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boodlefoof
05-08-2005, 06:22 PM
Well, I've been mentioning the plans for this project for a few months on this site... now, it is time to start!

I went and picked up the new project car on Saturday... a 1973 Datsun 240Z. It is just a rolling chassis... only the body, suspension, tires and steering. But, it only cost $150 and it is pretty solid.

So, the plan...

1. customize the body by hand-sculpting some fiberglass body panels... staying true to the spirit of the Z, but allowing a little more room for some big tires and widening the track width a few inches on each side.

2. build a complete triangulated spaceframe chassis from scratch.

3. design and build custom front and rear suspension and then add brakes and steering.

4. plop the modified Z body down on the spaceframe and then put together the floor.

5. Install a healthy forced induction FI small block backed with a 6 speed manual trans and rear geared for high speeds.

6. slap in an interior.

7. try to reach the 200mph barrier...

Let the fun begin!!!

For some pics and a writeup of the project, check out my website. Click the link in my sig' and click the "Project Racer-Z" link. I'll keep updating as I get work done.

If you try the page and it says I've exceeded my bandwidth... forgive me. Geocities shuts me down for an hour or two when I get too much traffick.

kmcanally
05-08-2005, 06:35 PM
nice...have you seen http://www.servinitup.com/pictures/240z/small/small72.jpg

check out this Z at www.darius240z.com....

boodlefoof
05-08-2005, 06:39 PM
Yup, I've been over to Darius' site a few times. I also got some info on his fender flares from him a month or two back. Nice looking car.

Ralph LoGrasso
05-08-2005, 09:17 PM
John,

Keep us updated on the project, sounds very cool. I love 240Zs, especially PT'd ones.

boodlefoof
05-09-2005, 05:15 AM
Oh I'll definitely post project updates whenever I get through some work. I'll also try to update my Geocities site regularly.

This summer, my goal is to get through most (if not all) of the fiberglass body molding. If I'm really lucky... I might be able to even get it primed and ready for paint this summer! We'll see what my time allows.

andy
05-09-2005, 06:58 PM
You probably have already seen, but this site has a great deal of usable info:http://www.hybridz.org/

boodlefoof
05-10-2005, 05:43 AM
Yup, I became a member of Hybridz a few months back. The inspiration for the rendering of this project came from putting together influences of a few of the member's cars over there.

trapin
05-10-2005, 12:12 PM
There's a guy in the shops where I work that did a complete ground up restoration of one of those cars. He did an amazing job on it....looks like he just drove it home from the Datsun dealership. He usually brings it to the employee car show in June. I'll try to get some shots of it for you. Sounds like a cool project.

yody
05-11-2005, 03:36 PM
wow! sounds hard! how many frames have you built already? i like those cars

boodlefoof
05-11-2005, 05:57 PM
trapin,

I'd love to see pics. I think the Z cars look great stock or otherwise.

yody,

Haven't built a frame yet, this will be the first time. But, I've got about a dozen designs on the computer program I'm using! ;)

It will be a learning experience. I've consulted with a few others who have built similar frames, and I'm confident that I can do it. Will just take a lot of time.

boodlefoof
05-18-2005, 06:19 PM
Well, I've been hammer forming some patch panels and welding them in... piece by piece it is coming together. Soon, I'll have the body ready for the fiberglass layup.

Before doing the 'glass though... I'm planning to first chop the top! Hopefully I will do that this weekend and have some pics for you all! = )

boodlefoof
07-09-2005, 06:47 PM
Here is an update...

After chopping the top, I began sculpting the body into its new shape with foam. I've finished the foaming process and will be laying the fiberglass soon (going to start tomorrow)!

Here are a few pics of what it is going to look like when all is said and done...

MrQuick
07-09-2005, 10:37 PM
Looks great John, you might want to extend the rear bumper and incorperate a diffuser. Your going to need it at 250MPH. Keep up the great work

Blue70
07-10-2005, 04:24 AM
I still can't get over how good that roofline looks now with the chop.. :worship:

Are you going to make the nose and fenders one piece or are you going to seam it somewhere?

I do have a question, I know you sculpt the foam into the shape you want, but now what? Do you fiberglass right over the foam and sand it all smooth, or do you create a mold with the foam and then gelcoat and lay fiberglass in the mold? :dunno:

If you could give me a quick rundown on the process that would be great

boodlefoof
07-10-2005, 12:32 PM
I've actually been thinking about a diffuser but I will have to look into it more. The car is going to have a perfectly flat bottom at present, and I think adding the diffuser won't be too difficult... just need to figure out a design and see if my ground clearance will allow it.

Blue70,

Thank you! The front end is going to be built in three sections (fender, nose, fender) and then I will glass the pieces together to make it seamless. Same goes for the rear (quarter, lower tail pan, quarter). Then I'm going to fab up a hood.

Yes, basically I'm just laying the fiberglass over top of the foam now. I just did the first quarter panel this morning. Man, it takes awhile! Took about 4 hours to lay down four layers (two layers of 7.5 oz and two of 4 oz). This is my first attempt at fiberglassing, so we'll see how it turns out... hopefully the thing doesn't fall apart on me!

Blue70
07-12-2005, 03:11 PM
I know it's only been two days, but how is the fiberglassing going?

I can't wait to see this car progress https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2005/06/popc1-1.gif

Piet
07-12-2005, 03:25 PM
Nice work so far.
Will need more pictures... of course

TonyHuntimer
07-12-2005, 05:09 PM
Another trick to building flares (if you are building molds) is to use expanding foam to build the overall shape, then use drywall tape to cover the foam, then use wall-joint compound as the final layer. The wall-joint compound can be sanded and added to very easily. It also leaves a very fine smooth finish to work with before using the gell coat. lay the fiberglass over the gell coat to make the mold (with re-enforcements to make the mold rigid). Now you can make a bunch of parts, and with the mold you can get the desired thickness of the fiberglass or carbon fiber.

Tony Huntimer
RaceHome.com

Supra510
07-12-2005, 11:27 PM
Looks like you're off to a good start. If you haven't, check out Bluovals (sp.) over on www.hybridz.org He has done extensive mods with fiberglass similar to what you are doing. I'm sure there's a few posts on it that would help.

Anthony
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/674663

boodlefoof
07-13-2005, 06:02 AM
Blueovalz has been very helpful with my questions on this project. He has a very cool car. Before I saw his car I had a rough idea of what I wanted to do, then his work inspired me to go out and do it.

The fiberglassing is coming along... It is slow work though and this is my first ever attempt at fiberglassing. I've got one quarter panel and the lower tail pan laid up. I started work on one of the fenders last night... I'm hoping that I will be done laying up the fiberglass by the end of next weekend.

Then, time for all that nasty sanding... Unfortunately, with all of the compound curves on the quarter panel I have a few air pockets. = ( I'm going to sand those down and fill them with more cloth and resin.

Will post pics when I have some to post.

toddshotrods
07-15-2005, 08:41 AM
...then use wall-joint compound as the final layer. The wall-joint compound can be sanded and added to very easily. It also leaves a very fine smooth finish to work with before using the gell coat.

Joint compound is one of my absolute favorites for building plugs. Coming from an autobody background it just works best. It is easy to apply, non-toxic, ridiculously easy to shape, and (as Tony said) leaves a very nice surface. I even use drywall sanding screens on flat panels to help finish.

I am working on a new modeling material to build the foundation out of, and will give the details on it when I start the Camaro's new front clip. It will be the perfect foundation to put the joint compound over. Water-based and non-toxic.

On my driver, because I wanted to be able to drive the car while I work on it, I laid up undersized fiberglass and am using foam and body filler to develop the final shape. When that is done I will pull molds off it and make the real parts. The plugs will be removed and discarded and the new parts installed. The other advantage to making molds if if the unthinkable happens you can make repair panels without starting from scratch. That was a big consideration for me since the car is my driver.

One more tip. When you get your new fiberglass parts all laid up - put 'em in the sun! It needs to cure out fully. High-end fiberglass parts are actually oven cured so that when you bolt them on your car and venture out into the sunlight they won't change shape on you. I actually like making new parts in the summer so I can put them outside in the mornings and let them go through temperature cycles for a week or so. I am going to talk to a local powdercoater, who has an oven big enough to fit a car in, about "baking" my parts for me when the 90* days are over, because I will most likely be laying-up my drivers 'glass this winter.

rodknocker
07-15-2005, 03:48 PM
what kind of expanding foam did you use and where can it be bought? I have some ideas for the interior of my project and that might be the way to get it done. thanks alot for your help

Ps. The car looks awesome so far, keep it up!!!!

boodlefoof
07-15-2005, 06:32 PM
Thanks guys!

Yes, I've noticed that while the can of resin said it would fully cure in roughly 24 hours, the stuff got much harder letting it sit longer. I have been putting it out in the sun to bake a bit as well as I go. I hadn't though about doing it for the purpose of curing... I just did it because I needed some space in the garage!

The foam I used actually isn't expanding foam. I used "dry floral foam." It comes in green rectangular blocks and can be found at most craft stores.

rodknocker
07-15-2005, 07:33 PM
you didn't have a problem with the fiberglass resin eating away the foam blocks? I would think it would at least deform them. That resin is some mean stuff. Thanks and if you guys have any more details I would love to hear them..........

boodlefoof
07-16-2005, 04:36 AM
Well, I haven't had any problem with the resin eating the foam or distorting it at all. The idea to use this foam was recommended to me by someone who has done a lot of this sort of work.

All the same, as you can see from the photos, I made sure to cover the foam with duck tape to insulate it from the resin just in case.

The tape also served a second function though... Because these foam blocks are very rigid (they can't bend at all) and the fenders and such are curved, you end up getting gaps between the foam blocks. You could cut little pie shaped pieces to fill all of the gaps, but I just decided to tightly pull tape across the gaps to bridge them.

I have been putting all of the information about the project on my website. www.geocities.com/boodlefoof If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

Blue70
07-16-2005, 06:29 AM
Very nice!

A lot more pictures, I now have a better understanding of what you've done and how you've done it.

Your page is now bookmarked :cheers:

toddshotrods
07-16-2005, 10:14 AM
The green floral foam is pretty stable with polyester resin. I have used it to model small parts and then painted the entire thing with resin to preserve the shape. IIRC it does shrink back slightly, but I just compensated for this in the finishing work. Using duct tape would definitely solve that problem.

If your gaps weren't too big, you could have also filled them with plaster.

You can also buy sheets of polyester foam board, or the two-part mix that is made for working with fiberglass resins. It all depends on what type of resin you're using. Polyester resins are merciless on a lot of materials, but epoxy resin can even be used with styrofoam. Styrofoam is much cheaper but you'll pay for it on the other end, because the epoxy resin isn't cheap. Another plus to epoxy resins is that you can get slow catalysts which give you much more working time. You can slow the curing time on polyester resins by reducing the amount of MEKP but you have to make sure to get enough to make it cure or you'll have a big sticky mess on your hands. Then it also depends of whether you're using mat or cloth... There's a special mat for epoxy resin, but I haven't used it and don't remember the price.

Are you using mat or cloth?

boodlefoof
07-16-2005, 02:49 PM
I've had to tinker with the amount of MEKP I use with my polyester resin. The jug says to use 1%, but with how warm it has been (90+ degrees) the stuff cures in my bucket in about 10 minutes. I cut back to between .5% and .75% and it seems to work better. Feels hard and tacky after about 5 hours and feels dry to the touch after a day. After two days, it is rock hard.

I'm using cloth. two - three layers of 7.5 oz and then topping with two more layers of 4 oz.

boodlefoof
07-20-2005, 09:17 AM
Well, finally got all of the fiberglass laid! (except for filling a few low spots and making reinforcements on the back side of the panels once I pop them off the car).

I'll try to post pics soon.

trapin
07-20-2005, 04:23 PM
Looks great John, you might want to extend the rear bumper and incorperate a diffuser. Your going to need it at 250MPH. Keep up the great work
Oh my God, Vince...you're hillarious. You almost made me choke on my sandwich. Either no one else thought that was funny or they just didn't get it.

John, there were 850 cars at the employee car show and wouldn't you know it but that joker wasn't one of them. I went down to yell at him the next day and he said he'll snap a few photos for you when he gets a chance. I'll fire them off to you when I get them. Looks like a really involved and innovative project. I can't wait to see it completed.

Hey, I just looked at your website and being the nosy b@stard that I am I went into your wedding page and noticed that your getting married in about 2 and a half weeks. Holy crap...2 and a half weeks, John!!!! You guys gotta be gettin' pretty excited.

Before I got married all my friends told me that it would be the fastest day of my life. You know what? They were right. It all happened in the blink of an eye. If I could offer any advice...try to keep that from happening. Soak it all in because if all goes well, this will be the one and only time you do this.

Good luck to both of you if I don't talk to you before then. :cheers:

Rick Dorion
07-21-2005, 04:12 AM
Looking great, John. On your bodywork page, the last 'next page' to see the glassing doesn't work. I'm impressed!

boodlefoof
07-23-2005, 12:49 PM
Pics are up at:

http://www.geocities.com/boodlefoof/Project_Racer-Zfiberglass6.html

rodknocker
07-24-2005, 02:47 AM
lookin good!!!

How do you plan to get a smooth finish on the fiberglass, Gelcoat it after the fact? Oh and got my speed glass in the other day...... cool stuff.

boodlefoof
07-24-2005, 07:36 AM
Thanks guys!

Yup, getting married in two weeks! I'm very excited! :) I'll try not to let it all rush past. Everyone tells me the same thing... fastest day of your life.

As for smoothing the fiberglass... today I'm going to start sanding. I've got a 7'' orbital sander and plan on using 36, then 100, then 220 and then hand sand with 600 after using a little Evercoat body filler if necessary. Then I'll lay a few coats of high build primer. I asked the guys at www.fibreglast.com about using a gel coat, and they said that if I went with high build primer that the gel coat wouldn't be necessary.

I'm really hoping it will come out smooth. Any suggestions on getting it to look smooth are welcome.

Oh boy, sanding time! ;)

toddshotrods
07-24-2005, 06:48 PM
They gave you great advice. I rarely ever use gelcoat, and always finish my parts with building primer. I never liked the long-term effects of sun and weather on gelcoat, so I strayed away from it.

The best recommendation I can give you is go buy a bunch of those paper painter's suits, wear long gloves that the sleeves of the paper suit tuck into, and if you can stand it a painter's hood and some googles. Anytime I have as much raw fiberglass sanding to do as you're about to do I even tape the gloves tight around the sleeves and my boots.

All this of course is to keep that dust off your body! One, you'll remove layers of skin scratching if you don't. Two, it's really not supposed to be on your skin anyway. The resin has some nasty chemicals in it, and you're shaving it off in tiny little particles.

Above all - WEAR A DUST MASK!!! You were wearing a chemical respirator when you did your lay-ups right? You definitely shouldn't be pumping fiberglass dust or vapors into your lungs.

I use my shop vac a lot when sanding on fiberglass, but it may not work so well for what you're doing. Over time I have perfected my techniques to the point that I can work all day in the stuff now and not scratch at all when I finish.

Oh yeah: You're supposed to take a cold shower to get the stuff off you! If you take a hot shower, it supposedly opens your pores and makes the itching worse.

Use guide coats. A thin layer or primer, in a contrasting color, sprayed on before you start sanding to see what you're doing and how far you have to go.

boodlefoof
07-25-2005, 10:24 AM
Yup, been wearing a respirator and taking cold showers to get the stuff off. I did my first sanding go-over on Sunday with the 7'' orbital and some 36 grit. Managed to get some up my sleeve... nasty stuff. Quite a nuisance.

Unfortunately, I had a few high spots that opened up air holes with sanding. Now that I've sanded those down, I'm going to do a little more patch work with the 4oz mat. Then, I'll sand with my 100 grit disks.

Todd,

Any recommendations on fillers to use if any? I don't know if I'll be able to get it completely smooth by just sanding. There are a few small dips (1/8'' tops) that I really need to build up rather than sanding down the adjacent areas. Would it be appropriate to use a skim coat of filler to even out some low spots? Or, would it be better to cut small pieces of fiberglass cloth and build it with that? I've been looking at Evercoat's "Kitty Hair" and "Rage Gold."

toddshotrods
07-26-2005, 06:24 AM
I like to use a real fiberglass filler for that. I don't really like Kitty Hair and Tiger Hair. It's basically just body filler with fiberglass strands in it. The real fillers I referred to are some type of filler material mixed with resin, to the consistency you desire. You can mix it to the same consistency as body filler and apply it with the same type of plastic spreaders. The advantage is it is STRONG! Instead of merely filling the void, it becomes a structural part of your piece. Make sure you sand the void out to get good adhesion.

As for filler material: You can purchase milled fiberglass mat or cotton flock from your supplier or you can improvise. I use the same green floral blocks you used to build your flares. I just run them across a wood rasp and make a bucket full of filler material. Then when I need it I just grab some.

The only down side I have seen in using this is it is hard as a rock. When it jells you can use the wood rasp to level it, then sand with your DA when it fully cures. Go easy with the rasp because a heavy hand can knock big chunks out. If you have a lot of areas to do, spread your work around. Fill a spot here, then one over there, just like welding sheet metal. The heat from the curing process could actually warp your part if you get too much going in one place. That's not really common but possible, so why risk it.

FoxGranadaChuck
07-26-2005, 09:40 AM
This project definitely reminds me of one in which Hot Rod magazine took part in the mid-1980's. It was called 240Z/28, and was basically built to promote Super Shops (now defunct).
The body modifications that were performed by Rob Spoon on that car were really cool. I only wished that they had kept the original IRS instead of installing a narrowed Ford 9-inch rear-end!
But that's just me.

73z-6sp
07-30-2005, 06:08 PM
Holy Z car man! Very cool project! I love the chopped roofline! Im not "seeing" exactly what you are doing with the hatch but it looks good so far. I have a 280 that I am finishing up a 240 bumper conversion on. I fell in love with the Z car when I was 14 or so. My brother had one and it was sooooo different than anything that was around my small town. I cant wait to see your finished product!


These guys are quite the purists but you may still find the site helpful.

www.classiczcars.com (http://www.classiczcars.com)

Keep us posted!

Aaron