first gen completely rusted body shells used in a heavily modified build

[Doug1]

I have seen several projects like "Unfair" where a first gen camaro is so rusty that it is stripped down to a few remaining pieces and stitched back together with aftermarket sheetmetal.

Now I am stating upfront that I know very little about 1st gens and the afermarket parts. I am a second gen guy all the way.

So I would like to ask this question just to learn why this is done this way.

Do the builds have to be done this way to legally be considered a restoration? For example, if the owner had the original factory car all rusted to pieces and dynacorn makes a replacement body shell, would it be faster to take the few pieces of metal that we see left over from the orignial car, and then remove that metal from the dynacorn body and replace it with the orginal pieces. Is that illegal when you end up with the same ratio of aftermarket sheetmetal to factory sheetmetal? Are the dynacorn bodies that far out of factory spec or does it have to be done this way to utilize the Vin from the factory camaro?

I know lots of guys want the "real" deal but if you are not going for a full tilt restoration and you end up with virtually the same ratio of factory to aftermarket sheet metal, why not go that route to save a ton of time?

I am mainly curious on the pro-touring cars where you end up so heavily modifying all parts of the car that being perfectly factory correct would seem to be a moot point.

I am sure there are lots of good reasons and would like to learn what they are. No flames please! Just looking for the real reasons they are done this way.

[MrQuick]

Some guys are just so talented thats the way they like it. Some say its insane but others do see it as normal.

i love starting with a steaming pile of poo and putting that labor in. Its much more satisfying.

This has been subject of great debate but what ever you choose just prepare for it.

Full tilt panel replacment or full on body replacment its up to the builder. check you local laws regarding vin tag replacement.
vince

[Doug1]

Some guys are just so talented thats the way they like it. Some say its insane but others do see it as normal.

i love starting with a steaming pile of poo and putting that labor in. Its much more satisfying.

This has been subject of great debate but what ever you choose just prepare for it.

Full tilt panel replacment or full on body replacment its up to the builder. check you local laws regarding vin tag replacement.
vince

I am not going to be doing a first gen any time soon. I have a second gen project that Frank is just starting on at Prodigy Customs. I am just trying to learn.

[MrQuick]

I know,cool,
I like to throw out random relevent information as it may help others when the search comes up.

What you got going with the 2nd gen?

Vince

[srh3trinity]

I have wondered this same thing myself. I have heard the Dynacorn bodies have their share of issues, but with as much body work as some of these shells require, I would think that the Dynacorn body would win out on hours invested. I do think it is cool that these guys are saving cars that are essentially too far gone for the average hobbyist to reclaim and therefore, their fate would be sealed, rusting away in somebody's yard. These old bodies have souls.

[ProdigyCustoms]

The Dynacorn body is a good option for some really rusted car. Because we were raising the floor and trunk flooor and replacng the frame rails, we did not really want a car with a good floor. And we did not want to throw away the floor on a new Dynacorm body.

We are building our own firewall. Every Camaro needs quarters, and we are making our own mini tubs for a little extra clearance.

So at the end of the day we only need the a pillars and cowl to start with. If we would have spent $14k for a Synacorn body it would have been trimmed to nothing anyway.

Same for Michaels Project Prodigy. That car was designed as a full frame from the get go, so we found a car with no floor. We paid $1300 for it and sold the good parts off E bay for $1600. So we ended up negative $300 in it for the parts we actually needed.

Although it may not look like it sometimes, Cost is a factor for us always. We do our cars weekends and nights, and while it could be argued if we were working on customer cars extra time we could put that money into a done body. We usually put a low value on our labor on our own stuff cause it is fun. So the less we start with the less it cost.

And it make for great before and after pics.

[dhutton]

i love starting with a steaming pile of poo and putting that labor in. Its much more satisfying.


vince

LOL, same for me. I also find it easier to buy the parts than to cut a check for a $14000 Dynacorn shell. I just couldn't do it.

[Finch]

If you have some talent you can replace all the bad parts much cheaper than a dynacorn body and if done right it will be much closer in terms of fitment when you start the body work.

As Frank said, most of the car is not used in a full build anyway so starting with a turd is the best way to go.

[Vegas69]

I've said it before, I want the soul of my car to be original. Not made in China or where ever. To me, a first gen camaro represents the American spirit. Sure there are some foreign parts on my car, but as few as possible.

[AintQik]

Same reason I bought a 6 cyl car, it hurts us car guys to cut up "good" cars. To each their own, but when I see numbers matching, rarer cars, like an RS, or Z, or K code get all cut up to pro tour it I throw up a lil in my mouth. I love pro touring and really have no desire for a nut and bolt match trailer queen, but they are only virgin once. So, if ya gots skills take a heap and fix it.

Plus it is fun. I can't wait for my boy to start asking to drive my 67. I'm going to find the most wore out, rusted hunk of crap and trailer it home for him. Hand him the welder, pull up the lawn chair and a beer and tell him to have at it. He will probably not turn out to be a Michael at Prodigy, but he will be better than his old man (meaning me, not Frank at Prodigy lol).

[MrQuick]

The Dynacorn body is a good option for some really rusted car. Because we were raising the floor and trunk flooor and replacng the frame rails, we did not really want a car with a good floor. And we did not want to throw away the floor on a new Dynacorm body.

We are building our own firewall. Every Camaro needs quarters, and we are making our own mini tubs for a little extra clearance.

So at the end of the day we only need the a pillars and cowl to start with. If we would have spent $14k for a Synacorn body it would have been trimmed to nothing anyway.

Same for Michaels Project Prodigy. That car was designed as a full frame from the get go, so we found a car with no floor. We paid $1300 for it and sold the good parts off E bay for $1600. So we ended up negative $300 in it for the parts we actually needed.

Although it may not look like it sometimes, Cost is a factor for us always. We do our cars weekends and nights, and while it could be argued if we were working on customer cars extra time we could put that money into a done body. We usually put a low value on our labor on our own stuff cause it is fun. So the less we start with the less it cost.

And it make for great before and after pics. I think the Dynacorn bodies are getting better, some of the early ones were like wuuummmfff.

If I had the money to spend I'd rather send a check to Mike over at MCC. http://www.mikescustomcars.com/

Vince

[John Wright]

When one of these get cut into little pieces, I have to wonder how in the world do they get the sucker put back together and have it all fit again without having to take parts back off and re-do them over and over to make it all work together again. is there a set of master plans somewhere detailing out all of the critical dimensions and locations for all of those panels?(speaking of the shell)

[XLexusTech]

In NY as long as there are 2 adjoining walls still standing you can turn those two walls into a 8000 Sq foot mansion and it's considered a renovation. This skirts much of the legalities and challenges related to getting a new building permit for a new 800o foot home on a empty lot..
Same rule applies here....

[Ron.in.SoCal]

Full tilt panel replacment or full on body replacment its up to the builder. check you local laws regarding vin tag replacement.
vince

Spot on. I think VIN replacement in So(cialist) Cali is a no-no...

[srh3trinity]

I've said it before, I want the soul of my car to be original. Not made in China or where ever. To me, a first gen camaro represents the American spirit. Sure there are some foreign parts on my car, but as few as possible.

I fully understand this side of it and referenced that in my post. It makes sense that a proper shop can tear it down and build it back up. I have learned with my personal home repair that I can start from scratch on something and it usually comes out better or takes less time than re-doing something.

[Doug1]

I know,cool,
What you got going with the 2nd gen?

Vince

Ask Frank! He is the keeper of all secrets. I'm am following his lead.

I'd love to have a build thread but it is just beginning and there are some major parts that won't be in for almost 6 weeks.

I will give the only couple of teaser pics I have... The motor is done and sitting on a pallet with temporary valve covers to keep the dust out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMGP7460sm-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMGP7389sm-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/IMAGE_149-1.jpg

[MrQuick]

haaa haaaa eeeerrrrr "denied". LOL
wow, enter sandman....does not look like fun.

well, just don't forget to post a ton of pictures when you do.
vince

[69fbodyproject]

Ill make you just sick here. My brothers Camaro is a 69 Z/28 that has 33000 original miles, that was cut and build into a race car in 1971. Its been redone a few times over the years, but its kinda sad knowing that it was a real z/28 someone cut to make a race car out of so shortly after it was made. But it is a pretty nice race car.

[MrQuick]

It was not uncommon, remember that cars were like they are today. We had no idea they would be worth so much now. Think about how you feel about a 2002 Camaro Z28 anniversay edition? Or a 2002 Firebird Trans Am special edition. Same feel.


vince

[CRCRFT78]

I have to agree with Todd in a way. They are only original once. I understand things have to be repaired & replaced but at what point does it become a reproduction body with an original structure and vin tag? You always see ads for a #s matching original with original panels but you never see an ad saying its a restored original with every possible aftermarket replacement panel used. I know that would only matter to a lot of the serious collectors and not someone looking to cut up a car but that has to affect value of the same car. I.E. an all original 1969 z/28 vs a 1969 z/28 restored with all aftermarket panels.