getting a pistol in CT

[megaladon6]

i'm looking at getting my pistol permit (while i still can) and was wondering if anyone knew a good dealer in CT. i live in ridgefield and work in danbury, but of course i have no problems driving much farther.
i'm also taking suggestions on what pistol. i'm partial to 1911 based models, definitely no smaller than a .40, something that takes abuse and is relatively accurate, but not expensive.
it will technically be a defensive weapon, but i really don't expect to use it for more than killing paper targets.
thanks
BTW, i have no problem with a well cared for used weapon.

[madmax]

i'm looking at getting my pistol permit (while i still can) and was wondering if anyone knew a good dealer in CT. i live in ridgefield and work in danbury, but of course i have no problems driving much farther.
i'm also taking suggestions on what pistol. i'm partial to 1911 based models, definitely no smaller than a .40, something that takes abuse and is relatively accurate, but not expensive.
it will technically be a defensive weapon, but i really don't expect to use it for more than killing paper targets.
thanks
BTW, i have no problem with a well cared for used weapon.

They banning guns in CT?

[megaladon6]

considering some of what i'm hearing from washington it may become impossible to get one anywhere. but can we stop here? i don't want this to become political.

[wicked68]

considering some of what i'm hearing from washington it may become impossible to get one anywhere. but can we stop here? i don't want this to become political.


the day that happens you will find it very easy to get one in the southern (and probably most red)states the next day ;)

we welcome our gun loving brothers any time :D

[jocko124]

I would purchase online and just take delivery at a local dealer for a nominal fee---assuming that is an option in CT. I would recommend topgunsupply.com

[megaladon6]

wicked: that's why i'm hoping my company decides to move down to S carolina. so much easier. but i think i'd miss the snow and people who talk fast (i grew up in/by NY city) :)
anyone have an XD40?
or opinions about 10mm vs .40 vs .45?
jocko: thanks for the link! they seem to have some pretty good prices. i have to check on the shipping thing
thanks

[jocko124]

Megaladon,

you're welcome. They have an excellent selection of Sig Sauers. I have a .40 Stainless P229R Elite with Hogue Extreme Aluminum Grips. They're pricey, but well worth it. I use mine primarily as my side arm for hunting. As far as .40 vs .45, it's all preference in my opinion. A buddy of mine has a P220R Super Match .45ACP and the accuracy of that pistol is impressive, to say the least.

[go-fish]

I am partial to Sig Sauer myself. Carry a P228 everyday and my personal pistol is a P226. I plan on getting a P229 or P250 very soon.
There are concerns I hear about XD's. They are made in East Europe I believe and before Springfield bought them they did'nt sell very well. Bring in Springfield and thier name along with mass marketing and they are selling well. I forgot what the problems people had but I wasn't ever concerned since I am a Sig fan.
I have also heard that Kimber's quality was slipping but ny uncle's 1911 is a dead on accurate piece. That goes to show you there are as many differing opinions as there are brands. I suggest going to a range that rents firearms and see what you like for yourself.
I personally like the Sig Sauer models that you can change calibers by changing barrels, .45/357Sig/ and 9mm.
9mm is cheap to shoot on the range and within 15 seconds with a quick change of the barrel you can have a man-stopper .45 ACP on your hip, one gun.

[megaladon6]

unfortunately sig is out of my price range. hell their used ones are at or over my limit.

[andrewb70]

wicked: that's why i'm hoping my company decides to move down to S carolina. so much easier. but i think i'd miss the snow and people who talk fast (i grew up in/by NY city) :)
anyone have an XD40?
or opinions about 10mm vs .40 vs .45?
jocko: thanks for the link! they seem to have some pretty good prices. i have to check on the shipping thing
thanks

I have experience with an XDM40. It's made in Croatia. Works as advertised. It's big. Fit's nicely in my big hands. Packs a punch. Nice trigger, it's accurate. I wish it was a double/single action.

Andrew

[19,69camaro]

Try Newington Gun Exchange they have tons of used stuff and their inventory changes daily also Hoffmans on the Berlint turnpike is right down the road. You said you were looking at getting you pistol permit? Does that mean you havent taken the course yet? I think the wait right now is about 9 weeks from when you finish the course and submit your paperwork depending on your town so I would focus on that first and worry about getting toys later if I were you. Also dont weed out a nice 22 plinker you can shoot all day for a fraction of the cost.

[madmax]

considering some of what i'm hearing from washington it may become impossible to get one anywhere. but can we stop here? i don't want this to become political.

I can stop after I say that this administration has done nothing but increase gun owners rights, including allowing guns to be checked as luggage on Amtrak trains, carried in national parks, upheld laws limiting the use of government information on traced firearms, and even tried to get them allowed on college campuses (which was shot down - har har).

But, good luck with your search. My dad had a Glock 22 for a long time (primarily for home defense) and was a great gun, and I've put many rounds through it. He got rid of it for a few reasons: didn't like that the only safety was the trigger, and it misfired on him a few times. Sold it and picked up an XD-40 Sub-Compact for about $415.

I haven't gotten it to the range yet, but just playing around with it, feels like a really solid gun. It's obviously smaller (feels great, IMO, the Glock was a little big for defensive weapon - if I were a cop and had it on my hip it would be fine). It's a tad heavier, but negligible, and feels solid. It's also got some nifty features: a grip safety as well as the trigger, ambidextrous magazine release, and has a striker and chamber indicator - for tactile and visual confirmation (very neat)... no more 'is there a round in there?'.

Not to pimp the XD-40, but if it shoots as well as it feels... :smoke:

If you can wait a week, I might be able to give you a real review.


Max

[Cvarney]

I've got a glock 23 .40 cal and I think it's the perfect size or home defense. It not very big at all, but not a "pocket" size auto either. I've handled an XD before but never put rounds down range with one. And my Kimber I wouldn't trade for the world. Got it a couple years ago, so I dont know of current quality, but mine has been flawless.

[Humbug53]

I can stop after I say that this administration has done nothing but increase gun owners rights,
Is that including the 18 states that this administration has already duped into accepting the Ammunition Accountability Act? Check out HB4258 and HB4259. What good is letting gun restrictions relax a little bit, if they take away our right to own and keep ammunition?

[2ndgenhunter]

I've got a glock 23 .40 cal and I think it's the perfect size or home defense. It not very big at all, but not a "pocket" size auto either. I've handled an XD before but never put rounds down range with one. And my Kimber I wouldn't trade for the world. Got it a couple years ago, so I dont know of current quality, but mine has been flawless.


I'm with Cvarney. I have 2 Glock 23s, 2 Glock 27s and a Taurus 4410 "The Judge". I love my Glocks. Great guns for the money. I shoot my guns alot. Ive been through atleast 4 boxes of ammo in each of my Glocks. They shoot just as good today as the day I bought them. 1 27 is new. I bought it for my wife. I got it for about 500 bucks. FWIW.

As for the permit. GA is turning permits around in 6-8 days.lol
Good Luck with your hunt.

[mc84_zz4]

The 1911 is extremely reliable and you can customize anything, the Glock, Sigma, & other polymer-bodied are light and simple, many carry high capacity. (9mm - 17 rnd, .40cal - 14 rnd, depending, you could carry 50 rounds in 3 magazines).
The 1911 is also the slimmest of .45s that I know, very comfortable and natural in the grip.

If you get a semi-auto, I highly recommend polishing the feed ramp where the round rubs on before chambering.
(Dremel, buffing wheel, jewelers rouge, & 10mins)
An old salty dog at the range showed us his HK, and it was almost mirror polished.
We tried it on my Sigma 9mm and my friends Glock which was new and jammed a few times that day, never had a single misfeed or misfires since.

Try a revolver if you like simple or if you want big power. A 357 Magnum or 45 Magnum is a cannon.
Get a good brand weapon that you can trust, do not go for a cheap-o. You get what you pay for.

As somebody suggested, check with your local ranges on what they have for testing.
The gun safety/concealed carry course is also a great situation awareness exposure, worth every penny, many advanced classes are also offered, usually taught by experienced force/military guys, great knowlege tap.

BTW, when you go to the range (with narrow stalls or next to wall) with a semi-auto, button your shirt collar well, hot brass down the collar is NOT cool.

[kochevy67]

Sig Sauer all the way.

[jy211]

Sig Sauer
Smith & Wesson
Springfield
Kimber

just a few brands. Go and see which feels best in your hand.

[cheapthrillz]

You say that you are getting your carry permit correct? From experience, I can tell you that most, If not all of the guns mentioned are very hard to carry in "light" clothing. I know it stays a little colder up in CT, but in SC, I have to carefully pick out my clothing so that my gun doesn't magically apear and scare the hell out of somebody.

I carry a Glock 19C with me at ALL TIMES when I'm not at work (I work at a lot of K-12 schools during the day... construction). It is a pain in the ass to hide in the warm months, when all I where is a t-shirt and shorts.

What are your plans for carrying the gun? How often? How "oversized" are the clothes that you wear? Are you planning on getting a shoulder harness? These are just a few things that you need to think about.

I'm 6' 1" and about 180 lbs. I wear clothes that are a little too small (because I dont like having sleeves down to my elbows) and my pants "sag" a little (because I have no waist). This makes it hard for me with my Milt Sparks IWB holster and Glock 19. You can't see it when I'm standing up, but if I lean down to get something (say I'm shopping) or kneel down to tie my shoe, you can see every square inch of the grip.

Sorry for rambling.... these are just some things to think about.
I have a Glock 19C that I bought new and have put about 2500-3000 rounds through. I didn't want a glock when I was searching for my first gun. I didn't like the way they felt in my hand (like holding a brick), but I'm glad I got it, and now I want another. I also have had a Ruger P95 which was kind of bulky and has a heavy trigger. I have a Springfield Mil-spec 1911 with a trigger job (3.5 lb) and it is a blast to shoot, very comfortable, but also fairly heavy (it sleeps beside my bed).

Another thing to ask yourself is.... how much bullet does it take to "stop" an attacker or intruder? Some people swear by a .45 acp and some people swear by a 9 mm. If it came down to it, I would go as far as saying that a .22 mag would probably do the trick also....

ok.... i'll stop already....

[ZuperZport]

i'm looking at getting my pistol permit (while i still can) and was wondering if anyone knew a good dealer in CT. i live in ridgefield and work in danbury, but of course i have no problems driving much farther.


Cos Cob Revolver & Rifle Club - Greenwich, CT - My pal is a member and took me shooting there a few weeks ago. Terrific people and very knowledgeable range masters. They can take you thru the entire licensing and training process as well as assist you with purchasing. Located right in downtown Greenwich, like 10 feet from the train station.
http://ccrrc.com/1/


Davis Sport - Sloatsburg, NY - Tremendous selection and good service. Got my Glock there. About 15 minutes north of the Tappan Zee Bridge off of I-87. Worth the trip.
http://www.davissport.com/

Best of luck!:1st:

[ArtosDracon]

If you are going concealed I have to recommend the Sig P232. I have one for carry in hot weather. There aren't many you can conceal in nothing but shorts and sandals(I'm in AZ after all) that can take care of anything more than a big rat. At .380Auto it's not on par with any of the full size calibers, but I consider it my comfortable minimum.

I carry Glock, Taurus, full sized Sigs and various 1911s regularly and while I like the simplicity and custom options of the 1911, when carrying all day the weight can get annoying. The polymer bodies of the Glock and Sigs are a welcomed alternative, and aftermarket parts for glocks are pretty prevalent. I have fired on several occasions a 2011, which is a double stack, custom 1911 frame and while the extra capacity and lightness of the billet aluminum is nice, it's way overpriced for a regular carry firearm.

As far as caliber goes, find what you're comfortable with. I generally carry.380 or 9mm, but have carried .40, .45, 5.7mm and 10mm and in an emergency situation, I'd rather have the rounds than that little extra thud. 5.7mm would be my daily in less than scorching weather, except ammo is so expensive, and they've gotten a bad reputation amongst the un-informed, but 21 rounds on tap, impact pressure similar to a 9mm buth with rifle grade hydrostatic shock, it's a pretty slick round, but the amount of money required to practice with it on a regular basis makes in un-reasonable for anything but a "hey looky what I got" gun.

[cheapthrillz]

These look to be pretty cool and innovative (and probably expensive)...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/taurus_poly_protector_02-1.jpg

[go-fish]

If we're talking revolvers, I really like the Airweight J-frame series from S&W. Super light and a revolver won't fail on you when you need it most. No stovepipes, mis-feeds, failures to eject.......

[Humbug53]

My carry weapon is a J-frame S&W, hammerless, .38spl. I usually open carry, and encourage more to do the same. My others are all "cowboy" guns, so those stay home untill I wanna play games/ blow some $#!+ up.

[megaladon6]

wow, this thread grew pretty quickly! thanks for all the advice.:smoke:
lets see if i can remember everything.
i guess money is first, while i'd love a kimber, sig, h&k, there's no way i can afford one. however i didn't realize that glocks were not in that price range so they're in the running.
size, well mine is 6ft3 190lbs, but i almost always wear a jacket that can conceal the weapon. i've got a medium/good sized hand. basically long thin fingers. i've fired a couple of different pistols (a few years ago) and am more comfortable with larger grips.
carry, tell you the truth, i don't NEED to carry most of the time. if ever, but only time can tell that! but there are some places around here where it's a damn good idea (waterbury for one). i mostly want it for fun and stress relief. and if i go hiking in the adirondacks or where ever, and meet mr. mountain lion or mr.bear... and i have found bear and mt lion tracks in southern NY/CT and surrounding areas.
which brings up a question. can i legally bring the pistol into NY, where i won't have a permit, to bring it hiking? or a gun range, shop, show, whatever? i assume it's ok if it's locked up in the trunk, but i'm not sure.
BTW, i'm not buying anything for a little bit. i'm going to get the permit, look around, hopefully test fire a bunch, and then decide.
i did look on the net for issues with the XD40. it looks like the first years had a slide lock issue (more of an improper grip issue actually), a jamming issue if you grip in a way that pushes up on the clip, and a feed/jam issue that's fixed by polishing the feed ramp (as stated earlier)
did i miss anything?:)

[megaladon6]

had a couple of questions
IIRC single action means you have to **** the hammer, but i've seen a few autos without an external hammer described as SA. am i just an idiot, or is the hammer always cocked, or what?
looking on a couple of forums i see these "FTF" and "FTE", is that failure to feed/eject?
how sensitive are glocks, springfields, or anyone else to ammo type? i'm seeing some complaints about glock, to the point of blowing up the guns?
also, do glocks still have internal only safeties? i seem to recall a few news stories about accidental discharges.
thanks again!
nick

[mc84_zz4]

I have a S&W Sigma (knock-off Glock) my friend has a Glock, ours did misfeed when new/dry, the round did not chamber well, and the slide was 1/2 closed 2 out of 3. We also had 2 rounds that were fired and did not shoot.
The pin hit the primer, but the pin mechanism was too dry/new to strike hard enough to fire.
some oiling took care of the misfires.
more oil took care of the misfeeds, polishing later made the misfeeds completely go away and made it really smooth. I also clean my magazines and lightly oil them inside.
No blowing up gun from these incidents.
The only safety the Glock has is the trigger, and the first chambering of a round.
I never carry mine with a round chambered unless I need to have one, and it comes out by the end of the day.
You have to pull about 10 lbs on the trigger to fire though, so it's kind of hard to accidentally do it. HTH

[go-fish]

autos without an external hammer described as SA. am i just an idiot, or is the hammer always cocked, or what?
looking on a couple of forums i see these "FTF" and "FTE", is that failure to feed/eject?
how sensitive are glocks, springfields, or anyone else to ammo type? i'm seeing some complaints about glock, to the point of blowing up the guns?
also, do glocks still have internal only safeties? i seem to recall a few news stories about accidental discharges.
thanks again!
nick

Autos without an external hammer are SA only autos. When you pull the trigger it pulls the hammer back, your first pull is going to be heavier than the next shots. The hammer is not always cocked.
Double actions have a hammer you can caulk (can't say coc k?) with your thumb and makes the first trigger pull much less. Typically, uncocked (using it as a SA) you could have around 14lbs of trigger pull and cocked, you could have 10 lbs or less (in DA mode). SA-only models most always have less trigger pull (8lbs) than that of an uncocked DA.

When you find a pistol you like, take a look at the specs if it is optional DA/SA and look at the differences in trigger pulls between the variants. If the trigger pull is light enough, sometimes I like the SA over the more popular double action. You can find some light azz SA triggers to the point of being too light almost, usually from the mfgr's custom shop though.

FTF/FTE, you're correct. Failure to feed and fire.

Never heard of any glocks or XD being sensitive to ammo. I always thought, Glocks moreso, would eat just about any ammo. Any time you here about a gun blowing up find out whether or not they were using reloads. 99/100 times it is reloads that aren't up to snuff or dangerous loads. Buy quality manufactured ammo.

There are alot of stories about Glocks having accidental discharges. Remember the DEA guy from Youtube that shot himself in a classrooom full of kids? The Oakland incident at the BART terminal that got a kid shot in the back by Oakland PD? Alot of cops have had "accidental" discharges, alot of civilians have had "accidental" discharges with Glocks. I like to refer to most of those as Negligent Discharges. Guns don't just "go" off. The point is to know your weapon and the characteristics. Let's say the gun was "bad". You're never supposed to point your weapon at anything you don't intend to kill right.

I am in no way a Glock fan, probably won't ever own one, but they are used by many agencies and as with any firearm the user needs to be compitent. The news loves stories about cops shooting people and the majority of PD pistols across the country are Glocks. Hell, there are absolutely no mechanical safeties on my personal Sig or any of the Sigs my unit uses, just your trigger finger and your brain, and I can't imagine where and when I would have an AD/ND. I'm not saying there aren't design flaws or occasional defects in some Glock models but It's usually not the gun's fault is all Im saying. There are alot of very happy Glock users.

[wmhjr]

Just some information for you to use or ignore...

I have a bunch of weapons, and shoot Bullseye semi competitively (meaning in competition but I'm not real serious). Here are some of my handguns at the moment....

Glock 23 in .40 S&W
Ballistar Molina in .45
Walther PPS in 9mm
Colt Series 70 Mk IV in .45
Smith and Wesson Model 41 in .22LR
Les Bauer Premier II w/ 1.5" package in .45

The S&W model 41 and the Les Baer are my Bullseye guns. They are both absolute tack drivers, with the Baer certified to 1.5" groups at 50 yds (test target included).

The Baer is an incredibly precision built gun. Period.

The Kimber is a nice gun, for a compact it shoots REAL accurate, and his a wonderful trigger. It is not the quality of the Baer - not even close - but it's a very nice gun.

The Glock is my least favorite gun to shoot. It's reliable and effective. It's also clunky, and the .40 to me is less comfortable than the .45 due to higher chamber pressures and velocity. In rapid fire, I find I'm back on target after each shot much faster with the Baer or the Colt than with the Kimber.

All of these are good, quality weapons. A lot depends on what you really want. I will say that of all of these, the Kimber is probably easiest to conceal due to the size and weight. The Walther is next, but is heavier. The Glock is kind of blocky and the rest are obviously larger framed.

My experience is that for personal defense, the .45 is REAL hard to beat. Lots of weapons have tried, and none have really shown much of an advantage in close range, low shot count situations - which is EXACTLY how personal defense weapons are used. If you really need a double stacked 15 round magazine, you've got problems that the pistol will not solve. Unless you're in Kandahar.

Single Action vs Double Action or Double Action Only is a personal choice. Personally, I don't really like the trigger feel of DA or DAO weapons and prefer SA. That's just me.

The XD is a good weapon. It's also a REAL large hunk of steel.

Just my 2 cents.

[wmhjr]

Oh, since I saw some other mentions of some things.....

You also really can't label an entire "brand" the same. Example?

Glocks and ammo types. Take the model 23. Early variants of the model 23 (which I have) have an "unsupported chamber" which makes it a little more picky about what ammo it likes to consume. Later versions changed the chamber design, which increased its willingness to tolerate different ammo.

I had a Smith & Wesson 569 a number of years ago, and personally experienced an accidental discharge that should never have happened. The loaded weapon on the seat next to me in a car (legally) returning from a range - another car pulled out in front of me, gun hit the floor - and fired. Very poor. But my model 41 is an excellent high quality (but not inexpensive - used ones can easily go for $800) pistol.

You have to look at not only the brand and caliber, but the specific weapon.

[wmhjr]

I can stop after I say that this administration has done nothing but increase gun owners rights,

Just my 2 cents. BS. Get your head out of the sand. I reload my own ammo for range use. Do a little research before you make that statement. This administration is trying to make it so us reloaders can no longer do so. Fact. And that's just one example.

OK, back on topic.

[cheapthrillz]

i have a s&w sigma (knock-off glock) my friend has a glock, ours did misfeed when new/dry, the round did not chamber well, and the slide was 1/2 closed 2 out of 3. We also had 2 rounds that were fired and did not shoot.
The pin hit the primer, but the pin mechanism was too dry/new to strike hard enough to fire.
Some oiling took care of the misfires.
More oil took care of the misfeeds, polishing later made the misfeeds completely go away and made it really smooth. I also clean my magazines and lightly oil them inside.
No blowing up gun from these incidents.
The only safety the glock has is the trigger, and the first chambering of a round.
I never carry mine with a round chambered unless i need to have one, and it comes out by the end of the day.
You have to pull about 10 lbs on the trigger to fire though, so it's kind of hard to accidentally do it. Hth

1) If you are carrying a weapon on your person, you should ALWAYS have a round chambered. How can you chamber a round if a mugger or whoever grabs one of your arms? You gonna bite the slide and chamber a round with your teeth?

2) I bought my glock brand new (gen III) and have never had a ftf or fte after more than 2000 rounds.

3) I have never heard of a glock having a 10 lb trigger. Mine is 5.5 lbs. I know that the sigma has about a 10 or 11 lb trigger. Is that the one you are talking about?

[toxicz28]

which brings up a question. can i legally bring the pistol into NY, where i won't have a permit, to bring it hiking?
No, you can't.


from http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm


Non-residents:
A non-resident citizen may possess a rifle or shotgun in New York, as long as it is unloaded while being transported. No person may carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. New York does not issue licenses to non-residents nor does it recognize licenses issued by other states. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. If a person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.) A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container. An alien may possess a rifle or shotgun for use while hunting provided he has a valid New York hunting license. "If such (handgun) license is issued to an alien, or to a person not a citizen of and usually a resident in the state, the licensing officer shall state in the license the particular reason for the issuance and the names of the persons certifying to the good character of the applicant." Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container.

[cheapthrillz]

I usually open carry, and encourage more to do the same.

In the state of SC you can not open carry a firearm..... you will go to jail.....

[megaladon6]

i re-searched the kaboom incidents with the glock. it looks like it is more of an ammo problem than anything else. condensing down, the articles said--glocks don't like lead ammo (i thought most pistol ammo was jacketed?) and don't like reloads due to the possibility of excess powder and brass fatigue (from excessive use). but it only seems to happen on the larger calibers, which really does make me wonder if they didn't beef up the frame for the larger calibers. BUT considering you guys have them with almost zero problems i'm not too worried.
oh, in CT it's concealed carry only.
thanks for the NY regs, that's what i thought. damn it! you'd think they'd at least offer a non-resident permit.
my friends husband may be selling his glock, i think it's a 21, i know it's a .45, about 10yrs old but rarely fired. if you had to guess, what would it be worth? she said $500, but i figure she got it wrong as i can buy a new one for that.
nick

[wmhjr]

SOME glocks don't like lead bullets. See my post mentioning the unsupported chambers. Unsupported meaning the design of the chamber does not fully support the casing the way a traditional pistol chamber does. Later glocks had a revised design. The frame has nothing to do with it. The unsupported chamber allows for more case expansion.

Lots of pistol ammo is not jacketed. I shoot almost strictly 200gr lead semi wadcutter ammo through my .45s.

[megaladon6]

sorry about that. i didn't mean to say that all glocks or even most had any problems. the fact that it was only the larger calibers did make me a little suspicious though.

how much of a difference does an extra in of barrel length make to accuracy? or anything else? i'm considering going with a compact for concealability, if it's large enough for my hand and doesn't lose any significant accuracy.

[SpicerMTR]

Smith & Wesson is good. They have an M&P series that tends to be on special at most gun shops couple times a year. Easy to clean and maintain. I have a 40 M&P and a 45acp Kimber UltraEclipse II. I love the Kimber, it is hard to breakdown to clean though. It is important though that the gun feels comfortable to you when you handle it.

[RatMalibu]

Glocks don't like lead because they have polygonal rifling...the polygonal rifling creates a better seal than normal land and groove rifling. When you shoot lead through any barrel you end up with lead residue on the barrels inner surface, lead build up in a polygonal barrel will eventually cause a restriction in the barrel and an over pressure situation in the chamber....the weakest link is the cartridge case which by the design of the Glock chamber is stretched out a bit by the base of the cartridge in the area of the feedramp (Glock smile) resulting in a blowout near the cartridge rim down into the magazine well....i.e. KaBoom

You see more .40 Glock KaBooms because of the pressures of the .40 cartridge and the size of the cartridge (.40 and 9mm both run about 35,000psi compared to 21,000psi for a .45) the feedramp on a .40 is larger than a 9 so you have more "unsupported" area to blow out from

some will tell you lead is fine in a Glock. I'll not tempt fate with mine. I do reload for my G23 but only use jacketed bullets

[Humbug53]

In the state of SC you can not open carry a firearm..... you will go to jail.....
Michigan (where I live) is an open carry state.

[69bigblock]

Tatical arms in torrington is good. There range is nice and you also do not have to buy there bullets in order to use there range. Hoffmans you do. You can not carry outside of the state. It was about $150.00 I think for the city fees and state.
Depending on your cityyou might need,
My city I had to have 2 letters from friends to valid date what a great person I am. Also I had to have an interview with the chief.. All citys are different..Once you been approved by your city then get you go to the state and get your license..
I have fired a glock and a sig. Man the sig I fired was so smooth..
I bought my wife a P22 walther which shoots very well at the range..

Bryan

[wmhjr]

some will tell you lead is fine in a Glock. I'll not tempt fate with mine. I do reload for my G23 but only use jacketed bullets

I agree about playing it safe, but you can simply maintain the barrel with lead remover also if you really want to. Midway has a variety of good solvents that are excellent with removing lead.

[MonzaRacer]

As for me I carry a P90 .45 acp Ruger, one 8 round clip and 2 stock 7s, This can be had for around $350 used or less and $450 new, install a Hogue grip and its a tack driver.
My next pistol purchase will either be an XD40m or XD45m the new .45acp version of the m compact models jsut got announced I think its awesome looking ,just waiting for local MC Sports to get one.
My second choice is a Taurus PT145 Millennium Pro .45acp or a PT140 .40S&W .
I like my .45 but when on my bike I really would like a smaller gun. so because of the shortage of .45acp I may pick up the PT140 or XD40 M compact since every place seems to have lots of .40S&W. and I can get it loaded hot if I want.
Nothing under a .40S&W EXCEPT maybe a .357 SIG as that one uses similar shell.
Now good thing about my Ruger is the ramp is baby but smooth, only jammed with bird shot and will lay the rounds anywhere I sight it.
Another thing to look for is a good tactical training course like a F.I.S.T course.
Also think about looking for tritium sights, and maybe a Lazergrips or CrimsonTrace laser.
I like the XD cause I could slide a tactical light on very easy, I believe even the Taurus had Picatinny rail.
Sig I agree way over priced, anything Kimber or Caspian also way to high.
Now my other possibility is a Taurus Judge in .410/.45. or even a Taurus lightweight in .357 mag or bigger.
Also Smith & Wesson have a few choices in affordable ranges too.
Good Luck and good shooting.

[ArtosDracon]

Michigan (where I live) is an open carry state.

AZ is an open carry state too, but you'd have to be a damn fool to open carry without a badge here.

[Tony_SS]

I would go to a range where you could rent a few and try them out. That's the only way you'll know you've bought the right gun for you.. everyone has their preference but it has to feel right in your hands. For me it was an XD40. Very smooth and accurate every time.

[go-fish]

For future reference people, it's a magazine that goes in a pistol. Some rifles do take clips but ifit has a spring and a follower it is a mag. Not trying to be an internet smarty pants but thought maybe some of you didn't know. I used to have a Gunny that would flip if you said "clip" or "fox hole". "It's a FIGHTING position, gawd dammut.", he'd say.

[wicked68]

that is a constitutional violation based on the washington dc outcome.


No, you can't.


from http://www.nysrpa.org/nygunlaws.htm


Non-residents:
A non-resident citizen may possess a rifle or shotgun in New York, as long as it is unloaded while being transported. No person may carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. New York does not issue licenses to non-residents nor does it recognize licenses issued by other states. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel. If a person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Necessary stops, e.g., gasoline and rest, seem permissible.) A member or coach of an accredited college or university target pistol team may transport a handgun into or through New York to participate in a collegiate, Olympic or target pistol shooting competition provided that the handgun is unloaded and carried in a locked carrying case and the ammunition is carried in a separate locked container. An alien may possess a rifle or shotgun for use while hunting provided he has a valid New York hunting license. "If such (handgun) license is issued to an alien, or to a person not a citizen of and usually a resident in the state, the licensing officer shall state in the license the particular reason for the issuance and the names of the persons certifying to the good character of the applicant." Non-resident target shooters may enter or pass through New York State with handguns for the purposes of any NRA approved competition if the competitor has in his possession a copy of the match program, proof of entry and a pistol license from his state of residence. The handgun must be unloaded and transported in a locked opaque container.

[wicked68]

In the state of SC you can not open carry a firearm..... you will go to jail.....


that is also a constitutional violation

[cheapthrillz]

that is also a constitutional violation


I know....... but I don't think we can get into that discussion on here....

I like to say, "I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6."

[ArtosDracon]

Wicked68, I tend to doubt that anyone here is going to argue with you on the fact that there are many laws on the books, especially when concerning our second amendment right, that are unconstitutional, Thomas Jefferson would simply be appalled at how a political climate based on appeasement has so thoroughly corrupted the ideals on which this country was founded. I find it incomprehensible that despite best intentions absolute power corrupts absolutely, and while we may not have a single person with that power, we do have a class, and beyond that an even smaller subclass that has the money, so they make the rules.

We should count ourselves lucky to have the appellate system inside our judicial system as structured as it is, because there are many countries that do not. It doesn't fix the abuses of power that we see on a daily basis, however, until we can remove politics from our government, it is a burden that must be shared by all, until it's weight becomes more than we as a country and culture can bear, at which point the inevitable change becomes a necessity.

[cheapthrillz]

........at which point the inevitable change becomes a necessity.

This is one of the reasons that people SHOULD have guns....

[Tony_SS]

For future reference people, it's a magazine that goes in a pistol. Some rifles do take clips but ifit has a spring and a follower it is a mag. Not trying to be an internet smarty pants but thought maybe some of you didn't know. I used to have a Gunny that would flip if you said "clip" or "fox hole". "It's a FIGHTING position, gawd dammut.", he'd say.

Kind of like when someone calls an engine a motor. lol

[toxicz28]

that is a constitutional violation based on the washington dc outcome.

Not saying it's right, just saying how it is.

[megaladon6]

why is it unconstitutional to prevent people from bringing a pistol into a state they don't have a license for?
you can't prevent them from transporting it through the state to another locale, that comes under free commerce i believe (not restricting travel between states). but if you don't have a license and want to use the weapon there...
stand corrected on mag vs. clip hey, i'm still learning.
talking to a friend of mine today, i think i've decided against the glock. not because of "kabooms" of lead issues, but i realized that i really don't like a gun with only 1 real safety, and it's a passive one. i understand that they are safe and the "accidental" discharges are negligence, but i just don't feel comfortable with it as a newbie. i haven't ruled out any other weapons, but i figure the XD45 has 2 safeties (3 if i want), plus the mechanical blocks, and it seems to have some really good reviews with very few negatives. and they seem to mostly be on the early models.
tony: ANY issues with the XD? dislikes certain ammo, jams, FTE/F's?

[RatMalibu]

just remember no matter what you choose to carry....#1 safety is keeping your booger hook off the bang switch....

[MonzaRacer]

OK first of all you only need one mechanical safety, and one biological, ie the "booger hook" thing.
My Ruger has a true mechanical safety that blocks the firing till its deactivated, it also decocks the gun when safety is on, it will still shoot one round with clip out.
I hate gund that wont fire with clip out. while working with IPD a fella comes in, thank God he was so trashed he couldnt get safety off of AK he had and only ONE of us had a gun(other than me, super red hawk 44 mag)that would fire in that area, as the few guys were swapping stories about guns, 3 autos and only one would fire with safety off and clip out. Captain dropped guy like a fall deer, I had Mag out and covered and all others seated clips. All in less than 5 seconds and Iwill never own a gun that safes with clip out.
Captain also had issue with them too, he was almost captured in Vietnam, he dropped his clip, then proceeded t odrop guy trying to capture him,,, he never said what he was carrying but I would say it wasnt regulation as he said gun both saved his life and got him wrote up!
Big trick is dont go too small on caliber, say .357 sig, 40 smith, 45 acp, 50 cal. and find cheap practice ammo, most like Wolf as its steel cases mostly and doesnt reload without trashing dies.
PP ammo look at silvertip hollow points, hydta-shoks, and federal has couple of new home defense/PP ammo.
also if you carry all the time, atleast 3 clips, period, one for use, one for foul clearing and one for family, I also keep box of hard ball in glove box, but check laws.
I carry for now in fobus tactical holster but I am looking for good leather, but have too many irons in fire right now.
Good shooting.

[ArtosDracon]

Kind of like when someone calls an engine a motor. lol

That one has always bugged the crap out of me.

[ProdigyCustoms]

For everyday carry, part of my morning, money, watch, wallet, phone, gun routine I have a Ruger LCP 380 in my pocket. Cannot even tell it is there. Added a laser and it is deadly accurate at 10 yards. They have a DA / DA trigger and it is fairly heavy. Comes out of my pocket pretty slick.

Obviously if I got involved in something heavy I would wish I had one of my bigger guns, but I cannot carry a full size all the time.

My favotrite full size in my collection to carry, like when I am carrying cars, is a Sig 239 40Cal. With nightsites and a laser, amazing accuracy, never ever jams, thin single stack clip, a little heavy but when I need it I can deal with it.

As for cost, I got my 239 at a Gun Show factory rebuilt for a deal, $350. Couple MINOR holster rubs but since I was going to carry it anyway it would have those wear marks day one. You can look for Sigs in red cases, those are factory rebuilts.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
LCP with laser

[wicked68]

why is it unconstitutional to prevent people from bringing a pistol into a state they don't have a license for?
you can't prevent them from transporting it through the state to another locale, that comes under free commerce i believe (not restricting travel between states). but if you don't have a license and want to use the weapon there...



I don't see anywhere in the constitution where it says you have the right to bear arms only when you have a license for it.

can you imagine if you had to get a license to speak your mind or a license to breathe?

Clearly it would be nice to have a rewrite of the amendment to make it clearer - and make it where it says you have a right to carry any weapon you like and it may be loaded and you may carry it anywhere you like on public areas as long as it is visible and you may carry it on private property where the owner does not prohibit it. Furthermore be it known that no law shall be made requiring an inventory or registration of firearms that is recorded for the purpose of identifying the numbers and types of guns owned by an individual and where they are stored.

I think this would be a much better constitutional right.

[Steve1968LS2]

For everyday carry, part of my morning, money, watch, wallet, phone, gun routine I have a Ruger LCP 380 in my pocket. Cannot even tell it is there. Added a laser and it is deadly accurate at 10 yards. They have a DA / DA trigger and it is fairly heavy. Comes out of my pocket pretty slick.

Obviously if I got involved in something heavy I would wish I had one of my bigger guns, but I cannot carry a full size all the time.

My favotrite full size in my collection to carry, like when I am carrying cars, is a Sig 239 40Cal. With nightsites and a laser, amazing accuracy, never ever jams, thin single stack clip, a little heavy but when I need it I can deal with it.

As for cost, I got my 239 at a Gun Show factory rebuilt for a deal, $350. Couple MINOR holster rubs but since I was going to carry it anyway it would have those wear marks day one. You can look for Sigs in red cases, those are factory rebuilts.

LCP with laser

I just bought the revolver version... the Ruger LCR. The weapon is crazy lightweight. Now I just need to live in a state the recongnizes the constitution. lol

I also have a Sig P6.. it's a euro police trade in. Great gun and I've completely rebuilt it and right now it's in getting Cerakoted. Would be a great carry piece since, like yours it has a single stack mag.

My new Ruger and it's Tupperwear brother the FN...
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/fbdr2c-1.jpg

[Tony_SS]

#1 safety is keeping your booger hook off the bang switch....
lmfao!

x2 on the LCP with a trace.. excellent carry gun. I would leave the .40 in the nightstand.

[megaladon6]

actually i've been taught the #1 safety is the brain. but yeah, control is more important than the weapon. but just in case, safeties are a good thing to have. i think i've decided against the optional manual safety though (if i get the XD). i figure 2 is enough (grip and trigger)
FWIW the XD will fire with the mag out, which i also think is a good thing. will i need it? hopefully not. but if crap happens and i need to reload in the middle...
sorry i actually have to agree with licensing and registration (to a point). i just wish it was more organized. licensing because we don't want crazy or stupid people carrying weapons. granted it would reduce the population of stupid people if they did carry. registration i'm ambivalent on. your car's a deadly weapon (or rather can be) and we register them. also, to make sure weapons are properly transferred to people who know how to use them. but it all needs to be kept basic of course. otherwise no one will have one legally.
i'd really love to see a federal permit available to the public.

[ArtosDracon]

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764

[megaladon6]

looks like i was wrong about CT law. you are allowed to open carry. but there's a line that "every effort must be made...to keep the weapon concealed...to avoid alarming the public"

[wicked68]

sorry i actually have to agree with licensing and registration (to a point). i just wish it was more organized. licensing because we don't want crazy or stupid people carrying weapons. granted it would reduce the population of stupid people if they did carry. registration i'm ambivalent on. your car's a deadly weapon (or rather can be) and we register them. also, to make sure weapons are properly transferred to people who know how to use them. but it all needs to be kept basic of course. otherwise no one will have one legally.
i'd really love to see a federal permit available to the public.

so you think licensing keeps crazy people from carrying guns?

you think all the wise guys in new jersey are properly licensed?

regsitration of firearms - do you think all the registered firearms keeps criminals from getting them? because they are all registered and recorded today yet people get them.

Maybe we should license drug users and register cocaine under this theory and it would cut down on illegal use? :D

licensing a car is only about collecting a tax and showing a prof of ownership if the car is stolen and recovered. It does not stop unlicensed people from driving them. happens every day.

I think if we would require eveyone to own a machine gun in their house - like the swiss do - we would have a lot less crime. required gun ownership is proven to reduce crime.

[megaladon6]

by your theory we should get rid of ALL laws/rules/regulations. because obviously we don't need them.
the problem is that we have laws that we don't enforce, at least not in a strict enough manner to make people realize that it's not worth it to break the law. we need to go back to a limited, basic, set of laws. and if someone breaks one, they get a severe punishment. we also need to make the jails what they used to be. cable TV is a little ridiculous.

Maybe we should license drug users and register cocaine under this theory and it would cut down on illegal use? :D
actually this DOES work in amsterdam. of course they also put limits on it's use and have severe penalties for misuse.
and the swiss do not require a gun in each home per se. they require all military members, inc reserves, to have one. but since they have compulsory service... it's the same with israel, but with a little more cause.

[wmhjr]

I think if we would require eveyone to own a machine gun in their house - like the swiss do - we would have a lot less crime. required gun ownership is proven to reduce crime.

Just a quick correction. You should probably not use the above statement to support not licensing guns.

The Swiss DO require licensing of guns, and the implications of possessing a gun without a license are even more strict than in the US. Beyond that, gun ownership is far more common and accepted in Switzerland and gun related crimes are relatively infrequent. The Swiss help with the argument that gun ownership should be protected, but not with the argument that gun licensing should be required.

[wicked68]

by your theory we should get rid of ALL laws/rules/regulations. because obviously we don't need them.
the problem is that we have laws that we don't enforce, at least not in a strict enough manner to make people realize that it's not worth it to break the law. we need to go back to a limited, basic, set of laws. and if someone breaks one, they get a severe punishment. we also need to make the jails what they used to be. cable TV is a little ridiculous.

actually this DOES work in amsterdam. of course they also put limits on it's use and have severe penalties for misuse.
and the swiss do not require a gun in each home per se. they require all military members, inc reserves, to have one. but since they have compulsory service... it's the same with israel, but with a little more cause.

I dont advocate getting rid of all laws - nor does my theory point to that - I do agree with you on a much smaller govt and set of laws and actually enforcing them.

I advocate laws that say you cant murder people or shoot out lights and shoot at your neighbors etc, just like I think speed limits and rules of the road are good - I certainly dont advocate outlawing cars because they are used to kill people. I also dont advocate no rules for the road.

kennessaw georgia requires gun ownership in every home and the crime rate went down after the law went into effect. If I was a criminal I would rather go to the next town over that had restrictive laws so I could increase my chances of not getting shot. Most of this is common sense which this country seems to have lost in the last 50 years.

[wicked68]

Just a quick correction. You should probably not use the above statement to support not licensing guns.

The Swiss DO require licensing of guns, and the implications of possessing a gun without a license are even more strict than in the US. Beyond that, gun ownership is far more common and accepted in Switzerland and gun related crimes are relatively infrequent. The Swiss help with the argument that gun ownership should be protected, but not with the argument that gun licensing should be required.

The Germans during nazi germany pre ww2 help with the not licensing guns argument. Jews were disarmed and then outlawed from owning guns before ww2 - we know what happened shortly thereafter.

[megaladon6]

should we then ban kindegarten and superhighways because the nazi's had them?
sorry, i just hate the arguement that if the germans did it it must be bad.

[Steve1968LS2]

should we then ban kindegarten and superhighways because the nazi's had them?
sorry, i just hate the arguement that if the germans did it it must be bad.

Your strawman argument is a bad analogy.. sorry.

The first step in any govt wanting to further control thier citizens is disarming them.

That's why our founders inserted the right to bear arms..

There should be some regulation.. I'm even ok with background checks, etc.. but every state should be a "right to carry" state and the "assault weapon" (stupid lable) ban should be done away with.

No explosives, grenades, nukes.. and a special license for full-auto weapons is fine. No citizen is in danger from a law abiding citizen having guns.. and the ones that arn't law abiding don't give a crap about the "feel good" laws that are passed by govt trying to cover up the fact that the judicial system is FUBAR'd.

[megaladon6]

if you reread it you should see that my previous post actually has nothing to do with licensing or registration or even weapons.
i just don't like the argument that just because the nazi's did it means it's bad. granted it was mostly bad, but not all.

There should be some regulation.. I'm even ok with background checks, etc.. but every state should be a "right to carry" state and the "assault weapon" (stupid lable) ban should be done away with.

No explosives, grenades, nukes.. and a special license for full-auto weapons is fine. No citizen is in danger from a law abiding citizen having guns.. and the ones that arn't law abiding don't give a crap about the "feel good" laws that are passed by govt trying to cover up the fact that the judicial system is FUBAR'd.
BTW, that's pretty much how i feel.

[wicked68]

if you reread it you should see that my previous post actually has nothing to do with licensing or registration or even weapons.
i just don't like the argument that just because the nazi's did it means it's bad. granted it was mostly bad, but not all.

BTW, that's pretty much how i feel.

I agree with you on the nazi statement. I do make a distinction between the nazis and germans. I could go into an entire nazi vs german discussion.

[Tony_SS]

I am against any and all licensing and/or registration of firearms for the fact that A. criminals of course wont abide by those rules and B. if for any reason a govt wants to collect firearms, they have yet another resource in which to facilitate that action. If you think it can't happen here, it already has, right after Katrina. Law abiding citizens got their firearms confiscating leaving only the police and criminals armed.

[Cdog]

It looks like this has been hashed over pretty well. I shoot over 5k rounds a year and reload. I'm a 1911 guy and shoot them over any other .45 for classes and fun. I have a AZ CCW and carry a XD 45. The ergonomics are very similar to a 1911 but with 13+1 of .45 goodness. You should be able to pick one up with the full kit for about $500 bucks.

Goodluck!

[Humbug53]

.45 goodness.
.45 Goodness. Awesome. lol

[megaladon6]

cdog or tony, how do you feel about the XD's trigger? i've headr a couple of complaint about excess pull and reset travel? is this a real issue, or just nitpicking?
anything you think needs improvement on the XD
BTW, to those who have suggested alternate weapons, i have listened. i've done some research on them, but i do keep coming back to the XD. not because of anything "wrong" with the others, for whatever reason i seem to be ambivalent on them. but thank you, and please keep the advice, comments, and everything else coming!!! :worship:

[wmhjr]

A lot depends on what you really want.

If you're shooting IDPA or IPSC matches, something like the XD or similar that is a double stack large caliber makes a lot of sense. For that type of shooting, large magazine capacity means something.

If you're not, then honestly a double stack (or frankly anything in excess of 7 rds) handgun is just extra weight and increased chances for a failure due to increased spring pressure in the mags causing longer term failures.

The percentage of defensive weapon firings that exceed 3 shots is - well - about zero. Maybe unless you live in a project somewhere and gang violence is a big problem.

The best triggers are without a doubt SA pistols - though they obviously have their disadvantages.

If you want to carry concealed large capacity heavy caliber pistols are pretty much a non-option.

The XD is a nice gun. It's bulky and heavier than heck, but it's reliable. If I really wanted a double stack IPSC or IDPA gun, I might consider it. For bullseye, it isn't accurate or consistent enough and the form factor is not right. To me, it's an answer looking for a question. That's just me. Like cdog, I'm a 45 guy, and I shoot probably a good bit more than 5000 rds a year and do all my own reloading. For a defensive carry weapon, my Kimber Ultra Elite is about perfect for me. If I need 15 rounds I have problems that will not be solved by the .45.

[Tony_SS]

Coming after a horrible S&W Sigma, the XD trigger is a dream!

[andrewb70]

I was just looking at the Kimber website....wow...

Andrew

[Cdog]

cdog or tony, how do you feel about the XD's trigger? i've headr a couple of complaint about excess pull and reset travel? is this a real issue, or just nitpicking?
anything you think needs improvement on the XD
BTW, to those who have suggested alternate weapons, i have listened. i've done some research on them, but i do keep coming back to the XD. not because of anything "wrong" with the others, for whatever reason i seem to be ambivalent on them. but thank you, and please keep the advice, comments, and everything else coming!!! :worship:

It's not bad. 45 in a light weight Tupperware gun is going to have some snap compared to a full rail operator. For what it is, it's the best all around choice for the money. I've read on AR15.com that Springfield is finally releasing a XDM in .45. The xdm will have a lighter trigger and better sights. I use mine as a carry gun knowing if I have to use it I'll never see it again.

The only other I like in 45 is the FN 45. 15+1. I scored and found one on a fire sale for $400. I use it to test my loads prior to my 1911's.

[cheapthrillz]

I'm looking at getting one of the new Ruger SR9 Compacts that just came out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/RugerSR9cCompactPistolbrushedstainless3-1.jpg

I wanted to buy the SR9 when it came out, because it was one of the most comfortable guns I had ever felt, but they had that recall, and then JC had no money.....

I'd like to see one of the new SR9c's.... I bet it would make a good CC gun.....

[wmhjr]

So a question for some of you guys.

Why do you look for high capacity pistols? What are you using them for that you even want 15 rounds in a mag? Serious question looking for an honest answer.

[Cdog]

So a question for some of you guys.

Why do you look for high capacity pistols? What are you using them for that you even want 15 rounds in a mag? Serious question looking for an honest answer.


Why not?

There are a lot of analogies.

My best answer to "why want 15 rounds in a mag". Because they don't make a 16 round mag.

[go-fish]

So a question for some of you guys.

Why do you look for high capacity pistols? What are you using them for that you even want 15 rounds in a mag? Serious question looking for an honest answer.


Fear, plane and simple. Fear that you run out of rounds and the threat is still a threat. Most don't know that a potential threat will likely subside before you even put a round down range, if it still exists then you will have to do work. If it takes more than 5 rounds to eliminate a threat then you are likely operating in too harsh an environment or just like hanging out in really mucked up places.

I really have a hard on for a S&W Airweight revolver. It's 5 rounds and it probably carries four more rounds than I'll ever need if I ever have to use it.

I am seeing a need for increased mag capacity for certain venues such as a student on a college campus. There are certain places where there is a threat of an attacker with a knife or ghetto blaster in a stick up situation. Increasingly there are places where you may be defending yourself and others from a person or group who has set out on a killing spree where the weapon on the other end is semi-auto rifles or multiple firearms.

I would want more than 5 rounds if I were going up against a Harris and Klebold. If I'm walking in the French Quarter, New Orleans I don't want the extra heft and a potential to witness a semi-auto pistol with a hi-cap mag.

[wmhjr]

Why not?



Because it's extra weight.
Because it makes for a more bulky grip.
Because it's harder to conceal.
Because it's more difficult to reliably handle 15 rds because it's tougher on the mag spring/springwell.
Because statistically there is about a zero percent chance that you'll ever fire more than 3 rds - much less 15 even if you have to use the weapon for protection.

I'm not criticizing. I'm really trying to understand. Like I said, for IPSC or IDPA shooting I get it. Single stack pistols have that as a disadvantage for that sport. For everything else?

Let me ask it this way....

Would you drive a 15 cylinder car if you couldn't use more than 8 cylinders to make the same power?
Would you put 10 seats in your car knowing that it'll have to be larger and you'll never haul more than 3 people?

go-fish kind of understands what I'm asking. Truth is, no matter the situation if you are not law enforcement and need more than a few rounds, you're going to jail. Beyond a few rounds, it's no longer a self-defense situation.

Beyond that, it's far easire to conceal a flat sided single stack and a spare mag than it is to conceal a more bulky double stack high cap pistol. That is, if concealment is important.

Again, don't get me wrong. Nothing against high cap pistols. I have a few. But in my case, the round capacity played zero influence on my decision to buy that particular handgun.

[Cdog]

Because it's extra weight.
Because it makes for a more bulky grip.
Because it's harder to conceal.
Because it's more difficult to reliably handle 15 rds because it's tougher on the mag spring/springwell.
Because statistically there is about a zero percent chance that you'll ever fire more than 3 rds - much less 15 even if you have to use the weapon for protection.

I'm not criticizing. I'm really trying to understand. Like I said, for IPSC or IDPA shooting I get it. Single stack pistols have that as a disadvantage for that sport. For everything else?

Let me ask it this way....

Would you drive a 15 cylinder car if you couldn't use more than 8 cylinders to make the same power?
Would you put 10 seats in your car knowing that it'll have to be larger and you'll never haul more than 3 people?

go-fish kind of understands what I'm asking. Truth is, no matter the situation if you are not law enforcement and need more than a few rounds, you're going to jail. Beyond a few rounds, it's no longer a self-defense situation.

Beyond that, it's far easire to conceal a flat sided single stack and a spare mag than it is to conceal a more bulky double stack high cap pistol. That is, if concealment is important.

Again, don't get me wrong. Nothing against high cap pistols. I have a few. But in my case, the round capacity played zero influence on my decision to buy that particular handgun.

I've got big hands. :rotfl:

We can go round and round on this and still not agree. Capacity is just that. It's there if you choose to use it. If weight is an issue, only load in a mag what you think you'll need. Perhaps here in AZ it's different. I can drive out to the desert to go riding or shooting and run across 4 guy's with an AK, AR, mac or what ever their hearts desire. Including suppressed and full auto.

Carry and buy what's comfortable. It's a tool. Use the right tool for the job.

I'd love to be the first guy with a Ferrari V12 in a 67 Camaro.:idea:

[wmhjr]

I'd love to be the first guy with a Ferrari V12 in a 67 Camaro.:idea:

Now THAT we can agree on!

[megaladon6]

It's bulky and heavier than heck

45 in a light weight Tupperware gun
ummm, ok i'm a little confused here. is it a light or heavy weapon? i'd think it's light with a poly frame. or is it just a relative thing. it's lighter than a colt 1911 but lighter than a beretta?
as to double vs single stack, it'll mostly depend on how well it fits my hand. i have a longer one so the larger grip may be good. i'm not too concerned about capacity, but hey, the more the merrier.:machine: besides, i never met someone who only carries the mag in the gun and no reloads.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I was just looking at the Kimber website....wow...
Andrew

My baby. Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II comes with laser grips, AWESOME. I hate to admit I don't even carry it or shoot it much for fear it will not be so pretty anymore!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ProdigyCustoms]

Trying to get back to guns and away from gun law.

Both these are 2 bulky to carry, but are our favorite shooting guns.

We take a lot of freinds shooting. My HK 45 is the one everyone wants to shoot and does the best with. Most balanced gun I have, even with 230GR hollow points (not for target practice) has less recoil then my Sig 40. Lisa shoots this gun incredibly well.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

And Lisa's HK P30 is a super nice piece. The "spiddy" grips are adjustable and have 3 side grips and 2 back straps which make it able to fit anyones hand simply perfect. I am going to get her the long version (P30L) for target shooting, she is really very good. better then me but don;t tell her I said so!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Cdog]

ummm, ok i'm a little confused here. is it a light or heavy weapon? i'd think it's light with a poly frame. or is it just a relative thing. it's lighter than a colt 1911 but lighter than a beretta?
as to double vs single stack, it'll mostly depend on how well it fits my hand. i have a longer one so the larger grip may be good. i'm not too concerned about capacity, but hey, the more the merrier.:machine: besides, i never met someone who only carries the mag in the gun and no reloads.



The gun is lighter than a full size 1911. I don't know what it weights with 13+1 of .45 in it. The xd has a cool feature where you can get a shorter grip version that holds 10 rounds. Then use a grip extension with the 13 rd mag.

Go to a range, rent one and see what you think.

[nicks67camaro]

I have experience with the following

Walther PPS in 40
Colt 1911 5" goverment model w/ essex frame (45 of course)
Astra A-100 17rd hi cap mag (9mm)
Ketec p-11 9mm
Ruger Mark 1 .22cal

I used to carry the Astra in the winter (larger frame easy to conceal with winter clothing). The the P-11 in the summer (small lighter frame). I just purchases recently the PPS and carry that exclusively now. It has the full size feel (I have big hands) but is slim and VERY EASY to carry.

They are all very different weapons. The A-100 is a single/double action the P-11 is double action only, and the PPS is single with the trigger style of a glock. I am comfortable shooting and concealing ever weapon I own. I take them all to the range and found that I like the 1911 and Mark 1 the most but never carry them.

If you intend to conceal carry find something that you like, and you are comfortable with. Take a few weeks and check out every model you have an interest in.

FWIW I only carry ~10 rounds in the A-100 since it gets heavy.

Happy shopping

[RatMalibu]

why would I want to carry high capacity pistol ......?

personally I've never had a gun pointed at me but I have been in a few fights and a few car accidents and I understand the way the body reacts to stress. I know that it's not a daily occurrence that these things happen to the average Joe like me, they do however happen to a police officer on a fairly regular basis I assume. If you do a little internet research you can find Police shot to hit accuracy ratios anywhere from 17% to 40% these are guys and gals that are trained in this stuff and they don't manage to connect with every bullet that leaves a gun.

Another way to think about it. you have your 5 shot airweight and are picking out a soda in the c-store and bad guy waks in with his jennings and 13 rounds of 9mm to rob the place and get rid of any witnesses. Now you might be Vasily Zaitsev reincarnate with that revolver but you are still at a disadvantage round wise. Without a spine or headshot a human being can put a lot of hurt on you with those extra 8 rounds in the time it takes them to bleed out (in the event you managed to hit something major with 17 to 40% of those 5 bullets).... I prefer my 13+1 with an extra 13 (at least) just in case...

and I think my Glock 23 is actually lighter than my Ruger .22 pistol lol

everyone carries what they are comfortable with.... I prefer a semi over a revolver and if I had to carry something with a 7-8 shot capacity I'd have to wear cargo pants to hold my extra mags lol

edited to add:

Truth is, no matter the situation if you are not law enforcement and need more than a few rounds, you're going to jail. Beyond a few rounds, it's no longer a self-defense situation.


If and when the time ever comes that I have to shoot someone or something I will do what I've been told and trained (even the CC instructors here) and shoot to stop the threat. If that takes one shot fine, if it takes 13 just as fine. If I believe I'm justified in shooting the thought of a legal battle bothers me less than the thought of my kids with no father.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I feel like if I get in a situation that 7 won't handle, I am probably ****ed anyway! Chances of staying covered and getting 15 off in a shoot out and not getting hit are pretty damn slim.

[sniper]

love my XD9. Great all around pistol.

If you want sex in the hand, and not have a custom built pistol, Kimber is unbelievable. Just go shoo tone, you probably won't buy anything else if you only want one gun.

But I enjoy shooting lots of variety and thankfully I have a few friends that are gun nutz. So I get to play with them all, one has over a hundred. mostly rifles bvut fun none the less.

[wicked68]

I'm looking at getting one of the new Ruger SR9 Compacts that just came out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/RugerSR9cCompactPistolbrushedstainless3-1.jpg

I wanted to buy the SR9 when it came out, because it was one of the most comfortable guns I had ever felt, but they had that recall, and then JC had no money.....

I'd like to see one of the new SR9c's.... I bet it would make a good CC gun.....


go all black on your gun - silver is too shiny at night when you dont want to be seen

[wicked68]

it helps to have a lot of lead when shooting gangsta style - sideways and throwin da lead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEProRFdO6U&feature=related

just go for dual desert eagle .50's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9q4zv2QGdos&NR=1

you wont have to hit anyone you will scare them to death

or if you really need protection there are always dual saws
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4nfZu8VqgQ&feature=related

now if you just want to be a recreational social shooter then take some people with you to go shooting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpFDHO-tqUY&feature=related

[ArtosDracon]

In a recent SD class I was quoted the statistic that the average Police officer in a shooting only lands 1 out of 6 rounds when firing beyond 20 feet. Inside 20 feet it would take an assailant less than 3 seconds to be within arms reach of you, making your firearm as much a liability as anything else. I think I'll take the extra rounds, just in case.

[RatMalibu]

btw wmhjr.....your Kimber with 7 rounds weighs 4 ounces more than my G23 with 13 rounds....and they are almost identical height and length wise

[ProdigyCustoms]

You big clip guys have me convinced. I will get a holster made for this one

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[go-fish]

Oooohhh! Vltor upper on top of what, a Noveske Rifle Works lower reciever?
I have a 6.5 Grendel upper on order. 19" Shilen barrel, billet upper with a side chrging handle, composite forward stock. Can't wait.

An SBR is definately in my future.

[cheapthrillz]

go all black on your gun - silver is too shiny at night when you dont want to be seen

I just grabbed the first picture that popped up in google.... Yes, I would get a black one

[wmhjr]

why would I want to carry high capacity pistol ......?

personally I've never had a gun pointed at me but I have been in a few fights and a few car accidents and I understand the way the body reacts to stress. I know that it's not a daily occurrence that these things happen to the average Joe like me, they do however happen to a police officer on a fairly regular basis I assume. If you do a little internet research you can find Police shot to hit accuracy ratios anywhere from 17% to 40% these are guys and gals that are trained in this stuff and they don't manage to connect with every bullet that leaves a gun.

Another way to think about it. you have your 5 shot airweight and are picking out a soda in the c-store and bad guy waks in with his jennings and 13 rounds of 9mm to rob the place and get rid of any witnesses. Now you might be Vasily Zaitsev reincarnate with that revolver but you are still at a disadvantage round wise. Without a spine or headshot a human being can put a lot of hurt on you with those extra 8 rounds in the time it takes them to bleed out (in the event you managed to hit something major with 17 to 40% of those 5 bullets).... I prefer my 13+1 with an extra 13 (at least) just in case...

and I think my Glock 23 is actually lighter than my Ruger .22 pistol lol

everyone carries what they are comfortable with.... I prefer a semi over a revolver and if I had to carry something with a 7-8 shot capacity I'd have to wear cargo pants to hold my extra mags lol

edited to add:


If and when the time ever comes that I have to shoot someone or something I will do what I've been told and trained (even the CC instructors here) and shoot to stop the threat. If that takes one shot fine, if it takes 13 just as fine. If I believe I'm justified in shooting the thought of a legal battle bothers me less than the thought of my kids with no father.


Sorry - I just disagree with your position. No problem - we can disagree. But facts and statistics are fully and strongly against you. The number of incidents where guns are discharged and more than 3 rounds are fired is (excluding law enforcement) about zero. Every single study shows that if you fire at all, you are likely to fire two rounds or less. I have had guns pointed at me - and fired. Remember my first career. If you're not military in a combat situation or law enforcement (even even mostly then it still applies) if you're firing 13 rounds, you're wrong. Factually, if you're firing 13 rounds, you're likely putting somebody innocent at risk at that point more than you are in defending your life. Just my opinion - supported by evidence, but my opinion nonetheless.

BTW: I have a Glock 23. It is heavier than my Kimber Ultra Elite by a LONG shot. And frankly far less accurate.

We all have our own opinions. None of us are Wyatt Earp. I think lots of people do have very misguided perceptions about what situations you'll use the pistol in. Think about this - that smaller, smoother Ultra Elite can be drawn and put on target FAR faster than the far more bulky XD.

And ask yourselves why special ops don't use huge behemoth weapons.....

[ArtosDracon]

You big clip guys have me convinced. I will get a holster made for this one

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

It definitely exceeds my requirements for both capacity, power and intimidation factor, though I think it might be a bit difficult to conceal. For similar capacity, and pricetag you should look at the FN fiveseven, 20+1, .223 caliber bullets and custom rounds over 2000fps out of a pretty standard full size frame.

/end sarcasm

[cheapthrillz]

It definitely exceeds my requirements for both capacity, power and intimidation factor, though I think it might be a bit difficult to conceal. For similar capacity, and pricetag you should look at the FN fiveseven, 20+1, .223 caliber bullets and custom rounds over 2000fps out of a pretty standard full size frame.

/end sarcasm

I've seen a guy conceal an AK-101 (w/ folding stock) in a tennis racket bag....... He also had 9 other guns on him at the time...... I couldn't tell he was carring a single one of them. He had a S&W 500 mag 6 inch barrel in his pocket. He was a pretty damn good cc instructor lol.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Oooohhh! Vltor upper on top of what, a Noveske Rifle Works lower reciever?
I have a 6.5 Grendel upper on order. 19" Shilen barrel, billet upper with a side chrging handle, composite forward stock. Can't wait.

An SBR is definately in my future.


That is one I am building, I was collecting some parts and stalled a bit. Building it with the best of the best parts. I already got the POF lower and 4LB Skelton Timney trigger. I just need to bite the bullet and get the PWS Diablo upper $$$$$$. I am going to set it up to shot 22 for fun and the big boys for serious business.

[go-fish]

POF will probably be getting my money when I do pull the trigger on the SBR buy/build. Something about piston guns and that sweet self lube finish.
In fact it was either the 6.5 build or a POF, the 6.5 comes first though.

We need a weapons section. Gun threads always turn into 10 page + threads.

[jy211]

Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry II comes with laser grips, AWESOME.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

LOL, I am trying to find this gun for my dad. No one down here has it! He's headed up to Dora this weekend, and I gave him a list of local dealers to check with..

Here's a little K23 toy I have with a beta mag...Love it being classed as a pistol! I wonder who could make a holster for me :1st:

[ProdigyCustoms]

LOL, I am trying to find this gun for my dad. No one down here has it! He's headed up to Dora this weekend, and I gave him a list of local dealers to check with..

Here's a little K23 toy I have with a beta mag...Love it being classed as a pistol! I wonder who could make a holster for me :1st:

Gunbroker.com

I could not find it anywhere local. Tough one to find

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=168061944

[Cdog]

Something tells me we'd all get along well.:) :machine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Cdog]

Gunbroker.com

I could not find it anywhere local. Tough one to find

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=168061944



Hey Frank. I had a Kimber Raptor with the 3.5 inch barrel for a while. Unfortunately I learned after spending $1200 on it I was a full size 1911 guy. If you have larger hands or sausage fingers you'll tend to bump the slide stop while the action is cycling. I traded mine in for a Desert Warrior. I did a Magpul handgun class with the DW and was very happy with it.

[wmhjr]

FWIW, I'm not a small guy at all and have no issues whatsoever with my Kimber Ultra Elite, which is a similar sized 3" barrel weapon. BTW, I thought the Raptor was also a 3" rather than a 3.5"?

Without a mag extension the bottom of your hand is exposed, but it presents no usability issues at all. Very manageable and very accurate. I was actually pleasantly surprised at the accuracy. It easily shoots as well as my factory Series 7 Mk 4. 3" groups at 25yds are no problem whateover.

[PT Sportwagon]

Just remember that paper is always in season and with no limit.

Tim

[ProdigyCustoms]

Hey Frank. I had a Kimber Raptor with the 3.5 inch barrel for a while. Unfortunately I learned after spending $1200 on it I was a full size 1911 guy. If you have larger hands or sausage fingers you'll tend to bump the slide stop while the action is cycling. I traded mine in for a Desert Warrior. I did a Magpul handgun class with the DW and was very happy with it.

Yes, we would get along just fine.

I bought it to carry, but I have my Sig 239 to carry I already love, so I just look at the Kimber, LOL!

I really like my HK45 or even my HK P30 more then a 1911, I just love the way they feel in my hand. But I need more guns so there will be a full size 1911 in the next few purchases.

[go-fish]

Yes, we would get along just fine.

I bought it to carry, but I have my Sig 239 to carry I already love, so I just look at the Kimber, LOL!

I really like my HK45 or even my HK P30 more then a 1911, I just love the way they feel in my hand. But I need more guns so there will be a full size 1911 in the next few purchases.


http://www.lesbaer.com/

???? :smoke:

[wmhjr]

http://www.lesbaer.com/Premier5.html

That one with the 1.5" guarantee is my most recent purchase. It is dead nuts accurate.

[ArtosDracon]

I like how Les Baers arms are almost always understated and clean in their appearance, unlike many other custom 1911 makers who insist on nickel plating everything and putting blue grips on them.

What distance is that 1.5" at? And with what ammo?

[wmhjr]

I like how Les Baers arms are almost always understated and clean in their appearance, unlike many other custom 1911 makers who insist on nickel plating everything and putting blue grips on them.

What distance is that 1.5" at? And with what ammo?

The 1.5" group is at 50 yards. It's done with 200gr LSWC. Don't know exactly what powder/load Les uses for the test. The pistol comes with a test board of the 50yrd test.

Les tells you to put about 500 rounds through it before you even try to field strip it. The barrel bushings are REAL tightly fit, and the barrel lockup at full battery is incredibly tight.

The PII is the best built, most attention to detail pistol I've ever owned. Simply blows away Kimber, Colt, Sig, anything else. You'd need to buy a custom Ed Brown or something similar to compare.

[ArtosDracon]

Cool, thanks. I've been looking into re-building my grandfathers WW2 1911 and all the information I can get is appreciated.

[sniper]

Something tells me we'd all get along well.:) :machine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


Heels down.

Boy does that bring up some memories. Instructors would walk by and stand on anyone's heels that were not flat to the ground. Fun stuff.

[Cdog]

Heels down.

Boy does that bring up some memories. Instructors would walk by and stand on anyone's heels that were not flat to the ground. Fun stuff.


I was half way there. That damn 30 cal can was full of .45.:machine:


Anytime you CA guy's escape the PRK and want to go shooting out here in AZ look me up.

[wicked68]

You big clip guys have me convinced. I will get a holster made for this one

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


way cool gun frank!

[wicked68]

Something tells me we'd all get along well.:) :machine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


WOW! incredible collection :D

[megaladon6]

so, now i've finally taken the pistol permit course--god was that a waste of time!!
so now all i have to do is go to the police station with the application right? there they'll fingerprint, start the background check, and take my money right?

[clu269]

I would go with a 40 cal. Best of both worlds. Size and speed. I carry a 40 or 9MM as I can find the sights faster than a 45 cal. Although it come down to what you are comfortable with.

[showa]

I carry a Glock Model 23 for work and to the store, church, mowing the lawn, the bathroom, etc. (Am I paranoid? Oh, and never forget your knife too).. My kids are so used to it they don't even "see" me carry a gun... 25 years in plain clothes and undercover work means plenty of people know "me" not my uniform... I wear loose fitting clothing (mostly shorts and T-shirts) to help conceal my weapon....
I believe you should carry a gun you are very comfortable with and practice with...
It doesn't matter so much about the calibre as shot placement... I've seen almost as many people killed with a 22 as a 45....
Practice drawing from your street clothes and please don't ever use an ankle holster. Don't even buy one...
And always try your best to not be in a position to have to use your gun. But, never be caught in a position where you need one and don't have it.....
Have fun with what ever guns you buy and be safe...(and get a Saiga 12 for home defense)

[megaladon6]

(Am I paranoid? Oh, and never forget your knife too)
"Even a paranoid has enemies" and me NOT go out with a knife? yeah, that'll happen! hell it's usually 2, one multi piece pocket (ww2 camillus) and usually my cold steel tanto folder.

[wmhjr]

. I carry a 40 or 9MM as I can find the sights faster than a 45 cal.

What do you mean by this? :hmm:

If you're talking initial sight picture, I don't get it. If you're talking about 2nd round, my experience is far different. The .40 to me is the worst of the bunch in terms of staying on target. Chamber pressure causes recoil to be more "whipping" than with the .45. The 9mm is a short bark, the .45 very controllable.

But like you said, it's all personal preference. My Glock 23 is my least favorite handgun. It's good enough that I keep it (I've had it for 20 yrs) but I rarely shoot it or carry it.