Front Shockwaves, Sway bar and Wilwoods.

[JRouche]

Ok, this is sort of a follow up to my other post, (Air ride, Watts link and Sway bar build) https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55420 (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55420)

Can’t believe it took a year to get the front done. I need to pick up the pace if I ever plan on driving this car.

So what I have is a 62 Nova, blaaa, blaaa, blaa. Same old story from the last post. The car had a stock suspension when I bought it. I tore out most of it around 1995 and put in the only available suspension that was available back then (besides a Fat Man strut suspension) a Mustang II. It’s an Arizona Nova MII crossmember and the rest is TCI parts. Granada 11" discs. Really not a bad setup compared to stock. I THINK!! I have yet to drive it.

So last year, (or the year before) I decided to ditch the coil springs for some air springs. I went with air ride technologies (aka ridetech). I didn't have a sway bar yet so that was also on the to-do list. And since I had the money flowing in the wrong direction already I added some wilwood brakes to the mix.

Sooooo, here is a "brief" description of the work. JR

Here is what it looked like after I removed the engine and getting ready to remove some suspension and other "stuff" in 1995.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/a-1.jpg

After the suspension and inner fenders removed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/b-1.jpg


Making new inner fenders.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/c-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/d-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/e-1.jpg



Fast forward to 2009. Getting ready to change some of this.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/f-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/g-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/h-1.jpg



First to go were the brakes and hubs. New 13" wilwood brakes with forged superlite calipers. It’s a zero offset kit so it didn't move the wheel at all.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/i-1.jpg

The rotors need to be safety wired to the hats. The black coating rubs off with the first use. It’s just to keep the rotor from rusting during shipping and handling.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/j-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/k-1.jpg

I bought some new forged spindles also. After installing the bearings the hubs are assembled to the spindle. I painted the spindle. They come raw.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/l-1.jpg

[JRouche]

Quick check for spacing to make sure the rotor runs centered within the caliper. Was right on the money. After some work of course.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/move-1.jpg

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I was keeping the lower control arms. But they needed some work to work with the shockwaves. I had to remove the spring cup and do some welding to install the mounts for the shockwave eyes. I did not want to use rubber bushings. Not that they are not great. They really are. But.... I wanted to try something else. For now it will be 4140 PH steel bushings. If they won’t work I have some delrin AF ready to turn down and make some delrin bushings. Just something I'm playing around with. And yeah yeah, I know all the bad things about steel bushings. Just checking some things out. It’s a hobby car after all.


Cup removed, new plate welded in.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/o-1.jpg


Shockwave mounts welded. Plate cut for shockwave clearance. Had to make sure the hole was large enough to clear the shock rebound and compression adjusting knobs.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/p-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/q-1.jpg

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Simple bushing removal tool. Its portable.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/s-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/t-1.jpg

Use a bearing separator to grip the control arm end and press the bushing out. Beats burning them out. Do people really do that???

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/u-1.jpg



Making bushings.

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[JRouche]

Centers pressed in.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/z-1.jpg



Some primer and paint.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/za-1.jpg

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Zerk and spiral grease groove.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zb-1.jpg



SPC adjustable upper control arms. Nice looking arms.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zd-1.jpg


The stock MII arms have the cross shaft mounted to the top of the crossmember on the horizontal surface. I wanted mine mounted to a vertical plate. These arms were pieced together by me. The MII arms they sell have a different cross shaft with rubber bushings and a horizontal mounting arrangement. I wanted metal bushings. That's one nice thing about SPC arms. The parts can be swapped around some.

Vertical plate and fitting it up for welding.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/ze-1.jpg

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Paint shop (cardboard box).....

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zh-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zi-1.jpg


Sway bar time. Speedway engineering sway bar. I used one on the rear. Nice company. Decent bar. Not as user friendly to install as some of the aftermarket bars but I wanted a lil more control over the spring rate. Most of these parts are from them. Some I made and some are from other vendors.


These don't come with zerks or grease channels.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zj-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zk-1.jpg

[JRouche]

These arms were straight, and a lot longer. Some heat and bending to match the template I made during fitment.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zl-1.jpg


All the parts after paint. They come in the raw.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zm-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zn-1.jpg

I'm keeping the steering rack. But ditching the rubber mounting bushings. I made some steel rack mounts. And increased the bolt size. Why increase it? No real reason. A 1/2" grade 8 bolt was fine.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zo-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zp-1.jpg


Oh, and I did change the tie rod end for some baer tracker tie rod ends. I did have some bumpsteer before. These solved a lot of it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zq-1.jpg


Here are the final pics, after its all installed, but not aligned. I swapped the washers out for shims and a couple other details. But close enough to being done.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zr-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zu-1.jpg



Oh yeah. The air ride valves, compressors and tank. The wiring on the valves was kinda a rats nest. Just the way it is with so many wires. But more importantly the valves were in the wrong location for me. I wanted the two outside valves to be used for the back springs. So the stainless hoses could come right to the valves and not have to tangle around the front hoses. See, ridetech had the valves wired like this, from left to right. Left rear, left front, right rear, right front. The hoses get kinda tangled that way, for my application anyway. I needed to re-wire it to LR,LF,RF,RR. So I had to cut A LOT of wires. And since I was cutting wire I thought I’d clean up the look a lil. Here it is....


Stock
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zv-1.jpg

Cut and flipped over.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zw-1.jpg

[JRouche]

Wires routed through my mounting board.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zx-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zz-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zza-1.jpg


Board in the car.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zzb-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zzd-1.jpg


I welded a few more bungs on the tank for drain at the bottom, good pressure gauge and a good American made quick release for any air needs. Or to re-fill it from shop air if needed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zze-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/07/zzf-1.jpg



This is the alignment tool I made and showed before. It worked like a dream!!!! I was able to hop from side to side and see real numbers instantly. SOOO easy to align the car. My final numbers are 1/16" toe in., .5 degrees neg. camber and 3.5 degrees pos. caster. That's just to start out. Those numbers will be a breeze to change if I need to. Adjustable upper arms help.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/h1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/m1-1.jpg

THAT’S ALL FOLKS :)

[Bryce]

Awesome write up! you do great work.

[claytonisbob]

That is a really cool looking alignment setup. I need to make some lazy susan pads like those so I can get the perfect angle when figuring caster.

Very clean front suspension setup to match your rear.

[GRNOVA]

JR, You have some mad fabricating skills. Man that front looks as stout as the rear. You have really taken your time on this build and it shows. Let me know when I can drop off my car for a few weeks and you can add some of your "little touch ups". Again great build!

[JRouche]

JR, You have some mad fabricating skills. Man that front looks as stout as the rear. You have really taken your time on this build and it shows. Let me know when I can drop off my car for a few weeks and you can add some of your "little touch ups". Again great build!

Hahaha.. Thanks Tim. I actually stole ALOT of YOUR ideas from your car that already had the shockwaves in place. Helped me alot.

Im working out a cable release for the stock hood latch though. Might be something new for you, but I doubt it, you have prolly already been there done that :)

My next thread is gonna be "Billet grille, cable hood release and new bumper". Im painting the parts up now. Pics to follow. JR

[JRouche]

That is a really cool looking alignment setup. I need to make some lazy susan pads like those so I can get the perfect angle when figuring caster.

Very clean front suspension setup to match your rear.

Thanks.. The lazy Susan pads were not my make. They are a set of bear turn plates from an alignment rack. I basically stole them for the cost of the drive to pick them up. Tore them completely down and re-built them.

Turn plates come in a variety of combos. Some of them are just turn plates. Rotation only. And they are good, better than tire on concrete.

But these plates also slide. They slide front to back and sideways. Very nice when you are adjusting camber and caster while loaded.

With camber changes the plates will slide in or out, no friction to screw up the numbers. With caster changes the plates will slide fore and aft, again, no friction to hold up the suspension.

IMO the only way for a guy to do a home shop alignment is to have a tire contact that is free to move in every direction.

And NO. You dont need purpose made turn plates. So many guys have done similar work with sliding surface panels. Like smooth aluminum or steel thats well lubricated. Even linoleum plates that are fully greased up. So many ways to get it done. The turn plates DO make it a whole lot cleaner though.

But the key is free movement. A guy can do it with 15 bucks of materials. And I will encourage anyone that wants to use whatever he has. And Ill be the first one there to help him make it work. Within driving range :)

My point. Any means to the objective is a worth while job. Im a scrounge. Ill find and use any and everything that is within my grasp to get it done. I dont have alot of money.

Im a hack. I wanna see more folks show the hack jobs. Only so we can ALL learn and get some ideas. I get most of my ideas from other folks. Id like to see more of the lurkers here show their work. Thats why I show my hack jobs, to lure out the other guys that are doing the same thing. Get it ALL out here so we can get some more IDEAS.... JR

[JRouche]

Been awhile for a post of the progress.

I finally got to take the car for a real drive, VS the putt-putt around the neighborhood with no front grille, lights or hood.

I got the front all buttoned up with a grille and lights (even a horn), and mounted rear lights and wired everything up. Put in the gauges and wired those all up, including speedo and tach finally.

Double checked all the fluids, replaced the oil, filter and plugs, packed a nice lil emergency bag with all the necessary tools and duct tape, including a flash light, never know when you are broke down and need to see under the car for that one part :)

First course was to bed the new brake pads in. They made an awful rubbing, vibrating noise just backing the car out of the garage. Really loud and vibrated the entire car, I was a lil worried. But kinda knew the black coating wilwood uses was part of that I figured.

I picked a spot on a sunday morning (for no traffic) that was close to home so I wouldnt heat the brakes up yet. Then proceeded to bed them in.

Up to 60 mph then hard brakes, as hard as I could without locking them up. Slow to 10 mph and release. Continued with that speed then braking for ten runs. They say to brake till you get some brake fade. Never had brake fade, speed wasnt high enough. But they did get nice and toasty, could smell them. They say you want to see a light bluing of the rotor due to heat. It was there. It was a long stretch of road, no traffic but there were some gardeners working. They must have though I was crazy with the speeding and rapid braking.

After the tenth run I drove at a low speed, idling on the side of the road actually to cool the brakes without touching them and to cool off the new engine. Then parked to take a break and inspect the car for any fluid leaks (this was the first drive for the entire drivetrain). All looked good, and the rotors cooled, they had a nice light blue tint to them and the pads never stopped on the hot rotors. Bedding DONE! And they were silky smooth after that. And they stop the car on a dime. Never seen a 48 year old car stop so well.

Then took the car on a lil trip to the coast to take some pics for a buddy that wanted to see the car. Nice drive. It was on a street that is a 55 mph road. Not a freeway or highway, but fast enough with some sweeping turns that I could get a feel for the car. I havent tuned the suspension yet, there are alot of variables that can be tweaked, like the double adjustable shocks and the air pressure on the springs and the sway bars. Just a simple drive.

But WOW!!! The car went through the turns great. It was flat, no wallowing about, no bouncing, not hard or harsh like you could feel every rut in the road. It felt like I was riding on air. Hang on a second!! I was riding on air. Geeze, no wonder. LOL

But the thing is, I kinda expected the air ride to be soft feeling and overly soft in the turns. NOT!! The springs supported the body though the turns and reacted very quickly. The progressive nature of air springs is something to be tried. When I thought of air springs way back when I was like no thanks. Sure, they will give a nice comfy ride on the straights, but the turns they must compress too much and be TOO complient on the turns and changing turns, like they will feel like Im rolling around on stay puff marshmallows. Far from it. The progressive nature of air springs really shines for a fast street car. I dont know about the race track yet, prolly will never know, I cant afford to race.

But on the street they have hidden "stiffness" in them. It doesnt come out till you push it, then you see it. Cause for regular street driving they are super comfortable.

But lemme say. I did take some of the 55 mph turns at a much higher speed and they had no problem at all keeping the car level. It was like the car was on rails. Yup, common saying. But really, the car was very well mannered and didnt go anywhere I didnt want it to go and the high speed turns are a dream.

Now, for a short track race track. Umm, my steering ratios are a lil slow. I have a trw mustang II rack. On a tight circuit I could see myself wrapping my arms around each other, too many turns of the steering wheel to get around a 90 degree turn. But I wont be changing that, its manual steering and parking lots need a lil ratio advantage.

So anyway, the first drive in 15 years was so much fun and a success, I have been driving this car around anytime I need to go somewhere anymore.

Now, the pics. Solly for the folks on a dial up or slow connection, dont mean to bogg you down with pics. But I gotta share :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/a-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/11/f-1.jpg

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[MrQuick]

very nice jr, sits perfect. lol that gull had his sites on that beautiful black canvas. should feel flat...thats a low roll center you got there.

[L & H Kustoms]

J congrats on the first drive it must have felt great. Lets see some more pics of the car

[wellis77]

Car looks great. Appreciate the feedback on the handling and ride quality of the shock waves. Are you running SA or DA shockwaves? Definiltely need more pics.

[Bryce]

congrats on the first drive

[MCB Matt]

VERY nice work! Let see some pics of it all together. GM left SOOOO much room for improvement in the chevy II

[JRouche]

Hey Will. I have the DA up front and SA in back. Purely a cost choice. If I had the extra change I would have went with the DA on the rear also. For that matter I would have went with the Level Pro instead of the pressure sensing system. But.... Money only comes around here every so often so I get what I can. JR

[wellis77]

I hear you JR. Your car looks great! Are the pics ride height? Any idea what the height is to the rocker in those or at ride height? I am hoping to use the select series shock in my build. They are about the same cost as the DA, but I really don't want to mess with adjustments; and to be honest, I'm not sure I would even if I went with them. I like the idea of being able to switch from a cruising mode to a more performance oriented mode with the push of a button. I'll be buying the Level Pro too, it'll take an extra month or two to save up, but... Thanks for sharing your pics.

[JRouche]

VERY nice work! Let see some pics of it all together. GM left SOOOO much room for improvement in the chevy II

Thanks Matt. Umm, thats all there is right now. The interior is ALL metal. Its a rattle can to be honest. I wanted to get the drive train and suspension up and running then work on the interior. My next project is the power windows.

But I dont have any carpet or door panels or any cloth. Heck, I dont even have any door or window seals because I will leave them off till after paint. I have a new set of ALL the door and window rubber, but its not going on. So the car has a major metal sound, closing the doors, THUD, metal on metal. While driving, major metal on metal sounds coming from everything rattling. Door to door frame, window to window frame and every other piece of metal that should have rubber around it including the lil glove box door that doesnt have its rubber bumpers. All of the metal to metal sounds really makes a racket during driving.

But that doesnt stop me from driving her. So much fun. Im amazed everyday I take it out and get more feel for the car. It handles better than any of my other cars. Specially from what I remember. Before it was like driving a bath tub in heavy seas without a tiller.

Now its like it doesnt even notice the turns. They are just like the straights. Tracking is right on, road feel is still there, and the feel of control is like its hooked up to my brain. Im not fighting it. I see turn, and it turns. Still need to mess with the shocks, I think I set them all the way loose during the build. The front will want to cycle a lil more than I like when I hit some undulating road conditions. I can dampen that out Im sure.

The brakes are really nice. I have a booster from a Cadillac (along with its matched MC). And not alot of vacuum. And if I go with what the experts say its not enough vacuum. But maybe thats what makes it nice. Its not over boosted, there is plenty of feel, and alot of braking. But it IS giving a certain amount of boost so it doesnt feel like a completely hydraulic system. I can go deep and use some late braking and its solid, no brake fade yet and it will stop on a dime. And I havent even messed with the adjustable proportioning valve yet. I set it so the rear brakes have the least amount of braking when I bedded in my pads. I still have to adjust the valve so the rears are doing their part.

I actually still have to do ALOT of tuning. Brakes, suspension, EFI (pro-flo, many variables). But really, thats the fun stuff.

Im finally done rolling around on the creeper welding under the car, getting balls of molten metal rolling down my sleeve, or down my neck. The "hard" work is done. Time to get to the "easy" stuff.

Then one day Ill send it out for paint and the upholster to make it like a real car. But until then Im driving the wheels off it!!!! JR

[JRouche]

I hear you JR. Your car looks great! Are the pics ride height? Any idea what the height is to the rocker in those or at ride height? I am hoping to use the select series shock in my build. They are about the same cost as the DA, but I really don't want to mess with adjustments; and to be honest, I'm not sure I would even if I went with them. I like the idea of being able to switch from a cruising mode to a more performance oriented mode with the push of a button. I'll be buying the Level Pro too, it'll take an extra month or two to save up, but... Thanks for sharing your pics.

No, thats not the ride height. Its on the bump stops on the pic. And you could have your car at that height if you had smaller tires up front. My tires are a lil wide up front and they WILL hit the fenders at that height. One inch up and the tires clear.

But I built the car to ride at the stock ride height while driving. And really, that was my original objective, make the car look good and handle well at a stock ride height. So the front control arms are in place so the bottom arm is level with the ground at ride height.

And really, thats what you want to do. Build the car for a specific ride height, the optimum ride height for the control arms, they only have ONE specific position (ride height) that they are controlling the tire (looking for the best tire contact patch during fast driving). All other ride heights put the control arms in a bad geometry and push or pull the tire out of riding flat to the ground.

The air ride is nice if you want to air down for a car show (or coastal pics), or need to air the car up to creep over some really large speed bumps.

But its NOT meant as a tuning tool to say lower the car for some fast driving. A lower car might handle better, but as long as the control arms are meant to be at that ride height.

If you lower the car further than what the control arms are meant to be at you will pull the top of the wheel in (more neg camber), and neg camber is nice to have sometimes. It forces the tire (the outside tire) to plant squarely on the road during hard turns.

But... If you already have enough neg camber in place at ride height and you increase it even more by dropping the suspension you might get into an over camber sitch where the tire (outside loaded tire) rolls in and is riding on its inside edge when it should be flat on the road. Thats a loss of traction.

Really, there is only one ride height.

The lowest hanging part that will interfere with the road is my headers. ERRRR!! I want to ditch them anyway. Long tube headers that just hang way too low. The collector is my hitting point on speed bumps If dont take it easy. All the rest of the exhaust, including the large mufflers is tucked up above the rockers, higher than the rockers.

I just went out and measured. Floor to the very bottom of the pinch weld on the bottom part of the rockers, 8". Thats at ride height.

Try not to get too caught up on it being low to handle. And remember, its not the springs (air or steel) that determine the ride height, its the control arms. You want to plant the rubber to the road. Thats the control arms.

Geometry first with the control arms then tuning with springs and shocks. JR

[wellis77]

Great explanation JR. I agree completely. Since I'm doing a full chassis build and adapting the Viper suspension, that gives me the latitude to mock the body at ride height, and build the chassis and suspension at that height. My plan is to build a chassis jig using the stock Viper pick-ups, cut everything out of the car, set the body at ride height, and build the chassis at the determined ride height using the stock pick-ups but adjusting the shock mount to accomodate the optimal shock height, which I've already gotten from Ride Tech. By doing that, I can set the chassis and body lower without messing up geometry. In a way I'm channeling the body over the chassis, then channeling the chassis over (or maybe under) the suspension. I've got some things on mounting control arms I need to figure out but I'll get to that in 4 weeks... Questions will be posted on this site for sure.

I think you did it right. Build it and get it running safely, beat the crap out of it while fine-tuning everything, then off to paint and interior. That will be the same MO I use. I want to get it on the street and the bugs worked out before I make it look good.

[JRouche]

Ok, first off Will. You sound like you have a great plan. Way more design work than I could accomplish. You really are going about it correctly, darn Swiss!! They always want to make things perfect. LOL Im jealous..

I got a lil lost with all the channeling. But I think I see it, and its pretty good.

So you have the suspension points locked in with the jig. Im assuming you are using stock wheel sizes or accounted for that. I think suspensions should be build around the wheels.

The wheels and tires come first, ones that will fit the package. Once you have that ride height, for the suspension links, not the body then its a matter of fitting the body over that suspension.

Sounds like what you are doing. Fixing the suspension up at the height you want and making the jig to mimic that suspension. Then fitting the body to that predetermined suspension's hard points. Then its just a matter of making mounting points for the body to the suspension at that height.

I like it!

It will be a custom ride height. But still, there will only be ONE ride height, and I think you know that. Some folks dont see it. They see air ride and adjustability. Its not adjustable for ride height.

Id love to see the viper arms under the car. They are prolly pretty nice pieces. I would think they are too long to fit under the car. But I guess I missed what type of car they are going into? They gotta be some pretty long arms.

Cant wait to see it all. PICS????

Oh? And your control arm questions, the mounting questions that you might have. What are they? Alot of great troubleshooters here. Toss out the mounting issues and Im sure you will get many ideas. I personally dont know anything about the Viper suspension, but Ill bet some folks here do. JR

[wellis77]

Sounds like you deciphered my code of what I'm doing. Yes setting up the suspension jig and dropping the body over up. There will be just one ride height, and that will be the standard Viper rider height, but the body is coming down over it.

To be honest, I haven't seen the Viper arms yet. While I am in Switzerland (and some of the Swiss precision/perfectionism has rubbed off on me), all my Viper parts are in a crate under the car in Grand Rapids, MI. I'll be back for 2 1/2 weeks over Christmas and 3 weeks in February going to town on the car putting in 10-12 hour days. I'll be sure to post more pics than I can imagine when I get back and get to work.

Questions on mounting control arm are really about what might be the best way to do it while making it as simple as possible to adjust and tweak alignment settings. I tried loading a pic of Viper front frame rails but my photobucket is on the frits. Viper Upper & Lower control arms both use eccentric bolts for mounting. What I would like to do, for ease of adjustability, is used a fixed mount for the LCA and make the UCA adjustable but convert it to a full cross shaft, or the C6 style that has the shorter shaft through each bushing (not sure what that is specifically called). I am just not sure if that's smart to do, or even doable considering the existing arms and bushings. The other component is the cost to do it. It would probably require either custom shafts or custom bushings, neither of which I have the capability to machine so I would need to source that. The rear control arms mount the same way, UCA & LCA both with eccentric bolts and I'd like to do the same but fix the uppers and make the lowers adjustable. Will probably use eccentric bolts for the lowers.

As for length of the arms, they are going on a '69 Dart and the Dart track is more narrow by about 2 inches front & 3 inches rear. Viper UCA brackets are welded to the side of the frame. I'm going to mount them to the top which will allow me to move them in just enough where I shouldn't have to narrow my rails too much, if at all. We'll see when I get it all mocked up. The big factor is how much will I have to tuck my wheels in order to get a good turning radius w/o rub considering my ride height. Once it's mocked up I'll get that all figured out and may have to make adjustments to ride height or rail width to make it all work.

Don't mean to muck-up your thread with my car JR. Thanks for the chat though.

[tommycomfort]

JR, Excellent build thread, I love the attention to detail. Thanks for sharing it with everyone!
Tom

[bret]

GREAT installation...grreat photography...great write up...do you need a job? :)

[JRouche]

Sounds like you deciphered my code of what I'm doing.

Don't mean to muck-up your thread with my car JR. Thanks for the chat though.

Well actually, you described it perfectly. More than not Im visual, Im not an engineer, so I need pics or hands on, or really good word pics. And you did that.

And UMMM, Im the one that went astray. Only because Im very interested in the car that you are building. Some points there that are pretty damm interesting, I just had to know. Thanks for sharing. Make sure to take some pics of the build and post them. WE ALL love the pictures!!! JR

[JRouche]

GREAT installation...grreat photography...great write up...do you need a job? :)

Haha!! Thanks Bret. No, Im happy with retirement. Gives me time to play with the car and all the great products available, yes, like what Air Ride is putting out. And really, Im not even trying to gain any brownie points. My bills are paid from the Los Angeles County retirement fund. So I dont get any money from any manufactures. So I dont mind commenting on a product that I think falls short. But also dont mind commenting on a product that exceeds my expectations.

More often than not Ill say when a product is just not working out or is not up to snuff IMO. Its easy to find the flaws in a product. Prolly cause we would like to have everything work out without any hitches. And with aftermarket products there ARE going to be some hiccups. But the diff between a hiccup and a complete failure is a fine line for some folks. Not me. I see a wide line there. And my part is working that wide line and making the line smaller so it comes together.

Bret, I like what you guys are doing. You are ALWAYS advancing. Kinda irritating in a way. Like if a guy just bought a controller then you come out with a new, better controller. Or a Shockwave then you put out a new one that is even nicer. Its like ERRR!! Wish I would have waited. But really, thats like chasing the Dragon. NO... I dont do drugs.

But chasing the Dragon for this example is like trying to follow a really fast animal through all of its moves and trying to keep up. Its not a fire breathing Dragon but an Air breathing Dragon (Air Ride Technologies). Its always progressing ahead, and all others are chasing it, trying to keep up, or stay out of its way.

Oh by the way, use any of the Dragon stuff without any payolla you will get sued!!!!! LOL!! Kidding, NOT :)

Yeah, no (can I say yes and no like that?) I love the stuff you guys are doing. Every time I drive my car it really amazes me. The handling I get from it is way beyond what I would have expected. Really comfortable on every road surface so far, and when I push it through the turns its just well, I dont know, effortless is all I can say. Im not fighting the suspension at all.

And it seems limitless, I need to be careful. I know there is a break away point there. Somewhere deep, I just need to find it on a closed track so I can get a real feel for it.

One last point. Undulating road surfaces. Like at freeway speeds. There are some where I can take any of my cars over and it will induce a bounce. And these are new car. And I can see it with all the other cars around me. One certain section of an over pass on the freeway. All the cars are bounding up and down like they all need new shocks. Its just a bad part of the road. I drive over it and I get one cycle of the many cycles that are normally felt. And Im not rock hard on my valving, havent even touched the valve yet, I think Im on the mid point where I set it for the building of it all.

My point. Air springs are not what they were years ago. They are not the bouncy balloons that some folks have come to know them as. With a proper shock (preferably an integrated shock and spring) they really can be a solid performance part for ANY street/track car. Things have come a long way since the 80s. JR