Minor rant - tow ratings for cars in the US

[Nomad_K]

Although I am still looking around for the right low-profile modern pro-touring car, I am also looking for something to do a bit of towing (pair of jet skis plus gear). I was hoping to combine the two, but this looks like a no-no in the States.

In Europe, Australia, and quite a few other places, you can tow 2000 - 4000 lbs with a car, no problem. However, legally, in the US, many cars that are rated to tow 2000 - 4000 lbs overseas are rated at 1000 lbs or even not rated for towing here :machine: . The reason - so far as I could tell from some research and a chat to a dealer - liability.

On the bright side I found a few late model Subaru, Saab, and Volvo cars rated to tow around 3,000 pounds. First off, kudos to these manufacturers for taking the time to test and certify their cars, and for bringing a little common sense to the automotive landscape here.

Second - does anyone know of any decent domestic cars that are rated to tow 3000 lbs? Recent yet out of production models are okay. To date, I think that the Dodge Magnum (V6 and RT models) can tow 3000 lbs. If there is another sleeper car with decent towing capacity, give me a shout!

Oh, and yes, I have been looking at late 1960's and mid-1980's El Caminos...

[MonzaRacer]

The issue is having a car with enough rear capacity, heck an Elcamino with a set of air springs from Ridetech could handle that easy, add in an equalizer hitch and your set.
Big trick is looking at hitch companies and what can be attached to the cars. I also know you can tow with Crown Vics/Grand Marquis especially if you upgrade to Air Ride F9100 springs (moding to fit of course) you would have 4000lbs of spring capacity and all you would need is a class 3 receiver with equalizer hitch.
Same thing on an Elcamino or any of many cars with a full frame.
On cars with unit body construction your limited on tongue weight. But 2 jet skis should be do able on just about anything as most of the Class 1, 2 hitches are in the 300 to 750 tongue weight.
Car classifications are on the driveline basically not what the chassis can handle.
Heck www.indianapontiacs.com has a full size Pontiac wagon that would make a great hauler and Pontiacs are cool too. I have a 69 Ventura that I am thinking of messing around with again,,, or sell. Depends on cash flow.

[ace_xp2]

Does anyone even know where you can get tow ratings for classic cars? I know cars used to tow stuff all the time,often with factory optioned hitches. But I can't find tow ratings for anything that isn't a truck. If a car gets passed a certain year, does it not have an official tow rating?

[Taylor1969]

Get a trailblazer ss

[Boatmark]

I like the idea of the 80's era El Camino. Back when they were new cars I had many customers (boat business) who towed 4-5000 pounds with them regularly. Class iv hitch, good shocks, air bags in the rear springs and you are good to go.

Also many companies have suspension kits to tighten them up, and with the the air out of the bags it handles and rides like a car.

I personally always liked the way they looked, and the prices are reasonable. Unfortunately I need more seats in my tow vehicle, so the Avalanche will be with me forever!

[Scott Parkhurst]

The mid-90s Caprice wagons with the LT1 engines are awesome haulers...

[Nomad_K]

Hey guys,

Thank you for all of the replies. In addition to the El Camino, I have found a few early 1990's alternatives that could fit the bill.

A Trailblazer SS would be amazing - if they didn't use quite as much gas (if I find one at a low enough price I might quite my *****ing about the gas though).

MonzaRacer, thank you for the thoughts and advice. I was actually talking to a friend about an older car with four wheel discs, airbags, and the ability to tow off into the sunset. In addition to having spent time abroad though, we are both a little weary of the legal garbage that could come up if you had an accident and had a larger than 'legal' load, regardless of who is at fault.

Although there are few new cars that can make the grade, there are plenty of older, and potentially exciting options. A search through the world of new cars might induce a rant, but a browse though older pro-touring tow options gives me a little hope.

[The Stickman]

I am pretty sure I could tow with this if I wanted to. I have one other just like this with the heavy duty hitch.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2009/04/100_3289-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Boatmark]

When I was a kid, the marina I worked in had one of those Olds wagons (with a diesel no less!) as a shop car. We did some brutal things to that car. Whenever all the trucks were busy (like boat show set up) the wagon filled the gap. We used to keep a spare set of air shocks in stock at all times . . . .

We later traded it on another truck, and I used to see it all over town with a woman and her kids in it. If she only knew what her nice used wagon had been through in an earlier life!

Lets just say, it will tow 4k just fine. (and 6, and uh sometimes 8 . . )

[Nomad_K]

When I was a kid, the marina I worked in had one of those Olds wagons (with a diesel no less!) as a shop car. We did some brutal things to that car. Whenever all the trucks were busy (like boat show set up) the wagon filled the gap. We used to keep a spare set of air shocks in stock at all times . . . .

We later traded it on another truck, and I used to see it all over town with a woman and her kids in it. If she only knew what her nice used wagon had been through in an earlier life!

Lets just say, it will tow 4k just fine. (and 6, and uh sometimes 8 . . )

I saw one of these Olds wagons towing a big lifted Suburban after an off road adventure (water crossing) gone awry.

As for the Fleetwood - I found the following description of the tow package.

"The 7,000 lb (3,200 kg) trailer towing package returned to the Gen 5 Fleetwood in 1993, something not seen in a production sedan since the 1971-1976 Gen 3 Fleetwood[citation needed]. The RPO V4P package included heavy duty cooling (RPO V08, which consisted of a 7 blade mechanical fan and an extra capacity radiator), RPO FE2 Suspension System Ride Handling, HD 4L60 transmission, RPO KC4 Cooling System Engine Oil, RPO KD1 Cooling System Transmission Oil, RPO KG9 140 amp alternator, and RPO GT4 3.73 gears with an 8.5" ring gear. In 1994-1996, the V4P package was revised with RPO GU6 3.42 gears with the new more powerful RPO LT1 260 hp V8, and HD 4L60E transmission with unique accumulators to shift smoother with the shorter rear axle gearing."

Props to the man at GM who pushed this through accounting.

[Turbo Rob]

I have a Nissan Maxima that I have towed up to about 1700 pounds with. It is only "rated" at 1000 per the owners manual, but it handled the 1700 pounds (on several occasions) very well. I have pulled a trailer with the Maxima on a long trip from New Mexico, to South Carolina, to Ohio and then on to Texas no problems at all.

I have spent quite a bit of time living in Europe, and routinely saw 5 series BMWs and E-Class Mercedes towing a trailer with a car on it.

I also have a 2007 Subaru Outback (turbo) which is rated at 2700 towing capacity. I believe the non-turbo ones are rated at 3000 pound capacity.

If all you are towing around is two jet skis, just about anything will do that. For many years I pulled two jet skis/gear/extra fuel around behind my 1988 Chevy Beretta with 130 horsepower. But then again, that was when jets skis were smaller, and more maneuverable, submarine-able, and a lot more fun than these new overweight, oversized, floating sofa style jet skis are.

As far as domestic cars, anything you can get a hitch on will be more than enough for the skis. But you can always get you a 3/4 ton dually if you are worried about tow ratings....

Rob

[Nomad_K]

I have spent quite a bit of time living in Europe, and routinely saw 5 series BMWs and E-Class Mercedes towing a trailer with a car on it.

I also have a 2007 Subaru Outback (turbo) which is rated at 2700 towing capacity. I believe the non-turbo ones are rated at 3000 pound capacity.

If all you are towing around is two jet skis, just about anything will do that. For many years I pulled two jet skis/gear/extra fuel around behind my 1988 Chevy Beretta with 130 horsepower. But then again, that was when jets skis were smaller, and more maneuverable, submarine-able, and a lot more fun than these new overweight, oversized, floating sofa style jet skis are.

As far as domestic cars, anything you can get a hitch on will be more than enough for the skis. But you can always get you a 3/4 ton dually if you are worried about tow ratings....

Rob

I am trying to avoid the dually for jet skis :pat: . I wanted to do a little offshore & endurance racing though, and those skis weight 800 - 1000 pounds each, plus trailer, gas, gear etc.

Long story short I am going to be in a 'technical advisory role' for awhile, and while it isn't specific to automotive or transport issues, I have to 'mind my p's and q's' so to speak when it comes to gov't rules and regs in my daily & weekend life. No diesel expedition truck with a DPF delete to give a balance of emissions and reduced consumption, no towing a sensible weight behind a vehicle rated to tow twice that amount in other markets, etc.

On a completely different note, I am glad I posted this question here. I did a quick run through forums specific to other cars I was looking at, and read comment after comment from people saying that it looks dumb, stupid, etc etc etc :bsjerk: to tow behind anything other than a truck or oversized SUV with a 10,000 pound tow rating. Case in point, the Pontiac G8 GT can tow a boatload in Australia, yet a few 'enthusiasts' I spoke to in person suggested that an apocalypse would occur if I put a pair of racing skis behind the G8. The car has a stout engine, solid transmission, and nice 4 wheel discs... oh well.

[79T/Aman]

and here is what happens in Europe following European guide lines http://www.clipmoon.com/videos/11765ce/uphill-struggle-fail.html

[406 Q-ship]

On a completely different note, I am glad I posted this question here. I did a quick run through forums specific to other cars I was looking at, and read comment after comment from people saying that it looks dumb, stupid, etc etc etc :bsjerk: to tow behind anything other than a truck or oversized SUV with a 10,000 pound tow rating. Case in point, the Pontiac G8 GT can tow a boatload in Australia, yet a few 'enthusiasts' I spoke to in person suggested that an apocalypse would occur if I put a pair of racing skis behind the G8. The car has a stout engine, solid transmission, and nice 4 wheel discs... oh well.

That is an American attitude of bigger is better, always pick the cam off the bottom of the page in the catalog. I remember in the 1970's when you would routinely see a Olds 98, Full size Ford, Caddy Fleetwood, Chevy Full Size, Buick LeSabre, or a Pontiac Bonny pulling a Airstream/Boat down the highway with the tongue weight so screwed up that the front tires were barely touching the ground.

Why else did every Mom in American need a 4x4 2500 HD Suburban with a Big Block in it to get one kid to soccer practice.

[Turbo Rob]

That is an American attitude of bigger is better, always pick the cam off the bottom of the page in the catalog. I remember in the 1970's when you would routinely see a Olds 98, Full size Ford, Caddy Fleetwood, Chevy Full Size, Buick LeSabre, or a Pontiac Bonny pulling a Airstream/Boat down the highway with the tongue weight so screwed up that the front tires were barely touching the ground.

Why else did every Mom in American need a 4x4 2500 HD Suburban with a Big Block in it to get one kid to soccer practice.


Well stated.

[Turbo Rob]

I am trying to avoid the dually for jet skis :pat: . I wanted to do a little offshore & endurance racing though, and those skis weight 800 - 1000 pounds each, plus trailer, gas, gear etc.


I've done quite a bit of open ocean/off shore jet skiing - on a Polaris SL 650 back in the mid-90's off the Azores islands out in the Atlantic.

Get ready to be beat up pretty darn good...

Rob

[Nomad_K]

I've done quite a bit of open ocean/off shore jet skiing - on a Polaris SL 650 back in the mid-90's off the Azores islands out in the Atlantic.

Get ready to be beat up pretty darn good...

Rob

Off shore in the 1990's = pioneering spirit :).

As for the beating - well, Havasu is on the other side of the country. Besides, I'm getting too old for Muay Thai.