Air Ride Suspension for a Chevelle

[AZSaleen04]

I'm considering going with an air-ride suspension and was wondering what companies others have dealth with and pro's and con's.

This is for a 70 Chevelle.

Thanks

[mpozzi]

In 2008, I had the opportunity to flog the snot out of the RideTech's Chevelle and found it willing to take everything I could throw at it. Given what I've experienced first hand, it's a great system and you won't be disappointed.

That said, there's a ton of aftermarket cool handling bits and systems out there for the A-bodies. It depends on what you're trying to achieve and what you want the end result to be.

If there's a Good Guys show that has an autocross, stop by and see if people will let you ride shotgun during their runs. Most drivers have no problem with this request and you'll be able to see for yourself what you like and dislike, plus talk to the respective suspension companies first hand. Most have vendor booths and representatives that can discuss any questions you may have.

Mary Pozzi

[AZSaleen04]

Thanks for our response. I'm redoing my Chvelle and I need to do the entire suspension over. I do have a lot of other projects to complete on the car including wheels. My main purpose for the air ride is the lowered look with the wheels tucked in.

The Ride Tech does look like a good option but the entry level kit is about $2K. Just wanted to see what other options are there that might be a better investment.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We will only sell one Air Suspension, Ride Tech. No one else proves thier stuff like Ride Tech does.

[JRouche]

Thanks for our response. I'm redoing my Chvelle and I need to do the entire suspension over. I do have a lot of other projects to complete on the car including wheels. My main purpose for the air ride is the lowered look with the wheels tucked in.

The Ride Tech does look like a good option but the entry level kit is about $2K. Just wanted to see what other options are there that might be a better investment.

Kinda sounds like my ordeal. I was looking for a better coilover setup on the rear. The front coil springs were fine by me. But the rear needed some work. And I was re-doing the entire back half. Coilover springs still seem like the way to go IMO.

The air rides setup is nice. But its not all that.

Positive points....

Its an easy swap. Mine was all custom, but it was still pretty simple. The rear bags (shockwaves) are plenty strong for the rear. I have yet to check out the valving of the shocks for driving conditions.

The front was a dream. Again mostly custom but still within the recommended parameters for ART.

They have some of the best customer support I have seen and used. Thumbs up guys!! Keep it up.

If yer into playing with several alignments on the front end it doesnt get any easier than an air spring. Wanna check yer bump steer. No need to remove the spring, just deflate it. Need to adjust yer adjustable control arms. Release the spring pressure, adjust and set it back on the springs. Its really nice to be able to remove the springs with a tap of a button. Never had it so easy.

Now the down side...


With air springs its never a set value. It all depends on the pressure that the sensors see. Thats how the system works, with the ART system. There is a pressure sensor for each wheel (air spring) and it trys to get the bag filled with the pressure you tap in.

Unfortunately you cant type in a number and have it pressurize the bag with that number. Its a hunting game. It has you tap the up or down button and try to get to yer number. Say you want 60psi in the two front springs. More than likely you will over shoot the number by quite a bit. Then you have to release the pressure with a tap and it will go down by who knows, 10 or 20 psi. Then try to get lucky and tap the up button and hope it comes close to 60psi. Flaw.

There should be a better program in the control to give a more detailed pulse with the setting. And yes, I have it set for the most detailed control. It comes set that way from the manufacture. For obvious reasons.

So, I ended up making some control valves for the supply and exhaust. To limit the flow of air on both lowering and rising. It gives a better control for the filling or dumping of air from the air springs.

What I would do if I worked for ART? Not change the air valves, they are great. They seal and are fast, good valves. Change out the pressure sensor? Nope, they are some nice sensors. Although. I did see some hunting. But Im pretty sure that was the control unit.

I would limit the air flow so the sensors could keep up. The controller only sees the bag pressure. It takes time for the bag to normalize. But the controller stops when it sees a certain pressure. It doesnt look back. It stops looking when it sees the number it is looking for.

Thats another thing. Presets. They are set too wide. If for example you measure out the ride height to a certain number with say 60psi of air pressure. You are like yeah, got it set. You set the number two button on the controller to be yer ride height. If you deflate the springs then hit the #2 button you are lucky if it comes within 5psi to 60psi. All within a minute, no major air temp changes.

So you think, what the hell dude, whats 5psi. Well it is 1/2" of ride height. And Im not kidding. 5psi , when the springs are at there optimum, just at ride height 5 pounds changes it a whole lot more then when say its just raising the car off no pressure. At ride height 5psi is a good 1/2" change.

Im at a good ride height at 58psi. At a decent 78* temp. But the problem is stabbing the up or down arrow, if I dont hit somewhere around 58psi. And one quick stab of the button can raise it to 70 plus psi. Then its a stab down. Then a stab up. Back and forth.

Im not sure but I think they could increase the checking of the pressure with more steps for the presets. When you have a preset in and hit it the steps are still pretty large. I think its because the air valve can only open and close at a certain rate. I get that. Means the air flow is too much. They prolly have some guys saying the fill rate is too slow too. LOL Cant please everyone, or can you. Depends on how committed you are.


Do I like the system? Hell yes, so far, and I havent even driven on it yet. JR

[elitecustombody]

JR, look into flow control valves,they will help you get your ride height dialed in

http://www.coolcars.org/air/vehicles/imports/flowcontrolvalves.htm

I can't wait to install my RideTech suspension on the Firebird,just can't find the time to do it,plus still gathering more info on 4-link rear

BTW, which controller are you using?

Sefan

[darren@ridetech]

JRouche...
I am assuming you have the RidePro E2 control system. One thing that we changed w/ the new RidePro E3 system is the ability to "tap" the buttons and make smaller changes in pressure. With the E2, no matter how quick you tapped the button, it would still open the valve for a certain amount of time.

That being said... you are also correct, using psi to level a car in some cases (depending on suspension design and which air springs are used) is not always the best method. Height sensors may be required. On our dually for example, we use a very large air spring on the back to be able to have enough load capacity to haul our 45 enclosed trailer. But unloaded it only requires about 35psi to lift it to ride height. In "most" cases the pressure based systems will hit the target pressure within 2-3 psi. Being off 3 psi can change your spring rate almost 10%. Most passenger cars require 75-90 psi to achieve ride height, 3 psi is only 3-4%.

With your E2, you can change the speed setting to enable it to hit your presets a little closer. Usually around 3 works best.

[JRouche]

Thanks Darren, like I have said, you guys have top notch tech support, always there to answer questions.

Yup, I have the E2.

I did make a temporary fix. Kinda a gain loss type fix. What I did is put a plug on the exhaust that has a .052" hole drilled through it. I tried a larger hole, thinking it was too small. Way too large. It was a .125" hole. I can tap the down button now and get some pretty detail settings. Within a couple of pounds release VS a 5 or 7 pound jump. Im happy there.

And I put a ball valve on the supply from the tank. So when I need to get it fine tuned for ride height while aligning the front end I can tap in a pound or two no prob. I can actually hold the up button and watch it rise a 1/8" or so per second, more detailed if I want by closing the ball valve more. I like that, to be able to hold the button and measure the rise.

I love the temp fix. But.... As you can prolly see it wont work well for regular usage. Presets.

With such a small flow of air when I hit a preset it will cycle the valves ALOT! Which wouldnt be bad. Im not looking for speed. But I also dont want to burn out the valves either.

For example. If Im all the way down, at preset #1 and at 20lbs and hit the #3 preset for all the way up (98lbs and 4-1/2" higher) it will cycle the valves at lease 60 times. Im thinking that will kill the valves in no time. Unless you tell me different.

And I really like the exhaust orifice size I made. It doesnt cause a problem. Going from say perset #2 to #1 its just a straight release, no cycling of the valves. Nice slow falling of the car. It used to drop like a rock, (no, I dont have stepped drops programed in). This is a much better deflate.

And after Im done setting up the front end alignment Ill open the supply some to keep the cycling down.

So I have most of it figured out. But to be honest, its the presets that are causing me problems right now. Id love it if it came within 2-3lbs of the target. It doesnt though. It can stop lifting, or dropping within 10 lbs of the target preset. So I always have to go to the up or down buttons to get it closer. And I have tried to hit the preset I want again, to see if the pressure sensors would see the actual pressure. No dice. It wouldnt release or pump the needed air to get to the preset. And AFAIK you cant bring up the preset number on the keypad. I always write it down so I know. Cause I dont think you can bring it up again on the keypad. That would be a nice feature. Ill have to re-read the instructions but I dont think you can look at the preset numbers you put in. I dont think it can either LOL KIDDING!!!

For example. I just checked it. I was at #1 and 25lbs. I hit the #3 preset which is supposed to be 98lbs all around. It stopped at 68lbs and the compressors started up. I started the lift with 140 psi (on my mechanical tank gauge, the head unit also said 140), it only dropped to 125lbs but the lift stopped at 68lbs on the springs. I waited for the compressors to stop then hit the #3 button again and it lifted it up to 98lbs.

But thats just an extreme, full down to full up. I can try to go from #1 to #2 (20psi to 70psi) and it will be the same. It will get to around the lower 60s and say thats enough and shut off the supply. 5-8psi is enough to change my front end by a 1/2". Whats frustrating is at 70psi on the front it is at a perfect ride height, AND it will keep it at that height even when running the suspension through some loads. So the springs are doing what they should be doing. The controller is a lil lacking though. An 8psi +or- (8 for a rise or 8 for a drop) results in a good inch of height variation overall.

So I dont get that and Im gonna make a call Tues to see what you guys think. Its been like this from day one. Even without the flow controls I put in.

But over all, I love the system, and I havent even driven on it yet LOL

Talk about the easiest alignment. With my lil homemade alignment tool I could check bumpsteer right there while sitting at the wheel and raising the car with air pressure in 1/2" increments. Camber gain for control arm movement (not body roll) was right there also. Kinda nice to actually see it. And body roll camber gain would be just as simple. I would have had to remove one link front and back from my sway bars though, I wasnt that curious :)

So much nicer to check some measurements without having to physically compress a coil spring. I used to have two heavy duty anchors in the floor to pull the frame down to check some measurements. No more. Adjustable springs are sweet for that.

Now If I could just get the presets to get to the target PSI Id be happy. And Im not even concerned about the ride quality. Im pretty darn sure it will be just as I expect, GREAT!! JR


JRouche...
I am assuming you have the RidePro E2 control system. One thing that we changed w/ the new RidePro E3 system is the ability to "tap" the buttons and make smaller changes in pressure. With the E2, no matter how quick you tapped the button, it would still open the valve for a certain amount of time.

That being said... you are also correct, using psi to level a car in some cases (depending on suspension design and which air springs are used) is not always the best method. Height sensors may be required. On our dually for example, we use a very large air spring on the back to be able to have enough load capacity to haul our 45 enclosed trailer. But unloaded it only requires about 35psi to lift it to ride height. In "most" cases the pressure based systems will hit the target pressure within 2-3 psi. Being off 3 psi can change your spring rate almost 10%. Most passenger cars require 75-90 psi to achieve ride height, 3 psi is only 3-4%.

With your E2, you can change the speed setting to enable it to hit your presets a little closer. Usually around 3 works best.

[yanniz]

I just installed a full Ride Tech system on my '68.....finally got to drive the car a few days ago and it drives like a new car....

Over the years I have tried lower springs, coilovers on front and back, and anything else you can name.....really glad I made the change to Ride Tech and this is my last change re suspension....

Having said that, I do have the new E3 controller, and shocks, et cetera.....I had a heck of a time getting the ride height et cetera to work with air pressure only....It just does not work, period....as mentioned above it never goes back to the same height...

I purchased the Height sensors which will resolve this problem but I have not install them yet....

For now, I change the height manually if the ride height is not correct....I know what the fender to ground distance is for each corner at ride height, and if the car does not return to that point (after I push preset 2) then I adjust manually....takes a couple of minutes so no that big of a deal...

Darren and the guys are truly the best at customer service and I have dealt with many companies over the years.

The car rides like a dream with their suspension.

I did the installation myself, it was not bad at all, I took my time to do it right and took a lot of extra steps (for example run all the lines within a rubber line for protection, et cetera.)

Will I ever buy the system again....yes, this will go on all my cars....I am done with lowering springs and coil over shocks that don't work, et cetera.

It is pricey, but way less money compared to what I spent before on this car's suspension.....

[yanniz]

JR, I will have to try this again to be sure, but with my E3 controller the system hits the presets right on....

the problem is that the car is never at the correct ride height even when the psi is the same (suspension bind, et cetera.)

If you are going from preset 1 to preset 2, forget it.....if you are going from higher to preset 2 works ok..

Not sure what car you have but you will get frustrated with air pressure only....you might want to make the jump to height sensors....

P.S. you will love the way your car will ride with this system....

[AZSaleen04]

Thanks for sharing your feedback on the air suspension. What does a kit run for the front and back and what options are there?

[JRouche]

JR, I will have to try this again to be sure, but with my E3 controller the system hits the presets right on....

the problem is that the car is never at the correct ride height even when the psi is the same (suspension bind, et cetera.)

If you are going from preset 1 to preset 2, forget it.....if you are going from higher to preset 2 works ok..

Not sure what car you have but you will get frustrated with air pressure only....you might want to make the jump to height sensors....

P.S. you will love the way your car will ride with this system....

Its nice to see some others using the ART springs. Yup, I agree with everything you said. Same things that I have noticed. And to be honest, I dont mind spending a lil time dialing in the ride height. My air system is leak free (very important) so I can set it for the correct height and come back a day or two and its still correct.

I dont play with the height much. But a guy might want to. So if that was his desire then a ride height sensor would prolly be in his best interest. The Titanium series shockwaves would be the ticket. JR