New Pro-touring Full Floater Hub Setup from the GMR (coming soon)

[The GMR]

New Full Floater Hub setup coming soon for the Pro-Touring Guys!

Features:
-Dual 2" bearings
-Wide bearing spread
-7075 Hub body, light and strong
-5/8" wheel studs
-Fits a 35 spline axle

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Jason

[Payton King]

Things that would make yours sell...or work for me.

needs a 5 on 4 3/4 bolt pattern. 1/2 wheel stud. A standard chevy wheel needs to fit, so the hubcentric raised area has to be around 2.75 and not stick out so far as not to allow you to run your present wheels center caps. Need a rotor hat or adapter to run a 13 inch rotor. Most circle track stuff is 8 on 7. I need 12 x 8.75.

[John Wright]

needs a 5 on 4 3/4 bolt pattern. 1/2 wheel stud. A standard chevy wheel needs to fit, so the hubcentric raised area has to be around 2.75 and not stick out so far as not to allow you to run your present wheels center caps. Need a rotor hat or adapter to run a 13 inch rotor. Most circle track stuff is 8 on 7. I need 12 x 8.75.Yup...I agree, good suggestions.

[Steve1968LS2]

Things that would make yours sell...or work for me.

needs a 5 on 4 3/4 bolt pattern. 1/2 wheel stud. A standard chevy wheel needs to fit, so the hubcentric raised area has to be around 2.75 and not stick out so far as not to allow you to run your present wheels center caps. Need a rotor hat or adapter to run a 13 inch rotor. Most circle track stuff is 8 on 7. I need 12 x 8.75.

What he said... :)

Been thinking of going floater on Penny.. if for no other reason than I hate when a car is done. lol

Would also be nice if it had an option for 31 spline axles since that's the majority of third members out there in use (in our segment).

[rrunner68]

Oh boy, maybe in 20 years we'll get this for Mopars?

[Payton King]

add that to the list.

[John Wright]

Oh boy, maybe in 20 years we'll get this for Mopars?
Just run Chevy bolt pattern wheels ;)


wait...are you speaking of the rear itself....8.75 Mopar vs the 9"?

[rrunner68]

Nope, I have both of those beat, I run a Dana 60, lol.

[cluxford]

Very nice, just installed my floaters on my 9" earlier this week

[406 Q-ship]

.. if for no other reason than I hate when a car is done. lol


When exactly does that happen? :hmm:

I do agree that you should look at a 5 on 4 3/4 pattern or if your really slick a daul pattern of 5 on 4 3/4 and 5 on 4 1/2 for the GM, Fords, and Mopars. A 35 spline should not be that tough, isn't that Dana 60?

[The GMR]

You guys are right on target! Here are some of the things in the works.

-5 on 4.75 bolt pattern.
-1/2 wheel studs
-Smaller then 3.01 wheel ID for drive plates


Here is one concept that we have though of and Frank from Prodigy agrees that this will be a good thing!

We can take a 12 bolt, then cut the ends off and weld in the snouts for the hubs, remove your current brakes then weld on caliper mounts so that you can use your current brake setup. Now you can have a Full Floater 12 bolt with your current brake setup. How does this sound?

Jason

[The GMR]

add that to the list.


We currently have a 31 spline FF setup available. We usually run then with out GMR9 3.0

The issue is that customers were breaking them due to high power and traction. The 35 spline is a massive step above in both strength but also reliability with the hub bearings.

Jason

[The GMR]

Oh boy, maybe in 20 years we'll get this for Mopars?


I can make this work for the Mopar.

Please let me know when your ready.

[email protected]

[protouring70]

What advantage does this give you or what is the benefit? Sorry I just don't know much about this.

Thanks

[The GMR]

What advantage does this give you or what is the benefit? Sorry I just don't know much about this.

Thanks

Advantages -

Strength - This hub is a true full floater with 2" bearings for both the inner and outer. The Snout is CNC machined heat treated 4130 Chromoly. They are welded into the housing and the hub / weight of the car then rides on this. The bearings are wide spread, about twice the width of a GN setup, drastically increasing the strength and reducing the leverage seen at the wheel mounting surface. The bearing spread is over 2".

Reliability - With ever increasing HP and traction the standard flanged rear end does not keep up. The hub assembly will not allow for "piston Knock-back" from your calipers because the hub is in a fixed position. The machined lock nut uses counter rotation threads for keeping the hub tight over time (LH and RH).

True 35 spline - This setup will allow for a true 1.5" 35 spline axle to be used. We have options that range from 4340 Chromoly to Gun-Drilled 300M.

Tested - We have used almost this exact same setup on several off-road race trucks in the Lucas Oil Short Coarse series also know as CORR.

Brakes - We make adapters for just about every brake setup possible, and if not then I can custom make one and get either your current brake setup to work or a new one. The options are just about endless for the stopping department.

Hub depth - The measurement from the WMS to the tube is only about 5", making this perfect for the PT market where large tires and link setups are the norm.


Its late, so I might have missed something. :fingersx:
Jason

[rrunner68]

Great ....one more thing for the to-do list. Wife is gonna be mad.

[rsk68]

im told this is what i need to cure the knock back issues with my solid mount wilwoods, i have a standard length 12 bolt that was narrowed 6" total, also running leafs with the DSE offset shackles, my question is do i have enough room to use this and keep my same offset wheels? i dont think i could use the rear drum parking break though!

[dipren443]

Ugh... I see this in my future too... I love my car I really do. But the personal vendetta it has on my bank account wears on me :)

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Advantages -

Strength - This hub is a true full floater with 2" bearings for both the inner and outer. The Snout is CNC machined heat treated 4130 Chromoly. They are welded into the housing and the hub / weight of the car then rides on this. The bearings are wide spread, about twice the width of a GN setup, drastically increasing the strength and reducing the leverage seen at the wheel mounting surface. The bearing spread is over 2".

Reliability - With ever increasing HP and traction the standard flanged rear end does not keep up. The hub assembly will not allow for "piston Knock-back" from your calipers because the hub is in a fixed position. The machined lock nut uses counter rotation threads for keeping the hub tight over time (LH and RH).

True 35 spline - This setup will allow for a true 1.5" 35 spline axle to be used. We have options that range from 4340 Chromoly to Gun-Drilled 300M.

Tested - We have used almost this exact same setup on several off-road race trucks in the Lucas Oil Short Coarse series also know as CORR.

Brakes - We make adapters for just about every brake setup possible, and if not then I can custom make one and get either your current brake setup to work or a new one. The options are just about endless for the stopping department.

Hub depth - The measurement from the WMS to the tube is only about 5", making this perfect for the PT market where large tires and link setups are the norm.


Its late, so I might have missed something. :fingersx:
Jason

Hey Jason -- so if I have a a Ford 9 w 31 spline axles, do I get the 31 spline kit or upgrade to the 35? This would be for a 500 rwhp application w 335 tires. Also, does your kit allow for 13 or 14" rotors? Looking on your site I didn't see that size as an option...

[The GMR]

im told this is what i need to cure the knock back issues with my solid mount wilwoods, i have a standard length 12 bolt that was narrowed 6" total, also running leafs with the DSE offset shackles, my question is do i have enough room to use this and keep my same offset wheels? i dont think i could use the rear drum parking break though!


This will solve the issues you are having with the calipers. Also, not sure about the distance, but this is designed to work with some of the more "extreme" situations.

I would need to go through it to know for sure if this will work.
jason

[The GMR]

Hey Jason -- so if I have a a Ford 9 w 31 spline axles, do I get the 31 spline kit or upgrade to the 35? This would be for a 500 rwhp application w 335 tires. Also, does your kit allow for 13 or 14" rotors? Looking on your site I didn't see that size as an option...


Depends, the main thing would be the third member, you will need to upgrade that to 35 spline if you want to run the larger 35 spline hubs. The 31 spline are smaller and use a different bearing setup.

the large brake setups will work no problem.

jason

[The GMR]

Great ....one more thing for the to-do list. Wife is gonna be mad.


I have a solution to help ease the pain,

This is my other business I own with my girl. Im sure I can get a few mixes for your wife if you decide to order...

http://www.redvelvetstefanie.com/


Maybe this will turn into a new PT discount.... Keep your wife happy while your getting more cool stuff for your project! :idea:

Jason

[The GMR]

Here is a shot of the Hubs, Getting closer each day!

The one on the left is a 5 on 4.75 with 1/2" studs. On the right is a 5 on 5 with 5/8" wheel studs.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[The GMR]

Here is a little "behind the scenes" at the GMR...

This is our Full Floater Snout fixture. As you can see it locates the ends properly in line while keeping them straight throughout the welding process. We have found that this process is the only way to ensure the ends are straight. For the TIG welded ends it takes about 3 hours total, the MIG ones are only about 2 hours.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Close up of the welding with the plug welds. This one is setup for a 52.375" WMS-WMS

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif



Jason

[68sixspeed]

why are you setting them up straight?

[The GMR]

as in centered on the gear set. This is opposed to just welding in the ends into the tube, when the tube can be off quite a bit regardless of the housing manufacture.

being able to set the "toe" or camber is a little different then getting it centered on the gear set. Different setups for different applications, nascar stuff is setup with offset camber, 2 deg or so If i remember correctly.

jason

[68sixspeed]

that's kind of what I was implying, lets face it, floaters offer no real gain for the street, if anything you have more rotating weight, spline drive plates to wear, etc. The added strength and safety for the track is great, but even more so is getting some camber and toe to the rear on a fixed rear car.

[rrunner68]

So as luck would have it, The wilwood setup I have on my Dana 60 (with integrated parking brake) requires the use of Green Bearings vice tapered. My "high-performance" driving eats bearings at about the rate of 1 per side per 7500 miles of race and Daily driving( I drive 400 miles a week commuting). What real options am I looking at if I dropped my rear this winter and sent it to you?

[Bryce]

Do it Dan! Go with the full floater.

[prostreet69camaro]

That looks like a very nice setup. Very heavy duty..

[parsonsj]

Most intriguing... I've got some thoughts where a package like that might be put to good use.

Do you mind telling us more about the bearings? Do they need periodic maintenance? How do they compare to the standard 9" Set 20 bearings in strength and longevity?

jp

[The GMR]

So as luck would have it, The wilwood setup I have on my Dana 60 (with integrated parking brake) requires the use of Green Bearings vice tapered. My "high-performance" driving eats bearings at about the rate of 1 per side per 7500 miles of race and Daily driving( I drive 400 miles a week commuting). What real options am I looking at if I dropped my rear this winter and sent it to you?


The bearings in this Floater setup will last quite a bit longer. One major difference between the setup we have in this thread and other setups is the massive spread between the bearings in relation to the WMS. This spread is double what a standard GN floater setup is and thus drastically reduces the leverage seen on the bearings, making them last quite a bit longer. To give you some reference we run the exact same bearings and almost same hub on some off-road race trucks. Even with the 4K weight and constant pounding the bearings last well over the 7500 mile mark. Every thing we use in this floater kit is VERY high quality, including the seals.

Some specific advantage I see for you would be the reliability and strength versus the flanged setup. With that said, we do offer a IMCA style 31 spline floater setup as well.

jason

[The GMR]

Most intriguing... I've got some thoughts where a package like that might be put to good use.

Do you mind telling us more about the bearings? Do they need periodic maintenance? How do they compare to the standard 9" Set 20 bearings in strength and longevity?

jp


The bearings are simple 2" tapered roller bearings and both the interior and exterior are the same part number, making replacement easy. The snout has a machined spacer that separates the bearings and lines them up with the races on the hub properly, this keeps the rollers from eating away at the side of the race thus causing premature fatigue and failure. We then back that with a high quality timken seal that keeps the dirt out and the grease in. I prefer to use a high quality "sticky" bearing grease when packing the bearing for initial install, then the oil from the rear end does provide some added lube over time. If the bearings are packed properly then they will last a very long time. The initial design of the hub and how it transfers load with both vehicle weight and rotational forces lend itself to creating a situation where the bearings will outlast a set 20.

jason

[The GMR]

Im going to have more pictures and breakdown of the hub itself shortly.

thanks for all the interest guys! Keep the questions coming!

jason

[DFRESH]

Jason, question as follows;

Have a brand new Fab 9 housing with back brace already installed---have the 3rd member now also-35 spline---Will need axles and possibly your floater kit installed. Do you have price for the floater assembly yet---

Doug

[MoparCar]

Jason,

I'm new to full floaters so I may be asking a dumb question...how big is the splined drive hub opening need to be in the wheel for everything to fit? I guess the question is can I run an off the shelf wheel such as a Forgeline or CCW with no modifications? Can a center cap from the wheel manufacturer still be used? Do the wheels need to be hub centric or anything special?

Thanks--teach us how to use the full floater on the street!
Wes

[The GMR]

Jason, question as follows;

Have a brand new Fab 9 housing with back brace already installed---have the 3rd member now also-35 spline---Will need axles and possibly your floater kit installed. Do you have price for the floater assembly yet---

Doug

We can install these on any housing, Our fixture locates off the face of the rear end then holds the ends in place with a through bar.

The hub setups are going to be in the 1200-1300 range and include:
-Two hubs 7075 alum
-Two drive plates 4130 chromoly
-Two 4130 snouts
-Four Bearings
-Two seals
-Wheel Studs
-Drive plate caps
-All the O rings and hardware.

Jason

[rsk68]

Have any pictures with completed unit, including brakes, currious how the caliper mounts will work.

[The GMR]

Jason,

I'm new to full floaters so I may be asking a dumb question...how big is the splined drive hub opening need to be in the wheel for everything to fit? I guess the question is can I run an off the shelf wheel such as a Forgeline or CCW with no modifications? Can a center cap from the wheel manufacturer still be used? Do the wheels need to be hub centric or anything special?

Thanks--teach us how to use the full floater on the street!
Wes

We are working on this right now, I will post up more information once we get this settled.

No, the wheels do not need to be hub centric.

jason

[The GMR]

Have any pictures with completed unit, including brakes, currious how the caliper mounts will work.


working on that right now,

were very busy, but Im not complaining! Busy is a very good thing!
jason

[John Wright]

These look even beefier than the Speedway Eng pieces....

http://www.1speedway.com/Hubs.htm

[DFRESH]

We can install these on any housing, Our fixture locates off the face of the rear end then holds the ends in place with a through bar.

The hub setups are going to be in the 1200-1300 range and include:
-Two hubs 7075 alum
-Two drive plates 4130 chromoly
-Two 4130 snouts
-Four Bearings
-Two seals
-Wheel Studs
-Drive plate caps
-All the O rings and hardware.

Jason

Thanks for the info bro---I'm assuming there is an additional charge for you installing this onto my existing setup?

Doug

[The GMR]

Thanks for the info bro---I'm assuming there is an additional charge for you installing this onto my existing setup?

Doug


Yes,

The install is about $175-$250 depending on MIG or TIG welded ends.

Im will go through the process more in depth shortly here, There is quite a bit of work to ensure the ends are installed properly.

jason

[fordsbyjay]

So what kind of cost are we looking at Jason? Is it available with a standard new housing or do you have to use a fabricated housing (I think they are ugly)? I am going to assume they are not available in 5 on 4 1/2 for Fords??

[GrnDragon]

Jason is a great guy to deal with, and this looks like a really nice product. So I pulled out the plastic...

I just sent my Competition Engineering Fab 9 housing from my JRS full frame to Jason to have the 5x4.75 with 1/2 studs Pro Touring Full Floater installed. He is also modifying the drive plate so I can still use my Forgeline center caps on my wheels.

I also sent him a custom brake bracket for the brake kit I designed. I designed and waterjetted a new rear aluminum hat for my rotors, it turned out pretty damn cool. I'm sure Jason will have lots of pictures soon. Once I get it back I will get the brakes all set up and post some pics.

I'm going to have the coolest frame ever...I'm just not sure it will ever be on a finished car.

[MoparCar]

Jason is a great guy to deal with, and this looks like a really nice product. So I pulled out the plastic...

I just sent my Competition Engineering Fab 9 housing from my JRS full frame to Jason to have the 5x4.75 with 1/2 studs Pro Touring Full Floater installed. He is also modifying the drive plate so I can still use my Forgeline center caps on my wheels.

I also sent him a custom brake bracket for the brake kit I designed. I designed and waterjetted a new rear aluminum hat for my rotors, it turned out pretty damn cool. I'm sure Jason will have lots of pictures soon. Once I get it back I will get the brakes all set up and post some pics.

I'm going to have the coolest frame ever...I'm just not sure it will ever be on a finished car.

Awesome! I can't wait for pictures. Will you be running a parking brake?

Thanks, Wes

[GrnDragon]

Yes, I have an external mechanical parking brake caliper, it is called a Mr. Parker. The ONLY place I can find that sells it is Revolution Brakes (I don't like the company). I have searched and searched and cannot find the OEM of the caliper.

[Bryce]

Yes, I have an external mechanical parking brake caliper, it is called a Mr. Parker. The ONLY place I can find that sells it is Revolution Brakes (I don't like the company). I have searched and searched and cannot find the OEM of the caliper.

That mechanical brake looks just like the wilwood brake.

http://wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperList.aspx?subname=Mech%20Spot

They say it can be used as a parking brake.

[MoparCar]

GMR, any updates?

[The GMR]

Picture of the bearing spread, about 1.5"

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Initial mock up of 14" rotors and 6 piston wilwoods with radial mounts.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

More pics real soon!

Jason

[MoparCar]

Nice! Looking forward to more updates.
Wes

[rrunner68]

Yeah, and of course a 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern would be tits.

[johnparts]

Ok call me stupid here but since the only exposure I have on full floater axles is with HD Dana 60 rears in trucks. Where does the axle actually connect to the hub? I know on the floaters I've seen the axle bolts to the outside of the center of the hub face But I dont see a method of attachment on this set-up and who would you get the axles from if you ran this set-up?

[The GMR]

Yeah, and of course a 5 x 4.5" bolt pattern would be tits.


working on that next. The only down side is that we can only run a 1/2" stud with that bolt pattern.

The 4.75 is already in the final stages of production / mockup. I will have a final of the Hub real soon. We have taken out material that did not need to be there to reduce weight and inprove the dynamics by allowing for more standard wheels.

jason

[The GMR]

Ok call me stupid here but since the only exposure I have on full floater axles is with HD Dana 60 rears in trucks. Where does the axle actually connect to the hub? I know on the floaters I've seen the axle bolts to the outside of the center of the hub face But I dont see a method of attachment on this set-up and who would you get the axles from if you ran this set-up?


Sorry for the cinfusion,

there actually is a "drive plate" that slides over the studs and then the axle indexes onto that and the studs.

here is pic of the drive plate on the hub setup.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

As for the axles, we can machine units from a few different materials.

4340 heat treated steel
300M
300M gun / hone drilled

Jason

[johnparts]

I see that now. Awesome set-up and it really takes all the force off of that single .750 wide axle bearing. This is really geared towards someone who sees a good deal of track duty though correct?

[MoparCar]

GMR,
So I'm assuming you're saying working with standard wheels you are meaning pro-touring style Forgeline, CCW, Boze, etc? Will this allow their center cap to be used or will we see the drive hub?

Thanks for the work on this. I think you are definitely heading in the right direction. Simplify the brakes for us also (brackets, mounts, parking)---especially if you have any idea for a parking brake since these are pro-touring cars and not necessary pro-race cars!

Looks great.
Wes

[rrunner68]

I've got a Mopar 9 1/4 with 3.92's and an LSD once you guys are ready with a production piece. and I'd REALLY like to have it by December...just sayin.....

[GrnDragon]

GMR,
So I'm assuming you're saying working with standard wheels you are meaning pro-touring style Forgeline, CCW, Boze, etc? Will this allow their center cap to be used or will we see the drive hub?

Thanks for the work on this. I think you are definitely heading in the right direction. Simplify the brakes for us also (brackets, mounts, parking)---especially if you have any idea for a parking brake since these are pro-touring cars and not necessary pro-race cars!

Looks great.
Wes

I gave him the dimensions that will clear my Forgeline Wheels to allow me to use the standard center cap. My Forgeline's have VERY thin hubs so they "should" be worst case (I wanted the deepest lip I could get so Forgeline made the hub pretty thin). He is stepping the drive plate to clear my center caps, I imagine there should be pics or an update soon. Jason told me the drive plate hub only sticks out about 1" from the wheel mount surface on the drive plate.

[454bug]

Initial mock up of 14" rotors and 6 piston wilwoods with radial mounts.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Hey Jason,

Man, your new setup sure is lookin' sweet! You've got me thinking...

I would like to know what kind of cost would be involved with converting my existing system over to your full floater setup? I could send you my housing for the conversion:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/DSC03842-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/DSC03845-1.jpg

and I could send my third member back to Moser to remove my brand new 31-spline Truetrac and replace it with their new 35-spline Wavetrac...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/DSC03843-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/DtrTruTrcINSET300x300_2-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/file_11_2-1.jpg

Since I would need to run a new setup for the rear brakes I would replace the 13" rotor, 4-piston caliper setup (with internal Parking Brake shoes) with a set like you are depicting above...

I would then probably run some kind of driveline Parking Brake like one of these:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/driveshaft_ebrake1254291542-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/09/82020920in20Ford2001-1.jpg

You know I would LOVE to be "sponsored" by these fine products... I could be your rolling billboard! :naughty:

Let me know what you think...

KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!!! :1st: