am I in the wrong? (concerning a deal with a sponsor)

[SR71]

I recently ordered a pair of wheels from a site sponsor. a 50% down payment was made up front and I was told that the build time should be 6 weeks. well, that was great as that 6 weeks would give me ample time to get the rest of the money together. now mind you, this sponsor has been great to deal with. I can't say enough good things about how helpful they have been.

anyway, I'm just spending the time working extra and squirreling extra money away as I can to pay the rest of the bill when my wheels are done. time sure seems to move slowly sometimes.

last night, we sent our daughter out to get us a pizza. my gf's debit card was declined. she knew that she should have had plenty left in that account so she pulled it up on line. well surprise, surprise, there was a debit for $700 on her account(we have a second job that we both work together and all of the money comes through her account. my part of the money is my toy fund). that was the exact amount still owed on my wheels. so I called the sponsor that I ordered them through. sure enough, they were done early(it had been 4 weeks, not 6). I had the cash to cover the wheels squirreled back waiting to feed into the account when they were done. it was also 2 days before our bi weekly paycheck from the second job was direct deposited into the account. that $700 debit caused a couple of checks/debits that tried to clear to go NSF. it's probably going to cost me at least a hundred bucks before it's over.

my question is....would you not have expected a call from said sponsor to let you know that your items were ready and the rest of the money was due instead of them just pulling it from your account without notice??? remember, this was 2 weeks before the expected ship date.

I called them and was told that this was standard procedure and that they had done it this way for years. do the rest of you guys operate this way???

I was absolutely estatic with the service from this company until this happened.

am I wrong to feel this way??? let's hear some opinions.

[alowerlevel]

So your mad at them because your wheels were ready 2 weeks EARLY and they didnt tell you? :hmm:

[SR71]

I think I should have been notified before they debited $700 from our checking account 2 weeks early.

did I not make that clear in the post?

[SatisTraction]

i dont know what is right or wrong but i would not be happy with the situation.

[alowerlevel]

I think I should have been notified before they debited $700 from our checking account 2 weeks early.

did I not make that clear in the post?

I understand what your saying but if you already had saved enough to cover the wheels, why not just have the money in that account ready to go?

[ErikLS2]

Build times vary with custom parts. Sure it would have been nice to get a call from them saying the wheels were done early. If I'm the vendor though, you already committed to the purchase, why should I make sure you have all your money shuffled around and in the right account at the right time?

If I were you I would post up the name of the vendor and thank them for their great service and include some pictures of the wheels while you're at it.

[SR71]

I understand what your saying but if you already had saved enough to cover the wheels, why not just have the money in that account ready to go?

to be sure that it didn't get spent on something else. there are 3 of us with access to that account. one of them is our 17 yr old daughter. I usually transfer my money out of that account into my savings and feed it back in as I need it.

[SR71]

Build times vary with custom parts. Sure it would have been nice to get a call from them saying the wheels were done early. If I'm the vendor though, you already committed to the purchase, why should I make sure you have all your money shuffled around and in the right account at the right time?

If I were you I would post up the name of the vendor and thank them for their great service and include some pictures of the wheels while you're at it.

I said that I had great service from them. I also told them up front that it would take the 6 weeks for me to have the rest of the money together.

evidently you are independently wealthy. maybe poorboys like me should just stay out of this whole pro touring thing. everyone just assumes that we are all made of money.

oh, and my gf was the one that gave them the card number and info. she says that she was told that they would have to call us for the card number again when the wheels were done because they did not keep the numbers on file.

[Racerxtx]

Unless you actually authorized the $700 debit to your account, the vendor is in the wrong, period. Sounds like you only authorized the 50% down payment, not the $700.

[1badchevelle]

to be sure that it didn't get spent on something else. there are 3 of us with access to that account. one of them is our 17 yr old daughter. I usually transfer my money out of that account into my savings and feed it back in as I need it.

That would not be their fault. If you commited on buying the wheels and they would ship when ready, than great. How are they going to know who and why the have access to the account and why $$ is transfered from one account to another. Would a call have been nice yes. But the deal was done and completed before hand. Thats good in my book. YOu can take it up with the bank I am sure they will wave some of the fees.

On custom parts this is the nature of the beast. That is way you use a c/c.

[parsonsj]

evidently you are independently wealthy. maybe poorboys like me should just stay out of this whole pro touring thing. everyone just assumes that we are all made of money.
Hey, wait a minute. I thought you were looking for other opinions. Why the slam when you get an opinion that you don't seem to like?

jp

[1badchevelle]

Unless you actually authorized the $700 debit to your account, the vendor is in the wrong, period. Sounds like you only authorized the 50% down payment, not the $700.

Most suppliers have a 50% upfront and balance when completed. IF its early, on time or late. You will get billed when ready to ship.

[Bow Tie 67]

I'm not reading through all the posts, but I would be pissed. Then again I would have never have used a debit card for a purchase like that. I'm sure they assumed it was a credit card, not the sponsors fault.

[Tony_SS]

oh, and my gf was the one that gave them the card number and info. she says that she was told that they would have to call us for the card number again when the wheels were done because they did not keep the numbers on file.

If this is the case, I would want to raise a stink. I don't think that's very good practice if they say one thing and do another.

[Tony_SS]

I'm not reading through all the posts, but I would be pissed. Then again I would have never have used a debit card for a purchase like that. I'm sure they assumed it was a credit card, not the sponsors fault.

For the vendor to run it though, it would have been as credit, as the vendor probably didn't have his pin number. But yes, purchases like this are better done with an actual credit card since there's more protection on the buyers side.

[Zanie]

I wouldn't expect a call if parts were shipping early. But then again, I don't remember that ever happening to me, my parts are always late!

I always use a credit card so I'm not left hanging if a vendor puts the decimal point in the wrong spot or something else goes awry.

[BuzzKillian]

I would have been pissed also... if "she was told that they would have to call us for the card number again when the wheels were done because they did not keep the numbers on file."
Consider this a lesson learned. (Hopefully not too expensive one.)
At least you didn't have to pay the complete bill upfront like I did... but it was really nice when they came early... and they were paid for.

[MarkM66]

It wouldn't of even crossed my mind that they did the wrong thing, I'd be to happy the wheels were coming early.

But I guess we all handle finances differently. As I wouldn't be putting such purchases on a debit card.

[Chad-1stGen]

I'd be unhappy too. I can say that when I ordered wheels from a vendor on this site that is how they handled it too. It was a true CC and didn't cause me any problems and I didn't think twice about it at the time, though I don't recall them explicitly stating the balance would be automatically charged when the wheels were completed.

[trex1270]

You could have told them to call you before they charge the remaining amount....but there is a lesson here...this is why you never ever give out your debit card number to anyone for autopay...not the bank, the car company, no one. When you do that you give them the ok to take the money, and it can be hell to get back..

[96t/acj]

^^^ Agreed..... There in the wrong. They asked for a deposit, not the whole amount. Otherwise they might as well get it all up front. I'm waiting on the product to be made i should get a phone call, Email, text message :) when its ready its called "Customer Service"!

[mc84_zz4]

I'd be happy the wheels were done early, and use a credit card for the next time you do large purchases.
If there were a problem with the delivery, of you were not happy with the product, if the vendor would not
work with you, your CC company can go to bat for you (but that would be another scenario).
Another good reason to use a credit card for those things.
It still sux though. Here let me buy you a cyber beer... :cheers:

[Bill Howell]

I am not sure I follow this? I have never been mad when something came early, I just don't see the issue. I am not sure what you expect the vendor to do here? Hold the wheels til you are ready for them??? You ordered them, they guesstimated when they would be finished and you agreed to pay for them. Now that they come early, you don't like it? Sorry, but IMO, and this is just my opinion, you shouldn't be ordering parts you are not ready to pay for, period. If two weeks makes a difference, you should have waited two weeks to order. In my countertop business, I can't tell my supplier to hold something I ordered and expect him to foot the bill til I am ready for it. Sometimes things, especially in this economy come early because there is not as much production going on or backlogs. ENJOY it, soon everything will be backordered again.
I just don't see where the vendor was wrong here. He provided a service, you gave him payment information, and he billed the final bill when the parts were shipped? What exactly did they do wrong? Now, if you are billed and the parts are not on the way, then I feel you have a bitch. If they come within the week, put them on the car and be happy.

OH, BTW, I am simply replying to your original post. I, as everyone else don't have all the facts here. I am not siding with anyone just giving my opinion based on what I know.

[ssmike]

Something does not make sense here.......

Was the company authorized in advance to debit your account when the wheels were completed? Yes or No????

If the answer is yes, then you have nothing to complain about except that you did not get a courtesy phone call from the vendor.....That call would have arguably given you time to put your cash into the account to fund the debit.


If the answer is no, meaning you had only authorized the 50 percent charge and nothing else, then the vendor is at fault. In that case, the vendor's debit was unauthorized. Your financial institution can reject it with your approval.

[68Formula]

I understand why you are upset. Think of it this way. A vendor gets dozens or hundreds of orders every day. They also usually have several employees. And they're not designed to be a warehouse. This makes it unfeasible to track everyone's situation especially in a case like this.

The take away for next time, is to use a credit card. Had the parts been early, the billing cycle would have left you enough time to pay. Plus you are better protected if something is wrong with the product. If you can't use a cc, then wait until the money will be available or at least give yourself some buffer (like half the expected time).

Just be glad your not one of the statistics where money was paid, and order was not received.

[DocJr]

I think some of you are missing his point.

Trust me, I think he's happy that his wheels came early...

His point is regarding money. I do agree with ssmike, authorization is authorization, that's the deciding factor. To reiterate some of the OP's rant, since they charged earlier than expected, he's out of atleast a hundred bucks from his rubber debits..



I can't tell my supplier to hold something I ordered and expect him to foot the bill til I am ready for it.


I'm not quite understanding this Mr. Howell. I would think it works like anything else, don't pay, don't receive. I guess I'm asking what 'bill" has to be footed for a wait of 2 weeks? storage?

All that I can say, is it sucks dude. I hope it all works out in the end.:fingersx:

[novaderrik]

this is one of those things that separates the "haves" from the "have nots".
some of us don't have bucket loads of money just sitting around or a credit card to use for things like this, so everything is a "pay as you go" kind of deal.
as a fellow "have not" myself, i would be really pissed if i was billed when i wasn't supposed to be.
going by what was said here, when they took the order i'm sure they could have made a note on the computer to call when the order was done before charging the remaining balance and shipping it out. i know that would be one phone call i'd love to get, and would have the money ready to be put into the proper account immediately so i could pay for and get my new wheels.
plus, it would give me an actual timeframe to wait for the big brown truck to show up so i could sign for it in person and not come home to an expensive looking pile of cardboard boxes sitting on my front porch just begging for someone to steal them..

[Bill Howell]

I think some of you are missing his point.

Trust me, I think he's happy that his wheels came early...

His point is regarding money. I do agree with ssmike, authorization is authorization, that's the deciding factor. To reiterate some of the OP's rant, since they charged earlier than expected, he's out of atleast a hundred bucks from his rubber debits..



I'm not quite understanding this Mr. Howell. I would think it works like anything else, don't pay, don't receive. I guess I'm asking what 'bill" has to be footed for a wait of 2 weeks? storage?

All that I can say, is it sucks dude. I hope it all works out in the end.:fingersx:

First, and foremost, PLEASE, I am Bill, not Mr. Howell. That is my dad.

I am guessing here and assuming, so we all know what that gets us.
I figure that the supplier(wheel builder) probably shipped the wheels directly to the customer, thus saving shipping it twice and the costs involved. Unforunately, if that is the case, the wheel builder wants his money before shipping. Now, also assuming the vendor made a minimum on the wheels, I don't see how you can expect him to pay for the wheels, ship them on to the customer and not get paid. Most of the vendors I know don't warehouse all these parts and carry alot of money on their books.
All this said, if you order parts, you should expect to pay for them when they are shipped to you. As far as haves and have nots, that is always a relative arguement. I personally always have a budget on my cars, and work within it. I never order parts until I can pay for them, and I don't mix my "car money" with my household budget. While having a charge declined might have been embarrassing, I hardly see it as the vendor's fault or issue. The vendor did his part, and I am sure has more on their plate than notifing the customer about a two week early part?? Refer to above, if you order, expect to pay when parts come. I think the OP said he had the money, just in another account. IMO, and again, just my opinion, he should have already transfered the money into the right account, it isn't like it would have drawn that much interest in two weeks.
It boils down to personal responsiblity to me. Like I said, in my business, I pay as I go and don't order something until I am sure I have money to pay for it. I see this no different. I don't see it the wheel maker, or the vendor's responsiblity to put these wheels in a holding pattern for two weeks just because they were early.

Like others have said, a credit card would have probably been the better option here.

[Gitter Dun]

Dont spend money you dont have. Do as I say, not as I do, lol.

These are the things that you need to prepare yourself for and learn from.

Overdraft protection from your bank will save you extra costs.

It's OK when the state gives out I.O.U.'s, but when it's us little people we take it up the rear.

Whats done is done, chalk it up as a learning experience and move on.

[MonzaRacer]

OK from a guy just starting business, I only do the followup charge either on a day specified or call for further authorization to charge off final bill. I have always done thins and will always do this. specific billing dates help and call if it comes in early.
too many people dont think its hard to keep a lot of cash in one account so have connected savings. would i pissed, yes, but I also see OP reasoning because I would also like to know parts are coming early and to be there to sign and inspect them.
Guess you can call this lesson learned. and chalk it up to dont assume anything.

[DocJr]

Sorry Bill, I was trying to be as respectful as possible haha

I understand everything you're saying, but trying to side with the OP (I for one would be perturbed too). I don't see a major problem in waiting a few weeks for the customers money...car builders do it all the time. Some may just drop the job, others will stop production until client is caught up.

I know you can't please every customer, but I would feel bad if one of them got screwed out of a hundred or so bucks just because I finished the job early. Everyone thinks about deadlines all the time, even though early is great, I think this could be a time where it's not so good. People rely on deadlines.

It's easy to tell the guy he should have transferred his funds right away, I understand this. I'm also thinking about different situations. What if a customer was relying on a couple more weeks of paychecks? (I know, you shouldn't buy parts if you can't afford them) but for some, that's all they can do.

When it comes down to it, I feel if you give someone a projected date of completion, either stick by it, or notify them of any changes...time is money.

[DarkBuddha]

I know this isn't much help in retrospect, but I learned from working at a credit union for 6 years to never use my debit card for purchases online or mail order. There's just too many potential issues.

As for your current situation, I don't know what to say... if the vendor pledged to contact you before the second debit, then they have a large amount of responsibility for the situation. But I doubt they'll be proactive about finding a reasonable resolution. That kind of thinking is beyond most folks unless they approach their job with creativity and initiative... two things that seem grossly missing in the customer service field.

[BritishGreen68]

I would say the fault is 50/50. When I call up to order something, especially something expensive, I have all the money ready to go, even if its only half up front. They assumed since you ordered them in the first place that you had the money, and they SHOULD have called you to let you know about the second transaction, but you should have known it could happen this way.
If they were to call you, and say "hey the stuff is done were going to take out $700 now and ship them", they would be equally angry if you reply'd with "can ya wait till thursday I have to get the money".. they don't want to sit on the parts, they have on time delivery to deal with and graphs and charts and everything else that go with a company and they want to get it out the door asap... I would say lesson learned and your just going to have to recover from the other financial stress it caused you. I have been in difficult situations like this before and no matter how much I complain and ask and try to get around it, you always end up paying the piper and learning from it.

[DocJr]

I only ask the question...Why the 50% down? It's obvious he didn't have the money, or he would have paid in full...it's like a payment plan...and like I said, with the projected deadline, a plan is a plan, stick by it, because he needed that time.

[jocko124]

I only ask the question...Why the 50% down? It's obvious he didn't have the money, or he would have paid in full...it's like a payment plan...and like I said, with the projected deadline, a plan is a plan, stick by it, because he needed that time.

Not necessarily true. Most people, even if they have the cash in hand, don't want to pay 100% up front and have that money dead for 6 weeks---and besides, if the delivery time slips, you could be out the entire sum for months. It is apparent that being a vendor is a tough job. If you deliver late people complain; if you deliver too early, people still complain. In order to avoid these issues, the purchase should have been made with a credit card and the bank account should have had overdraft protection---chalk it up to a lesson learned.

[454bug]

I feel for your situation but I'm torn to think if something was done wrong or not... In my particular case, I try to not order parts until I have the money and I like to pay 100% up front so there's no excuses in slowing down the process... I would have been stoked that they were done early! That rarely happens... Most suppliers want to make their customers happy and sometimes promise an unrealistic ship date that usually does more damage then good when they can't meet the promised date... At least this sponsor was shooting straight with you. I totally understand paying 1/2 and saving up the rest.

I'm sure it was an oversight by someone in not calling you prior to making the charge. I'm sure an apology for making a mistake and maybe an offer of cutting you a better deal on a future purchase to make it up to you would be in order... I have heard that EXACT same statement of having to get the number from you again in the future because they don't hold on to your number for security reasons. I would be more upset about your card number being on some file in their office where someone else could steal the number and do worst things with it!

A lot of other industries don't charge your credit card at all until your item ships. That's how the mega catalog companies (Summit, Jeg's) do it. But, when possible, I like to support the Ma & Pa businesses who live this hobby just like we do. For cash flow reasons, they need to get money upfront to help bankroll their business.

But, all this said, just for common courtesy and good customer relations it should be a normal process to call PRIOR to making the credit charge!

[Vegas69]

I've mad a mistake or two in my 33 years, you? Maybe they forgot, or you misunderstood. I don't think it's that big a deal. Let's see those wheels already.

[dadto2jays]

Courtesy phone call "Hey your wheels are finished and ready to ship"
Next time use credit card if you have one if not be clear when you place the order about when to charge....post some picts of the wheels

[SR71]

I didn't use a credit card because I pay as I go too. I don't even own a credit card. it's too easy to get into big trouble with them. I learned that lesson the hard way many years ago. it took me awhile to get out of that mess and I said never again.

my gf did NOT authorize a second debt on her card. hers is the one they pulled it from since it was the only one they had.

and no bill, I did not expect them to hold anything. since the money was being pulled 2 weeks early, I expected a phone call so I could take 30 seconds to make sure that I had everything covered. and if not to transfer some more money into the account. I keep an emergency fund that I could have pulled the money out of at ANY time, but I TRY not to dip into that unless absolutely unavoidable...and did you miss the point that our 17yr old daughter has a card on the account too? we all know that kids NEVER spend money that they shouldn't. that's why I keep my money that is already earmarked in a seperate account.

we do have overdraft protection on the account. but it does not cover debits, only checks. that's all my bank offers.

the customer service from said company has been great. nothing at all could have made it better right up to the point that they pulled the money without notice.

[mc84_zz4]

One last thing: make sure to sweet talk your bank to not reporting x amount of bounced payments, due to a 'misunderstanding' with a vendor. That way it does not come back on your credit report.
Post up some wheel pics when you get them.

[novanutcase]

I'm gonna agree with the OP on this one.

I don't care HOW busy you are. If you tell them you're going to call prior to hitting their card/account then that's what needs to happen. The fact that he handles his finances in whatever way he does is irrelevant. The vendor did not live up to their part of the bargain. Granted, to many it would seem like a minor thing but for someone like the OP every penny counts and to get hit for an additional amount because the vendor didn't do what they said they would would have me on the phone asking for them to cover the charges.

When I start a new business the first thing I do is set up a checking and savings account and only transfer as much as need be into the checking account to cover the bills that I am paying for. Any overdraft will mean that there is someone pulling money out without your authorization. If you dump all your money into an accessible account like that you leave yourself open to check fraud.

I do this because I've had it happen several times. Trying to get the money back is as fun as trying to get the government to refund you money.

John

[SR71]

Hey, wait a minute. I thought you were looking for other opinions. Why the slam when you get an opinion that you don't seem to like?

jp

you will always get opinions that you don't like. that is the nature of opinions.

[SR71]

I was also told that I would have tracking info today.....still no info.

[GeoffP]

There is one other thing to take into consideration that I think most everyone is missing: If the vendor was only authorized to charge the 50% deposit, then the second charge violates the Payment Card Industry's (or PCI) rules and regulations regarding authorized vs. unauthorized charges. The rules clearly state that you cannot charge more than what is authorized during a transaction even if that transaction leaves a balance due. The remaining balance MUST be authorized prior to charging another transaction to the card.

While it is the card holder's word against the vendor's should a complaint or charge back result. In most cases I've seen, the card issuing bank typically sides with the card holder. The only time I have seen the bank side with the "vendor" is when there were multiple charge backs on the card holder account. Because of this, it can be a very dangerous game for a vendor to charge someones card without an authorization from the card holder. They could easily be stuck with no money and no product and a long road ahead to get one or the other back.

I'm not even going to get into the issue of keeping credit card numbers on file. That's an animal unto itself and is a VERY dangerous practice for any company that accepts cards (credit or debit) as payment. Search up PCI Compliance and TJ Maxx for more on this if you're interested in a boring but important read. You'll get the gist of what I'm saying once you read up a little bit. Note that PCI Compliance may not even apply to this particular case - it depends on the vendors size and volume along with a few other criteria.

I hope this sheds a little light on the subject that both parties need to be careful in any card transaction. For those wondering where I get my info from, I work in the electric industry for an electric coop as a mid-level exec. I have to deal with this kind of stuff on occasion and have seen situations where we were in the right and still the issuing bank sided with the card holder, leaving the coop without payment.

Last thing - It is not my intention to stir this pot, only to share my meager knowledge on the subject. I'm sure not siding with either party since no one knows the actual facts aside from them. I hope this will help prevent something like this from happening in the future.

[SR71]

our bank asked if she wanted to dispute the charge and put a stop on it. she said no.

the courtesy of a ten second phone call would have prevented this and made one hell of a happy customer. the conversation would have went like this.....

sponsor- "Tom, your wheels are ready and two weeks early at that. we are going to debit your account and ship them out."

me- "AWESOME, you guys are the greatest. go ahead and charge the account."

then I hang up the phone and call Christy....

me- "the wheels are done. transfer enough out of my account to cover them."

and then I would have been on here posting up how great they were.

[SR71]

this is one of those things that separates the "haves" from the "have nots".
some of us don't have bucket loads of money just sitting around or a credit card to use for things like this, so everything is a "pay as you go" kind of deal.
as a fellow "have not" myself, i would be really pissed if i was billed when i wasn't supposed to be.
going by what was said here, when they took the order i'm sure they could have made a note on the computer to call when the order was done before charging the remaining balance and shipping it out. i know that would be one phone call i'd love to get, and would have the money ready to be put into the proper account immediately so i could pay for and get my new wheels.
plus, it would give me an actual timeframe to wait for the big brown truck to show up so i could sign for it in person and not come home to an expensive looking pile of cardboard boxes sitting on my front porch just begging for someone to steal them..

you know exactly where I'm coming from. :cheers:

[41565 chevelle]

Congrats on the wheels being done early,,, go buy a Lottery ticket now cause you are the luckiest guy on the site..

My opinion? Yeah, they owed you a call, I get it. I am a cash guy too, my build takes a little longer but I am not gonna break the bank to get it done. I understand your frustration, however, I get that it was most likely an oversite on the vendors part. Im sure they were equally as stoked they got custom wheels early!! Im sure that has not happened to them too often.

My suggestion is to get them to kick in some free stuff to off set your check fees. Lug nuts, center caps, valve stems, t-shirts or maybe they have other items just to show good faith.

Its all Karma, what comes around goes around! Again congrats on wheels early and props to the dealer for getting them to you.... PICS!!!

[SR71]

I don't have wheels yet. my account was debited on monday and the money cleared my account and bounced stuff on tues at midnight. when I called wed night to confirm that they were the ones who debited my account, I was told that the wheels would ship out tomorrow(thurs) and that I would be sent tracking info. well, no info today.

[MrQuick]

I try to make a habit of not spending money I don't have.

I think if you have gave the vendor a heads up not to charge the balance without notification and he did anyways then you'd be in the right. I'd have to side with the vendor on this. Its a business transaction, you ordered a product, left a down and the vendor produced a product and charged the balance of the job.
sorry, but its a big problem with this country.
Vince

[SixD7]

I didn't read all the posts but it seems the best solution is explain to the vendor how their lack of service affected you monetarily and ask them to cover the shipping or something like that.

Also contact the bank explain to them and ask them to waive the fees. As long as your a good customer & don't overdraft on a regular basis the bank should oblige.

Between the two you should be able to get your unexpected & additional charges covered.

[ZZ427]

If there was an "understanding" they definitely owed you a phone call "period" , obviously their customer service is not up to par.

[CarlC]

I have now learned way more about about the personal money habits of a family than I ever wanted to know about.

[parsonsj]

you will always get opinions that you don't like. that is the nature of opinions.Exactly. Especially when you ask for them. So ease up when they disagree with what you wanted to hear.

jp

[silver69camaro]

We don't charge a customer's card before we get authorization, and I think that's a necessary business practice.

But, on the other hand, it's your responsibility to make sure you have funds in your account for anything that might happen, period. I think the blame gets split here.

[John Wright]

I'm gonna side with the business on this one...sorry, but if you make any transactions, at least have enough in there in case the transaction goes through(whether you're ready or not)

.....If my bank account didn't have the funds, I would have placed the order on my CC instead of my debit, so that what happened to you could not happen to me. Then I could pay the CC off when the bill came at a later date and the funds were available.

Seriously, I understand your position and I'm one of those guys without alot of extra cash laying around, but I am aware that if my debit card can be hit at any time by an outstanding order, I need the money in there to cover it.

[Clean Cut Creations]

A call to inform you would have been nice, but since some companies are so big, not always does the accounts recievable department know anything about the order except that they need to collect a debt when an order is processed.

[Fesler built]

As a Vendor they should have called to let you know they needed payment. We will only charge you what we tell you we are going to charge. If we are early on parts we will call you to get payment on wheels we charge 100% up front because once you order them they are yours. But you know up front what we are doing. Bottom line is they should have called and not just charged you as we all know how hard these times are for everyone and some people need to move funds around to buy things.

:postpics:

[406 Q-ship]

Sorry but the vendor should have called to notify the customer. They told him they would call before charging the card again, and it is smart business practice. Now the vendor has charge this customers debit card screwing him with bounced checks on Monday and did not have the wheels shipped on Tuesday???? They are shipping on Thursday, the vendor should have called on Tuesday to notify that they would be charging the debit card on Wednesday to ship on Thursday. It is great that this vendor is on the ball with order filling and even getting done early, but their billing department needs to get on track. I would be pissed too.

[SR71]

when I made the down payment, I was emailed an invoice that evening showing the order, the down payment and the balance. since I was charged for the balance monday, I have yet to see an invoice showing payment in full. even that would have prevented all of this.

still no tracking info.

[Ryne@SchwartzPerformance]

I can see both sides on this very well, being the sales guy for a business and a tuner at the same time.

As a practice we charge a 50% down payment on our chassis orders, just like this wheel company does. It gives us some assurance that your going to pay for the goods when completed. We always call before we charge the remaining balance though, just in case they want to use a different card and because we don't keep card numbers, they get shredded immediately if we take any.

This is also why we try and use PayPal a lot. Just one more level of security for everyone involved.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We are not the vendor. I can see both sides here. These balance charges happen to us everyday for 1000s of dollars.

If this is a direct deal with a wheel company I know of at least 3 wheels companies that have you sign off on the build specs on the wheels and authorize the balance charge upon completion. In other words, with out warning. It is a form you sign. Some of those companies actually capture the money with a authorization that takes the money from us but does not give it to them. If you signed one of these forms, then they had the right to do it.

For us, we DO NOT keep cards on file unless it is specifically requested by the customer because he is making multiple purchases. I think we have maybe 10 cards on file and they are heavily encoded to avoid the possibility of slipping into the wrong hands.

When we do a wheel order that is a 50 / 50 wheel deal, we always have the manufacturer give us a heads up when they are shipping and call the customer to run the second charge. 99% of the time asking for the card number they want to use.

[Steve1968LS2]

I don't think anyone here is "in the wrong"

Both sides just had different expectations.

The buyer expected a phone call before the final billing

The vendor expected final payment on shipment and most likely thought the customer would be happy to get thier product early.

That said, the buyer should have asked the vendor to call first before doing the final charge. After all, how are they to know?

So, I would be ticked it happened, not not ticked at the vendor.

[John Wright]

On the other side of this.....I've had vendors hold checks and not cash them for a really long time....and that can be just as bad.

I guess good communication is the key to happy transactions regardless of which side of the purchase you are on.

[paul67]

It does not help that he has not been told if there on there way ,but they were quick enough to take the cash,because at the moment he only has there word that they are finished and it's been nearly a week, be interesting when gets them what the post date was .

[FirstGenZq8]

IMO if you authorized ONLY the 50 percent prepayment, then the vendor is at fault.

a question to the vendors that have posted thus far: do you have a policy in writing concerning your card charging procedures? if not, will you whip one up after reading this thread?

[SR71]

I talked to the vendor this morning. there was a single letter mistake made when my email address was put into the file. I now have my invoice......I am still waiting on tracking info.

[ProdigyCustoms]

a question to the vendors that have posted thus far: do you have a policy in writing concerning your card charging procedures? if not, will you whip one up after reading this thread?

As for us, we do not keep cards on file, so not a issue here. For the select few that realy want us too, we call first or they send a note tell us to hit it. No need to write policy for that.

Ans like I said, the wheels companies that do this that I know of have a pre authorization forms.

[speedshftr]

i paid in full for my wheels upfront without a credit card.it was a instant bank transfer.took a while to save that cash.my wheels still took over ten weeks /lol

i think the vendor should of courtesy called the client and asked how they wanted to pay final balance before shipment.mabey the vendor should post up.
ive learned there are three sides to every story.your side,my side, and the truth.just for the record i do love my wheels though

[68 vertybird]

Same thing happened to me from a vendor on this site. Luckily I had the $ in my account. As a business owner myself I would NEVER run a card without first contacting the buyer, unless I had written authorization to do so. If that is the norm with wheel companies, they should seriously think about revising some of their business practices. A simple phone call or a written authorization is a pretty thing to do.

[trex1270]

Lets blame Bush...

[1bad78zam]

I want to know what brand wheels they are, so I can get mine in four weeks also!!:cool:

[SR71]

Rushforth. Jason Rushforth is THE man.

[speedshftr]

ive chatted with jason a time or 2.he is a stand up guy.his wheels are top notch and im sure this is just a misunderstanding.:pat:

[SR71]

ive chatted with jason a time or 2.he is a stand up guy.his wheels are top notch and im sure this is just a misunderstanding.:pat:

you are absolutely correct that Jason is a stand up guy....it's not Jason that I am dealing with.

[speedshftr]

well then confirm my suspicion

[SR71]

it looks like we are about to get this resolved. they are doing their best to get things taken care of.

[Vegas69]

You are a DRAMA QUEEN.

[MonzaRacer]

OK honestly, most times the banks, with a phone call from the vendor will waive fees if they say , "hey , look, we did this transaction early and missed the courtesy call to customer to alert them,,," and even help you get the NSFs paid explaining it was a "banking" issue.
I just had that happen on a set of heads I ordered or a guy, yeah still running everything through my account, but anyway,,,.
I had my day job paycheck bounce from 3 weeks ago today, last friday was payday again and my first check was redeposited and put on 7 day hold, so last week i get paid, that check goes towards negative balance from 3 weeks ago. Now I am giving all my bill collectors the, "hey my paycheck bounced,,," it SUCKS .
And even if SSR71 had the cash if he had been hit like I was WITH extra cash in the bank the wheels would have bounced instead, and then where would he have been.
I think, opinion, that as long as it all gets worked out to OP satisfaction, All Jason would have to do is make sure his billing staff has new rule, can for customer authorization to bill, UNLESS given in prior conversation and written and signed/initialed by sales person and co signed by boss so 2 people know, OK go ahead and bill without a courtesy call. Simple.
If no double initial with bill upon completion no followup call needed, then both parties will never have issue.
LEsson learned on both sides.
Now I have Woodforest bank and they are awesome, they have forgiven od fees when I had bills set up on check and not debit, as debits sit in a pending column till the electronic magic happens, but paper checks get sucked out when presented.
Kind of think thats why my employer has us all going to direct deposit. money sits in account, if its over specific amount the bank allows an interest on all deposits even if its payroll account.
My old credit union did this. I would get 1099 every year for like $5ish bucks or so.
again I would almost chalk it up to ooppss, sorry, but on both sides and lets see what we can do to make it not happen again and make each other happy from lesson learned.
But at least you got your Rushforths early.
NOW PICS "insert silverware thumping on table sound" ASAP biotch, kidding,,,,but no really we need pics like as soon as you get then up wrapped, drooled all over, re polished, drooled all over and re re polished and pics taken,,,,oh and no pics of you dry humping them either.

[John Wright]

Lets blame Bush...LMBO.....<picking self up off the floor>

[SR71]

I think, opinion, that as long as it all gets worked out to OP satisfaction, All Jason would have to do is make sure his billing staff has new rule, can for customer authorization to bill, UNLESS given in prior conversation and written and signed/initialed by sales person and co signed by boss so 2 people know, OK go ahead and bill without a courtesy call. Simple.
If no double initial with bill upon completion no followup call needed, then both parties will never have issue.
LEsson learned on both sides.
Now I have Woodforest bank and they are awesome, they have forgiven od fees when I had bills set up on check and not debit, as debits sit in a pending column till the electronic magic happens, but paper checks get sucked out when presented.
Kind of think thats why my employer has us all going to direct deposit. money sits in account, if its over specific amount the bank allows an interest on all deposits even if its payroll account.
My old credit union did this. I would get 1099 every year for like $5ish bucks or so.
again I would almost chalk it up to ooppss, sorry, but on both sides and lets see what we can do to make it not happen again and make each other happy from lesson learned.
But at least you got your Rushforths early.
NOW PICS "insert silverware thumping on table sound" ASAP biotch, kidding,,,,but no really we need pics like as soon as you get then up wrapped, drooled all over, re polished, drooled all over and re re polished and pics taken,,,,oh and no pics of you dry humping them either.

again, Jason had NOTHING to do with this. it was a dealer.

my wheels were actually shipped out yesterday(friday) evening. I hope to have them by this time next week.


You are a DRAMA QUEEN.

why am I a drama queen? because I asked for opinions about what happened and if others would have felt the same way? it looks like about half here feel the same way that I do about what happened. and most importantly, ever vendor that posted up here agreed that I should have been contacted.

[SR71]

it looks like things have been resolved as well as possible at this point. thanks for all of the opinions and input. I really appreciate everyone who took the time to respond....even if your views didn't agree with mine.

[speedshftr]

im still interested in who the vendor was.you have sparked alot of couriosity at this point.just finish the story.no drama just give the whole story not bits:nopity:

[TonyHuntimer]

im still interested in who the vendor was.you have sparked alot of couriosity at this point.just finish the story.no drama just give the whole story not bits:nopity:

Stepping out of my Moderator shoes and into my consumer shoes.

SR71 has given a lot of details...in fact...he's given every tiny detail except the vendor. We can all learn a little bit about ordering parts, the manufacturing process, and the business side of the situation from this thread without bringing the vendors name it. Not doing so has shown class on SR71's part.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

[MuscleRodz]

im still interested in who the vendor was.you have sparked alot of couriosity at this point.just finish the story.no drama just give the whole story not bits:nopity:real simple to figure out with search function if it is that important

[speedshftr]

it was posted in a open forum so i thought i would ask.next time ill just skip the questions .my wheels are here and i guess that all i should be concerned with.:injured:

[SR71]

I didn't post the vendor's name because it wasn't my intention to throw anyone under the bus. sometimes crap just happens, but they are still good people to deal with.

my hat is off to Jason Rushforth and Rushforth wheels. they are the ones who got my wheels done ahead of schedule. and before I ever posted up what brand the wheels were, Jason sent me a pm asking if they were his wheels. even though I purchased my wheels from a dealer and not directly from him, I was still a Rushforth customer and he wanted to be sure that my experience was a positive one. NOW THAT IS CUSTOMER SERVICE! Jason is a class act and I don't want anyone to think that he had anything to do with the problems that I have had.

unless something flares up, I am done with this thread. the tracking info says that I should have my wheels thursday. I'm ready to put all of this behind me and get a set of badass rushforth wheels on my car.

thanks all. :cheers:

[Bill Howell]

OK, as per the OPs post above, I think we can stick a fork in this thread cause it seems to be done.