single stage VS. base coat clear coat

[g9901920]

Hey, I have a 1971 Roadrunner, and my bodyshop is offering a single stage paint job for $3000, or a base coat clear coat for $5000.

Both include:
Under hood, trunk, door jams, full body job.

Is the base coat clear coat worth the extra 2k?

Which would yall choose?
Thanks.

[tooblue]

What is the color you are going with? Is it a Metallic / Mica type of paint? Also did he give you the brand of material that he will be using? I am assuming it is a catalyzed type of paint?

[g9901920]

The color is go green. Ill have to ask about the brand.
He also mentioned a self etching primer.

[LSx_88_Ciera]

2K difference is a bit crazy IMO it doesn't add that much more work. Him mentioning etching primer makes me a bit leery cause it isn't a big deal and is only needed if you don't prep the metal properly in the first place. When self etching primer came out it was just a shortcut for shops primarily doing collision work that didn't want to sand new panels.
My instinct would be to RUN, causing he is throwing in terms that he figures you know nothing about.
Find a shop that uses a corrosion inhibitor on bare metal with epoxy primer over that.

[67 ls1 vert]

think of it this way... the car has to be prepared the same way either way and masked, wiped and sprayed. Why should it cost an extra $2000 for clear? That's Really expensive clear if you ask me. Maybe an extra hour to spray three coats with 10 to 15 Min's flash times between.

Check with lots of paint shops before you settle with one. You find one that you like more even if he cost more.

[g9901920]

The shop is rucker performace, they do really nice work.
I'm not too worried about the quality,
Although i will still ask about the paint.
I'm sure i didn't understand what was being said to me, as i do not know much about paint.

But still the question is:

Do i go with single stage paint, or base coat clear, if the price remains a 2k margin?

[justasquid]

If its metallic or a pearl, clear is a must. I"m not sure what go green is.

Most solid colors look just fine in a single stage. However, Clear tends to last longer, hold its shine longer, and require less maintanance. I'm not sure about clear having more depth, as I've seen some amazing depth in single stage paints. The deepest looking paint I've ever seen was a single stage black. Of course, Im a bit partial as I'm painting my camaro black. So I've done a lot of searching black paints.

if it were me and the color is a solid color, and the car is going to be stored inside, I'd use the single stage. if its going to be sitting outside a lot and seeing abuse, I'd get the clear.

I really can't fathom why its 2 grand more for clear either.

Also, what kind of warranty is he offering on the paints? is the clear warrantied longer than the single stage?

[rusty428cj]

If they are wet sanding and buffing the clear and not the single stage that would add a lot to the cost.

[Happyfunballs]

+1 Cut and buff? Second application of clear? You need to find out why the extreme cost difference. I suppose the cost diffence between single and bc/cc could be $2k depending on the brand. But it's a streach.

[PRRC]

I will just put my 2 cents worth in. First thing that comes to mind is the price it self, I would find out what your getting for 5000.00 A scuff and shoot? What brand of material they are using. And as mentioned before cut and buff. I know for our shop we will spend about 60 hours in wet sanding and buffing a car. Thats 3300.00 in labor just for that process.
Single stage will show signs of wear/fade much quicker than B/C
Also single stage is much harder to blend if a panel ever needs repaired down the road.
A good paint job is all in the prep. Thats were all the labor is. Painting is the easy part.
Another thing that I see as a red flag is the under hood paint. Is the motor and trans out of the car? If not it needs to be.There is no good way to paint around the drive train and get good coverage.
Just my thoughts.
Tim

[yodas little brother]

I will just put my 2 cents worth in. First thing that comes to mind is the price it self, I would find out what your getting for 5000.00 A scuff and shoot? What brand of material they are using. And as mentioned before cut and buff. I know for our shop we will spend about 60 hours in wet sanding and buffing a car. Thats 3300.00 in labor just for that process.
Single stage will show signs of wear/fade much quicker than B/C
Also single stage is much harder to blend if a panel ever needs repaired down the road.
A good paint job is all in the prep. Thats were all the labor is. Painting is the easy part.
Another thing that I see as a red flag is the under hood paint. Is the motor and trans out of the car? If not it needs to be.There is no good way to paint around the drive train and get good coverage.
Just my thoughts.
Tim
not trying to be an ass but what do you do that takes 60hours of wet sand and buff time?you can pm if you want or ignore me thanks either way.2k is a big difference id look around more

[jy211]

Which would yall choose?
Thanks.

What's the main purpose of the car going to be? Show car? Track car? Street driver?

[PRRC]

Well, We cut all the panels starting with 1000 grit paper, including door jambs. from there it's on to 1500 then 2000. From there all the panels shoud look dull and life less. no scratches just nice and dull. Now the buffing starts. We use foam pads for all our buffing. A white pad is for starters. A small pad on a hand held mini buffer for around all the drip rails jambs, pretty much any where a large pad can get into or runs the risk of taking off an edge. Clean the car to remove all the first cut compound, Now it's time to change pads. Grey foam. The whole process starts all over again. When your finished with that. Just one more trip around the car with a blue pad. Pretty much a 60 hour job. Maybe we are just to picky?
not trying to be an ass but what do you do that takes 60hours of wet sand and buff time?you can pm if you want or ignore me thanks either way.2k is a big difference id look around more

[g9901920]

I talked with the shop today.. Both paint jobs are to bare metal then rust inhibitor.
Single stage= 1 coat then curing, and very little buffing.
Base coat clear= 1 coat then 4 layers of clear, with a full cut, buff, and wet sand.

There's the extra labor, and therefore cost.

So most likely I'm doing the base/clear.

[LS1NOVA]

Id think you will want more than one coat basecoat unless they are really good.

[rusty428cj]

I always spray 3 coats of base. There is no way you can get full coverage with 1 coat.

[Happyfunballs]

As long as that one coat of base fully covers the car, you don't need anymore than that. The clear does all the "work".

[200horse]

like to see a base that covers in one coat heck waterbase can not even cover in one coat.

[rrstroker71]

Wow , we also take about 60 hours to wetsand and buff. 1000 to 3000 grit. we put 3 coats of base on and 6 coats of clear [ BASF Glasurit]. we start at 10 k and go up from there. You get what you pay for!

[elitecustombody]

I agree with Tim, it takes alot of work to slick out a full car, sometimes even longer than 60 hours, and as the saying goes : "you get what you pay for" ,

There should be around $600-1000 difference between base/clear and single stage job with same gloss/finish, because it takes few hours longer and more materials to do base/clear.

Stefan

[BRIAN]

I do not think your shop is telling you that the 2 jobs are equal in quality. What they are doing is giving you the option between a show type paint job and an OEM style quality job. They appear to be prepping the car the same but the difference is in the finish work. The single stage will be left with a OEM style orange peel and lightly buffed to remove imperfections. The 2 stage would be color sanded and polished. I do not see why anybody would think the difference in money is out of line as it appears fair depending on quality.

If the shop was cutting and buffing single stage it would most likely be the same amount as there is addtl coats and the buff work. As for the 60 hrs that is about right. You do not want to ruin a paint job that you spent months preparing by one quick go over by holding the paper in your hand and then rough cutting and glazing. It takes multiple passes of every nook and cranny. Then there are edges and blocking straight surfaces. There is the taping off and cleaning up of the compound and wet sand crap.


Driver that you aren't picky about go with 1 stage.

[MonzaRacer]

Dont forget it also depends on what they charge per hour.
And another is if its a smaller shop, but has good rep and can give you plenty of references that go back AT LEAST 2years, and you like their work, then price is the issue.
also if a guy is good but getting started he isnt going to charge $50-$60 an hour for finish like PRRC said, if he is good and trying to get work he may be doing $10k of work for less to get jobs and reputation.
PRRC work is firgured at $55@hour x 60=$3300 so figure $27.50! hour x 60= $1650.
So now, lot od research and inspection of their old jobs will tell you how good they are.
Also as for the multiple cuts in sanding like PRRC ,maybe eliminated to reduce cost. Honestly for a daily or fun driver with good finish on outside simple detail on jams and under body/hood/etc. the extensive detail in more hidden areas can reduce cost.
IF you are blowing car apart for major paint and body, and intend to keep it pristine and NEVER get chips,dirt,grime on it then spend more.
Dont get me wrong, it DEPENDS ON YOUR LEVEL OF FINISH.
I used to detail my cars by making all interiors black and moving interior color to jams,underhood,under body. show quality,,,, difference of opinion.
I can tell you this is way they used to do it a long time ago, then other painters started doing all areas not undercoated or upholstered gets detailed.
And that detail costs.
Now I could at one time show you some 80s paint jobs, that are single stage with a clear over top, medium detail in the jams/underhood/underbody area and these cars get driven, nicked,scratched, etc.
I did a couple and after a proper scuff and shoot in the jams, tacked coat of single with high solids clear on jams,etc. and these still shine like the day we painted them, the outsides are showing some wear but are holding up, and will detail out with perfect-it kit in short order(ask me how I know as I retouched a friends car we did this way, man I for got how much work it is to scuff and buff and detail) but paint technology HAS also came up a lot in last 20 yrs sooo different preps after paint are either needed or not.
I have laid down several paint jobs on say replacement hoods for friends and had good luck and honestly with small jobs as such laying a smooth finish for me as I never learned to "match" factory paint is much easier.
I fixed up a 90 Grand Am many years ago and if I hadnt tack ragged it after the primer it would have laid down perfect enough to not need much more than a quick buff. BUT primer laid down with "trash" and when I had to tack rag the primer(painting outside)it got stray fibers in it and took more work to finish up. But I got a whole lot of compliments on that repair paint job, especially since it was red metallic.

[Riderz Cycle]

I will have to agree with most of everything said here...I will say tough to believe you'll cover in one coat with single stage...I usually spray tree coats of single stage and the last coat I cut it 50% with clear and get great depth and the protection that I want from a two stage paint job. For people that have never wetsanded and buffed a car try it . 60 hrs is a good team of folks. you could easily spend a few hrs on each panel for each cut. then have to buff it at least three steps. If cost is an issue see if he will cut the last coat with clear and you'll get the protection you want with minimal cost added. Plus if you want to wet sand and buff it you can, sounds like the cost difference is in the post paint labor (cut and Buff)