off topic, NEED ADVICE, head on collision, ins. co. not doing a thing.

[chevyhector]

Hey guys, I have to vent!!! I was involved in a head on collision on 06/23/2010 (I was not at fault; other driver crossed onto my lane traveling in the opposite direction) AS of today 07/28/2010 nothing has been done to settle my claim ! I keep getting the run around from both sides, even though the other drivers ins. Co. has accepted 100% fault. I have run out of my rental car coverage and I do not have a second car to drive. My fear is that I will be forced to drive my Medusa every day until my claim gets settled, F**K !!! I really don’t want to do that.
I would appreciate any advice that YOU (my buds) might have for me ! I’ve never had to deal with this type of matter, because I’ve never be in an accident that had my car totaled. PLEASE HELP A BROTHER OUT!

Thanks n God Bless
Hec

[jy211]

If the other's person insurance company is covering the accident, then they need to cover your rental car COMPLETELY. Do you have names and phone numbers of their claim adjusters?

[chevyhector]

I do have the claims adjusters name and number, but he told me that they can only reimburse me the rental cost after the claim is settled. Should I demand that they get me a rental?

[jy211]

in short YES. Also if you have involved your insurance, THEY should be demanding repayment of rental coverage for you.

Start calling. Squeeky wheel get the grease. :bicycle:


California

California Department of Insurance
Consumer Services Division
300 S. Spring St., South Tower
Los Angeles, CA 90013
213-897-8921
Toll free: 1-800-927-4357 (CA)
TTY: 1-800-482-4833
www.insurance.ca.gov

[chevyhector]

At what point should i cunsult a lawyer?

[jy211]

who is your insurance carrier?

Who is the other person's carrier?

[Rhino]

As soon as you lawyer up, I would bet they go quiet while they get their ducks in a row. I would only do that once they stop taking your call.

I would talk to both insurance companies again, get names, numbers, a plan of action with a solid date to follow back up on any questions. They'll drag their feet as long as you let them. With that said, I'd be making regular (daily) calls to those involved until I started seeing some action.

[Payton King]

The rental car should be direct billed to the other guys insurance company. Once you reach an agreement on the value of the vehicle, they normally will cut rental coverage off after you get the check...some will go an extra 3 days.

I assume that you started paying the rental out of pocket? They should reimburse you for the amount spent and take over the cost.

You did not state anything about the amount offered for your vehicle so I assume you are good with the figure they came up with? Any injuries? If so they can be settled outside the property damage claim.

A claim is worth what a claim is worth. If you car is worth $13,000 and you get a lawyer involved, they will still only pay you $13,000 for the car but he will get his 20 or 30 percent out of the $13,000.

Make sense?

[TonyL]

just fyi, my buddy at work got in a head on crash, not his fault, the other driver was drunk and there were lots of witnesses and 911 calls, and a cop even witnessed the accident.

It took him a year and three weeks to see a check.

[chevyhector]

my ins.co. Is Infinity, adjusters name is Art Diaz. the other ins.co. Is universal casualty company out of Saint Paul, Minnesota, adjusters name is Jack Downey. Can you help me out?



who is your insurance carrier?

Who is the other person's carrier?

[chevyhector]

They have reached a payout amount, but my ins. Co.will only cover "the value" of my car. I would be left with a balance of like $5000 to my finance co. sucks huh?

I did sustain injuries, and to top it off my ins. co. has never asked me if I'm still injured! What should I do in this case?

Who should I call for rental coverage? because yes I have been paying out of pocket for the rental.

Thank you


The rental car should be direct billed to the other guys insurance company. Once you reach an agreement on the value of the vehicle, they normally will cut rental coverage off after you get the check...some will go an extra 3 days.

I assume that you started paying the rental out of pocket? They should reimburse you for the amount spirt and take over the cost.

You did not state anything about the amount offered for your vehicle so I assume you are good with the figure they came up with? Any injuries? If so they can be settled outside the property damage cham.

A claim is worth what a claim is worth. If you car is worth $13,000 and you get a lawyer involved, they will still only pay you $13,000 for the car but he will get his 20 or 30 percent out of the $13,000.

Make sense?

[trex1270]

Lawyer up...also, maybe get your finanace company involved. I have something called gap on my loan. If the car gets damaged and I owe more then settlement, it makes up the rest. It was like 10 bucks a month more on the note..

[elitecustombody]

get a lawyer, call your state insurance commissioner, if the other person was at fault, you won't have to come up with $5000 balance, only if you were at fault and had no "gap insurance", that's what it's called FYI, if you were in Florida, I'd get you to the right people to handle your case and you'd get some $$ for your injury. Good luck

[chevyhector]

Do you know anybody in California that can help me?


get a lawyer, call your state insurance commissioner, if the other person was at fault, you won't have to come up with $5000 balance, only if you were at fault and had no "gap insurance", that's what it's called FYI, if you were in Florida, I'd get you to the right people to handle your case and you'd get some $$ for your injury. Good luck

[DarkBuddha]

Never ever take their first offer. Counter-offer and if they're not responsive, get a lawyer. My father in-law was t-boned by an old guy running a light. The accident was bad enough to cause my father in-law nerve damage, put him on permanent disability, and resulted in him having to close his business. The insurance companies made some BS offers, he lawyer'd up and decided to sue. The day before they were to go to court, a reasonable settlement was finally offered... it was 2 years after the accident. :(

[chevyhector]

Damn! two years huh? I dont think I can deal without a primary vehicle for two years ! Being a single dad is tough and expensive !



Never ever take their first offer. Counter-offer and if they're not responsive, get a lawyer. My father in-law was t-boned by an old guy running a light. The accident was bad enough to cause my father in-law nerve damage, put him on permanent disability, and resulted in him having to close his business. The insurance companies made some BS offers, he lawyer'd up and decided to sue. The day before they were to go to court, a reasonable settlement was finally offered... it was 2 years after the accident. :(

[Rick D]

my ins.co. Is Infinity, adjusters name is Art Diaz. the other ins.co. Is universal casualty company out of Saint Paul, Minnesota, adjusters name is Jack Downey. Can you help me out?

Ok this is your first and biggest problem, Uniiversal Casualty is the WORST sub standard ins company that sells ins. First do a search about them and you will see that in alot of states they can't even sell ins. Not sure in your state but here in ILL they write their estimates at $18.00 per repair hour, average rate in ILL is $46.00 per hr. If you lawer up they will stop all contact with you and will let the courts do the rest (until the day before the court call then they will pay you the orginal offer). Not sure how the laws read in your state but here in ILL they only have to pay what your car is worth NOT what you owe on it. It doesn't matter who was at fault. This is the same with our old cars and how much they are ins for, if you have just a normal policy they will pay blue book and thats it, works the same with this. Even if Statefarm ins was the ins company that had the other guy insured they still would only pay you what the book value is and thats it. maybe if you had something unique and could show that some others have sold for this amount than may they would give you more, but in this case you bought a car worth X dollars and now it is worth Y dollars the problem is your car depreciated faster than you payed it off. As for the rental you may submit the bill but again they will only pay you what they pay for a rental. If you went and got a car for say $40.00 dollars a day they will only pay you their rates whitch would most likely be half of that. As for medical bills here in ILL you can get up to 3 times what they where but that is after you get a lawer and he will take 1/3 of that and then you have to pay back your health ins company if they paid any of your medical bills. My wife was in an accident years ago and broke her leg in 6 places 6 years later she got here settlement, and she was a passanger in the car so there was no way she could be held at fault be either ins company. WOW that was a mouth full hope some of this helps you.

[chevyhector]

Dang guys ! I have a bad feeling that I'm gonna have to lawyer up! I hope that I can still get good advice from you guys! Thanks

[SLO_Z28]

Ok this is your first and biggest problem, Uniiversal Casualty is the WORST sub standard ins company that sells ins. First do a search about them and you will see that in alot of states they can't even sell ins. Not sure in your state but here in ILL they write their estimates at $18.00 per repair hour, average rate in ILL is $46.00 per hr. If you lawer up they will stop all contact with you and will let the courts do the rest (until the day before the court call then they will pay you the orginal offer). Not sure how the laws read in your state but here in ILL they only have to pay what your car is worth NOT what you owe on it. It doesn't matter who was at fault. This is the same with our old cars and how much they are ins for, if you have just a normal policy they will pay blue book and thats it, works the same with this. Even if Statefarm ins was the ins company that had the other guy insured they still would only pay you what the book value is and thats it. maybe if you had something unique and could show that some others have sold for this amount than may they would give you more, but in this case you bought a car worth X dollars and now it is worth Y dollars the problem is your car depreciated faster than you payed it off. As for the rental you may submit the bill but again they will only pay you what they pay for a rental. If you went and got a car for say $40.00 dollars a day they will only pay you their rates whitch would most likely be half of that. As for medical bills here in ILL you can get up to 3 times what they where but that is after you get a lawer and he will take 1/3 of that and then you have to pay back your health ins company if they paid any of your medical bills. My wife was in an accident years ago and broke her leg in 6 places 6 years later she got here settlement, and she was a passanger in the car so there was no way she could be held at fault be either ins company. WOW that was a mouth full hope some of this helps you.
^Exactly right.

You are only entitled to the current value of your car at the time hit, not what you owe.

Universal Casualty took 32 months to pay back MY insurance to fix my truck ($2000), and pay my medical bills(I broke my window with my head). Terrible terrible company.

GET A LAWYER AND SEE THE DOCTOR REGULARLY! I got a large settlement out of mine....eventually.

[WS6]

get a lawyer if his company is as bad as it appears to me. You've got a hard fight on your hands and you won't be able to do this without a professional. get a good lawyer now.

[chevyhector]

Do any of you guys know of a good lawyer in Los Angeles?

[paul67]

Is there not a lawyer connected to your insurance company as it's in there interest to get the money back,its an extra payment over-here in the UK.

[ArtosDracon]

Glad I found this thread, my insurance guy just set me up with universal on my house, getting that fixed today!

For your situation Hector, I hate to say it, but it sounds like it's time to lawyer up, if you have record that the other insurance company or other driver has all ready admitted fault, any good lawyer is going to jump at the case, because they know they're getting paid, and by the other insurance company when it goes to court. Don't agree to anything with the other insurance company, and let your lawyer do the talking, if you agree to a number, they can cut you that check any time they want, right up to the day before court, then they can walk in and say it's been payed per your agreement and your case disappears and you can't get your legal fees covered.

[jy211]

yup time to bring a lawyer in. But yes, never accept first offer.

Your insurance should be able to suggest a lawyer of theirs

[ModernMuseum]

If you have a lot of money in parts in your car, your vehicle is probably under-valued and you won't get that money back.

When the crack-head that totaled my 69 firebird convertible rear-ended me, it was only through hell and high water that we extracted the settlement from State Farm. I had Farmer's at the time. We had something like 15K in parts alone in the car. Over the course of a year, they made us fax them all the receipts for the car, with one recipet taped on a single page. Can you imagine how long this would take? A year! Actually, I think it took more like 18 months.

In the end, they only ended up giving us like $7k for the car. We probably should have got a lawyer, but we were so burned out by the time they cut us the check that we called it a loss, i.e. lesson learned. That's what they do: they'll drag their feet until the last minute and low ball you. It happened when I crashed a 2009 Triumph Speed Triple as well.

Life lesson learned: get a good insurance policy, the best you can afford, if you value your car.

[ArtosDracon]

Slowly but surely agreed value insurance is picking up steam for this exact reason, regular insurance companies have no idea about what goes into these cars, in terms of cost or time. I highely suggest at least looking into it for any custom vehicle.

[Steve1968LS2]

Also, California has a state insurance commisioner.. contact thier office.

You might have to go the lawyer route.. do you have your attemps to work this out well documented?

[DarkBuddha]

Damn! two years huh? I dont think I can deal without a primary vehicle for two years ! Being a single dad is tough and expensive !
Yeah, that sucks... but the settlement they eventually got helped make it worthwhile in the end... even after lawyers fees. I was never told the exact number, but based on some astute observation and a bit of math, it was likely in excess of $300K.

[eburke]

We had the same situation with my son being in an accident and the rental car having to be turned in. We ended up getting a lawyer as he suffered some lug issues due to the air bag deploying and inhaling the gas. Anyway, as for the loss of money on your car and additional rental car expenses check and see if you could take them to small claims court to recoup some money it's not that expensive in North Carolina it's only around $50.00.

[chevyhector]

I don’t know if my ins. co. has a lawyer available for me??? Since yesterday's eye opener i have consulted an attorney, he has jumped on my case and wants to represent me. What should i look out for when it comes to dealing with an attorney?


Is there not a lawyer connected to your insurance company as it's in there interest to get the money back,its an extra payment over-here in the UK.

[chevyhector]

hey Steve,

I will have to look for that info (Cal State Ins. Commisioner). I have notes and CHP reports and contat info on both sides, I have been keeping (what I think) good notes.

Thanks



Also, California has a state insurance commisioner.. contact thier office.

You might have to go the lawyer route.. do you have your attemps to work this out well documented?

[chevyhector]

I'm very sorry for what happened to your son, i hope he's ok now. I would live to take this to small claims, but that would mean time away from work. Being a single dad, I can’t afford to miss work. This is why I’m leaning more towards the legal representation route.


We had the same situation with my son being in an accident and the rental car having to be turned in. We ended up getting a lawyer as he suffered some lug issues due to the air bag deploying and inhaling the gas. Anyway, as for the loss of money on your car and additional rental car expenses check and see if you could take them to small claims court to recoup some money it's not that expensive in North Carolina it's only around $50.00.

[ironworks]

Just make sure you get the meanest unfriendly jack ass attorney possible. Nice ones don't do much. I was in an accident 10 years ago and got screwed by a lazy nice lawyer. Cases like these are easy money for them, but they don't care if you made whole as long as they get PAID....

Good luck

[chevyhector]

LMAO !!! I will have to look in the yellow pages and look at their pics! If he or she looks mean, their hired !

Keep the advice coming, i need all the help I can get!

Thanks


Just make sure you get the meanest unfriendly jack ass attorney possible. Nice ones don't do much. I was in an accident 10 years ago and got screwed by a lazy nice lawyer. Cases like these are easy money for them, but they don't care if you made whole as long as they get PAID....

Good luck

[Boatmark]

Sorry, I guess this got a little long - - -- -

This will probably get the arrows in the air, but I used to be an insurance adjuster, so maybe I can offer a perspective. I did yachts, not cars, but the legal principles are generally the same.

Some of the facts are missing here. You never said what your injuries were. That can have an effect on how it is handled. In general terms, the property loss should on a total loss should be done in 30 days, and can be done separately from the liability loss. Unfortunately, the car is worth book value to your carrier. To the other carrier it is worth book, but if it is heavily documented, some additional value might negotiable.

Part of the hold up here is just how it works. In this situation, your carrier should pay for the car, and get it back from the other carrier. It is called subrogation. But they know they will have to chase the money for a year, so a less than ethical company will drag it out in hopes the other carrier will get around to it, and they can stay out of it.

The other carrier is not in any hurry, because if they think they are going to have to negotiate a liability loss with you, the more up against the wall you are, the more easily you will sign the release and go away.

As for the liablity loss, some people have an idea that if they are not at fault, get a lawyer and someone will pay. Not so fast. What they are paying for are your damages. How were you damaged, and what is your loss. Lost a car, easy, pay for the car. Injured, easy, pay the medical bills. Expenses (rental car etc.) easy, pay it. Some will pay expenses like rentals ahead, others not until there is a settlement and a signed release. It just depends on internal company policy.

Now we come to the tricky part. What are your damages beyond that, and are they worth something. A little something for your time and trouble, ok. Notice I said little. Real money comes from real damages. Was someone disabled? Permanently scarred? Prevented from earning a living? See my point . . . the policy will pay under the law for real value. Does the claim have real value.

You can go the lawyer route, but unless you have real damages, that isn't always the best route. A claim over a 10k car and some expenses will never see a courtroom. You are paying him to rattle cages and negotiate a deal you can do yourself. I have seen the figure 20-30% batted around this thread. Think again. The going rate is 40% + expenses. It is a no cure, no pay relationship - he only gets a percentage of the recovery. But that is any recovery. He is going to get 40 cents of every dollar, and probably another 10 cents of it for expenses. Do the math and make sure your damages warrant giving away that much of your recovery.

Lean on the adjuster from your company. Then on his supervisor. Make it clear that without prompt satisfaction you intend to file a complaint with the state insurance commissioner. And if needed, don't hesitate to do it. Believe me, a valid insurance commisioner complaint will keep a claims manager awake at night. A screaming obnoxious lawyer, well, no. A senior level adjuster may have legal representation on 35% of his files. It's just part of the game.

*** Quick note about the real life of an insurance adjuster.
They are licensed by the state. You cannot work without the license, and in most states they are tough to get. How they adjust and settle claims is set forth in legal stone. There really isn't as much gray area as the public thinks. I dealt with million dollar yachts, but never saw a claim worth risking my license over.

But although I have to follow the law, and the policy to the letter of the law, I don't have to make it easy. Your adjuster probably has 200 active claim files on his desk. Think about that number. Scream, yell, curse, threaten to call your attorney in a situation that doesn't warrant it, or all of the above . . . you go to the bottom of the pile. Or you get to jump through hoops of documentation to the letter of the law, when I can go easier . . .

People would never believe this, but the most common thing that slows down a claim is the insured, or his chosen repair facility not providing documents.

[mpozzi]

Your lawyer will most likely take a percentage of your settlement. There's two parts ... the bodily injury (medical) and then the material damage (car). Each can be settled separately without affecting the other.

Mary Pozzi

[Zee]

Lean on the adjuster from your company. Then on his supervisor. Make it clear that without prompt satisfaction you intend to file a complaint with the state insurance commissioner. And if needed, don't hesitate to do it. Believe me, a valid insurance commisioner complaint will keep a claims manager awake at night. A screaming obnoxious lawyer, well, no. A senior level adjuster may have legal representation on 35% of his files. It's just part of the game.

*** Quick note about the real life of an insurance adjuster.
They are licensed by the state. You cannot work without the license, and in most states they are tough to get. How they adjust and settle claims is set forth in legal stone. There really isn't as much gray area as the public thinks. I dealt with million dollar yachts, but never saw a claim worth risking my license over.

But although I have to follow the law, and the policy to the letter of the law, I don't have to make it easy. Your adjuster probably has 200 active claim files on his desk. Think about that number. Scream, yell, curse, threaten to call your attorney in a situation that doesn't warrant it, or all of the above . . . you go to the bottom of the pile. Or you get to jump through hoops of documentation to the letter of the law, when I can go easier . . .

People would never believe this, but the most common thing that slows down a claim is the insured, or his chosen repair facility not providing documents.


This is 100% accurate advice. A department of insurance complaint is taken very seriously at nearly all carriers. Don't threaten it, pull the trigger and do it. Most DOI's you can make a complaint on line. I don't know if even that will move Universal but it is way, way more likely than a lawyer to get some action going on your file.

The dirty secret at substandard insurers is that they are actually owned by lawyers. When you you get fed up with the BS and file your lawsuit against them....guess who they hire to defend their insured? Yep, themselves and they make way more money off that end than they do on premium. They only write minimum policies so their exposure is limited while the fees they can charge the company is not. That is why you don't see a settlement until the case is on the steps of the courtroom. Its all about the fees. Of couse, the higher the fees, the more expense gets written off for the insurer so they don't show a profit on the insurance company and minimze their tax burden. The insurance company effectively becomes a means to generate business for the law firm and write off expenses.

[MonzaRacer]

OK if you had insurance on the totaled vehicle at time of accident a look and see if it had uninsured/under-insured listed on it, this is your paying to cover Jose the illegal immigrants totaling of your vehicle,,, or Don Juan Insurance company dragging its feet.
First of all, you are entitled to fair book price by mileage/condition. Some states will either let you include last 6 months to 1 yr of MAJOR repairs like engine, transmission, large suspension repairs like struts/shocks, chassis. Some say it has to total a percentage of the cars value which means would it up the trade/sale value. Think of a 50k car with new engine with extended, transferable warranty.
Use Kelly Blue Book, and Edmunds, the NACA books.
Look at high value conditions, low value and average. Add in any receipts of major repairs like 4 tires or above suggestions.
Also make preliminary complaint on their insurance(to state ) if it has been over 30 days, contact lawyer about possible injury lawsuit. Get chiropractor/doctor statements, bills etc, if it goes forward that way.
When you call their office note it in note book, time, date, person spoke with.
Adjusters need prodding sometimes. It takes 10 minutes to look up a car and 2 days to do the said for company's paper work to get a check cut.
Get your primary car replaced, forward your rental expenses also and dont pad or anything.
As for having to rent, look around, find a suitable driver(ie cheap/reliable) this will be used to upgrade later and in some cases you can say hey look i had to get this 200k POS to replace my $10k car because your crooked, and cheap cars can be had for cheap if it runs a drives. If ya gotta slap 4 wal mart tires on, or get a muffler get in your own car.
BUT do not come off your original car prices, your gonna get hit by miles, age, options(be honest) if they low ball come back high book, make points on condition, addons(wheels stereo tires,repairs making it more valuable)PICTURES before accident and after. If it has parts (like was it truck with LSx/auto, still running after wreck) that are sale-able and you have time to part out take vehicle as partial settlement.
Also ask for supervisor if talking to PEE-ON. Ask for the adjuster boss's number.
PUSH your insurance to help negotiate or you will turn THEM IN. Your policy is a contract to cover you, if it was Personal Liability/Property Damage, without Uninsured/Underinsured coverage they should be making a small "fee" in the negotiation([paid by other ins and your premiums)if you had full coverage, your check should have been there within 30 days. Call, note times, names, positions.
Google best attorney names(ie mean, nasty ones that go for damages and such) use these names ,as in like hey do you want me to call my attorney, so and so Attorney in law.
Your first threat is Insurance commision of state your in. these guys eat insurance dip sticks(the ones who drag things out too long) for lunch. One good thing from government intervention.
Document , document, document.
Dont be greedy, just firm and insistent till your case is resolved, call from several different phones to keep them guessing and not screening calls.
I bought an 85 GMC C1500 High Sierra, power windows/locks, had new trans/ rear end, new front end parts/brakes low mileage and in decent shape in 1992, paid $1500 for it, owner threw in trans/rearend I installed. did other repairs including new cam,lifters(well take outs but could get receipts easy) pick up coil, plugs, use some old rockerarms/push rods i had left over . I had maybe $1800 in it and turned it around after a total out (my fault) through Progressive for about $5200+ and kept it and resold it(should have fixed it) for driveline rest of parts.
Yes I had full coverage.
keep note book with you at all times and number for them to call(ie only call your cell number, dont let them play the phone tag thing).
If you have records of stalling for multiple months, proof you had to get a substandard beater to get out of rental, etc IF you go to court it gets fun when judge sees an insurance company stall, and good judges take it out of their hide.
Good Luck.

[Zee]

Probably should take advice from those in the business but it is your call. Anyway, No state has any regulations whatsoever on a term called "book value" in fact, it really does not exist. The proper term is Actual Cash Value or ACV. It is not necessarily what everyone calls book value, but value guides, NADA, sale adds, appraisals and dealer quotes can support the ACV. ACV is essentially what it would cost to replace the property with substantially similar property. Otherwise, if you have a 67 big block vette that was in #3 condition, ACV = how much is would cost to get a 67 Vette with a big block in high 4,3 or low 2 condition. Most states will allow a value guide to support the ACV. ACV once supported is not contolled by any state regulatory body. The only thing any state is going to care about is that the insurer used a recognized process to arrive at the ACV. Individual state case law and judge descretion would prevail on what would be allowed to support value. Obviously, new parts such as tires etc are worth more than old parts so if you have receipts, gather them up and most insurers wont have a problem giving you additional value for them. (probably not 100% though).

Loss of use ie Rental is another issue all together and is generally subject to case law. Typically it is based on what is reasonable. However, you are not entitled to sit in a rental car until you reach an agreement that makes you happy. No states that I know of regulate loss or how the amount owed is determined. Again, states are more concerned that the process to determine the amount owed is fair and consistent.

I DOI complaint must be responded to and the timeframe is usually measured in hours at most companies. The fines can be huge and the reason it gets their attention is that if irregularities are noted, the state can come in an audit all of the carriers files and start assessing fines for everything they see. Most states are broke these days and an invite them into your files is like inviting an alcoholic over for a drink.

[chevyhector]

Thank you for all the great advice ! I now have a better understanding of all this ins. process. I'm just very disappointed on my adjuster and his manager! I know that they are covering for each other ! They are both a piece of sh*ty work !


Sorry, I guess this got a little long - - -- -

This will probably get the arrows in the air, but I used to be an insurance adjuster, so maybe I can offer a perspective. I did yachts, not cars, but the legal principles are generally the same.

Some of the facts are missing here. You never said what your injuries were. That can have an effect on how it is handled. In general terms, the property loss should on a total loss should be done in 30 days, and can be done separately from the liability loss. Unfortunately, the car is worth book value to your carrier. To the other carrier it is worth book, but if it is heavily documented, some additional value might negotiable.

Part of the hold up here is just how it works. In this situation, your carrier should pay for the car, and get it back from the other carrier. It is called subrogation. But they know they will have to chase the money for a year, so a less than ethical company will drag it out in hopes the other carrier will get around to it, and they can stay out of it.

The other carrier is not in any hurry, because if they think they are going to have to negotiate a liability loss with you, the more up against the wall you are, the more easily you will sign the release and go away.

As for the liablity loss, some people have an idea that if they are not at fault, get a lawyer and someone will pay. Not so fast. What they are paying for are your damages. How were you damaged, and what is your loss. Lost a car, easy, pay for the car. Injured, easy, pay the medical bills. Expenses (rental car etc.) easy, pay it. Some will pay expenses like rentals ahead, others not until there is a settlement and a signed release. It just depends on internal company policy.

Now we come to the tricky part. What are your damages beyond that, and are they worth something. A little something for your time and trouble, ok. Notice I said little. Real money comes from real damages. Was someone disabled? Permanently scarred? Prevented from earning a living? See my point . . . the policy will pay under the law for real value. Does the claim have real value.

You can go the lawyer route, but unless you have real damages, that isn't always the best route. A claim over a 10k car and some expenses will never see a courtroom. You are paying him to rattle cages and negotiate a deal you can do yourself. I have seen the figure 20-30% batted around this thread. Think again. The going rate is 40% + expenses. It is a no cure, no pay relationship - he only gets a percentage of the recovery. But that is any recovery. He is going to get 40 cents of every dollar, and probably another 10 cents of it for expenses. Do the math and make sure your damages warrant giving away that much of your recovery.

Lean on the adjuster from your company. Then on his supervisor. Make it clear that without prompt satisfaction you intend to file a complaint with the state insurance commissioner. And if needed, don't hesitate to do it. Believe me, a valid insurance commisioner complaint will keep a claims manager awake at night. A screaming obnoxious lawyer, well, no. A senior level adjuster may have legal representation on 35% of his files. It's just part of the game.

*** Quick note about the real life of an insurance adjuster.
They are licensed by the state. You cannot work without the license, and in most states they are tough to get. How they adjust and settle claims is set forth in legal stone. There really isn't as much gray area as the public thinks. I dealt with million dollar yachts, but never saw a claim worth risking my license over.

But although I have to follow the law, and the policy to the letter of the law, I don't have to make it easy. Your adjuster probably has 200 active claim files on his desk. Think about that number. Scream, yell, curse, threaten to call your attorney in a situation that doesn't warrant it, or all of the above . . . you go to the bottom of the pile. Or you get to jump through hoops of documentation to the letter of the law, when I can go easier . . .

People would never believe this, but the most common thing that slows down a claim is the insured, or his chosen repair facility not providing documents.

[Boatmark]

Zee is correct, legally we are talking about ACV. What we all refer to as book value. Because be the books are the first place anyone goes for values. If it is something off the wall, or so new as not to have good numbers, they might talk to some dealers etc.

Also true that when talking about the hypothetical 67' Vette, the parts, pieces and markets are at the top of the discussion of value. But I assumed we were talking about a late model driver. In that case, real world is what is in the books. If you can document extraordinary repairs (engine etc.) it will help. But tires etc. not really. My 04' Avalanche has been kept in stunning condition, but as a total loss, its not worth more than a well kept one with the same miles. But in a liability loss everything is negotiable. Take a shot, just don't expect much.

You are the only one with all the facts, so you can choose the best course of action. Hope some of this helps.

[chevyhector]

Another update...

My ins. co is paying the value of my car sometime this week, I will have a balance of $5000.00 . I don't know what happens now?!?! Do I go after the other ins. co. for the balance and compensation ???