Introducing Project Unfair, The fastest All Around Pro Touring Car On The Planet!

[cheapthrillz]

Going to be following this one... just disappointed it isn't going to be Way II Much. Still should be good, though :1st:

Haha! Nice

[ArtosDracon]

I guess it's a good thing it came up. For ease of getting on to tracks, getting the chassis certified would be a good idea. For what this thing will do, I doubt a funny car cage will be necessary. I am relatively sure you'll need a chute though, I've seen some very stealth installs, but can't give much advice there, sorry. Ricoch3t sounds about dead on as best I can remember as well.

Wheely bars I have seen done with four pins holding the whole thing to the frame, 5 minutes on or off and virtually invisible when not installed.

As far as slicks and drag shocks, I'm quite sure that this is either going to use on car adjustable shocks or will have separate shocks, and I don't think slicks are on the bill at all. Slicks are very hard on axles and transmissions.

[ProdigyCustoms]

I do believe you are going to have to get the chassis certified even for running 9's. I think you HAVE to have the parachute b/c the last time i read the rule it said something like
required for cars running an et of 9.99 or quicker or for cars exceeding 150mph.
.

I have not raced for a couple years, but I have been running mid to low nines, 143MPH to 146MPH with no chute for years.

Your right about the pin on shoot. I have pin on wheelie bars on my Just Bring It street racer, I did the wheelie bars pin on so I could remove them when I was street driving, but they look so cool I have never taken them off. I never put a chute on, but I might for effect if nothing else, LOL!

To add a little viewing pleasure. Here is a video of my Just Bring It street racer. We had a race here we called the No Bull Nationals. 45 Florida street racers all got together at a parking lot, cruise 30 miles to the track in traffic. We through all out names in a hat and lined um up. Only rule was you had to make it to the track without the follow (caboose) car passing you.
My friend Mark brought is alcohol injected 14:71 blown monster that runs 7.70s in heavy street. He had a extra fuel cell in the trunk filling the 20 gallon cell because 20 gallons was not enough fuel for 30 miles! He removed the extra cell at the track.

I get beat by a bumper, but I left on him, he spun, and I owned him till he came by at 179MPH! No score boards during this event, But my run was a nice very low, LOW 9 second run anyway and according to my tach 146MPH.

My Just Bring it car makes right at 750HP on Mike Norris dyno and weight 3450LBS

Anyway, was a lot of fun. I put JBI in one of my containers 3 years ago. Last month we pulled the car out of the tomb it has been in for 3 years. It will be up and running in a month or so. I miss it.

Enjoy me getting spanked.

Click on the picture

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/?action=view&current=PeeWeeAgainstGodzilla.flv)

[GrabberGT]

Wheely bars I have seen done with four pins holding the whole thing to the frame, 5 minutes on or off and virtually invisible when not installed.


Just a thought... These same pin locations can be used to mount a removable trailer hitch for the trailer you are going to need to carry all your equip to/from events. Its an idea I am working for my car. (not the chute part LOL)

[John Wright]

Here is a video
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://s169.photobucket.com/albums/u212/ProdigyCustoms/?action=view&current=PeeWeeAgainstGodzilla.flv)
Psst Frank....need a link.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Just click on the video

[Ron.in.SoCal]

You killed him on the launch....

[John Wright]

Just click on the videoLOL...I refreshed my cache and now I see the movie....silly computer, I don't understand them sometimes.

[parsonsj]

but SAFETY is also a major part of this. it wouldn't be wise to try to run a autocross w/a drag setup, or a high speed run at the level of competition they are shooting for.Speaking of safety, another one of the engineers we are consulting with about the project is Joe Marko, of HMS Motorsports. Joe has decades of experience in racing restraint systems, and consults with many racing teams around the country.

He's going to help us with our cage design, seat choice and placement, and restraint systems.

jp

[MrQuick]

You killed him on the launch....
yeah cause he stalled him in the burn out and quick staged him. That piss's guys off bad. Ask how I know. LOL
good stuff.


Vince

[monza]

Frank when I clicked on that video, I was worried you where driving that baby blue- turquoise car at the start... you came out on top again! :drive1:

[ProdigyCustoms]

yeah cause he stalled him in the burn out and quick staged him. That piss's guys off bad. Ask how I know. LOL
good stuff.
Vince

This was the finals, I had to beat some fast cars that day and was set on kill all day.

I sat in the burnout box waiting for him to put on his 300' burnout show for at least 2 minutes. It was like I was racing John Force. Whoever is racing him won't even start their burnout till he is backing up, LOL! if I would not have waited my tires would have been cold.

It was a Pro Tree, all the yellows flash at once and 4/10s later green. So after his show then he rushed all the way into the lights, Deep stagged and lit both bulbs. So when I pre stagged, I had to roll in and be ready wthin a 1 second to leave. So I no sooner was in and 1 second later the bulbs flashed and 4/10ths late GREEN.

I left him so bad when his car spun all he saw was me running away, LOL! He just has way to much MPH though, I thought he sucksed the windsheild out of my car when he came by!

We are good buddies, but he admitted his starting line tactics almost cost him the race. He thought HE would be the one to leave on me. I was set on kill, just need another 100HP of spray on the big end!

Most fun I ever had losing!

I cannot wait to get it up and running agin. I got the fever BADD.

[Jims78elky]

Good luck Frank on the new project..I just read the article in the new Super Chevy about it,looks like a great build on the way!

Wooot..Another killer car from ProdigyCustoms and John Parsons!


:cool:


-Jim

[CRCRFT78]

Pro-Street + Pro-Touring=Pro-Formance

Someone has to set the bar around here. I like everything you've got planned with this build Frank & John. :worship::cool:
Unfair should be one hell of a Pro-Former. Corny but WTH someone has to throw out these random phrases.

[JohnUlaszek]

Pro-Street + Pro-Touring=Pro-Formance

Someone has to set the bar around here. I like everything you've got planned with this build Frank & John. :worship::cool:
Unfair should be one hell of a Pro-Former. Corny but WTH someone has to throw out these random phrases.

Pro-touring + a Prodigy and II Much creation = Pro-Creation?

[Richio1]

Nice!!!!!!!

[Ricoch3T]

I have not raced for a couple years, but I have been running mid to low nines, 143MPH to 146MPH with no chute for years.




Thats cool, only reason I brought it up is when I was younger our older car dipped down into the 9's and we were told we had to put it on. we were only running 9.80's at the time around 143 144mph. Figured I'd mention it just incase.

On another note.. have yall done anything else yet? I hadn't seen any pictures since the rear clip. I check back here every day for more pics :pics2::scared:

[CraigMorrison]

Frank - How's the install going?

PICTURES?

[67SSDan]

LOL 14 pages of bench racing and 4 pictures (not including the hot chick)... I'm impressed by that if nothing else! =) Interesting project, can't wait to see some more pictures.

Dan

[LSfan70s]

I'm already getting tired of this one as I got from motiv8tor.... :dunno:
:postpics:

[CHRIZ28]

:postpics:


+1

Chris

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

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[spaghettio]

haha pictures not pitchers

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

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[Gitter Dun]

You are way troo FUNNY!!:hammer::jump::hammer::bananna2::seizure::h ah::yeah:

[Patch]

Just a few cents here from the peanut gallery, And I am not knocking your building skills one bit because you are obviously a proven and skilled builder, but it seems to me, and please correct me if I'm wrong, that you are getting away from the original theme of the car when you have to remove and replace parts for street, drag, and autocross/road race.

Like I said, not knocking it, and I truly appreciate what your doing, but to have a car that could visit each of those challenges without replacing parts, IMO, would be alot more appealing for someone like myself to build.

There is no doubt in my mind that you will meet your goals but it seems to me the real challenge would be to build a car that could do all that you said without having to remove and replace parts for each venue.

No, I'm not the fun police, just a realist.


I wouldn't dis on it too much especially if all they may be doing is swapping tires, shocks/springs ( or airbags ). 5 years ago, Chad Williams had an 8 second Viper that all he did was swap tires from street to strip.

To me it seems like a '69 version of Hot Rod's F-Bomb. Problem is that Hot Rod took that car out, rubbed on the front end and the car hasn't seen daylight in about 2 years so it's never completed it's mission. Tsk Tsk

[Steve1968LS2]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Whoa.. full on buckets of weird with that one!!!

[Gitter Dun]

I wouldn't dis on it too much especially if all they may be doing is swapping tires, shocks/springs ( or airbags ). 5 years ago, Chad Williams had an 8 second Viper that all he did was swap tires from street to strip.

To me it seems like a '69 version of Hot Rod's F-Bomb. Problem is that Hot Rod took that car out, rubbed on the front end and the car hasn't seen daylight in about 2 years so it's never completed it's mission. Tsk Tsk

Not dissing project one bit. How could you not appreciate what Frank and John are doing for all to watch and learn. This is free suspension education for all to read. It's just not what I interpeted when it was first announced.

Besides, look at all the interesting responses my post generated.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We are not trying to hold out on you guys. I got slammed last week finishing a 57 Chevy for a Rock Star that had a hard deadline. Also we decided to change up the build order a bit and finish the shell before we install the suspension. I will get some pictures up but it will be the same boring building of the shell stuff we have all seen 100 times.

[Taylor1969]

the same boring building of the shell stuff we have all seen 100 times.

Dunno about others, but I always like to check that stuff out :angel:

[MrQuick]

heres a few pictures for you....see you in a few weeks. LOL
http://www.mikescustomcars.com/projects/projects.asp?proj=RBarbara

vince

[Gitter Dun]

heres a few pictures for you....see you in a few weeks. LOL
http://www.mikescustomcars.com/projects/projects.asp?proj=RBarbara

vince

Well Hell, at least the dash is good, LOL

[Wesley J]

You guys are nuts!

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Nuts is cool!

I completely understand why you guys are rebuilding the body as you are but it must really be tough not to go with a full tube chassis at this stage...

Wes

[parsonsj]

it must really be tough not to go with a full tube chassis at this stage...Maybe the next one will have a tube chassis. :)

[Wesley J]

Funny, so will mine.

[Bryce]

My ulitmate pro-touring/street/road race/autocross/drag car will be a full tube chassis.

[Wesley J]

What are you coating the inner panels with and how are you applying it?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[PhillipM]

Looks like bedliner sprayed in a tight pattern. No?

[Bryce]

Suspension:

Since you are doing a modular rear setup. Have you considered doing a offset 3-link as well a centered 3-link. I would be interested in the reasons why the centered 3-link was chosen.

I am considering a modular rear setup on my car and running a centered and an offset 3-link and even thought about doing a torque arm brackets at the same time. Just to play with different setups and compare the benefits and compromises of each setup.

[XLexusTech]

Looks like bedliner sprayed in a tight pattern. No?

Interested in this too... lizard skin? any sound deading?

[parsonsj]

I would be interested in the reasons why the centered 3-link was chosen. Packaging. Fitting dual bracketry and leaving space for an exhaust tube means the upper 3rd link needs to be centered in the chassis.

jp

[Bryce]

Packaging. Fitting dual bracketry and leaving space for an exhaust tube means the upper 3rd link needs to be centered in the chassis.

jp

Cool thanks!

[Bjkadron]

Packaging. Fitting dual bracketry and leaving space for an exhaust tube means the upper 3rd link needs to be centered in the chassis.

jp

Exactly why I have always hated rear exit exhaust!
Just my opinion though...

[parsonsj]

Frank and I both believe strongly in getting the exhaust all the way to bumper, at least in a street car. Under car turn-downs and side exit in front of the rear tire are both loud and tiring over the long haul.

jp

[Bjkadron]

Frank and I both believe strongly in getting the exhaust all the way to bumper, at least in a street car. Under car turn-downs and side exit in front of the rear tire are both loud and tiring over the long haul.

jp

Yeah, I just said that I personally don't like them. But then again... I have never been one to shy away from loud. I'd rather do the suspension. I understand your reasoning completely though.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yup, two requirments. Exhaust to the bumper and A/C. I will gladly take penalties for both.

[Bjkadron]

Yup, two requirments. Exhaust to the bumper and A/C. I will gladly take penalties for both.

I have A/C in my car... I don't know if it works...Never tried it.:)

[slowcamaro]

Yup, two requirments. Exhaust to the bumper and A/C. I will gladly take penalties for both.

Can we make the goal 8's with the A/C running? No sense sweating your ass off in the staging lanes.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Done!

[windsor]

Granny shifting?

[jp455]

I forget right now who makes it...but theres a sequential dog ring gearbox out there for our cars. Thats surely strong enough! Plus the ability to flat shift, and do super quick shifts.

[Desert68]

Parachute, if we can design a pin on dolution where it plugs in when we need it, a chute at Maxton would be nice.

A chute might be quite helpful if things started to head south and you wanted to get straightened out ASAP.

[PhillipM]

I forget right now who makes it...but theres a sequential dog ring gearbox out there for our cars. Thats surely strong enough! Plus the ability to flat shift, and do super quick shifts.

Wasn't Kiesler making that dog ring t56?

[454bug]

Man... I get my July issue of Hot Rod Magazine today and see that another guy read the same Mark Donohue autobiography (The Unfair Advantage) as you guys and they're calling his project the same thing!!

BUMMER!! Now THAT is "UNFAIR"!! :machine:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/Image14Copy1-1.jpghttps://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/Image13Copy-1.jpg

[jp455]

Yeah I think you're right Phillip, it was Keisler. Theres a video out there of it being tested on a truck

[PhillipM]

16 Pages and only a hand full of pictures... This build thread is becoming boring.. We want progress pics!

[ProdigyCustoms]

16 Pages and only a hand full of pictures... This build thread is becoming boring.. We want progress pics!

Your right. I have been slammed in the shop working on finishing 2 other projects that are leaving. And have not worked on Unfair.

AND, we have been waiting on something BRAND NEW and we got it today..............

Our 3.6L Kenne Bell blower is here! And it is crazy! These have already made 1400HP on 5.6 litre motors! We did some careful measuring, Welded some engine mounts to our body jig.

So to get the crank pulley behind the rack (allows us to lower the enige 2" more), and to get the motor low enough for the blower to stay under a 2" cowl, we are moving engine 8" from stock location. This puts the motor 5" inside the cowl. It also puts the front of the engine block behind the centerline of the wheels!

So we are moving about 85LBS from the front to the rear (170LB swing) which combined with our aluminum nose should put us at 50 / 50 with no driver.

We are also moving the toe board back and the seat back which will recreate foot well space. Also, the floor gets lower as you move the seat back from stock position, which will lower the seat and will help give back the headroom we sacrificed raising the floor. Also we will move our own body weight back about 4 inches which will move another 40LBS (a 80LB swing) from the nose to the rear when we are in the car.

Additionally, besides the 1 1/2" channel on the body, we are also bolting in the subframe with no bushing gaining another inch of body drop. So with 2 1/2" of body drop and 3" of suspension drop, we have a 5 1/2" drop on the front and 4 1/2" drop on the rear, WITHOUT compromising suspension geometry or travel!

We have other HUGE news to announce as it relates to the engine, but are in a quite period for a few more days. But it is a BIG DEAL with a BIG name engine builder we are super excited about.

Here are a couple pics we can share.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
We most likely will have to build a custom throttle body! The inlet is HUGE and we will have to work on a few ideas to get a progressive TB that will open a little blade for drive ability and pull open the big blade for Hail Mary performance!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Tomorrow we will make a relief for the blower which needs to move back a tick over a inch from where it is sitting in this pic. It is going to look super cool when it is done. No worries about wipers, our new hidden delay wiper relocation kit (coming soon) gives us plenty of clearance.

[baggins]

just curious what is being sprayed as undercoating????

[ProdigyCustoms]

just curious what is being sprayed as undercoating????

Undercoating? On the floors? Probably none actually. They will be pretty enough to paint.

[parsonsj]

Undercoating? There won't be any. We might add some heat diffusion material, but that will be on the inside of the car.

jp

[Gitter Dun]

You guys are killing me!! Now you got me thinking about moving motor back. AHHHHH!!!

[jp455]

Is it me or is this build starting to go beyond what the "average" joe can do? :naughty:

[ProdigyCustoms]

The firewall and seat mounting will be by far the heaviest fab work, we knew that from the get go. but none of the fab is rocket science. Anyone capable of doing the quarters should be able to do the firewall.

The magazine story will discuss the engineered advantages and formulas for moving the engine back, but will also point out this is a elective thing we are doing. Well, elective for most............ because of our monster blower, it is a requirment for us. A good requirment, but a requirment none the less.

We doubt very seriously many people will use this is exact combination of monster blower and raised the floor, and set the motor back. Most will probably use a NA motor and not need to do any of this. Keep in mind also, If we would simply go ahead and use frame bushings (give up that extra inch of channeling), we could set the motor in the stock location as it would clear the rack then. but we like moving the weight back. And we will show you how we do it with no real trick tools.

[ProdigyCustoms]

You guys are killing me!! Now you got me thinking about moving motor back. AHHHHH!!!

We will be providing a engineered formula and explanation in the story. But in fast math if you assume the lump, (motor and transmission) is 800LBS, and if that lump is 60" Long overall and you move it 8" your moving 7.5% of the weight from the nose to the tail, so 7.5% X 800 is 60LBS. So 60LBS off the nose and added to the rear is a 120LB swing. If the stock car weighs car weighs 1700LB up front and 1500LB in the rear and you have 53 / 47 weight balance. If you move 60LBS from the nose to the tail you get 1640LB up front and 1560LB in the rear, and go to 51 / 49. It is a pretty big deal actually.

Now if you lower that lump 1 1/2"...................

Like I said, the story will have lots of engineering explaination

[ArtosDracon]

Vertical CG is the big deal here, if you drop your engine 1.5" you're easily lowering your CG by 1" which could easily be 5%, and will decrease the distance between your RC and your CG by more than that, which will change the roll stiffness significantly, which is very good! :)

[parsonsj]

is this build starting to go beyond what the "average" joe can do? No doubt, but what Frank said. I would argue that this mod isn't that difficult, as long as one has a welder and a supply of quality sheet metal. Let me add that we intend to photograph and show how do it, provide the engineering behind it, and document the drawbacks to this approach. One casualty is the wiper motor. It has to move, and so we'll show you our approach to how we move it. The throttle pedal is affected, the A/C evaporator, wiring, etc.

[monza]

Sounding good. The intake on that blower is F'n Huge, interested to see what you come up with to match up with that massive hole.

[MrQuick]

Your right. I have been slammed in the shop working on finishing 2 other projects that are leaving. And have not worked on Unfair.

AND, we have been waiting on something BRAND NEW and we got it today..............

Our 3.6L Kenne Bell blower is here! And it is crazy! These have already made 1400HP on 5.6 litre motors! We did some careful measuring, Welded some engine mounts to our body jig.

So to get the crank pulley behind the rack (allows us to lower the enige 2" more), and to get the motor low enough for the blower to stay under a 2" cowl, we are moving engine 8" from stock location. This puts the motor 5" inside the cowl. It also puts the front of the engine block behind the centerline of the wheels!

So we are moving about 85LBS from the front to the rear (170LB swing) which combined with our aluminum nose should put us at 50 / 50 with no driver.

We are also moving the toe board back and the seat back which will recreate foot well space. Also, the floor gets lower as you move the seat back from stock position, which will lower the seat and will help give back the headroom we sacrificed raising the floor. Also we will move our own body weight back about 4 inches which will move another 40LBS (a 80LB swing) from the nose to the rear when we are in the car.

Additionally, besides the 1 1/2" channel on the body, we are also bolting in the subframe with no bushing gaining another inch of body drop. So with 2 1/2" of body drop and 3" of suspension drop, we have a 5 1/2" drop on the front and 4 1/2" drop on the rear, WITHOUT compromising suspension geometry or travel!

We have other HUGE news to announce as it relates to the engine, but are in a quite period for a few more days. But it is a BIG DEAL with a BIG name engine builder we are super excited about.

Here are a couple pics we can share.


We most likely will have to build a custom throttle body! The inlet is HUGE and we will have to work on a few ideas to get a progressive TB that will open a little blade for drive ability and pull open the big blade for Hail Mary performance!


Tomorrow we will make a relief for the blower which needs to move back a tick over a inch from where it is sitting in this pic. It is going to look super cool when it is done. No worries about wipers, our new hidden delay wiper relocation kit (coming soon) gives us plenty of clearance.


Something to consider would be a C5 or C6 oil pan. It would give you alot more room to drop the engine another 3-4 inches. I know John used it on II much. You can even build a custom pan since you can basically build the frame around it. We have a similar situation with the 70 we are doing.

i like the TBI blade idea. Run a progressive actuator that functions like the variable tuner valves the some modern intake manifolds. Opens up a second sets of runners when power is required.
Looks good guys.

vince

[TitoJones]

Weak. If you don't do a full Dailey Engineering dry sump pan on that engine you missed the point of being 'unfair'.

I look forward to seeing this car built and then not doing any of the things you set off to do. It will never see a track day, you will break it on the drag strip and it will be at Meacom or Barrett before it has been done for 6 months. Mark my words. (Heavy sarcasm and ribbing at John/Frank before someone crys foul)

Tyler

[MrQuick]

oh yeah even better, dry sump that bits. Put that crank center 5 inches over the ground.

Tyler, has So Cal made you a salty fart already. LOL
I know j/k.

Vince

[XLexusTech]

so whens this article due to the news stands? I am using ATS mounts and plates which push the motor back and down.. however my floor is out now and if thier is some guidance in this article around raising the floor I will wait if its coming soon....

[ProdigyCustoms]

The article raising the floor is done, about 3 weeks from now will be on the newstand

[Gitter Dun]

We will be providing a engineered formula and explanation in the story. But in fast math if you assume the lump, (motor and transmission) is 800LBS, and if that lump is 60" Long overall and you move it 8" your moving 7.5% of the weight from the nose to the tail, so 7.5% X 800 is 60LBS. So 60LBS off the nose and added to the rear is a 120LB swing. If the stock car weighs car weighs 1700LB up front and 1500LB in the rear and you have 53 / 47 weight balance. If you move 60LBS from the nose to the tail you get 1640LB up front and 1560LB in the rear, and go to 51 / 49. It is a pretty big deal actually.

Now if you lower that lump 1 1/2"...................

Like I said, the story will have lots of engineering explaination

Very cool, and definitely worth the effort. you should be getting close to 250 lbs off nose with aluminum block engine. Are you considering dry sump?

I'm hoping to see that thing handle like a slot car. 12" tires up front would definitely put that thing on top. Aero would be a good thing to think about. Maybe slightly tipping the nose, blocking the grill off, and bringing air to the radiator through the valance.

I would love to see that done so that I could see the trials and tribulations before I do mine.

PITSTOPUSA has some things I was looking at that can help with ideas and design as far as radiator cooling and spoilers.

[ProdigyCustoms]

A dry sump has been theplan since day one, we just used this block for mock up. Our buddy Tyler sent us a contact today for the dry sump.

As for cooling, I am building one of our monster radiators and fan set up with dual 16" fans so strong it will be propellar driven!

Right now the plan is to keep body mods to a minimum. but plans change on the fly.

[momsnova]

Frank,

For the dry sump you might check out Daily Engineering.
They manufacture billet pans with roots style pumps.
Website: http://www.daileyengineering.com/dailey_engineering_home.htm

Lovin' the build!
Thanks for sharing!

[Patrick]

I stopped by Prodigy tonight and checked out the progress on Unfair....Holy Shizzz this thing is going to be awesome. The KB blower is massive!!

Frank and John really compliment each others talents. They start talking about an idea for the car and the next thing you know it has come to reality. They are not afraid to cut some stuff up -- but then again they have Michael to put it back together. It is very cool to watch them in action.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Very cool, and definitely worth the effort. you should be getting close to 250 lbs off nose with aluminum block engine. Are you considering dry sump?


Keep in mind we added the blower. We have not weighed it yet but it has to be every bit of 75LBS. And it is 75LBS on the top of the motor. So it is bad weight. So all the more reason to move the motor back and down.

But were are still losing a lot of weight with the subframe, aluminum body panels, and lightweight LS motor.

We put a bunch of weight right in the middle of the car tonight in the form of a T56 magnum we are using for mock up. the original plan was to use the flyweight Mcleod M800 but it looks like that won't make it in time. So right now it will either be Keislers new clutchless trans or Transzilla. But damn those T56 are heavy!

[ProdigyCustoms]

but then again they have Michael to put it back together. It is very cool to watch them in action.

You know you will get "The Call" for thrash assistance as with every other project!

Thanks in advance, LOL!

[Gitter Dun]

Keep in mind we added the blower. We have not weighed it yet but it has to be every bit of 75LBS. And it is 75LBS on the top of the motor. So it is bad weight. So all the more reason to move the motor back and down.

But were are still losing a lot of weight with the subframe, aluminum body panels, and lightweight LS motor.

We put a bunch of weight right in the middle of the car tonight in the form of a T56 magnum we are using for mock up. the original plan was to use the flyweight Mcleod M800 but it looks like that won't make it in time. So right now it will either be Keislers new clutchless trans or Transzilla. But damn those T56 are heavy!

I hear you, thats why I stick with the Muncie. With a road course car weight and tires are everything. Horse power is a bonus but in my past experiences it doesn't sem to contribute as much as one would think.

Aero is huge though, especially for what your building. I temporaraly tried out a fiberglass hood awhile back with no substructure. At speeds of 65 I noticed the center of the hood bowing up. That right there made me think of when I was doing 140 at Thunderhill with steel hood and the front of the car was lifting, most likely due to air coming through grill and pushing up on hood.

[Bryce]

We most likely will have to build a custom throttle body! The inlet is HUGE and we will have to work on a few ideas to get a progressive TB that will open a little blade for drive ability and pull open the big blade for Hail Mary performance!
[/B]

What about a bypass with a valve for the throttle body.

[ArtosDracon]

What about a bypass with a valve for the throttle body.

Like a 60mm IAC almost, that's a pretty slick idea actually. Could plumb it more like a wastegate. Not sure how you'd work TPS readings though. Unless you make it level with the big TB and use one TB shaft for both TBs but have a special gear set that opens the big TB late and fast.

[John Wright]

But damn those T56 are heavy!
Hahahaha....I remember lugging my Viper T56 from the basement all the way across the yard a couple hundred feet to where I had the car......yup, heavy tranny for sure.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We are going to need to figure something out. EmptyNest had dual 70 MM and the one thing I hated was you could not leave a stop light without raising hell. You touch the throttle and got this HUGE gulp of air and the car lunged. This will be even worse I think with one big blade. So were looking for ideas here but admitidly have not made any phone calls yet.

[jp455]

Viper engines are big as well and have two simultaneous throttle blades which work well. Maybe make the throttle pedal linkage have a rising rate so that a lot of initial travel moves the blade a little and the last bit of travel moves it a lot. I remember Peter Wheeler (TVR fame) always said that TVRs had traction control...a pedal with long travel.

[ArtosDracon]

Long travel on the gas pedal is good for rpm control, but bad for engines with wide rpm bands. Your leg gets tired. A dual blade throttle body with progressive linkage would be relatively easy. Basically you could use a linkage identical to a dual carb linkage, have the throttles mirror each other so the throttle controls are on the outside, run the tps off the main linkage instead of off the TB directly.

[jp455]

That was actually the first thing I thought of, a linkage like 4 barrel carbs where the second two come in later. I thought it would be more complicated than my first suggestion so I didn't bring it up. Can't wait to see the final result though!

[parsonsj]

Right: as was mentioned, we need an accurate reading on TPS since the car is fuel injected, and dual blades and custom IAC ideas all complicate that. I think we'll be looking for a DBW solution before long.

[preston]

That inlet is huge enough you could almost weld up a mount and use a standard 4 bbl throttle body mounted vertically !

But yeah with the ease of DBW on the LS motor it makes more sense to do that, then you can control the throttle curve all you want, and makes it ideal for TC as well. DBW is from what I've researched the only proper way to do TC..

Unfortunately the only aftermarket ECU that does TC and DBW is a $4500 Motec box. Unless someone has hacked the GM stuff to do aggressive TC.

Glad to hear you are going dry sump, I don't really take a car seriously anymore that isn't. Once you lower the engine though, you start staring at the next link hitting the gound, the bellhousing and you start thinking about mini clutches. That's where I ended up drawing the line. A man's got to know his limitations and $4k carbon triples (for streetability) weren't in my game plan not to mention reverse mount starters (passenger leg room don't you know).

[ProdigyCustoms]

Lucky for use the Quicktime bellhousing is not really low. And if we trim off the flange on the bootom of the housing we gain a bit more.

[Steve1968LS2]

We will be providing a engineered formula and explanation in the story. But in fast math if you assume the lump, (motor and transmission) is 800LBS, and if that lump is 60" Long overall and you move it 8" your moving 7.5% of the weight from the nose to the tail, so 7.5% X 800 is 60LBS. So 60LBS off the nose and added to the rear is a 120LB swing. If the stock car weighs car weighs 1700LB up front and 1500LB in the rear and you have 53 / 47 weight balance. If you move 60LBS from the nose to the tail you get 1640LB up front and 1560LB in the rear, and go to 51 / 49. It is a pretty big deal actually.

Now if you lower that lump 1 1/2"...................

Like I said, the story will have lots of engineering explaination

Yep.. location of weight is as important as actual weight..

Right now Penny is 51/49, which is why i refuse to add a blower..

BTW.. that KB blower is well over 100 lbs once you add the intercooloer an all the "stuff"

Project is looking good :)

[nvr2fst]

I agree with Tyler if your going all out on the motor you might as well get the best dam oil pan pump set up available (Dailey Engineering) Bill is extremely knowledgeable and a great guy to work with. Be prepared to open your wallet wide, a complete set up from pan to tank will run you up over 4K. If you plan on running AC you will have to do a custom drive assembly and if you plan on tracking for long periods at a time order the air separator option to prevent oil from foaming.
Bill has in the works a oil pan to replace the stock pans on the LS7 which will maintain your present AC and no modifications if you care to wait. I choose not to considering we built the chassis around the pan specifications (deep pan version which is still less in height than most other after market pans) It is expected to be out in July.
Kick ass blower set up BTW

[DEIGuy38]

Armstrong Race Engineering is another good dry sump guy

http://www.drysump.com/index1.htm

[Rick D]

Ok just got the July Super Chevy and NOTHING is in it!!!

VERY UNFAIR
:lol::lol:

[XLexusTech]

Ok just got the July Super Chevy and NOTHING is in it!!!
VERY UNFAIR
:lol::lol:


We had to wait for the June issue of Super Chevy Magazine to hit the streets.

Maybe they meant the issue that hits the stands in June which perhaps is the august addition

[dhutton]

Ok just got the July Super Chevy and NOTHING is in it!!!

VERY UNFAIR

:lol::lol:


X2 The tease continues... :razz:

[ProdigyCustoms]

August is the first issue.

[zerotofear]

What's the budget for this project?

[Rick D]

August is the first issue.

Your just a BIG tease Frank :poke:

[454bug]

If the new transmission you were waiting for is not produced in time you might consider the Quaife 6-speed Sequential-Shifter...

Now that would be the BOMB!!! :headbang:

It could handle the horsepower...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/qbe60g-1.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

What's the budget for this project?

No budget, we are simply getting the best of the best materials to build the best all around car one can build. This is not a budget build. No cheap parts will work on this one. We are building a Supercar, and Supercars are not cheap.

With that said, $4000 oil pan kits are not in the budget either! We do have to keep in mind we are building something to run some track days, not the 24 hours of Daytona!

Cost, Labor? If you value R and D time. R and D time will be HEAVY. We had 100s of hours in it before we touched the real car. Labor hours will be very high. John, Michael and I have multiple long days in it already. Hours add up quick when there are 3 of us working on it. Writing 72 pages of tech in the next 12 months is a lot of hours.

We have goals, we are only worried about the goals.

We will add up the cost at the end.

[Nate K]

If the new transmission you were waiting for is not produced in time you might consider the Quaife 6-speed Sequential-Shifter...

Now that would be the BOMB!!! :headbang:

It could handle the horsepower...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/qbe60g-1.jpg

X2

I want one of these.

[jp455]

Does that gearbox work with or without dogrings? If it does it would be a pain on the street!

[Ron S]

If the new transmission you were waiting for is not produced in time you might consider the Quaife 6-speed Sequential-Shifter...

Now that would be the BOMB!!! :headbang:

It could handle the horsepower...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/qbe60g-1.jpg

I'm looking at different transmission for my Mustang. Looked on the Quaife web site, it said it was good for 400 ft/lbs. I think I could break that, and I know Frank, and John could break it with th HP they are looking at. Is there a beefed up version Ray? Ron

[nvr2fst]

The new Quaife is open face dog box on the gears and drive discs.
By all means this tranny in stock form will not handle Franks and Johns intentions on torque/hp.

[ProdigyCustoms]

It is looking like a Tranzilla. We used a T56 Magnum I have for another project for mock up just in case.

The Transzilla Close ratio box has awesome gear ratios

2.29
1.60
1.21
1.00
.85
.76

Should run like a 2 stroke dirt bike with those gear splits. And should pull the double overdrive.

Here is a little live action shot for you guys. We are finishing the firewall and tunnel today for the next story installment. This was the heaviest fabrication yet, but we used some old tricks to be sure anyone could do it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[454bug]

I'm looking at different transmission for my Mustang. Looked on the Quaife web site, it said it was good for 400 ft/lbs. I think I could break that, and I know Frank, and John could break it with the HP they are looking at. Is there a beefed up version Ray? Ron

Hey Ron,

The picture of the trans I posted above was the first RWD trans I could find before I went off to church this morning... I didn't have time to download the actual one I was referring to. Here's their "Viper" model that gets used for road racing all the time. As you can see, it says it's rated for 750 hp. I'm sure there's quite a bit of "safety factor" built into that number... Off the shelf, they have a Viper bellhousing but when I contacted them they said they could produce any bellhousing for the major car brands out there...

If you go on some of the Viper forums they are using this transmission behind a number of twin-turbo setups with no problems...

Frank, I'm sure the Tranzilla is a GREAT choice and cost quite a bit less than this transmission anyway...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/Quaife33G6speedTransmission85x11-1.jpg

[ProdigyCustoms]

Seems impossible that skinny input shaft could hold 750HP. But I would not doubt Quaife

[wmhjr]

I wonder what tq it will hold. Maybe it holds 750hp at 12000rpm but not 550lbs tq? That shaft looks a little puny to me for high torque also.

[Twentyover]

................We will add up the cost at the end.

I tell my wife I'll do this, but I never do. Otherwise there would never be a next time.

[dhutton]

Here is a little live action shot for you guys. We are finishing the firewall and tunnel today for the next story installment. This was the heaviest fabrication yet, but we used some old tricks to be sure anyone could do it.

[/QUOTE]

Now we're getting somewhere. :twothumbs Is that an off the shelf piece you are using on the firewall? It looks like it is. Interested to see how you do the gas pedal.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Here is a little live action shot for you guys. We are finishing the firewall and tunnel today for the next story installment. This was the heaviest fabrication yet, but we used some old tricks to be sure anyone could do it.



Now we're getting somewhere. :twothumbs Is that an off the shelf piece you are using on the firewall? [/QUOTE]

Very much so! Some pre fabricated pieces and some flat sheet is all we needed.

[Kenova]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
:hmm: Is that a wheelbarrow Frank?

Ken

[ProdigyCustoms]

Very good!

We said it was a off the shelf piece! Hows that for do it at home!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[thedodgeboys]

thats cool :1st:

[Bjkadron]

AWESOME!!!! Great Idea!

One other question, Who is picking up the tab on this build?

[ProdigyCustoms]

John and I are equal partners and are funding it ourselves.

[nvr2fst]

Very good!

We said it was a off the shelf piece! Hows that for do it at home!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Ha, Im not going to even ask you guys how that idea got started :hmm:
Nice thinking Guys.

Frank, I expect to start seeing wheel barrows on the GP store site.

[68Formula]

Now that, is true hot rodding!


Very good!

We said it was a off the shelf piece! Hows that for do it at home!



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[jp455]

Lemme guess...a shovel is gonna be the hood scoop!:idea: That outside the box thinkin is promising an awesome project!

[David Sloan]

Hey thats the same wheel barrel i used LOL! But mine was last years model (Red) LOL!
This thing is going to be sick Frank/JP
Thanks for sharing


Very good!

We said it was a off the shelf piece! Hows that for do it at home!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[protouring70]

And they tell us to think outside the box at work!??! Boy, wait till I tell them about this..

Hey, I can't say much, on one of my projects we needed just a little more metal and I WAS throwing away a gas grill. We used the shelf to finish what we needed.

What ever works at the time!!!!

[rrstroker71]

That started way back in the 70's. We were doing that because that was all we could think of at the time to get clearance. there were no bitchin firewalls around back then. Nice to see some real old school street rod ideas being used!

[parsonsj]

Earlier in the week, I told Michael we could use a wheelbarrow as a way to make an "instant firewall". Watching his face betray his mind chewing on that idea was awesome!

About the gas pedal: Michael and I notched the driver's side of the wheelbarrow to recapture as much space for that as we would. It was a balancing act to give us room for the header, foot space for the pedal, and room to get the bellhousing off the engine block without removing the engine ('cuz I expect a lot of clutch replacements, lol).

We'll see how it all works soon enough.

jp

[brrymnvette]

Can you start a new thread that is just a pic thread that only the two of you can post/modify? And leave this thread for the discussion. 19 pages and 17 of them are teaser. I feel like I'm at a strip club.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Can you start a new thread that is just a pic thread that only the two of you can post/modify? And leave this thread for the discussion. 19 pages and 17 of them are teaser. I feel like I'm at a strip club.

I think there is some good conversation, ideas, doubts, challenges, questions and answers here for all to read. All in all I think the thread has stayed on task pretty well. We will post more as we get farther. We do not have any parts hold ups RIGHT NOW for a good 4 to 6 weeks of work. We will post updates as we go but the intimate details will be in Super Chevy.

[ProdigyCustoms]

Earlier in the week, I told Michael we could use a wheelbarrow as a way to make an "instant firewall". Watching his face betray his mind chewing on that idea was awesome!


Reminded me of the old advertisment with the dog listening to the phonograph!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Nate K]

Hey thats the same wheel barrel i used LOL! But mine was last years model (Red) LOL!
This thing is going to be sick Frank/JP
Thanks for sharing

Thats funny I used a black one mine must be from 2 years ago LOL.
Next is the 55 gallon drum wheel tubs.

[randywyatt2000]

cool but ill keep my thout's to myself

[jp455]

Firewall isn't the place for it...but why is nobody (that I've seen) doing carbon fiber wheel wells, trunk floors etc?

[jknight16]

Anvil is doing the carbon front wheelhouses.

[jp455]

Cool! Thats a start...now a carbon/honeycomb trunk floor could be next since its the easiest piece shape wise. Whats the part behind the rear seats called? Rear bulkhead? One of those in carbon/honeycomb with a metal edge to bolt it on would be cool and functional too.

[Larry Callahan]

earlier in the week, i told michael we could use a wheelbarrow as a way to make an "instant firewall". Watching his face betray his mind chewing on that idea was awesome!

lol!

[MrQuick]

Cool! Thats a start...now a carbon/honeycomb trunk floor could be next since its the easiest piece shape wise. Whats the part behind the rear seats called? Rear bulkhead? One of those in carbon/honeycomb with a metal edge to bolt it on would be cool and functional too.
you been looking through my build book? way too close to be a coincidence.


looks good guys but just cause you hacked the wheel burrow doesn't excuse you from yard work this summer. LOL
Vince

[John Wright]

you been looking through my build book? why too close to be a coincidence.


looks good guys buy just cause you hacked the wheel burrow doesn't excuse you from yard work this summer. LOL
VinceThey are far enough South that they probably wouldn't think to use the rest of the wheelbarrow to haul fire wood on.

[jp455]

haha! No Vince, no spies on that side of the world right now. But check this out...its the trunk floor/rear bumper structure/rear chassis brace. All in aluminum honeycomb/carbon fiber and brazed titanium for the vertical panel. Awesome stuff!!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/101_4444-1.jpg

[CraigMorrison]

Manuel - what kind of car is that?

[Bjkadron]

Manuel - what kind of car is that?

I don't know but it looks like it has a viper engine.

[MuscleRodz]

Manuel - what kind of car is that?

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40176

[JEFFTATE]

If I cannot shift I might find a little girl to drive it!

Wonder who I could get? Need someone local?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXuI8EkVmDI


WOW !!!
The perfect woman !!
I found a new gearhead girl to stalk.....
Thanks Frank !

[93Polo]

I'm looking at different transmission for my Mustang. Looked on the Quaife web site, it said it was good for 400 ft/lbs. I think I could break that, and I know Frank, and John could break it with th HP they are looking at. Is there a beefed up version Ray? Ron
I think 540Hotrod on Chevelles.com and Corvetteforum is running a semi clutchless shift 5 spd G-force in his 9 sec 540" 67 Vette. It is still an H pattern shifter. If you want something that is trick and will take the abuse that maybe the ticket.

[preston]

Jericho 5 speed !

Not very streetable due to noise though. With the kind of torque you will have you could go old school and run a bombproof 4 speed with a 2.50 rear end.

Thumbs up to Jessica !

[XLexusTech]

Fla Girls rule... hotter then Jersey girls and much more fun :-)

[elitecustombody]

It is looking like a Tranzilla. We used a T56 Magnum I have for another project for mock up just in case.

The Transzilla Close ratio box has awesome gear ratios

2.29
1.60
1.21
1.00
.85
.76

Should run like a 2 stroke dirt bike with those gear splits. And should pull the double overdrive.

Here is a little live action shot for you guys. We are finishing the firewall and tunnel today for the next story installment. This was the heaviest fabrication yet, but we used some old tricks to be sure anyone could do it.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Frank have you considered using Getrag V160 Supra 6 speed? It's well proven transmission than can handle over 1000hp with out BS, I could never understand why guys with high HP bad ass PT cars still use T56 that can't handle more than 700hp one quick miss shift and it needs a rebuild. You'll twist the driveshaft into a pretzel ,snap axles and even break $1500 carbon driveshaft on a car with V160 and the tranny will just keep going.Just a thought.

Stefan

[rockytopper]

You will lose to Penny on the autocross. Kind of UNFAIR isn't it?

lol

Sorry.. couldn't resist.. :D

Bad Ass project.. Can't wait to see her all done up and killing apexes.. Even though you jilted me for another magazine I still get a free ride, right?


The Cobra is still going to kick both your Assssssssssses.

Kind of UNFAIR isn't it?
Sorry.. couldn't resist:)

[ProdigyCustoms]

Not really. Lets take that Cobra on Power Tour

[Gitter Dun]

Not really. Lets take that Cobra on Power Tour

LOL, I love it!! Bring it on, Baby!!

[rockytopper]

Not really. Lets take that Cobra on Power Tour

Would he be allowed to have a tanker truck as part of his crew on the tour? LOL You make a valid point.

[Vegas69]

That cobra is not invincable. Ryan Mathews narrowly(less than a second) got out gunned by the Cobra on the road course. The real problem is the autocross. It's just so damn light and stiff. Add the driver being a multi time track champion and it's a tough combo to beat. You can build the baddest car on the planet but the wheel man is more important. At least in our world. I've heard John has been taking some classes but these aren't Z06's. He's going to need some serious track time to get used to this custom car and all it's systems. Custom ABS, Traction control, ergonomics, crazy power, etc. That's the bigger obstacle in my mind. The car will have the capability to take on that cobra. Will the driver? I hope so....

[parsonsj]

Will the driver? I hope so....There's no way. Seriously. I've got around 100 laps in at Spring Mountain, plus some time at Sebring next month and hopefully October (with the October time in the actual car).

I'll bet the Cobra fellow has a 100 times that. I'll catch up in my third lifetime, lol.

jp

[Vegas69]

Don't discount yourself John. When I went to El Toro I never would've guessed I'd run within one second of David Pozzi and Ryan Mathews. (I would've bought the BFG's to compete for the title) Sure I was on R888's but it was only my second road race. First being a miserable failure puking a power steering pump just as I got up to speed. I think your biggest obstacle is seat time in the new car. You've got to tweak that car to your liking and that's going to take a handful of events. I've got mine where I really like the feel. If I can just get rid of the need to pump my brakes for knockback, I feel pretty dialed feel and engine wise. We know the load lies on you. Frank belongs in the B main. haha

[Wesley J]

Frank have you considered using Getrag V160 Supra 6 speed? It's well proven transmission than can handle over 1000hp with out BS, I could never understand why guys with high HP bad ass PT cars still use T56 that can't handle more than 700hp one quick miss shift and it needs a rebuild. You'll twist the driveshaft into a pretzel ,snap axles and even break $1500 carbon driveshaft on a car with V160 and the tranny will just keep going.Just a thought.

Stefan

How much torque can those tranny's handle? Just wondering what a heavy rotating assembly, 800 lbs of torque and a 3500-4000 lb car does to the equation.

Are these tanny's readily available?

Sounds like an interesting option as I'm looking to move to a 6 speed this winter.

Wes

[dipren443]

How much torque can those tranny's handle? Just wondering what a heavy rotating assembly, 800 lbs of torque and a 3500-4000 lb car does to the equation.

Are these tanny's readily available?

Sounds like an interesting option as I'm looking to move to a 6 speed this winter.

Wes

Supra turbos tip the scale at just under 3500 lbs... They are not light by any means.

[jp455]

That is an excellent choice, but I'm sure the pain of having to adapt the shaft to the engine is a huge part in why more people don't use it. Althoug I admit that I don't know if thats the case or not...if it isn't then I really can't see why not!

[elitecustombody]

How much torque can those tranny's handle? Just wondering what a heavy rotating assembly, 800 lbs of torque and a 3500-4000 lb car does to the equation.

Are these tanny's readily available?

Sounds like an interesting option as I'm looking to move to a 6 speed this winter.

Wes

I don't know exact number, but I'm positive it can handle just about anything you can throw at it ,especially in a PT platform, it's a well built transmission. List price was about $5800 last year,Toyota has plenty of them.

I wouldn't hesitate to have it in a car even with 1500+hp .

Bone stock MKIV weighs 3486 lbs, there are 2900-3000 lbs street Supras ,even few guys that have 2700lbs cars, but no a/c ,carpet,e.t.c.

Stefan

[elitecustombody]

That is an excellent choice, but I'm sure the pain of having to adapt the shaft to the engine is a huge part in why more people don't use it. Althoug I admit that I don't know if thats the case or not...if it isn't then I really can't see why not!

C'mon , with all the vendors and shops on these boards, it would be a piece of cake to machine adapter plate to mate Getrag V160 or V161 to LSX,

Stefan

[parsonsj]

Frank and I have a couple irons in the fire on transmissions, but this Getrag sounds like it should be a player.

Any idea how the input shaft stacks up against the T56, especially in length? Also, is there a ready-made solution for the output shaft? Just use the Toyota part? 1350 on the other end...

jp

[hefs72]

I'm sure you guys have already looked at g-force trannys. if not check it out. I ran a Straight Cut T-5 in my mustang and beat the hell out of it with no problems even after 2 years of 7000rpm dumps on the line it still performed no breaks. They may have something that will work for you guys.

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gt-56.asp

http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/tran_gf5r.asp


We have TRUE bolt-in kits to fit Viper, Corvette, Camaro, and Cobra applications along with custom installation kits that allow for an even wider range of installations. With the optional G-Force mainshafts, these kits have the ability to handle approximately 1200* horsepower and 1000 ft-lb. of torque depending on the application

[jp455]

Stefan, like Parsons said, its the input shaft thats the unknown...a plate to mate the trans to the engine is cake! But if the shaft isn't the same then it becomes a problem, and don't forget that a custom clutch will be needed too if the splines are different. Not extreme problems by any means, just saying thats most likely the main reason why more people here don't use that trans.

On the subject of choices its too bad that this company doesn't make a front engine/rear drive transmission.

http://www.cimaingranaggi.it/en/gt_road.html

I've used that gearbox and it works really sweet! The shift mechanism can be sequential but it still has synchros and all so its completely streetable.

[elitecustombody]

Gotcha, Frank or JP could stop by Titan and talk to Nero or Bottle, I'm sure they have one they could let them borrow it to see if they can make it work, Titan is right around the corner. Worst case I'll let them borrow my spare tranny. The shaft is 14 spline, 1 and 3/16" diameter, I can snap few pics if needed

Stefan

[ProdigyCustoms]

Stepan

How about a input shaft measurement. And also input diameter and depth at the pilot bearing. We are thinking if the Gertag has a longer input then a T56, it will be easy to make a adapter and I am sure getting a clutch disc made with the correct diameter and spline will be the easy part. But if the input shaft is shorter then we get into fabing a bellhousing, bigger project.

[elitecustombody]

Frank,I will try to get that with pics in next couple of days

[Sixty9Commodore]

Here is site with some information about Getrag V160 transmission: http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/pages/technical/jza80/V160.htm

[elitecustombody]

That's cool , man, I was about to pull my tranny to take pics and measurments,saved me the hassle of dragging my spare out of storage

Stefan

[John Wright]

http://www.suprastore.com/tosuge6sptrn.html

http://www.inline6performance.com/b6v1getr.html

[parsonsj]

Yikes! I don't think it will work:

Gear Ratio
First 3.827
Second 2.360
Third 1.685
Fourth 1.312
Fifth 1.000
Sixth 0.793
Reverse 3.280

First gear will be unusable.

[John Wright]

Yikes! I don't think it will work:

Gear Ratio
First 3.827
Second 2.360
Third 1.685
Fourth 1.312
Fifth 1.000
Sixth 0.793
Reverse 3.280

First gear will be unusable.

maybe these guys will have some other 1st gear ratios that will work better for you:

http://www.teamrip.com/toyota.htm

[jp455]

I'm sure theres a reason so I'll ask out of curiosities sake...why not change the rear end ratio to make 1st gear work? Too high a gear in 6th?

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK, here is why.

The unit we are looking at is:

(1st) 2.29
(2nd) 1.60
(3rd) 1.29
(4th) 1.00
(5th) .85
(6th) .70

With these gear splits being so close it will sound like a 2 stroke motorcycle once it gets on the pipe.

RPM drop between gears are perfect:

1-2 shift 7000 to 5000 RPM
2-3 shift 7000 to 5600 RPM
3-4 7000 to 5600 RPM
4-5 shift 7000 to 6000 RPM
5-6 shift 7000 to 5800 RPM

With a 3.70 gear this gives us a 9.8 starting line ratio. A tennie bit tall for most cars, but with our crazy low end grunt, we need to calm it a bit anyway.

With 7000 RPM capability we turn MPH in gears:

With our 25.7 Autocross / Road Race tires:

63 MPH in first gear, meaning on MOST autocross we will not have to shift, BIG DEAL!

Will run 145 MPH in 4th gear, more then enough for the longest straights and avoid a 5th gear shift, Big Deal!

Our drag / Maxton tires are 28" so it will run:

158MPH in 4th gear, more then enough for our 8.99 pass at the drag strip, and no 5th gear shift at the last minute.

At Maxton mile it will run 225 MPH in 6th, easily covering our 200 MPH goal.

[John Wright]

OK, here is why.

The unit we are looking at is:

(1st) 2.29
(2nd) 1.60
(3rd) 1.29
(4th) 1.00
(5th) .85
(6th) .70

With the stock gearing in that Getrag....you would have to leave in 2nd to get closer to your current 1st gear ratio.

[parsonsj]

Right. First gear wouldn't have much value, unless tire shredding is a virtue. :)

jp

[pokey64]

Ok just got the July Super Chevy and NOTHING is in it!!!




VERY UNFAIR


August is the first issue.


August issue landed in my mailbox today :yum:

[ProdigyCustoms]

Yup, they are hitting the streets. Every month now for the next 12 to 15 issues!

[XLexusTech]

somthing tells me the updates pics and videos on this build will be like Motivator but in reverse.....

Ricken Magizine threads :machine:

:lol:

[David Sloan]

Nice wright up in Super Chevy
Thanks for sharing.

[Memphis]

How is heat soak going to be with that blower? For some reason I assumed it would get a F2 or something similar.

[ProdigyCustoms]

How is heat soak going to be with that blower? For some reason I assumed it would get a F2 or something similar.

The Kenne bell is cooled directly into the blower and also under the blower in the take so it has the coolest temps of all the blower possibilities. We are working on a couple solutions to keep it COOL.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The brass outlets are cooling ports

[Larry Callahan]

And I thought my valve covers were hard to get too. LOL!

Great writeup by the way. I scored my copy over the weekend.

[ProdigyCustoms]

OK, so time to update. We have been crushed at Prodigy Customs finishing (4) projects, (3) 69 Camaro's all of which are headed to RTTHs for their debut. We also have been readying the Bull Run Racer for Bull Run 2010 with a new Magnum 6 speed and lots of tinkering, and Lucy is ready to kick much ass this year!

John has been working on the Isis System and plumbing of a absolutely gorgeous black 69 Camaro we are finishing for a member. This is one of the cars coming to Pigeon Forge. While we have all been slamming on the other cars we have been working out the final details and sources for Project Unfair preparing for the eminent thrash.

Tomorrow is a big day for the project. I am flying to New Jersey to meet with Pat Musi to finalize the details of our engine build. Our RHS Block is already at Musi's shop. Our Mast Motorsports 6 bolt heads are shipping this week. The national sales manager and my close friend Tom Razzanno (who's SB2 headed SBC 427 68 Camaro convertible we are finishing right now) will be at the meeting as Manley will be supplying their killer rotating assembly. With the bulletproof list of parts and Musi building the motor, John and I are very comfortable of our power goals will met and the durability of the monster. I still cannot believe we are building a car and Pat Musi is building the engine...pinch me!

John has our traction control system in hand and is working through that. Our Holley fuel injection is on the way to John (exciting stuff for sure).

Last week Michael got the rear clip / suspension in the car. The installation went really well. The frame rails fit the floor perfectly. This week Michael will be doing the tubs and outer body sheetmetal. Then Unfair goes to John who has boxes and boxes of header and exhaust material from Cone Engineering. We are familiar with the quality of Cone Engineering products as we used them on Larry's MotiV8tr. At John's he will be doing pre wiring and plumbing while we wait for our drivetrain to arrive. Unfair will head back to Prodigy in a few weeks for body / Paint and get ready for final assembly. Things are gong to move very quickly now so the update will come faster.

Here is some automotive jewelry for you

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The Art Morrison sports a slightly relocated Woodward rack. Our front pulley sits BEHIND the rack the way we have it set up. Michael should put in the rack this week.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
I just love calling it our 5 link! I think I am unnaturally attracted to the rear suspension!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
The boys are Xing out the rear clip in preparation for welding.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
I was extremely impressed with how well the Morrison frame rails fit the floor. Just awesome quality stuff!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
We have a little closeout work to do around the multi link brackets.

[parsonsj]

Oh yeah, boxes of stuff have been coming in from Cone Engineering. According to several people, to make 1200 hp, you need 4" exhaust. So Cone sent a bunch of 4" mandrel bends. I gotta tell you, 4" exhaust is so big it will make you giggle. It's unnaturally big, like Pamela Anderson or Dolly Parton or something.

We also picked up several of their merge collector kits, to go along with header materials, which is the next story in Super Chevy (after the suspension fab): Unfair gets some monster headers.

jp

[formula]

does this mean we won't have the pleasure of either of you guys' presence at PSMC?

[ProdigyCustoms]

No, this weekend John will be at the Daytona race. I will be autocrossing.

[Doug1]

Frank, rumor has it that there is a 2nd gen TA in your shop somewhere... "patiently" waiting on it's new bones from AME. The more I see of Unfair, the more like a kid in a candy store I get. :jump:

[MarkM66]

Oh yeah, boxes of stuff have been coming in from Cone Engineering. According to several people, to make 1200 hp, you need 4" exhaust. So Cone sent a bunch of 4" mandrel bends. I gotta tell you, 4" exhaust is so big it will make you giggle. It's unnaturally big, like Pamela Anderson or Dolly Parton or something.

We also picked up several of their merge collector kits, to go along with header materials, which is the next story in Super Chevy (after the suspension fab): Unfair gets some monster headers.

jp


John,

Did you consider using oval?

[westoz]

Great write up guys, and even better build. This is going to be one absolutely amazing ride. Can't wait see it go head to head with a few Euro exotics !

[preston]

According to several people, to make 1200 hp, you need 4" exhaust

What size header primaries are you building ?

I have seen several turbo corvettes with internet dyno sheets of 1000+ hp while using 3" dual exhaust, but I imagine the turbo combos respond differently.

[preston]

I lost track, are you using RaceLogic traction control - if not can you share what system you are using ?

[parsonsj]

We are using 2" primaries and a 4" merge collector, 4" X-pipe that will size down to 3" mufflers and 3" tail-pipes for the street.

We might need to run 4" mufflers for drag-racing or high-speed runs. We'll see. If so, Cone has us covered with 4" mufflers that have awesome flow... though little noise reduction.

[parsonsj]

Yes, we are using the RaceLogic system with C6 and 4th gen F-body ABS wheel sensors.

jp

[CraigMorrison]

Great job guys! Now this is going to debut in Columbus isn't it?:smoke:

[parsonsj]

Columbus? Maybe. Debut? No way. :)

[406 Q-ship]

Oh yeah, boxes of stuff have been coming in from Cone Engineering. According to several people, to make 1200 hp, you need 4" exhaust. So Cone sent a bunch of 4" mandrel bends. I gotta tell you, 4" exhaust is so big it will make you giggle. It's unnaturally big, like Pamela Anderson or Dolly Parton or something.

We also picked up several of their merge collector kits, to go along with header materials, which is the next story in Super Chevy (after the suspension fab): Unfair gets some monster headers.

jp

Tell me about how over the top a 4" exhaust system is, I did one for a friend on a blown 1970 Super Bee with a 572 Hemi. I even went over the axle with the system. Too see those two 4" turn downs at the rear valance......:eek: :yum: :jump:

[wellis77]

Can you give up any info on the ABS yet? Is it going to be a universal kit requiring programming, something for specific models?

[preston]

Yeah I can't believe there is no semi-universal abs system available to the aftermarket yet. The first company that comes out with that for < $2k will make some money. Wheel speed sensors seem to be the biggest problem but its not rocket science.

However the liability issues in the US are.

I'm starting to get excited about this car, even if it is a unibody :)

[joemac]

If I were a stand alone/aftermarket abs manufacturer I would make a sensor that stuck in the valve stem like a tpms sensor. I think that would be the easiest way to do it. Wireless and hidden in the tire. With the cost of electronics falling more and more the wheel sensors should be one of the cheaper components.

It seems to me such a system shouldn't be that complicated really. It needs a control monitor and the motor. Wire it, plumb it and done.

[silver69camaro]

Yeah I can't believe there is no semi-universal abs system available to the aftermarket yet.

There is, Bosch has had theirs out for a year or two now.

But, the system would need to be programmable (IMO) in order to work well enough to justify the big price tag - and that really drives the price up. Then you need some PC interface and software to communicate with the EBCM.

I'm using a Z06 EBCM on my car, but only because it's a good match. If a guy had a stock subframe with more front weight, different tire heights, higher CG, etc it wouldn't work as well and probably wouldn't be worth the trouble.

[parsonsj]

The Bosch system looks great... but I can't even figure out what parts to order. They can't be targeting the retail market with their approach so far. My understanding is that the price is way above $2k...

jp

[Bryce]

http://www.bosch-motorsport.com/content/language2/html/3826.htm

here is a link with prices to the bosch kit.

[jp455]

If Bosch comes out with a system even half as easy to integrate they would already be on to something! A project I was involved with was in talks with Bosch directly and to get all the parameters programed to make the system work as an OEM was a major pain! not to mention hundres of thousand of Euros. They wanted the car for many days of testing and tweaking and would not let us program the control unit ourselves....a major major pain!

[CraigMorrison]

I spoke with the head of motorsports from Bosch at SEMA last year. In addition to the system costing nearly $6000-7000+ they said it was not designed for street use.

It seems that when/if there is an issue with the system it shuts down and no brakes! One specific instance the race car crashed due to a system failure.

[John Wright]

It seems that when/if there is an issue with the system it shuts down and no brakes! One specific instance the race car crashed due to a system failure.
:scared:Yikes!....dat not good.

[Doug1]

I spoke with the head of motorsports from Bosch at SEMA last year. In addition to the system costing nearly $6000-7000+ they said it was not designed for street use.

It seems that when/if there is an issue with the system it shuts down and no brakes! One specific instance the race car crashed due to a system failure.

That is nuts. I'm sure their OEM systems don't fail open.

[jp455]

Wow! I'm surprised that even on a race only system it fails in the open position!

I know when we spoke with them the whole tuning of the system was a huuuge pain. They wanted the car for several months to drive in all type of conditions, and the costs were insane! we tried getting them to let us use a Porsche 911 system since the weight distribution was very close, still no go. Not that its comparable excatly but its in the same league, the traction control from Race Logic in comparison was a piece of cake! Drive in a straight line for so many yards, make a u turn, drive back. Done! haha! Only want 5% slip instead of 10%...turn the knob. Awesome system really!

[customsfactory]

If it doesn't have airbags then I would feel like the package is lacking, wouldn't you? Food for thought...muahahahaha

http://www.keysafetyinc.com/product_overview.asp

[LS6 Tommy]

Looks like a great concept, but if you're going to honor Mark Donohue, it's gotta be done in the Penske colors...

Tommy

[ProdigyCustoms]

We have made some big headway on Project Unfair. The rear suspension is in. We made wheel tubs using a Art Morrison wheel tub kit. We wanted a tub that did not curve at the top of the tub and wanted full travel to the top of the tub. We raised the tubs 1 1/2" also. We made the outer tub fit the quarter as tight as it could and gained some space where the factory outer wheelhouse bulges in a bit. We also welded a 1/4 rod all around the wheel opening moulding and when welded to the outer heel house will be very a very smooth edge SHOULD a tire ever get close to it.

All this is to clear our taller / wider 345 / 35 / 18 drag radials which are almost 28" tall! We pulled the wheels off Michael's Monte and mocked them up at ride height, pretty fricken sick height with complete suspension travel. What a difference 1 1/2" makes.

The sheetmetal is all screwed into place and fits excellent now. The door gap looks wide in this pic but it is a camera angle, the door gaps are actually very good. Trunk gaps need a little massage, but all in all I am very happy with the AMD stuff.

FYI, we weighed the AMD panels and a pair of Golden Legion panels. The AMD are 28 LBS, the Golden Legion are 18LBS! BIG difference and you can feel it to. When we welded the bead on the quarters we go little to no warpage!

We are getting a set of those 345 / 35 / 18 drag radials mounted on Michaels Monte wheels, so I will mock them up on Unfair before putting back on Michael's car and post pics later.

It is starting to look like a car and I am getting really excited now.

John will now get it for a couple months and start pre wiring, pre pumbing, Making headers / exhaust.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Cruise and race height!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Lots a room!

[Steve68]

Looks good, who cleaned the shop!

[ProdigyCustoms]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
Drag Radials, Yummy! I wish there was a good 345 / 35 / 18 road race tire. I sure do like the way this looks!

[Steve1968LS2]

Those look like my wheel tubs (done back when the car was on drag duty)

Coming along nicely!

[parsonsj]

Actually... they are exactly the same as the wheel tubs I used on II Much. 32" (rather than the 36" or 40" you typically see on drag cars) which really lets you push the tire into the body.

Morrison used to sell them, not sure if they still do. The ones you see had been on a shelf in my garage for 9 years -- I bought an extra set back in the days when I used to do everything 3 times, lol.

jp

[jimzilla]

The car is very cool, I'm also following it in the magazine. How are you planning to have full travel when the frame rail looks to be 3" from the center of the wheel? Is the ride height going to be higher than the picture? I hope not.

[XLexusTech]

The car is very cool, I'm also following it in the magazine. How are you planning to have full travel when the frame rail looks to be 3" from the center of the wheel? Is the ride height going to be higher than the picture? I hope not.

the frame is notched in the AME catalogs

[ProdigyCustoms]

The car is very cool, I'm also following it in the magazine. How are you planning to have full travel when the frame rail looks to be 3" from the center of the wheel? Is the ride height going to be higher than the picture? I hope not.

There is a frame notch, but also 3" is a lot of travel.

[PhillipM]

There is a frame notch, but also 3" is a lot of travel.

After many Power Tour's I am more of a 4.5" of travel kinda guy. But yeah, you can get away with 3.

[parsonsj]

We're talking about bump travel, not total travel. Bump travel of 3" is plenty. Most cars have about 2" of bump travel, and 3" of rebound travel for a total of 5" or so.

jp

[PhillipM]

We're talking about bump travel, not total travel. Bump travel of 3" is plenty. Most cars have about 2" of bump travel, and 3" of rebound travel for a total of 5" or so.

jp

I was talking about bump only as well. Most of our cars that have 3" of bump in the back are on the stops a lot on the back roads that Power Tour puts you on. Here in Arizona 3" is MORE than enough becuase our roads are about as smooth as you will find any where. Just personal preferance to build in a little extra room. I've found the ride to be noticible better.

[parsonsj]

Wow, that's a lot of suspension travel. 4.5" of bump travel implies 7 or 8" of total travel or so, right? What sort of shocks and spring rates do you run?

jp

[PhillipM]

Well on the back of our Olds we are running air bags and I believe Afco single adjustables. On the Studebaker they are 7" travel Koni coil overs.

As for the bags the spring rate obviously changes per the ride height. I have'nt gotten that far on the coilovers for the Studebaker. I have a few spring rates between 250 and 500 to test out. Guessing it will be in the 350-450 range? We'll see I guess. I should also mention that I have a 5/8" bump stop in there also so the true bump travel is right at 4 and the rebound is right at 3.

[parsonsj]

I ran 7" travel coilovers on II Much, but it was set up for about 2.5" of bump travel. I had a *lot* of ride height adjustability on that car.

The car is coming to me in a week or two... I'll post up what I find with the suspension travel.

jp

[ProdigyCustoms]

90% of the suspensions we sell use 17" shock with 14" ride height which leaves 3" compression and 2 5/8 extension. This is pretty much industry standard.

Project Prodigy has independant suspension and 19" long shocks with slightly more then 4" of compression but show no signs of ever compressing over 2 1/2".

[silver69camaro]

I was talking about bump only as well. Most of our cars that have 3" of bump in the back are on the stops a lot on the back roads that Power Tour puts you on.

That would indicate a pretty soft spring rate, at least by pro-touring ride quality standards.

[Wesley J]

I dont know the exact suspension detials of the cars you're refering to but one has to take into account shock geometry. A shock run at 30 degrees will show 3" of travel on the piston rod but real wheel travel wil be ~1/0.866 of that or 3.5". I know I'm splitting hairs here but as you compress a shock on an angle, the angle increases and actually amplifies the difference even more.

My $0.02

Wes

[PhillipM]

That would indicate a pretty soft spring rate, at least by pro-touring ride quality standards.

I hate to take up much more of this thread with this particular subject but I venture to say that our rear coilovers on that car are at too great of an angle. It has 500lb springs on it now on a C4 IRS system.

[Memphis]

What size tire will you run for the strip?

[ProdigyCustoms]

What size tire will you run for the strip?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
These are 345 / 35 / 18 Drag Radials

Viper and Vette guys are in the 8s on these so I think we will be OK

Forgeline is making us some one off 17 X 4 front skinny's.

[Memphis]

Correct me if I am wrong but they have done that with automatics. I haven't read the entire thread but from the last couple pages it seems you intend to run a stick? There aren't many cars running 18's in the 8's, I can't think of one stick car that has done that.

[ProdigyCustoms]

We have no experiance with these 18" drag radials. To gain experiance I am setting my street drag car up with a set od 18s to learn about them while we are working on Unfair. I run 15" slicks on the street racer and know what it can do within mili seconds.

Keep in mind we will have a few hundred horsepower in the bag. Also, none of those other cars have drag race 4 links either. If it takes a 15" slick, so be it.

[j-rho]

Drag Radials, Yummy! I wish there was a good 345 / 35 / 18 road race tire. I sure do like the way this looks!
Kumho v710, an awesome tire.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Kumho&tireModel=Ecsta+V710&sidewall=&partnum=435WR8EV710V2&tab=Specs

[ProdigyCustoms]

Oh I know but we will be using a 200 treadwear tire for our competitions on autocross and road coarse.

[j-rho]

Oh I know but we will be using a 200 treadwear tire for our competitions on autocross and road coarse.If you go to 19" in the rear, the PS2 is a good choice. The C1 compounds available in Viper sizes (345/30-19, about same height as 335/35-18) are very very good, the Viper that ran them in One Lap a couple years back dominated all the track sessions.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Michelin&tireModel=Pilot+Sport+PS2

[HOSTILETAKEOVER]

Frank,
I stopped by today and Unfair is looking great. Michael needs much recognition for his exceptional fab work.

Have you thought of getting a Trunk Monkey for the car?

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[ProdigyCustoms]

If you go to 19" in the rear, the PS2 is a good choice. The C1 compounds available in Viper sizes (345/30-19, about same height as 335/35-18) are very very good, the Viper that ran them in One Lap a couple years back dominated all the track sessions.


Ahh, the ACR tire. interesting, same sidewall as the 335 / 30 / 18 on a 18" rim. And the exact same 33LB weight as the 18! And the 19" rim is only 1/2LB heavier!

I ran the 345 / 19s on EmptyNest but they were not C1 compound. Could this be another Unfair Advantage? Hum!

[ProdigyCustoms]

Frank,
I stopped by today and Unfair is looking great. Michael needs much recognition for his exceptional fab work.


Shhh! Don't tell him, he will want a raise. LOL! Big leaps on Unfair last few weeks. Did he show you the patch work on the 55? You cannot find them if he does not tell you were they are! He really is getting awesome! I am pretty proud! Will come gets your Friday when i get back.

[j-rho]

Ahh, the ACR tire. interesting, same sidewall as the 335 / 30 / 18 on a 18" rim. And the exact same 33LB weight as the 18! And the 19" rim is only 1/2LB heavier!

I ran the 345 / 19s on EmptyNest but they were not C1 compound. Could this be another Unfair Advantage? Hum!

The ACR comes equipped with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tire, which is closer to an r-compound with an 80 treadwear rating. The C1 spec PS2 is the OEM tire on all regular (non-ACR) 2008+ Vipers.
There were some rumors floating around during One Lap, that the C1 spec PS2s were actually the sticky Pilot Sport Cup rubber molded as a regular PS2. Those rumors were never substantiated to my own satisfaction, but the mystery (and possibility) remains.

[parsonsj]

There were some rumors floating around during One Lap, that the C1 spec PS2s were actually the sticky Pilot Sport Cup rubber molded as a regular PS2.Shocking!

[PhillipM]

There were some rumors floating around during One Lap, that the C1 spec PS2s were actually the sticky Pilot Sport Cup rubber molded as a regular PS2.

Man that would be super secret for sure! I totally need a set of those :)

[Ron S]

My buddy Frank just ran 9.3 with a 6.0 iron blocked 408 in a 63 Chevy II. That was spinning its ass off,on its first try. I will bet he will pull a 8.99 before it is all said and done. Thats on leaf springs with Caltracs. Cool little car, your goals are definitely doable, should be fun watching it develop.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[ProdigyCustoms]

Pretty cool Ron, Leaf springs and Cal Tracs make a great drag race suspension that will hook on a dirt road. Sounds like once he gets it hooked up it should run the numbers.

[ProdigyCustoms]

So we made some real progress. I just proofed the sheetmetal story (article 4). The AMD panels went on really well and are easily worth the extra pennies.

After Michael welded up the body we had Bob work on the roof to quarter seems, wheel lips (We beaded the wheel lips) and smooth the drip rails. The drip rails are only roughed in, but for roughed in drip rails they look pretty damn good.

So this weekend I will do some sheetmetal closeout work on the rear suspension, finish the driveshaft tunnel, get it off the jig, install the subframe and throw some rollers on it. And then send it to John for the pre wire and pre plumb. John is excited to get to work on it and I am excited he gets to work on it, LOL!

Enjoy

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[PhillipM]

Hey Frank I haven't seen anything concerning a cage yet... What are the plans there?

[ProdigyCustoms]

Who needs a cage? LOL! We decided to do that after John is through crawling around the interior doing his 100 nutserts

[parsonsj]

We decided to do that after John is through crawling around the interior doing his 100 nutsertsLOL, damn right. I ain't young or skinny anymore.

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70983

and

https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71130

[Greg from Aus]

Coming along great guys, Hey Frank 3 more days and my AMD stuff should be here and mine can commence.

Greg

[jr2226nhra]

wow looks looks good with primer. a step forward from last sat

[PhillipM]

We decided to do that after John is through crawling around the interior doing his 100 nutserts

Good Call on that.

[Bow Tie 67]

Holley LS Fest!!!!! get cracking..

[ProdigyCustoms]

Holley LS Fest!!!!! get cracking..

LS Fest is a great goal...............2011


We were busy this weekend, moving along pretty well. We got the rear firewall done and 4 link closeout in. We will build block off plates for the rear inner quarters to seal the passenger compartment from the trunk as tight as we can. We want to be sure if we back it into wall we have time to get out!

If you read the Firewall story in Super Chevy, you saw we are moving the seat back 4" which with the driver in the car makes a 1% front to rear weight balance difference which is a lot when your easing down to a 50 / 50 balance. One negative about moving the seat back 4" is a pet peeve John and I share which is a LONG steering column sticking out of a dash. We really want car to recognizable as a Camaro, hence the limited body mods and a stock dash is required, but since we are moving the seat back 4 inches, we would end up with that dreaded Funny Car steering column. So Michael spiced 4 inches into the dash top to move the dash back with the seat. Then IDidIt will make us a column with extra length under the dash, and the column will sit flush against the dash as it should. Michael was tacking in dash when I left today, but you really have to look at it to notice it has been done. I love it. I will get some pics of the dash installed in the car tomorrow.

So now if we can finish the tunnel, it can go to Johns!

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[PhillipM]

Can't wait to see that dash finished up.

[bonecrrusher]

Nice......

[Chevrolaine]

I'm lovin it....:smoke:

[Jim85IROC]

just out of curiosity (maybe I missed it somewhere in this thread), what sheet metal is actually still in use from the original rusted shell posted way back on page 1?