RSX302 Future--Engine Poll...

[RSX302]

I've had a blast with the little Twin Turbo Ford 302 in my Camaro, but I think it's time to say good-bye to it. My main concern is the future sale of the car--if that ever happens.

Even though I did this for fun and already had the motor, I was thinking to myself--Ford guy's wouldn't buy a Camaro with a Ford in it and Chevy guy's would definitely not buy it. The biggest mind change was when I asked myself if I would buy it...I have to say that was a big NO.

I'm kicking some ideas around and thought I would poll it.

Since money is a factor, this plays a roll in the package. Of course the goal is to get as much horsepower as possible and lighten the front end if possible. I will use my twin turbo system that I already have. I was going to try and keep the whole changeover under $15K. Since clutch, Bellhousing/Input shaft and possibly paint will absorb $4-5K, I figure target for the engine complete should be $10K.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Declawed69]

Ford FTW!:yeah:

Do you take monopoly money?

[SatisTraction]

lsx!!

beautiful car but i would puke if i seen a ford 302 under the hood. All that said i am a ford guy!

[streetrod77]

I'm crazy about both Ford and Chevy. But I would only buy a Chevy with a Chevy power plant.

[CarlC]

Does the budget include using any of the current dry sump components? That starts to add up in a hurry.

If the budget allows it the LS engine would be a better long-term investment. Getting it all done (headers, electrical, engine, etc.) for $10k might be tight.

[Vegas69]

You already shot yourself in the foot with the Ford engine. Do it right the second time.

[ArtosDracon]

Aluminum 302 sbc w/ your turbo stuff, should be a fun ride.

[RSX302]

Thanks everyone..This is great stuff...keep it rollin!

[dipren443]

Anyone destroked an LS to 302 cubes??? That would be fantastic. Keep your graphics that way...

[RSX302]

Does the budget include using any of the current dry sump components? That starts to add up in a hurry.

If the budget allows it the LS engine would be a better long-term investment. Getting it all done (headers, electrical, engine, etc.) for $10k might be tight.

There is a very good possibility to use the dry sump stuff. The main cost is in the pump and AN fittings which I have. The only thing that would take some extra work (money) is the front pulley system if I get the LS engine. If I look to Wegner, there goes another $2200. I need the front distributor conversion kit ($400) for the LS engine and use my Ford Accel dual sync distributor. This will allow me to use my Gen 7 fuel injection and keep the cost down.

Your right on the $10K being tight for a complete LS. Definitely won't be an LS7 that's for sure! LS1..LS2..LSx? Just need to get more info on sleeves. LSx looks to be the best way in terms of overall strength, but if I can lighten the front end with the aluminum block, that would be a bonus. I was also thinking of removing the intercooler (45lbs). This will also give me a little better cooling during the 100+ deg days at Willow.

[RSX302]

You already shot yourself in the foot with the Ford engine. Do it right the second time.

Since I had the Ford engine before the Camaro, I look at it as prolonging the inevitable!

We will now try and make it right!:)

[RSX302]

Anyone destroked an LS to 302 cubes??? That would be fantastic. Keep your graphics that way...

LS302? I'm sure anything is possible with enough money.

This is why I was looking at the Aluminum SBC 350 Block (World Products) with the 4"bore x 3"stroke and 6" rods. Haven't seen this combo with a Twin Turbo system. Would be different in today's stroker world. Would be the same power curve as the Ford..Which me likes!

I'm affraid I would get people asking me...why do you have the Ford stripe on your car?

[Vegas69]

Gotcha, now it makes sense.

[steinepstein]

358 SB2.2 w/twin turbo

1000+ hp at 8000rpm

[Van B]

Anyone destroked an LS to 302 cubes??? That would be fantastic. Keep your graphics that way...

I believe it was done as a part of a magazine article probably 10 years ago. Hot Rod IIRC. Norm Brandes at Westech Automotive in Wisconsin built it.

[406 Q-ship]

Ron build a 302 LSx with the twin turbos for the Camaro. I would find a home for the Ford 302 like a 1968 or 69 Torino GT that has it's suspension tweeked.

[compos mentis]

The LS 302 has been done. Using a LS6 block is the way to go.

A guy on this forum is doing a twin turbo LT-5. They draw a crowd with the hood popped. Nothing looks like those things. Here's one with a modded intake.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/IMG_8827-1.jpg



At the link there's a slightly used LT-5 for $3500. Those things were all assembled like race motors. Very durable motors.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4189

[RSX302]

358 SB2.2 w/twin turbo

1000+ hp at 8000rpm

Ta heII with the budget right! LOL

[SVTforme]

Ron build a 302 LSx with the twin turbos for the Camaro. I would find a home for the Ford 302 like a 1968 or 69 Torino GT that has it's suspension tweeked.

Great answer.. I can find you a nice Torino to make the 302 feel at home :).

I am all about the corruption of a Ford in a Chevy or vise versa, but resale is definitely an issue with that equation. Most would prefer an LS motor in a Camaro.

[RSX302]

Ron build a 302 LSx with the twin turbos for the Camaro. I would find a home for the Ford 302 like a 1968 or 69 Torino GT that has it's suspension tweeked.


If the Ford 302 doesn't sell, that is exactly what I was planning on doing. Maybe not the Torino--even though I like them.

I would love to find something smaller for the autocross events. Most of those courses are tiny and just doesn’t do the bigger cars justice. (example; AC Cobra at Optima Street Car Invitational)

Do I hear Sunbeam Tiger with monster wheels and 500hp!:screwy::scared:

[RSX302]

The LS 302 has been done. Using a LS6 block is the way to go.

A guy on this forum is doing a twin turbo LT-5. They draw a crowd with the hood popped. Nothing looks like those things. Here's one with a modded intake.



At the link there's a slightly used LT-5 for $3500. Those things were all assembled like race motors. Very durable motors.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4189


Yes, that engine is a definite showpiece!

[ArtosDracon]

I like the idea of a LSx 302 with the twin turbos, would be pretty cheap too. GMPP aluminum block with 4" bore is about $1700, tough part would be the crank, though I'm sure someone like callies or eagle, maybe lunati could whip you up one pretty easily.

[Memphis]

A .060 over 4.8 would be like 302. If you want an aluminum block, people have taken LS2 blocks over 1500hp and you should be able to find one reasonably cheap.

[Payton King]

glad to see you are still around.

I have a friend that has 9:1 Busch motor with 18 degree heads. It needs to be freshened but has a 5 stage dry sump and will handle 1200 HP pretty easy. It makes about 720 hp now. Complete from intake to oil pan. He also has a kinsler individual runner intake used on a Pontiac GTP car. Just like what Stielow put on the Mule when he was building it. He was going to twin turbo it as well, but never got around to it. Would you like be to check on a price? I think it will be well below your budget.

[6'9"Witha69]

You already shot yourself in the foot with the Ford engine. Do it right the second time.
Mike agrees:
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[406 Q-ship]

If the Ford 302 doesn't sell, that is exactly what I was planning on doing. Maybe not the Torino--even though I like them.

I would love to find something smaller for the autocross events. Most of those courses are tiny and just doesn’t do the bigger cars justice. (example; AC Cobra at Optima Street Car Invitational)

Do I hear Sunbeam Tiger with monster wheels and 500hp!:screwy::scared:

There used to be a local here that had a turbo Boss 302 in a Tiger with fender flares, it looked more like a Cobra than a Sunbeam Tiger.

I just think a Torino is too cool because you don't see many and then none are Pro-touring (sorry to someone if they have done one)

American iron from the 1960's and 70's is always at a disadvantage on SCCA auto-x due to their size, most of the courses at done by a person with a Golf, S2000, or a Miata. If you find a course set up by a Corvette driver then real fun with big car is had.

Another home for that Ford, how about modifing one of the Factory Five GTMs.

[DynoDon]

I'd leave that Ford motor right where it is. Worry about it if and when you decide to sell the car! Everywhere in the car building hobby guys stick those lumps known as SBC's in anything and everything and no one says boo. But put a Ford or Mopar somewhere and they all get their panties in a wad.
I love the fact that you dared to be different. Quit worrying about it and keep having fun. And for those that don't like it :spank2:

AS for sticking that motor in a Tiger with big wheels, I had one back in the 70's and it was unbeatable in Autocross back then. The problem is even a clapped out Tiger is gonna cost a small fortune now.

[ill steez]

I'd go with a destroked LS to a 302, and ditch the side graphics... maybe run some modernized Z28 graphics, since those originally came with the 302.

[Kenova]

I would love to find something smaller for the autocross events. Most of those courses are tiny and just doesn’t do the bigger cars justice. (example; AC Cobra at Optima Street Car Invitational)

If you go looking for a new home for the Ford engine, take a look at the Maverick.
If you are looking to build a smaller than usual LS engine, you could always stuff a 4.8 Crank in a 6.0 block with longer aftermarket rods. Just keep in mind that the crank would be the weak link, but with the shorter stroke it just might be stronger than most would give it credit for. This would give you in the neighborhood of 327 ci. That would be a small enough increase that your current turbo system could probably still keep up.

Ken

[SimplyKC]

If you go looking for a new home for the Ford engine, take a look at the Maverick.
If you are looking to build a smaller than usual LS engine, you could always stuff a 4.8 Crank in a 6.0 block with longer aftermarket rods. Just keep in mind that the crank would be the weak link, but with the shorter stroke it just might be stronger than most would give it credit for. This would give you in the neighborhood of 327 ci. That would be a small enough increase that your current turbo system could probably still keep up.

Ken

That's an awful lot of work to build a 5.3.

[CarlC]

Build a 400ci+ LS3 block with lower boost. Tell everyone it's a 302.

What, you gonna call me a liar!?

Technically, if you build a 402 the first six cylinders are 302ci.

[93Polo]

The LS 302 has been done. Using a LS6 block is the way to go.

A guy on this forum is doing a twin turbo LT-5. They draw a crowd with the hood popped. Nothing looks like those things. Here's one with a modded intake.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/IMG_8827-1.jpg



At the link there's a slightly used LT-5 for $3500. Those things were all assembled like race motors. Very durable motors.

http://www.zr1.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4189

The last siamese runner plenum I saw like that went for $3,500. I do love the sound and looks of the LT5.

I vote LS power, if the turbo manifold are tubular you maybe able to weld on LS flanges as the bore space is close with minimal mods to the entire turbo system.

[csx4766]

If you selling the long block what are you asking for it? Maybe I missed where you give the details and said how much you are selling the ford motor to offset the cost.

[Kenova]

That's an awful lot of work to build a 5.3.
I like to think of it as the better way to build a 5.3. The bigger bore improves breathing and the longer rods combined with the shorter stroke reduces the acceleration and deceleration forces the piston/rods see, along with a decrease in the side loads that are seen by the cylinder walls.

Ken

[steinepstein]

I really like what you have now, super creative, original, and rips on the track.

What about taking what you have and making it more badass, I think that would be the best bang for the buck.

You could probably get that motor out of there, drop some poundage, change the internals around and add another 250hp, and easy to put it back in. I think it would be awesome to have that motor turn 8500 rpm and make 950+ hp.

Coil over plug setup
New heads
Longer rods
220 - 221, whatever it takes

Oh yea, keep the sticker. Nothing better than some guy looking at you shaking his head and then you blow him away.

[MichaelUser]

I like the idea of a 1000HP duramax with a paddle-shifted Allison
The lswhatever is getting a little long in the tooth.
Ohh, maybe the new coyote ford motor..

[RSX302]

I like the idea of a LSx 302 with the twin turbos, would be pretty cheap too. GMPP aluminum block with 4" bore is about $1700, tough part would be the crank, though I'm sure someone like callies or eagle, maybe lunati could whip you up one pretty easily.


A .060 over 4.8 would be like 302. If you want an aluminum block, people have taken LS2 blocks over 1500hp and you should be able to find one reasonably cheap.


Build a 400ci+ LS3 block with lower boost. Tell everyone it's a 302.

What, you gonna call me a liar!?

Technically, if you build a 402 the first six cylinders are 302ci.

Carl, you do have a way with words...LOL

As much as I would like to use an LS2 or 3 aluminum block, I'm hearing the downside to them is the stock cylinder sleeves above 600hp. Drops 30+hp not to mention major blowby. I hate blowby!

The LSx seems to be excessive for what I'm doing. I'm all for putting the money where it needs to be..but?

What about the LQ9 block? ($800new) Would it be better then the stock sleeves in the aluminum blocks at 700-800hp?

Set-up the LQ9 with forged parts (4.00x3.622 =364ci) at 8.8 or 9:1cr and 10psi non intercooled boost. With the LS3/L92 heads, this combo should yield a minimum 700hp/600tq.. (which is over 100 more tq then I had with the Ford) Get Texas Speeds LS3/L92 heads and 800hp is had at 7000rpm.

[RSX302]

glad to see you are still around.

I have a friend that has 9:1 Busch motor with 18 degree heads. It needs to be freshened but has a 5 stage dry sump and will handle 1200 HP pretty easy. It makes about 720 hp now. Complete from intake to oil pan. He also has a kinsler individual runner intake used on a Pontiac GTP car. Just like what Stielow put on the Mule when he was building it. He was going to twin turbo it as well, but never got around to it. Would you like be to check on a price? I think it will be well below your budget.

Hey Payton, Yea I'm still kickn'

I've been going crazy without the power pulls since the end of last year. I need to have Larry give me a ride in his...LOL

Here I fix my brakes and installed the new Rick's Tank and both have only had one or two outtings.

Send me some info/pics of the engine. Thx
[email protected]

[67cougnut]

what are you talking about? this is the only camaro id buy! the most apealing thing about this car is the motor setup and paint scheme it really sets it apart from all the other ls camaros

[RSX302]

If you selling the long block what are you asking for it? Maybe I missed where you give the details and said how much you are selling the ford motor to offset the cost.

$9900
https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69658

[RSX302]

I like to think of it as the better way to build a 5.3. The bigger bore improves breathing and the longer rods combined with the shorter stroke reduces the acceleration and deceleration forces the piston/rods see, along with a decrease in the side loads that are seen by the cylinder walls.

Ken

I love "Big Bores" shorter stroke engines. They are so :cool: to run.

I was entertaining a normally aspirated all Aluminum Big Block.. 4.500 x 3.760 (478ci) until the cash hit me...I would still dig it!

[RSX302]

There used to be a local here that had a turbo Boss 302 in a Tiger with fender flares, it looked more like a Cobra than a Sunbeam Tiger.

I just think a Torino is too cool because you don't see many and then none are Pro-touring (sorry to someone if they have done one)

American iron from the 1960's and 70's is always at a disadvantage on SCCA auto-x due to their size, most of the courses at done by a person with a Golf, S2000, or a Miata. If you find a course set up by a Corvette driver then real fun with big car is had.

Another home for that Ford, how about modifing one of the Factory Five GTMs.

Before the Camaro I was checking out the Ultima GTR and GT40 kits.

I dig the GTM, but it's off the vette plateform...not to say it couldn't be changed.

I'm kinda liking the 33 Hot Rod....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[compos mentis]

I'm kinda liking the 33 Hot Rod....
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Agreed.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/33hr-1.jpg

[RSX302]

I'd leave that Ford motor right where it is. Worry about it if and when you decide to sell the car! Everywhere in the car building hobby guys stick those lumps known as SBC's in anything and everything and no one says boo. But put a Ford or Mopar somewhere and they all get their panties in a wad.
I love the fact that you dared to be different. Quit worrying about it and keep having fun. And for those that don't like it :spank2:

AS for sticking that motor in a Tiger with big wheels, I had one back in the 70's and it was unbeatable in Autocross back then. The problem is even a clapped out Tiger is gonna cost a small fortune now.

I was previously thinking of doing just that and that's why I rebuilt the Ford, but, there is a lot of work to putting it back in the car. Now is a good time as any to swap out and reduce my labor. If it was still in the car and running, it would have stayed a while longer. But I broke it and here we are..LOL

[ArtosDracon]

If you're gonna go BBC then go BIG, ~640 is the biggest I think I've seen before, you could figure out 604ci and it would just be like a pair of 302s, lol!

[T_Raven]

As much as I like the Ford engine in there, since you are concerned about resale value, I voted go LS. It makes no sense to build a small block anymore.

[compos mentis]

If LS is the type of motor you decide on I'd wait till you find a great deal on a LS7. I think it's the best choice for resale too. Lots of cachet with those motors it seems. No mystery/KIS principle.

[RSX302]

Photoshop with no stripe..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Kenova]

I love "Big Bores" shorter stroke engines. They are so :cool: to run.

I was entertaining a normally aspirated all Aluminum Big Block.. 4.500 x 3.760 (478ci) until the cash hit me...I would still dig it!
OH YEAH!! That would make you pitch a tent!:twothumbs

Ken

[72NovaSS]

Photoshop with no stripe..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Thats Baddddddddddd :smoke:

[93Polo]

Carl, you do have a way with words...LOL

As much as I would like to use an LS2 or 3 aluminum block, I'm hearing the downside to them is the stock cylinder sleeves above 600hp. Drops 30+hp not to mention major blowby. I hate blowby!

The LSx seems to be excessive for what I'm doing. I'm all for putting the money where it needs to be..but?

What about the LQ9 block? ($800new) Would it be better then the stock sleeves in the aluminum blocks at 700-800hp?

Set-up the LQ9 with forged parts (4.00x3.622 =364ci) at 8.8 or 9:1cr and 10psi non intercooled boost. With the LS3/L92 heads, this combo should yield a minimum 700hp/600tq.. (which is over 100 more tq then I had with the Ford) Get Texas Speeds LS3/L92 heads and 800hp is had at 7000rpm.

I would run a LS6, LS2, or LQ4/LQ9 block. The area between the bores does get thin past a 4" bore and head gaskets are the weak link on LS motors due to the 4 bolt heads.

Plenty of LS6 blocks are running 700+rwhp with Forced Induction on a stock crank. I would also lean towards aftermarket heads for the thicker deck which will help keep the head gasket from going which are only available with catherdral ports now. The exhaust ports on the LS3/L92 heads also tend not keep up with the intake port as well requiring more exhaust duration.

[RSX302]

I would run a LS6, LS2, or LQ4/LQ9 block. The area between the bores does get thin past a 4" bore and head gaskets are the weak link on LS motors due to the 4 bolt heads.

Plenty of LS6 blocks are running 700+rwhp with Forced Induction on a stock crank. I would also lean towards aftermarket heads for the thicker deck which will help keep the head gasket from going which are only available with catherdral ports now. The exhaust ports on the LS3/L92 heads also tend not keep up with the intake port as well requiring more exhaust duration.

What's the difference with the stock LS6 block sleeves vs any of the others?

I'm finding that all the stock LS blocks are capable of holding high hp, but at the cost of sleeve expansion and blowby.

I'm also catching the hint with the stock heads. I'm thinking AFR,Allpro...etc will be necessary.

Since the Ford is 10 bolt, I'm use to the sealing issue..My 302 uses 1/2" studs, Cometic MLS gasket and Permatex spray head sealer. No issues what so ever at 750-800hp. All surfaces are better than 15ra. I found this was key to the seal.

Thx for the info!

[coolwelder62]

How about a 440 wegde mopar.:fingersx:

[srh3trinity]

I am a Chevy guy, but Coolwelder's idea is pretty funny. Probably not going to help your resale value. I am liking this World block that allows you to use SBC internals with the top end from an LSX. That would allow you to go after a whole different bore/stroke combos and be strong enough for FI. It is however and iron block motor. http://www.worldcastings.com/products/motown-ls-iron-block.html

[twosaturns]

isn't it true that LS heads bolt on to a SBF? just do that, throw on a custom runner manifold or carb intake and tell everyone it's a hybrid!
or, howabout a GM 3.6 V6 w/ a monster turbo hanging off the front. stock w/o turbo is over 300hp. set it way back, good weight distribution.
just somethjing different; on this site anyways, it seems everyones got a 1st gen camaro w/ an LS.

[RSX302]

isn't it true that LS heads bolt on to a SBF? just do that, throw on a custom runner manifold or carb intake and tell everyone it's a hybrid!
or, howabout a GM 3.6 V6 w/ a monster turbo hanging off the front. stock w/o turbo is over 300hp. set it way back, good weight distribution.
just somethjing different; on this site anyways, it seems everyones got a 1st gen camaro w/ an LS.

They look to be the same bolt pattern..It's funny how GM used some of Ford tech. DOH!

Head water ports are different...with I'm sure other issues.

The exhaust port spacing is the same between the Ford and LS so I could try and use the turbo manifolds that I have with an adapter. (I think someone already mentioned that?)

I need to find someone with a spare LS engine laying around to do a test fit.....

I got it...Bones Fab!
He's got a old one sittng in his shop...I'm calling you tomorrow Jim! :fingersx:

[RSX302]

How about a 440 wegde mopar.:fingersx:

Well..I think the car has had enough morfing for its life..LOL

At least the Ford 9" Rear end was accepted over the years. That's staying! :)

[RSX302]

isn't it true that LS heads bolt on to a SBF? just do that, throw on a custom runner manifold or carb intake and tell everyone it's a hybrid!
or, howabout a GM 3.6 V6 w/ a monster turbo hanging off the front. stock w/o turbo is over 300hp. set it way back, good weight distribution.
just somethjing different; on this site anyways, it seems everyones got a 1st gen camaro w/ an LS.

Ya know those turbo V6's are stout! To bad I'm not a fan of how they sound...

Gotta have that all American V8 rumble :cheers:

[Payton King]

on the 18 degree motor?

[RSX302]

on the 18 degree motor?

Got it...Thx

[93Polo]

What's the difference with the stock LS6 block sleeves vs any of the others?

I'm finding that all the stock LS blocks are capable of holding high hp, but at the cost of sleeve expansion and blowby.

I'm also catching the hint with the stock heads. I'm thinking AFR,Allpro...etc will be necessary.

Since the Ford is 10 bolt, I'm use to the sealing issue..My 302 uses 1/2" studs, Cometic MLS gasket and Permatex spray head sealer. No issues what so ever at 750-800hp. All surfaces are better than 15ra. I found this was key to the seal.

Thx for the info!

http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls6/page3.htm for the LS1 vs LS6 block.

The LS6 has the best ventilation of the 5.7 blocks. I wouldn't be concerned with any weakness due to the change in sleeve design for the ventilation. The 97/98 blocks have thinner walls but many have put forged pistons in and run nitrous.

I have heard the rumors that LS heads could be put on a Ford block never a read of a finished motor. Many have used 302/351W headers by cutting off the flanges and welding on LS flanges, the RX7 LS swap guys really explored that mod.

The LS7 blocks from what I've read are most likely to have the bores distort but isn't Stielow running a LS7 block in his latest build using a LS9 top end with blower?

I agree on the aftermarket heads and would go with an AFR or TFS.

IMO LS6 or LS2 block, forged rods/pistons on a stock crank with a some heads that you get a solid deal on and you'll turn big #s on a relative budget. Is the cool factor of a LS7 block build worth small tq gain and extra risk of head gaskets, $$, etc.? IMO no.

Gokou has a nice LS2 TT build going:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302484

If you have the budget and are not concerned with the weight a LSX block with 6 bolts heads would likely be the most reliable.

A hot ticket on LS1tech now seems to be turbo Mustangs using a 5.3 as the compression is low and motors can be cheap and easily.

[RSX302]

http://www.idavette.net/hib/ls6/page3.htm for the LS1 vs LS6 block.

The LS6 has the best ventilation of the 5.7 blocks. I wouldn't be concerned with any weakness due to the change in sleeve design for the ventilation. The 97/98 blocks have thinner walls but many have put forged pistons in and run nitrous.

I have heard the rumors that LS heads could be put on a Ford block never a read of a finished motor. Many have used 302/351W headers by cutting off the flanges and welding on LS flanges, the RX7 LS swap guys really explored that mod.

The LS7 blocks from what I've read are most likely to have the bores distort but isn't Stielow running a LS7 block in his latest build using a LS9 top end with blower?

I agree on the aftermarket heads and would go with an AFR or TFS.

IMO LS6 or LS2 block, forged rods/pistons on a stock crank with a some heads that you get a solid deal on and you'll turn big #s on a relative budget. Is the cool factor of a LS7 block build worth small tq gain and extra risk of head gaskets, $$, etc.? IMO no.

Gokou has a nice LS2 TT build going:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302484

If you have the budget and are not concerned with the weight a LSX block with 6 bolts heads would likely be the most reliable.

A hot ticket on LS1tech now seems to be turbo Mustangs using a 5.3 as the compression is low and motors can be cheap and easily.

Good info...Thx

I called up Texas Speed...

They are telling me that with 10psig boost at 700-800hp, the sleeves will not be a problem.

The engine:
TSP347 LS1/LS6 Longblock = $7100
Wiseco -11cc pistons
Eagle Rods w/ARP
Stock Crank (3.622)
6.0L Heads (72cc)

Looking good to meet my $10K engine target.:cheers:

[RSX302]

They look to be the same bolt pattern..It's funny how GM used some of Ford tech. DOH!

Head water ports are different...with I'm sure other issues.

The exhaust port spacing is the same between the Ford and LS so I could try and use the turbo manifolds that I have with an adapter. (I think someone already mentioned that?)

I need to find someone with a spare LS engine laying around to do a test fit.....

I got it...Bones Fab!
He's got a old one sittng in his shop...I'm calling you tomorrow Jim! :fingersx:

Got the LS1 longblock from Bones Fab for a quick mock-up. Unfortunately the Ford turbo manifolds didn't fit between the rails.

I like Gokou's twin set-up. I was wondering if anybody had used the stock cast iron manifolds. Looked to work good.

[RSX302]

I would like to thank everyone that has participated in this thread. It has given me the direction that should suit the Camaro well as well as lift about 100lbs off the nose.:cool:

Thx again!

[Memphis]

Got the LS1 longblock from Bones Fab for a quick mock-up. Unfortunately the Ford turbo manifolds didn't fit between the rails.

I like Gokou's twin set-up. I was wondering if anybody had used the stock cast iron manifolds. Looked to work good.

A lot of people take truck manifolds and flip them around. I know of a drag radial car that has been 7.4s on a truck manifold setup and over 200mph.

[ArtosDracon]

Flipped truck manifolds are good, as would LS7 manifolds if you were willing to cut the flange and flip them 180 on the same side.

[RSX302]

Flipped truck manifolds are good, as would LS7 manifolds if you were willing to cut the flange and flip them 180 on the same side.

I was looking at the LS7 manifolds/headers. Once I get the new "LS6" and installed :fingersx:, I will try different turbo locations to see what I like.

The nice thing I like about my Garrett GTBB35's is how small they are. Would be too cool to get four of them for a quad system. Not that I need 1600hp.:screwy: That would be LSX block territory. Now were getting heavy again...ok back to reality.

The GTBB35's turbos are only 7" x 7" and good to 400hp ea. Quick spool..full boost by 2500rpm.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[JerseyNova]

Love the car man, nice color.

Texas Speed would deffinitely be your best bet for any direction you go. Here is a link to a article I read it has some good information for where you are going. Mostly N/A stuff but still good none the less.
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0905_ls3_based_418ci_engine_build_part2/index.html

Keep us posted!

****ty Paint edit but what ever Mirrors reminded me of t-rex arms they look so weird on the car lol.

[RSX302]

Love the car man, nice color.

Texas Speed would deffinitely be your best bet for any direction you go. Here is a link to a article I read it has some good information for where you are going. Mostly N/A stuff but still good none the less.
http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/hppp_0905_ls3_based_418ci_engine_build_part2/index.html

Keep us posted!

****ty Paint edit but what ever Mirrors reminded me of t-rex arms they look so weird on the car lol.

So you don't like my t-rex arm mirror...LOL

The only complaint I have with the C5 mirrors is my butt hits them when I'm cleaning the car...:moon: Otherwise I think they look and work awesome!

I'm still at a loss between what block to go with my turbos.

LS or LQ?
and who can tell me how GM rates there blocks? Max hp / 2 = ? LOL
LS2/6 = 450hp
L92/LS3 = 525hp
LQ9 = 500hp

Appears that the L92/LS3 would be the choice in terms of max Hp rating, but we all know that all these engines handle 1000+hp.

I would have thought the LQ9 would be rated higher?

With the Cast Iron Ford R302, Turbo Manifolds & Intercooler, my car weighed in at 3600lbs without me. When I turned a 1:38 at Willow Springs big track with two 240+lbs guy's (4100lbs), I was blowing by most everybody that was out there which turned some heads. Vettes, BMW M5's, AC Cobras, Lotus'..etc..The guys that I was having a hard time keeping up with was the Porsche' --New Turbo Porsche--1:35's.

So I wonder how much 100lbs off the nose is worth in terms of lap times? (Just kick out the 250lbs Passengers..LOL)

[Vegas69]

Not as much as you'll be lead to believe around here. I dropped over 100lbs off my nose and I can't say it's a huge deal.

[93Polo]

I would not be concerned with what GM rated the blocks at, so many have blown past those #s on all 3 blocks. There is a guy over on performancetrucks that claims he put down over 600rwhp on a turbo 4.8. The pic I linked into Gokou's topic was a local truck manifold twin turbo 5.7 ls1 or ls6 block running a stock crank that eventually went up to 900rwhp.

On the heads, when I was researching a maggie build in place of the heads and cam I did on my C5, the 72cc chamber truck heads had a larger diameter chamber than a 5.7 (3.9") block bore making the chamber a mushroom.

I also like Vengeance Racing localy for LS motorand mods. Last I heard, they have Pro-line do the assembly which builds Tim Lynch's and other racers Outlaw 10.5" tire turbo motors. Ron Mowen is the guy to talk to at Vengeance. They do ship anywhere.

[ArtosDracon]

In Road racing or longer tracks it won't make as big a difference in lap times, you're likely more limited by other factors, it will make it a bit easier to turn the same lap times though. On an autocross, it does make a bigger difference because of how rapidly the weight has to shift.

[RSX302]

Not as much as you'll be lead to believe around here. I dropped over 100lbs off my nose and I can't say it's a huge deal.


In Road racing or longer tracks it won't make as big a difference in lap times, you're likely more limited by other factors, it will make it a bit easier to turn the same lap times though. On an autocross, it does make a bigger difference because of how rapidly the weight has to shift.


I think you're right...that's kinda how I'm seeing it too...

We all know in any competitive racing, weight and power is everything. (not to mention driver skill and car set-up) I'm not going to loose sleep over a half a second or less on the track. I'm looking more toward reliability and longevity at 800hp.

Since I built my car to be a full street with occasional fun at the track, I know it will be a good showing, but never finish top in events with cars having nothing more then carbon fiber and aluminum engines. (Big, small or autocross tracks) This is where weight classes come into play. Kinda hard to put a 2500lb AC Cobra against a 3200lb Camaro let alone a 3600lb Camaro. . The more competitive the car gets the less street it becomes. Everybody has a different level that they are willing to tolerate.
Me; I like cruising from a local event when its 100deg outside with my power windows up the A/C on cranking my 1000watt 14 speaker sound system. Not with my hand crank windows down sweating in the seats hearing the hot wind hit my ear..:cheers: to each his own I guess..

[RSX302]

I would not be concerned with what GM rated the blocks at, so many have blown past those #s on all 3 blocks. There is a guy over on performancetrucks that claims he put down over 600rwhp on a turbo 4.8. The pic I linked into Gokou's topic was a local truck manifold twin turbo 5.7 ls1 or ls6 block running a stock crank that eventually went up to 900rwhp.

On the heads, when I was researching a maggie build in place of the heads and cam I did on my C5, the 72cc chamber truck heads had a larger diameter chamber than a 5.7 (3.9") block bore making the chamber a mushroom.

I also like Vengeance Racing localy for LS motorand mods. Last I heard, they have Pro-line do the assembly which builds Tim Lynch's and other racers Outlaw 10.5" tire turbo motors. Ron Mowen is the guy to talk to at Vengeance. They do ship anywhere.

I'm not all that concerned that the block can't handle over GM's ratings, just wondered how they come up with it. There must be some reason why the LS3 block is rated higher then the LS1/2 & 6? I can only assume they go by the weekest link (block, sleeves, mains etc..) and rate it with some kind of engineering mathmatics?:dunno:

From what I've heard and read, it looks like the LS6 & LS3 is the counterpart fix to the LS1 & LS2 with bay to bay breathing etc. The LS1/2 & 6 all kept the same rating of 450hp where as the LS3 jumps to 525hp? I'm sure GM didn't pull that out of their :moon:

[RSX302]

Ok...here we go with project RSX transplant. I will try and keep updated pics of the changeover. Should have the LQ9 shortblock from Texas Speed in a couple of weeks.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/vbpgimage.php?do=full&p=8838

[ArtosDracon]

Good choice on the LQ9 IMHO, should fit well with your car. Especially with a couple turbos :)

[csx4766]

COOL, Whats going to happen to the Ford Long Block?

[RSX302]

COOL, Whats going to happen to the Ford Long Block?

I haven't been very aggressive with selling, but I was thinking of crating and saving for another project. Too nice of a motor..If someone wants to buy for the right price....I'm open...

[RSX302]

Good choice on the LQ9 IMHO, should fit well with your car. Especially with a couple turbos :)

Thx..I thought so too..I overlooked the 70lb weight difference from the LS2/3/6 aluminum blocks for a nice strong base for the 800hp twins. Bonus was the block is only $700 bucks...:cheers:

[formula98]

Any Updates on your Swap? I read through your original build years back, can't wait to see your changes.....

[RSX302]

Any Updates on your Swap? I read through your original build years back, can't wait to see your changes.....

This is where I'm at until the funds increase:

Texas Speed 370cu LQ9 shortblock

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF0005-1.jpg

Installed front distributor conversion and Aviaid dry Sump pan
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF0006-1.jpg
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF0010-1.jpg

G-Force T56 input shaft replaced and McLeod bellhousing installed for LS.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF0004-1.jpg

Went with a steel McLeod flywheel this time over the aluminum...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF00022-1.jpg

McLeod RST Twin Disc installed
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF00042-1.jpg

Mocking up motor mounts...The motor moved forward 2" from the Ford location. 1" beacause of the bellhousing depth and 1" for the whole thing for additional firewall clearance. Notice I was still able to pick-up the rear crossbar I added. I'm keeping the weight in the same place the Ford was..worked out that the centerline of the motor mount was directly over the crossbar..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF0013-1.jpg

Front clip painted and hopefully motor in for good...Borrowed buddies heads during mock-up.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF00011-1.jpg

Suspension back on..
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2011/01/DSCF00041-1.jpg

[Payton King]

Looks real nice. glad to see you are making progress!

[twosaturns]

sweet! w/ the front dizzy I bet most people will figure it IS a fomoco in there!

[RSX302]

Looks real nice. glad to see you are making progress!

Thx, Slow progress..but it's progress none the less...

[RSX302]

sweet! w/ the front dizzy I bet most people will figure it IS a fomoco in there!

I could have done what CarlC said, change the valve covers on the Ford I had in it and told everyone it was a chevy LS302 with the side strips..lol..would have made it a hellova lot cheaper..