bumpsteer problem

[onechev]

toe in on bump and rebound i lower the tie rod end and made it better and i dont want to run a heim joint and space it down and cant change the steering arm. took some caster out made it better,.023 to go how do you shorten the inner tie rod ? i am at 0 toe

[Rhino]

If I recall correctly, when you're toe in on both bump and rebound your tie rod is actually too short, not too long.

Can you give us more details as to what you're doing? Steering box or Rack? What chassis is this going in? What suspension mods have been made?

[JRouche]

Yup, too short of an rod if you are "toeing in" on compression and rebound. You are at the peak of the circle that the steering link describes. At ride height it will be at the setting you need. And with a short rod it will pull the steering arm in with either compression or rebound. Big bump steer.

You are at the limits of the rods. Use a longer steering rod or tie rod and unfortunately you might have to use some spacers (to lower the joint at the steering arm) to get it so you dont have any toe change for compression.

I use Baer tracker tie rod ends. And after getting the correct rod length it was just a matter of lowering the tie rod end at the steering arm with spacers to get a minimal toe change.

But even if you dont want to go with a baer tracker type setup, you will need to increase the length of yer rods. They sound too short. You are pulling the steering in for any suspension travel. JR

[Bryce]

wait, its too short on a front steer car. Its the opposite on a rear steer car. I think????

What kind of car are we talking about?

[Rhino]

You're absolutely right. Nice call.
It looks like we need more info.

[GRNOVA]

I am in the middle of this same problem with my 65' MII R&P. Just ordered Baer Trackers I will keep u updated.

[onechev]

forgot to mention that its a front steer rack

[Rhino]

Then it does hold true that your tie rod is currently too short.

Toe-out on both bump/rebound - tie rods too long, height correct
Toe-in on both bump/rebound - tie rods too short, height correct
Toe-out on bump, Toe-in on rebound - outer tie rod too low, length correct
Toe-in on bump, Toe-out on rebound - outer tie rod too high, length correct

Can you give us a little more to go off of? Was the car originally rack based? What chassis is it in?

[JRouche]

Hahaha.. I just assumed once again, my bad. I have a front steer MII type suspension and was thinking about my problems. JR

[JRouche]

I am in the middle of this same problem with my 65' MII R&P. Just ordered Baer Trackers I will keep u updated.

Run ALL the spacers. I think you have a similar setup as mine and after running it through all the variables the full stack was the best for me. Oh, by the way, it took me three months to get the baer tracker tie rods. I was lucky to catch them when they were moving. Geeze, my luck. JR

[GRNOVA]

it took me three months to get the baer tracker tie rods. JR

3 months!
I hope there here today, ordered Monday

[onechev]

its a mustang ii front end and in a first gen Nova with a power rack.
when i set the caster at 5 degrees it raised steering arm up to high and it got wacky. .023 is nominal . i can take some caster out but this is what i like to run on power steering cars.

[JRouche]

its a mustang ii front end and in a first gen Nova with a power rack.
when i set the caster at 5 degrees it raised steering arm up to high and it got wacky. .023 is nominal . i can take some caster out but this is what i like to run on power steering cars.


Well, you dont want to use a lowered tie rod with with heim joints and spacers. But you kicked the steering arm way up in the air with 5* of caster.

Im not sure what you are looking for. Even with a REALLY long pin and spacers for a tie rod end you will still have some serious bump steer with the MII spindles. They werent even designed to have so much caster.

And I get where you are coming from. I tried to work in 5* of caster. It just wasnt gonna happen. If you want the BS to be somewhat limited then 3* of caster and some serious shims (a full stack with the baer trackers) is what its gonna take.

Its not an issue with tie rod length now that I see what you are trying to do. Its an angular issue. You just cant use 5* of caster with the MII spindles. The steering arm is just too high. And at a funky angle to boot. JR

[GRNOVA]

JR can you snap some pics of the trackers and sway bar installed? I am running into some small problems... that could potentially become big problems. Oh, and the trackers are 2 weeks out, thanks for the heads up.

[JRouche]

JR can you snap some pics of the trackers and sway bar installed? I am running into some small problems... that could potentially become big problems. Oh, and the trackers are 2 weeks out, thanks for the heads up.

Yep, will do. Gimme a day or two. Im gonna do a full front end write-up like I did for the rear. Gotta get ALL the pics sorted out. JR

[JRouche]

JR can you snap some pics of the trackers and sway bar installed? I am running into some small problems... that could potentially become big problems. Oh, and the trackers are 2 weeks out, thanks for the heads up.

Oh, I should have addressed your issue first, my pics prolly wont help. Ummm, are you thinking the sway bar might contact the baer tracker sleeve? That thing is kinda large, too large if you ask me. But its aluminum so Im not sure what they were thinking, maybe cause its aluminum it needs to be so large. But when you get it you will see. Its pretty fat.

When I received them and finally got to see how big they were I was like oh no, this dude isnt gonna fit in my already busy, tight front. My sway bar arms were already placed very close to the frame rails and the tire/wheel at full turn. No way I could get any room there. My initial concern was that the fat sleeve would hit the sway bar arm during travel. So I already had it in my mind I would turn some new sleeves from steel if that was the problem.

But I got lucky. The sleeve clears the sway bar arm with any travel that may be seen. Full bump, rebound with lock to lock steering. Works for me.

Now the reason I say my pics might not help (and I was up stairs sorting them out today, 300 pics I have to narrow down) is because I have a straight splined torsion bar type sway bar. And I bent my own arms to make it all fit. My front end is so busy with all the tight fitting links its a wonder nothing touches. But it ALL clears.

But anyway, Im working on getting some pics up. JR

[GRNOVA]

Great JR, Yes I am concerned about the trackers hitting everything up front. I guess I will find out when they come in!

[JRouche]

Great JR, Yes I am concerned about the trackers hitting everything up front. I guess I will find out when they come in!

Hey Tim. I posted some pics here. https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70049

If you need some more info lemme know. JR