considered it recently when I was offered a 20k mile LS7 from a wrecked ZO6 for $7k, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. Of course, part of the problem is that I didn't have $7k available, but I also thought that I could probably build something formidable in a Ford motor for $7k and it'd surely be less trouble to fit. So there it is... the conundrum: should you deviate from brand consistency if there's no good reason not to?

[Mingus]

I was always going to do a 455 Olds in my Cutlass until I got the PT bug. Now I can't imagine putting that much weight (even with aluminum heads) in the nose of my car. I haven't decided for sure if I'm going with EFI or not, but I'm almost certainly doing an LS. That being said, anyone that does or doesn't want to put one in shouldn't just because of what other people are saying. Do what you want because you want to do it.
For instance, I have never liked the 18"/20" wheel combos on cars. It looks out of proportion to me. I don't care if anybody else does it on their cars, but hopefully they are doing it because they like it and not just because it's the "thing" to do.
What critter said about some Pontiac guys being hardcore purists is certainly true. All brands have them, but it seems that Pontiac has the most. It has always puzzled me too since Pontiac was the worst of the GM brands at putting other makes of engines in their cars. They had Chevy, Olds and Buick engines in their cars stock. They always want to rip them out and put in Pontiac engines, but that actually makes them non-stock.

[Rhino]

should you deviate from brand consistency if there's no good reason not to?

I'd say if you have the itch, do it. However, you do have to keep in mind that if you go to sell it, you're limiting your market a little.

A friend of mine is doing a '69 Mustang coupe with an LS1. His reasoning was that dollar for dollar he'd get much better performance out of the LS motor than he would a mod motor.

[DarkBuddha]

Again, I go back and forth on this. I certainly don't have an objection when others see fit to swap whatever. Hell, my XR (a Ford product) has a BMW diff in it.


A friend of mine is doing a '69 Mustang coupe with an LS1. His reasoning was that dollar for dollar he'd get much better performance out of the LS motor than he would a mod motor.
Seems completely reasonable, but depending on his goals, for the same dollar, I think there are probably other Ford motor combos that can compete with an LS conversion, especially once the new Ford 300+hp V6 and 400+hp 5.0 V8 are readily available for cheap. So from that stand point, it's a toss up for me.

And I wonder how folks feel when import motors find their way into a GM/Ford/Mopar/whatever? It's been done... Supra 2JZ powered '69 Camaro, the Nissan SR20DET powered '67 Mustang, etc. Maybe next it'll be a turbo'd Honda J35 powered '69 Dodge Charger (General Lee style!). I don't personally have any objection to any of those other than I just don't see the point in deviating if there is no good reason to. But then again, if I just happened to have a 900hp turbo'd J35 and the requisite '69 Charger, then maybe that would be a good enough reason to.

[Rhino]

You're absolutely right about the older ford combos. Another thing that may have swayed his decision a little was riding in my SS. Ever since I purchased it 8 years ago he's wanted an LS powered vehicle. Once we got a good deal on a few totaled 4th Gen F-bodies the decision was made.

I think it's equal parts opportunity and interest.