Is there an LS1 conversion kit for the rear?

[68firebird]

I just bought an LS1 conversion kit and some calipers for the front of the firebird, but my question is does anyone sell a LS1 conversion kit for the rear? I can't seem to find one, or do i just need a bracket like the one below and supply the calipers and rotors? I'm not 100% sure what rearend is in the car, all I know is it was originally a straight six car, so I'm sure its one of GM's weakest rearends, if that matters. thanks for any help.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/05e4_35JPG-1.jpg

[DEIGuy38]

Tobin at KORE3 is your best call to make on these items.

http://www.kore3.com/

Email: [email protected]
Orders: 800.357.5467
Tech: 541.924.5673

[gort69]

Factory LS1 brakes are about as close to a bolt-on swap as there is. A minor amount of fabricating is necessary, but nothing terribly difficult. The real advantage of the LS1 swap in my opinion is the excellent drum-in-rotor hat parking brake. The brakes themselvers are excellent as well.

Here's a writeup I did on the swap at Team Camaro.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161383

[68firebird]

Factory LS1 brakes are about as close to a bolt-on swap as there is. A minor amount of fabricating is necessary, but nothing terribly difficult. The real advantage of the LS1 swap in my opinion is the excellent drum-in-rotor hat parking brake. The brakes themselvers are excellent as well.

Here's a writeup I did on the swap at Team Camaro.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161383

thank you Al. In your spacer section you mention that it goes between the LS1 backing plate and the axle flange, my question is where did you find the LS1 backing plate, I can't seem to find them anywhere. I can find the calipers and rotors and thats it. Can I use a bracket like the one pictured above? I'm sorry, I'm a total newbie at this.

[dhutton]

thank you Al. In your spacer section you mention that it goes between the LS1 backing plate and the axle flange, my question is where did you find the LS1 backing plate, I can't seem to find them anywhere. I can find the calipers and rotors and thats it. Can I use a bracket like the one pictured above? I'm sorry, I'm a total newbie at this.

BRP Hotrods sells them on their website and also on ebay.

[slammed68]

look in the classifieds section of LS1tech.com or on ebay. i got my backing plates off ls1tech there are usually quite a few cars being parted out..

[68firebird]

Ok guys, I'm in negotiations with this guy on ebay, is $195 shipped for these complete rear brakes a good price?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/BmS6p4gmkKGrHqQHDQEtypPD9jBLfKjTl8w_12JP-1.jpg

[gort69]

Ok guys, I'm in negotiations with this guy on ebay, is $195 shipped for these complete rear brakes a good price?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/BmS6p4gmkKGrHqQHDQEtypPD9jBLfKjTl8w_12JP-1.jpg

Well it's an "OK" price. Personally, I wouldn't pay to have rusty old crappy rotors shipped across the country. For the price you pay to have the extra weight shipped you'd be well on your way to buying new rotors at your local parts house. They aren't expensive.

You also have to remember that your 68 bird has staggered shocks. Some have made it work using a R and a L LS1 backing plate. I used two Ls, so essentially had to buy two sets, as it's hard - but not unheard of - to get just one.

Somewhere in the article I linked is another link to GM part numbers. The backing plates are still available new AFAIK - not sure on the prices. Here it is http://www.poltergeist.us/page/Elky/Brakes/F-body/ls1brakes.htm

PS In the write-up I linked, I said 3/8 seems to be be the most common thickness for the spacer. Scratch that, I meant to say 3/16".

[68firebird]

K, I'll skip on that then, thank you. I'm gonna try and find those damn backing plates.

[gort69]

Yeah, if you're not in a rush you can do better. I pulled a complete set of rears off of a low mileage '00 for $100. Craigslist deal.

[rickpaw]

K, I'll skip on that then, thank you. I'm gonna try and find those damn backing plates.

If you're not in a hurry, wait for it on ebay. I bought mine for $90 shipped, minus the rotors.

[68firebird]

If you're not in a hurry, wait for it on ebay. I bought mine for $90 shipped, minus the rotors.

yea, I'm not in a rush, so I'll keep an eye on ebay and at the same time keep browsing other companies rear conversions. thanks guys.

[dhutton]

K, I'll skip on that then, thank you. I'm gonna try and find those damn backing plates.

They are on ebay for $39 from BRP Hotrods:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10-12-bolt-GM-rear-disc-Conversion-kit-ls1-big-brakes-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca7169479QQitemZ26050 1312633QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

[a67]

They are on ebay for $39 from BRP Hotrods:

They aren't backing plates. Just a spacer. Which I am not sure are even required. After removing the drum brake anchor portion of the flange and re-drilled the holes. I've bolted stock LS1 backing plates right to the tube flange of corporate 10-bolts.

Note that in the Team Camaro thread that conversion required a .180 - .200 spacer between the backing plates and the tube flanges. Although the installer didn't mention whether the rear was the early 10-bolt or a 12-bolt.

Bob.

[gort69]

It's an 8.2" 10 bolt from a 68 Camaro. My understanding is that the early 12 bolts are the same.

I mentioned in the write-up that some don't use a spacer at all, and to mock it up and have a look see. Mine was definitely in need - the rotor would have grazed the abutment, or at least very close, I forget exactly.

Have read that the axle plant wasn't terribly consistent in where the flange was welded in relation to the axle face.

Being that it's a floating caliper probably not necessary to get it dead nuts centered, but as close as you can.

The spacer - if needed - not only centers the rotor in the abutment, it also properly locates the e-brake shoe in the rotor hat.

I'm switching to an 8.5 10 bolt from a 79 Nova in a month or so, and will re-visit that part of the swap.

[Apogee]

Not to make things more complicated, but it makes a difference if you're working with a BOP 10/12-bolt with positively retained axles versus a 10/12-bolt with c-clips. The center hole on the LS1 backing plates is 72mm [2.835"] and the BOP axle bearing has only a 2.75" outside diameter. What this means is that you'll need to machine a spacer to go between your original retainer (assuming it can move outward on the axle far enough) or machine your own retainer. Anything that isn't an open "C" profile or two pieces will require the removal of the axle bearings for installation.

Tobin
KORE3

[ed1le]

They are on ebay for $39 from BRP Hotrods:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10-12-bolt-GM-rear-disc-Conversion-kit-ls1-big-brakes-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca7169479QQitemZ26050 1312633QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries

I was looking at these as well. In the item description they mention an available inboard shock mounting kit they have allowing the use of both L & R calipers.

[DAK]

They are on ebay for $39 from BRP Hotrods:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10-12-bolt-GM-rear-disc-Conversion-kit-ls1-big-brakes-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca7169479QQitemZ26050 1312633QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10-12-bolt-GM-rear-disc-Conversion-kit-ls1-big-brakes-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3ca7169479QQitemZ26050 1312633QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccesso ries)

Those spacers are needed to take up the space of the original drum backing plates. Im abit frugal so a couple $'s worth of washers work just fine too.




Not to make things more complicated, but it makes a difference if you're working with a BOP 10/12-bolt with positively retained axles versus a 10/12-bolt with c-clips. The center hole on the LS1 backing plates is 72mm [2.835"] and the BOP axle bearing has only a 2.75" outside diameter. What this means is that you'll need to machine a spacer to go between your original retainer (assuming it can move outward on the axle far enough) or machine your own retainer. Anything that isn't an open "C" profile or two pieces will require the removal of the axle bearings for installation.

Tobin
KORE3

When I swapped the blazer rear discs onto my olds 10bolt my first thought was similar to that. The other brain storm I had was that I found everything bolts up perfectly by slotting the axle retainer to remove it so the disc mounting plates can be installed on the axle first and bolted to the outside of the axle retainer.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[cdoggy81]

Ed, that is correct but I don't see it listed on their web page anymore :( I have it on my car (& may sell it b/c of the $$$ suspension parts I got) so if you need pics LMK & I can try to post some.

[317millhand]

FYI, I wouldnt waste your money on the BRP spacers. I just did this conversion on a 70 chevelle 12 bolt and the spacers did not center the abutment. I still ended up having to add washers to get centered. May as well just save $40 and make your own spacers. And, on the chevelle I mounted the calipers and backing plates on opp. sides so the Ebrake levers would pull forward.

[Stoker420]

I have some backing plates if you want them 50 plus shipping

[hifi875]

i run the brp kit on the rear of my 69 and they work good for me. plus like was said earlier you get to use a left and right instead of two of the same side. it looks really jacked up to see a car w/caliper on one side facing forward and the other side facing rearward.

[gort69]

i run the brp kit on the rear of my 69 and they work good for me. plus like was said earlier you get to use a left and right instead of two of the same side. it looks really jacked up to see a car w/caliper on one side facing forward and the other side facing rearward.

Try as I might, I've never been able to see more than one side of my car at a time.

[ed1le]

try as i might, i've never been able to see more than one side of my car at a time.

lol

[importkiller69ss]

so not to hijack this thread but if u buy the brackets from brp this allows you to use the r and left harware rather than two lefts if u have staggered shocks..

[hifi875]

i have a shock relocation kit from them. yea i can only see one side of my car at a time, but still knowing that bugs me. ive never seen any other cars that are like that.

[MrQuick]

Ok guys, I'm in negotiations with this guy on ebay, is $195 shipped for these complete rear brakes a good price?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/BmS6p4gmkKGrHqQHDQEtypPD9jBLfKjTl8w_12JP-1.jpg
$195 is a great price shipped. You should have jumped. Local yards won't even sell them without buying the whole rear end. Average online price is $200 without shipping.

All you need is a 1/8" - 1/4" spacer depending on your rear. You can make one for cheap. I have even cut the center out of the old drum backing plate and used it as a spacer plate with success.

Try to find a 72 Nova rear, 8.5 in ring gear and cheap parts would make a geat swap for your bird.

If you relocate your shocks you will be able to use the left and rights as designed.

Vince

[68firebird]

i have a shock relocation kit from them. yea i can only see one side of my car at a time, but still knowing that bugs me. ive never seen any other cars that are like that.


yea, I kinda think the same way, I think just knowing its not symetrical would bother me.

[68firebird]

$195 is a great price shipped. You should have jumped. Local yards won't even sell them without buying the whole rear end. Average online price is $200 without shipping.

All you need is a 1/8" - 1/4" spacer depending on your rear. You can make one for cheap. I have even cut the center out of the old drum backing plate and used it as a spacer plate with success.

Try to find a 72 Nova rear, 8.5 in ring gear and cheap parts would make a geat swap for your bird.

If you relocate your shocks you will be able to use the left and rights as designed.

Vince

thanks for the advice Vince, I think I'm just gonna leave the drums on the back for now until more funds are available, same goes for the rear, I'd love to change it all out now, trust me. but I'm dying to drive this thing around again!!!

[zamora7]

$195 is a great price shipped. You should have jumped. Local yards won't even sell them without buying the whole rear end. Average online price is $200 without shipping.

Vince


I have seen these rearends go for $200 complete.

I'm also wanting to do the ls1 brake conversion on my 2nd gen T/A but not sure what needs to be done. I actually have a complete ls1/t56 dropout with k-member and all. That being said I can take the callipers and hardware off of that and put them in my 2nd gen, right? Or what else is needed?

[MrQuick]

I have seen these rearends go for $200 complete.

I'm also wanting to do the ls1 brake conversion on my 2nd gen T/A but not sure what needs to be done. I actually have a complete ls1/t56 dropout with k-member and all. That being said I can take the callipers and hardware off of that and put them in my 2nd gen, right? Or what else is needed?
rears are easy but not sure about the fronts...If I remember right you need the same bracket as the C5 kit. Best bet to check with Tobin at Kore.


Vince

[zamora7]

rears are easy but not sure about the fronts...If I remember right you need the same bracket as the C5 kit. Best bet to check with Tobin at Kore.


Vince

Are they sponsors on here? Can't find them on the right of the site.

[MrQuick]

yes he is.... member screen name Apogee heres his site... http://www.kore3.com/


Vince

[zamora7]

I thought he was.... member screen name Apogee heres his site... http://www.kore3.com/


Vince
Cool, thanks for the link and his screen name, I will send him a PM or email here shortly. Thanks again.

[Vicinity]

Hate to revive old threads, but it's relevant.

As far as the rear e-brake goes, why can't the e-brake cable from the LS1 just be wrapped around the rear like a 4th gen?

Can I just chop the rear of the cable (the part that connects to the backing plate/brake) and connect/weld/whatever it to the stock 1st gen parking brake cable?

I read the link on camaros.net, I'm not familiar with the terms, so I'm unsure as what to make of it.

[gort69]

Hate to revive old threads, but it's relevant.

As far as the rear e-brake goes, why can't the e-brake cable from the LS1 just be wrapped around the rear like a 4th gen? Sure you can - I just wanted mine to pull toward the front and not have to snake very long cables around the exhaust. But it would work just fine.

Can I just chop the rear of the cable (the part that connects to the backing plate/brake) and connect/weld/whatever it to the stock 1st gen parking brake cable? I suppose, but youll still need some sort of cable housing stop. The factory drums use the backing plates as the housing stops. I think it's easier to shorten the LS1 cables and build a simple bracket.

I read the link on camaros.net, I'm not familiar with the terms, so I'm unsure as what to make of it.

I did the writeup on Camaros.net, and don't mind answering any questions you might have. There is certainly more than one way to skin a cat. Ask away!

[gearheads78]

I think most of you missed Tobins post above. Assuming this is a Pontiac rear with bolt in axles more is needed than just a spacer to make this work. The bearing retainer sticks out past the axle flange so if you just mount the LS1 backing plate with a spacer then you axles have about an half inch to slid in and out. I did mine using a collar / spacer I had made on a lathe. (See below) This allows the proper bearing retention with the much thicker LS1 backplate. You do have to pull the bearings off the axle to do it that way though.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ProTour69Bird]

how thick is the collar you made, or will it vary between axles?

what size wheels do these LS'ers clear. i have my stocker ralley II's (14") right now.

this will be kind of an inbetween upgrade for me if they clear the 14's, if not i'll drum it a lil longer. winter brings, C5 Z's in 18's

[Vicinity]

how thick is the collar you made, or will it vary between axles?

what size wheels do these LS'ers clear. i have my stocker ralley II's (14") right now.

this will be kind of an inbetween upgrade for me if they clear the 14's, if not i'll drum it a lil longer. winter brings, C5 Z's in 18's

They MIGHT clear 15 inch wheels, but stock ls1 wheels were 16 inches.

[claytonisbob]

I've seem people say that they might clear 15's, but I wonder what 15's they may actually clear. It would be nice to know of a wheel that clears in we want to get a set of stickies for the strip. 15's just seem appropriate.

[ed1le]

I've seen plenty of LS1 T/A's & Camaro's running 15" Draglites, Pro Stars, etc.

[Vicinity]

I've seen plenty of LS1 T/A's & Camaro's running 15" Draglites, Pro Stars, etc.

A lot of people on LS1Tech have done it, but you really have to grind the calipers down quite a bit.

[gort69]

The S10 rear discs might be a better choice if you want to run 15" wheels. Very similar to the LS1 rears, smaller rotors, with the added bonus of having the e-brake cable bracket built in.

[gearheads78]

I have had several street / strip LS1 cars with 15" Welds. You have to grind a bunch on the caliper and bracket to make it work. Bogarts drag wheels will bolt on with no grinding though so there might be some billet wheels that could be made to work.

[BonzoHansen]

I think billet specialties makes a wheel that fits over those brakes with no grinding.

[claytonisbob]

I wonder how strong those Billet Specialties Street Light wheels are. They have thin-ish looking spokes,l I wonder if I got a set of them for a set of autocross if they could distort much. If not they are a nice looking wheel for the money, and are available with custom backspacing.

[DarkoNova]

So if I have an 8.5" rear out of a late 70's Nova, all I need are the spacers to mount these? I bought a rear LS1 brake setup a year or two ago and it's been sitting in my garage the entire time, so I don't know if I have the backing plates or not. Are the backing plates necessary?

Matt

[a67]

So if I have an 8.5" rear out of a late 70's Nova, all I need are the spacers to mount these? I bought a rear LS1 brake setup a year or two ago and it's been sitting in my garage the entire time, so I don't know if I have the backing plates or not. Are the backing plates necessary?

Matt

Yes, the backing plates are required. They hold the parking brake shoe and mechanism for it. The caliper mount is also built into it.

Bob

[73z-6sp]

Factory LS1 brakes are about as close to a bolt-on swap as there is. A minor amount of fabricating is necessary, but nothing terribly difficult. The real advantage of the LS1 swap in my opinion is the excellent drum-in-rotor hat parking brake. The brakes themselvers are excellent as well.

Here's a writeup I did on the swap at Team Camaro.

http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=161383


Great write-up! Thanks!

One question though. What did you do about the soft brake line? IIRC it doesnt mate with the flared ends on our old cars.

Thanks

[gort69]

That's the easy part! I ordered them in SS braid from Tobin at Kore3. 45 degree SAE inverted flare on one end and the correct banjo fitting on the other end. Reasonable price as well. Just name the length.

[DarkoNova]

Ok so I just put these on my car tonight. Quick question, the calipers mount on the front side of the axle, right? I didn't think to check before installing them, but I installed the backing plates with the calipers in front of the axle, and I installed the calipers with the bleeder valves above the brake line.

Is that the right way?


That's the easy part! I ordered them in SS braid from Tobin at Kore3. 45 degree SAE inverted flare on one end and the correct banjo fitting on the other end. Reasonable price as well. Just name the length.

Did you cut the hard line to shorten it at all? Or did you just leave it as is?

[gort69]

I can't remember - does a 69 Nova have staggered shocks?

If your shocks don't interfere with the calipers, you should be fine - just make sure the bleeder nipple is at the top of the caliper.

Another thing to consider is the direction of the e-brake cable pull. I recall that the LS1 Camaros had both calipers to the front of the axle, and the e-brake cables looped over the axle and pulled from the rear. If it makes more sense in your install to have the cables pull from the front, just switch the LH assembly to the right side and the RH assembly to the left side, then the cables will pull from the front.

If you are replacing drum brakes, then yes - you need to modify the hard lines on the axle. You will need to mount a bracket on the axle tubes for the hardline/flexline connection. Lots of different ways/places to mount the bracket. I welded mine, but some guys use a bracket that can be attached with a large hose clamp. Here are the best photos I have of my setup.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSCN0953-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/DSCN0952-1.jpg

[DarkoNova]

Yeah it's got staggered shocks, but the rear end is an 8.5" 10 bolt out of a later Camaro or Nova (can't remember which) so it's slightly wider than stock. Calipers fit fine, which was pretty sweet, lol.

You think JB Weld would hold the bracket? Seriously, lol. I don't have a welder so that's the best I can do, haha.

[claytonisbob]

As much as I love JB weld, I don't think that's a good place for it. The vibrations will probably crack it off fairly quickly.

[MrQuick]

Yeah it's got staggered shocks, but the rear end is an 8.5" 10 bolt out of a later Camaro or Nova (can't remember which) so it's slightly wider than stock. Calipers fit fine, which was pretty sweet, lol.

You think JB Weld would hold the bracket? Seriously, lol. I don't have a welder so that's the best I can do, haha.

just use a 3"-3 1/2" hose clamp Matt.

just for information sake.

rear GM part numbers as of 12/2010

Rear LS1
12455127 caliper rear LS1 left hand $79.32 2 required for staggered shocks
12455128 caliper rear LS1 right hand $78.70
12456459 rear abutment/pad bracket $31.85
10444626 right hand plate backing/park $81.60 L&R complete with parking brake assembly
10444625 left hand backing/park plate $82.24 2 required for staggered shocks

[gort69]

The JB weld - as good as it is - would fail just tightening the flex line to the hard line. You can use the hose clamp style bracket, or find a buddy with a 120V mig who can come over and weld it for you. It's a simple job. http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10021-02

[DarkoNova]

The JB weld - as good as it is - would fail just tightening the flex line to the hard line. You can use the hose clamp style bracket, or find a buddy with a 120V mig who can come over and weld it for you. It's a simple job. http://www.kore3.com/proddetail.php?prod=10021-02

Awesome, thanks for the link. I'll just use those, then.