NASA-SE Open Vintage Class

[ho428]

If possible I'd like the admin to consider this for a sticky in the race section.


Attached is our Mission Statement and Rules for a new Vintage class in NASA-SE.
We are spreading the word for this new class and putting out a call to builders and owners of older race cars that do not want to adhere to period correct rules but need a class in which to compete against like year cars.
The PT crowd is just such a group.



Mission Statement

NASA-SE is opening a new race class beginning in 2010, this class is called Open Vintage and is an open class.

It is meant to give racers of older cars a class in which to compete against like year and similar technology based cars.
Vehicles allowed are 1975 and older, foreign or domestic production based cars.

It is the intent of this class to promote the spirit of competition for Vintage car racers as was the case when these cars were the technology leaders of their time.

It is also the intent of the rules to allow modifications to the cars so owners and drivers are not confined by strict period correct build rules. This is to allow personalization as well as to control cost by allowing more common and easier to acquire parts.

The class is broken down into five power to weight ratio classes, V1- V5. The upper and lower are for extremes as most cars should fall into the V2, V3, and V4 classes.
This race class will compete in the Thunder race group.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------



2010 NASA-SE Open Vintage Class Rules


1. General Rules and Safety
All cars, drivers, and entrants will be subject to the NASA Club Codes and Regulations.
Specifically the Technical Requirements, Required Safety Equipment, Vehicle Safety
Inspection, Vehicle Legality Inspection, and General Competition Vehicle Rules sections
(NASA CCR Sections 12-18). These sections cover rules for safety equipment,
including full roll cages, window nets, belts, extinguishers, as well as appearance and
other items. All cars must have a NASA vehicle log book and all drivers must have a
current NASA competition license.


2. Car Eligibility
Any 1975 or older production vehicle of any manufacture, foreign or domestic meeting NASA CCR standards for competition is eligible for Vintage Class competition.
Competitors wishing an exemption to the above list can contact the NASA-SE regional
Director or Vintage Class official.
Upon issuance of exemption, a signed allowance must be attached to the log book.


3. Classification
There are 5 classes for Vintage: V-1, V-2, V-3, V-4 and V5
All cars will be classed on a power to weight ratio. A vehicle's classification and minimum
allowable weight (as the car would exit the track with the driver) will be determined by
dividing the vehicles weight by the vehicle's power.

"Power," as used here, will be determined from a minimum of three consecutive chassis dyno pulls, and shall be defined as:
a) The horsepower value at the drive wheels from the single run with the highest horsepower reading (for cars with higher horsepower than ft/lbs torque); or
b) The average of horsepower and torque from the single run with the highest average of those values (for cars with higher torque than horsepower):

The following table shall be used to determine each car’s class based on the calculations using the above methods.

V-5 __ 6.49 – Lower
V-4 __ 6.50 – 8.49
V-3 __ 8.50 – 10.49
V-2 __10.50 – 12.49
V-1 __12.50 - Higher


4. Car Modifications
Any modification to the car is allowed subject to the following restrictions.
For all Vintage class cars, the engine and the chassis must be of the same marquee. (e.g. a Porsche may use any Porsche engine, GM in any GM, Ford in any Ford,) it does not need to be year correct. (e.g. modern LS engine in a 1968 GM is acceptable) For the purposes of these rules, the engine is defined as the block, aftermarket heads are allowed. Aluminum blocks are allowed. Aftermarket blocks must be based off OEM designs. (e.g. factory bore spacing)
Swapping engines between different chassis made by the samemanufacturer is allowed, but swapping engines of a marquee different than the chassismanufacturer is specifically not allowed. (e.g. A Nissan engine in a Datsun is acceptable, a GM engine in a Datsun is not)

Tube frame cars will be bumped into the next higher class. “Tube frame” is defined as any car that does not retain the manufacturer’s stock unit body or chassis, or is a purpose built or factory built tube framed car.
Modification of suspension components and drive train mounting points alone does not constitute a tube frame. (e.g. tubular front A-arms does not constitute a tube frame)

Any DOT or non DOT Tire and Rim package is acceptable. Tires must not extend beyond the body side line. Body side flares are allowed.

Any Brake Package is allowed, OEM or Aftermarket.

Fiberglass replacement body panels are allowed. (e.g. Hoods, trunk lids, bumpers, fenders and doors.)

5. Engine Power Testing/Protest Procedure
Competitors must produce a dynamometer certification from the last 12 months and
dynamometer certification form upon demand and should keep copies of both with their
vehicle logbook. Yearly re-certification is required.
Any competitor without a dynamometer certification will be placed into V-5 until they can produce a certification. A competitor must re-certify their car if any changes have been made since the last certification run. Competitors may use any brand of dyno for certification.
To allow a small safety margin for dyno variance, a forgiveness of 4WHP will be given
to cars with WHP greater than WTQ and a -4 factor will be applied to the formula for
cars using the averaging method for WTQ greater than WHP. However, if a car does not
meet the minimum weight listed on the certification sheet, the forgiveness cannot be used
to arrive at a compliant number.

Protest procedures will be handled per the NASA CCR with the exception that a protest
requiring a dyno run must be accompanied by a bond from the protestor in the amount of
the cost of a dyno run. The losing party of the protest will be required to pay for the run,
so if the protest is upheld the protestor shall have their funds returned and the protestee
will be required to pay for the run.


6. Car Markings
6.1. Vintage Car Classification Identification
All cars shall display the Vintage logo on both sides of the car and on the rear. The logo must be in a contrasting color than the vehicle’s color scheme and should be a minimum of 3” high.
The logo can be incorporated with other markings (e.g. number plate) so long as the class logo remains easily identifiable.


6.2. Car Numbers
All cars shall display their car number in accordance with the CCR.

7. Scoring
Scoring shall be done per the NASA CCR. The SE Regional Director may elect to allow
competitors to drop a certain percentage of events and will alert competitors to the drop
amount prior to the beginning of the season.

8. Punitive action
Should a Vintage class car be found non-rules compliant a sliding scale from minor to major will be used by the Series and Race director to assess penalties. A major infraction can result in suspension from Vintage class competition. (e.g. incorrect dyno certification)

All race points fall under the NASA-SE division as this is not a Nationally Sanctioned Class.

[parsonsj]

ho,

Can you describe how a competition with one of these cars would work?

Got any video or pictures from similar classes from last year?

thanks,

jp

[parsonsj]

Also, before we'd consider making it a sticky, you'll need to change your signature to include your name. See this thread (https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50566) for more information.

[ho428]

Not sure what your question is about running these cars.

This is a competition race class. Cars must be built to NASA CCR rules for class racing. CCR Comp requirements start at page 47 http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

We run this class in the Thunder race group which has anywhere from 40-60 cars depending on the track and event. 40 minute races. Quite a few classes within the race group, from American Iron to GTS.

The reason for posting this on the PT site is the types of car builds and technology used in PT is not legal for most vintage class racing yet many people have expressed interest in racing the older cars using modern technology. However, most sanctioning bodies for older race cars require period correct builds. This Open Vintage class allows you to use the modern technology.

[wicked68]

the non removable double bars on the drivers side are going to be a pain in the butt for guys that want to have street driven cars as well. I cant imagine trying to climb in and out every time.

single bar removeable is fine- but double non removeable is a pain.

[Gitter Dun]

Very Nice, I have been thinking of away to make this happen and it looks like your headed full steam in the right direction. If there is anything I could do to help please let me know. I ran NASA Time Trials for 3 years and know a few people To talk to for Nor Cal NASA. I think you might have to go through Greg Greenbaum, he's in the south and I believe the lead director for time trials north and south. Anyhow, anything I could do to help, let me know. Keep in mind NCRC might be another option although I did not see Infineon on their schedule this year, they due go to Laguna, Buttonwillow, and Thunderhill.

[ho428]

the non removable double bars on the drivers side are going to be a pain in the butt for guys that want to have street driven cars as well. I cant imagine trying to climb in and out every time.

single bar removeable is fine- but double non removeable is a pain.

If you also want to street drive your car I'd suggest running it in NASA DE or Time Trialing and not the race group.

I honestly don't think I've seen a single street legal car in the race groups. I'm sure there might be some that could be with a little work, but most of the race group cars are race only.

This car is an example of a guy that had an awesome street car, but couldn't exploit it's potential on the street, yet is was not legal for vintage racing due to his modern performance parts modifications.
So he ran it in DE last year and is now moving into full competition with it this year in this new class with some safety modifications.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/100_3369R-1.jpg

[parsonsj]

OK, so we're talking about 40-60 cars on the track at the same time, passing just like you see on TV. I think I understand what you're talking about, but a video or some photos of what you're talking about would be helpful.

I think most members who take their car to the track think in terms of HPDEs... not racing. I'm just trying to clarify all that (not for me... for the readers of the stickied thread).

thanks!

jp

[Gitter Dun]

OK, so we're talking about 40-60 cars on the track at the same time, passing just like you see on TV. I think I understand what you're talking about, but a video or some photos of what you're talking about would be helpful.

I think most members who take their car to the track think in terms of HPDEs... not racing. I'm just trying to clarify all that (not for me... for the readers of the stickied thread).

thanks!

jp

I was hoping it was going to be more of a Time Trial thing. I dont feel like trading paint for position!!

[Gitter Dun]

Another thing that I have just noticed is that you are on the east coast. Will you be talking to anybody on the west coast. Also, I dont believe NASA has an SE or DE class on the west coast. Either way, if your not going to do anything for the west coast, can you help me with logistics such as a proposal I can use to give to the NASA director out here?

[wicked68]

If you also want to street drive your car I'd suggest running it in NASA DE or Time Trialing and not the race group.

I honestly don't think I've seen a single street legal car in the race groups. I'm sure there might be some that could be with a little work, but most of the race group cars are race only.

This car is an example of a guy that had an awesome street car, but couldn't exploit it's potential on the street, yet is was not legal for vintage racing due to his modern performance parts modifications.
So he ran it in DE last year and is now moving into full competition with it this year in this new class with some safety modifications.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/04/100_3369R-1.jpg


got it. do you need a race license to do time trialing and de events? I assume not - can you also do those events without a double door bar and window net? I have everything else.

[ho428]

DE and TT require only a Helmet, good seat belts and your car be in good mechanical condition.
You must start out in DE-1 though. This will get you classroom sessions and an in car instructor to ride along with you to get you started.
After running DE-1 they will sign you off for DE-2 which is solo. DE 1-2 is passing only on the straights with a point by from the car you are passing, or you point by the faster car behind you.

You can then move into DE-3 which is passing anywhere with a point by. After that you can get signed into TT if you want which is passing anywhere, point by advised. Some people just stay in DE though.
DE's are the safest sessions you can run, TT gets a bit more aggressive due to the high speed high performance cars out there trying for that perfect fast lap. You get awards in TT, not in DE.

Car to car contact is extremely rare in DE and TT. In fact it's pretty rare in the race groups.

[wicked68]

DE and TT require only a Helmet, good seat belts and your car be in good mechanical condition.
You must start out in DE-1 though. This will get you classroom sessions and an in car instructor to ride along with you to get you started.
After running DE-1 they will sign you off for DE-2 which is solo. DE 1-2 is passing only on the straights with a point by from the car you are passing, or you point by the faster car behind you.

You can then move into DE-3 which is passing anywhere with a point by. After that you can get signed into TT if you want which is passing anywhere, point by advised. Some people just stay in DE though.
DE's are the safest sessions you can run, TT gets a bit more aggressive due to the high speed high performance cars out there trying for that perfect fast lap. You get awards in TT, not in DE.

Car to car contact is extremely rare in DE and TT. In fact it's pretty rare in the race groups.
if you hvae already been through skip barber 3 day racing course can you skip de1 ? seems like a waste of time to go back.

[79-TA]

if you hvae already been through skip barber 3 day racing course can you skip de1 ? seems like a waste of time to go back.


DE 1 and 2 are generally run at the same time and get just as much track time as DE 3 and 4 (you get a talking to and then go on track. They don't have you perform downshifting drills etc). It is worth it to have the instructor with you just for the sake of learning the track more quickly. Before they let you run DE3, you'll need to have proved to someone with some authority that you can be trusted with the relaxed passing rules. Just sign up for HPDE 1 and see how it goes.

[rrunner68]

WOW.. I need to get full steam on my Satelite Project. This is EXACTLY what I want to do. I guess I better order a rulebook.

[ho428]

if you hvae already been through skip barber 3 day racing course can you skip de1 ? seems like a waste of time to go back.

There was one guy I heard about that used to have a comp license in some other sanction but let it lapse a few years so he signed up for NASA DE-1. By the 3rd track session they'd already signed him through DE-3 and into TT for the rest of the weekend.

If you don't have a valid comp license but did the Barber gig I'm pretty sure they'll move you up very quickly.

[parsonsj]

I've stuck the thread for a while. I think NASA has a lot to offer us PT guys.

Thanks Gordon.

jp

[parsonsj]

I've been through 5 days of Ron Fellows at Spring Mountain, so I hope I move quickly too. But I'll take my medicine... I want some independent verification of my "skillz".

jp

[70camaro406]

WOW.. I need to get full steam on my Satelite Project. This is EXACTLY what I want to do. I guess I better order a rulebook.

Same here...I need to get the Camaro project rolling...this mowing grass stuff is going to have to wait! lol j/k

[79-TA]

There was one guy I heard about that used to have a comp license in some other sanction but let it lapse a few years so he signed up for NASA DE-1. By the 3rd track session they'd already signed him through DE-3 and into TT for the rest of the weekend.

If you don't have a valid comp license but did the Barber gig I'm pretty sure they'll move you up very quickly.

That's a very good point as well. During my last track day, a guy in my run group was moved from DE2 to DE3 midday. All he had to do was request it and then during his next session, an instructor drove a chase car to watch how he handled things.

I still recommend signing up for DE1 and then if you need to move up, just ask. The instruction is still very valuable.

[JEFFTATE]

Wow , this is awesome !!
I would probably stay in DE for a while.
Maybe move to TT later ..

How much is NASA membership ??
And how much is DE or HPDE ???

I have a friend / customer that runs a 2001 Z06 in HPDE ( currently ).
He says it's a blast ..
He's really pushing me to join.
He even said something about new members getting the first HPDE Session free ???
Is that true ???
FREE ???

[ho428]

Here is the link. http://nasa-se.com/

Use the left side bar to get info on HPDE, called DE for short.
For costs click the right side event you're interested in and click into registration, that will show you the cost. The costs do vary per track. Tracks like CMP are less than Road Atlanta.

The first event free promo filled up quick and ended. But they do have a $100 off your first event promo code you can get from them by emailing or calling them.
Use the contact section for that info.

[NOT A TA]

Jeff, (or folks browsing) it's 45 bucks a year and includes a subscription to Grassroots Motorsports magazine (very good mag!). I've seen postings the past couple years for a deeply discounted HPDE day (once a year maybe) up in the mid atlantic area somewhere (VIR?). The NASA Southeast folks that run the events near you at Road Atlanta are very nice, and their HPDE 1 groups were run very well when I attended them there (4 days). Their classroom training was excellent and the "in car" instructors I had were very good.

[JEFFTATE]

I'm stoked , thanks guys !!

[ho428]

The June Jam at Road Atlanta is our first offical race with the new Vintage class.

If at all possible we would like for as many of you to come out and help get this new class going. We feel it should become a popular class for those with period correct cars as well as those with modified cars.
We have found lap times are very similar no matter how the car is built.

NASA-SE puts on a great event, come out and join us at Road Atlanta at the June Jam. http://nasa-se.com/2010Jun18.php

With a valid comp license and your car meeting NASA safety and CCR specs you will be able to race.

But even you if do not have a car to race come out and support the cause, perhaps enter your car in the HPDE sessions and enjoy a NASA event at Road Atlanta. HPDE is not parade laps, you will get to drive your cars at speed on a Historic race track. Roughly an hour of track time each day.

Or just come watch and hang out, they're a great group to be around.
Another way to get involved is to volunteer, NASA has a program to accrue track time by working the events, you get to learn the NASA system and work your way into a free event.

Contact me if you have any questions.

Gordon Slingerland
NASA-SE Vintage Class director

[JEFFTATE]

Thanks Gordon !

So , it's June 18th-19th-and 20th ??
Do they run HPDE and the Open Vintage Class all three days ??
Or only certain days ???
The schedule only lists HPDE1 on Saturday and Sunday , and "American Iron Vintage" on Saturday and Sunday.
Are they calling the Open Vintage class "American Iron Vintage " ?
Is there any racing on Friday ?? ( Just Checking )

And if someone wants to run , they have to register and pay in advance ,
They can't just show up, register ,then pay and go racing the day of the event ??? Right ??

Is there an entry fee for spectators ???
I don't see it on the event page ..
Are spectators free ??

I'm just asking all these questions in case someone wants to know ...

[ho428]

So , it's June 18th-19th-and 20th ?? Yes, all three days.

Do they run HPDE and the Open Vintage Class all three days ??
Or only certain days ??? DE 3-4, Test and Tune, comp school and Enduro race is on Friday. Enduro starts a 3:00

The schedule only lists HPDE1 on Saturday and Sunday , Correct, HPDE 1-2 Sat-Sun only
and "American Iron Vintage" on Saturday and Sunday. All races are run Sat-Sun except the Enduro. The Saturday racing Awards banquet is Saturday night, everyone is welcome including all DE. Free BBQ.

Are they calling the Open Vintage class "American Iron Vintage " ? Yes, we are under the American Iron Vintage Classification until we get the class settled in.
Is there any racing on Friday ?? Mock race for comp school students, always fun to watch, and the Enduro race from 3:00-6:00

And if someone wants to run , they have to register and pay in advance , Definitely, HPDE fills up real fast at RA.
If you have not run with NASA before you should register for HPDE-1, or contact them if you have experience from other sanctions.

They can't just show up, register ,then pay and go racing the day of the event ??? Right ?? Racing usually has openings on race weekend, but most register early. You must have a valid competition license to race.

HPDE will have a waiting list if you do not register early.
It is extremely doubtful you'll get a DE spot within 2 weeks of the event. It's that popular.

Is there an entry fee for spectators ??? I think it's only $10

Hope to see you there.

[parsonsj]

I'm going to my first NASA HPDE on June 18th at Sebring.

Can't wait!

jp

[Steve Chryssos]

When is the second race? June 18-20 coincides with our Motor State Challenge event at Gingerman in South Haven MI.
/Steve

[parsonsj]

Here's the Sebring info:

http://drivenasafl.com/speed/content/sebring-international-raceway-sebring-fl

[Gitter Dun]

Man, I am jealous. You guya are going to have a great time!! I started my first DE in 2002 and worked my way into time trials by 2003. There is alot of fun to be had, but learn your equipment.

One major safety advise I have, Torque your lugs each and every time you go out on the track.

For tuning, pick up an air tank and a good tire pressure gauge so that you could tune tires for grip to your liking.

My tire pressures raised 6 lbs after each track sessions so if I wanted 37 lbs I'd adjust tire pressure to 31 lbs cold.

Have fun you lucky Ba@#$%^&!!

[ho428]

Got our most recent News letter, I noticed a $50 off coupon for your next event if you enter the the Savannah Sizzler at Roebling Road in Savannah GA, just stop by the NASA trailer on Sunday.
Roebling is a good track for HPDE, nice long sweepers and a long straight to open it up.
But also notice, they says Road Atlanta usually fills up, and it does. Live band, vendors, should be a great event.

http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001i_oc2EXSXOtBV8bvozrwfwkvlsBoaBQdH2Fvzj A4EZYieY5FjL7Sd3IbS1DScMKsDzjX6vaG_q3zOoRl5yjm2XgM 92DNpmroZCuOfDtJ622fd9EpQWKFVexlJ_nYKqfra7mJeuWG95 8oX9eUzSO5eN0wX-sJHZUxXb5UdAsjjns4VWCG-trlCps-NWDXdREl-V_xVrcUzwxJVbU3W5OS2X2v-l4kK1QQjv72WSmiYrX8LFbXN4qQY1hQk0m6yiSsdOqjmo0o72k %3D

Link to RRR http://www.roeblingroad.com/trackarial.html

Hope to see some of you out at these events.

[protouring70]

Hey Steve is this the event in Savannah that you were wanting people to come to? I remembered something from the Mitty you were talking about.

[Steve Chryssos]

No, A lot of us will be at Gingerman that weekend. I wish the timing were different. So let's look further out: We should put our heads together and pick an HPDE date that works for us all. We don't all need to be at the same HPDE weekend at the same time, but it would be nice.

Go to the NASA South East website and check out the schedule. I see an October event at

http://nasa-se.com/

The NASA SE director will be here at my office in the next few days. I look forward to meeting and speaking with him.

Right now, the October Road Atlanta event looks best for me. It's far enough away that we can all clear our schedules. Anyone else wanna learn how to drive? We all have, or are building bad ass cars. Let's get some skills. You DO NOT need to have your pro touring car done to attend HPDE. Just a helmet and a safe daily driver.

[vintageracer]

I was hoping it was going to be more of a Time Trial thing. I dont feel like trading paint for position!!


You only "trade paint" when you run over somebody or somebody runs over you!

Maybe the "Vintage Spirit" that is in Vintage racing will follow this class.

In 12 years of Vintage racing the only things I have torn up are mechanical items and there has been a BUNCH of that!

Just like anything else if you run up front the chances of "tradin paint" are a greater. Sounds like a neat class and concept!

[ho428]

It's time for the June Jam at Road Atlanta.

I hope some of you have registered, but even if you haven't you should come by and check out a NASA event to see what we're all about.


http://nasa-se.com/2010Jun18.php

[wicked68]

It's time for the June Jam at Road Atlanta.

I hope some of you have registered, but even if you haven't you should come by and check out a NASA event to see what we're all about.


http://nasa-se.com/2010Jun18.php


ah crap - I just saw this and its all full

[ho428]

Two events coming up you may want to sign up for.

August Hotlanta Challenge will run all classes including HPDE at Road Atlanta. You'll get the full NASA experience at this one.
http://nasa-se.com/2010Aug06.php

September NCCAR event is an HPDE only, tons of track time. Perfect for first timers.
http://nasa-se.com/2010Sep25.php

Register early to guarantee a spot.

[wicked68]

Two events coming up you may want to sign up for.

August Hotlanta Challenge will run all classes including HPDE at Road Atlanta. You'll get the full NASA experience at this one.
http://nasa-se.com/2010Aug06.php

September NCCAR event is an HPDE only, tons of track time. Perfect for first timers.
http://nasa-se.com/2010Sep25.php

Register early to guarantee a spot.

I signed up for the hotlanta challenge

[ho428]

Cool.
We'll see you there.

[wicked68]

Cool.
We'll see you there.


Was up there and ran in HPDE1 today. Great day - extremely well organized and a lot of great people.

I must say that even though I could not take the mustang since the input shaft we were sent was too long - I did take my dads Z06 and was the fastest in my class so they promoted me to 2.

I lapped almost every car at least once and some twice in the 20 minute sessions. There were 2 guys I did not lap but I did pass everyone.

There was a souped up RX8 there that was good in the corners with me but the HAMMER crushed him on the straights - the Z06 was just too much power for the mazda to keep up.

I am very impressed with that car the more I drive it - its quite a machine.

Now tomorrow may be a different story with some better drivers and faster cars.

[ho428]

Guys, if you want the most track time of any NASA HPDE event in the Southeast this is the one you should go to.
It is an HPDE event only, so tons of track time.

http://nasa-se.com/2010Sep25.php

[wicked68]

Guys, if you want the most track time of any NASA HPDE event in the Southeast this is the one you should go to.
It is an HPDE event only, so tons of track time.

http://nasa-se.com/2010Sep25.php


Gordon - I asked around for you at RA this weekend but no one on the nasa staff had seen you. did you make it out?

[ho428]

Gordon - I asked around for you at RA this weekend but no one on the nasa staff had seen you. did you make it out?

I had to cancel at the last minute due to a death in the family.

I'll probably go run VIR, Roebling or CMP soon to get my fix since the next SE Race isn't until November.

[wicked68]

I had to cancel at the last minute due to a death in the family.

I'll probably go run VIR, Roebling or CMP soon to get my fix since the next SE Race isn't until November.

sorry to hear that.

[Mike Holleman]

Guys, I just got home from my second Nasa weekend. I did VIR in July and the new NC CAR this weekend. I highly recommend this experience to anybody that likes to drive fast. This weekend I was in DE2. Solo. What a kick in the pants. My next event I will be in DE3. That's where it starts to get interesting as in DE3 it is pass anywhere. Now your sharing lines with the other drivers. The head instructor asked me did I not have a car that is not so nice for DE3?
He is worried about my wadding the Elky up. By all means, get out to a NASA event soon and have the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on.
Mike Holleman

[wicked68]

Guys, I just got home from my second Nasa weekend. I did VIR in July and the new NC CAR this weekend. I highly recommend this experience to anybody that likes to drive fast. This weekend I was in DE2. Solo. What a kick in the pants. My next event I will be in DE3. That's where it starts to get interesting as in DE3 it is pass anywhere. Now your sharing lines with the other drivers. The head instructor asked me did I not have a car that is not so nice for DE3?
He is worried about my wadding the Elky up. By all means, get out to a NASA event soon and have the most fun you can have in a car with your clothes on.
Mike Holleman

I am coming back up to nc in november - are you coming to atl in december? I will be there.

[Mike Holleman]

I am coming back up to nc in november - are you coming to atl in december? I will be there.
Seriously considering it. I have a HPDE at VIR the weekend before.(asphault ventures) What is the event in NC in Nov?
Mike

[wicked68]

Seriously considering it. I have a HPDE at VIR the weekend before.(asphault ventures) What is the event in NC in Nov?
Mike


sorry - its in camden sc at cmp

[Mike Holleman]

sorry - its in camden sc at cmp
Yeah, CMP is in that other Carolina.lol
I may make that event. It was suggested as a good track for my first run in DE 3.

[ho428]

I was reading my latest Grassroots Motorsports Magazine last night, on the last page it had a promo for the upcoming issue, an article about Pro-touring. Looks like a few of you guys cars that hang around here.
Looking forward to reading it when it comes out.

But... some of you PT guys really need to build a full on race car and run with us in NASA-SE Vintage. You can use all your PT parts and tricks, no period correct rules, only needs to be an older car and race legal.

You can run your street cars in HPDE and TT but full on wheel to wheel competition against other cars is something to consider as well.

[Mike Holleman]

I was reading my latest Grassroots Motorsports Magazine last night, on the last page it had a promo for the upcoming issue, an article about Pro-touring. Looks like a few of you guys cars that hang around here.
Looking forward to reading it when it comes out.

But... some of you PT guys really need to build a full on race car and run with us in NASA-SE Vintage. You can use all your PT parts and tricks, no period correct rules, only needs to be an older car and race legal.

You can run your street cars in HPDE and TT but full on wheel to wheel competition against other cars is something to consider as well.
Gordon, I am building a car for NASA racing. AIX and interested in the Vintage class also. You know my buddy Darrell George? He is running a GT350 in vintage. It is real fast but needs some better brakes. He got his comp. license at the NC CAR event. Nice guy and a real nice car.
My Elky will see TT and HPDE but not door to door. My AIX car is a 4th gen Fbody. Something I can beat on.
Mike

[ho428]

Darrell told me he saw you at NCCAR. Yup, he's upgrading his brakes already.
Hope to see you at an NASA event soon.

[Mike Holleman]

Darrell told me he saw you at NCCAR. Yup, he's upgrading his brakes already.
Hope to see you at an NASA event soon.
He'll be hard to guard with good brakes. Has he had any luck finding the fuel issue? I will try to make CMP. It is less than a week after Maxton and it takes a couple of days to get the Elky from measured mile to a road course setup. Look forward to meeting you Gordon.
Mike

[ho428]

Darrell actually built a little to much engine, he'll be classed up one from me. Still going to race him hard though.

CMP is going to be iffy, I was there testing a couple of weekends ago and found sparklie's in the oil. Tore the engine down Saturday, found the inner valve springs are dancing around and rubbed the seals almost all the way through. Filings scored the crank.
Crank won't be back until sometime next week, heads will go back togther this weekend, then it'll be a mad thrash to make CMP.

Should make it but... :fingersx:

[Mike Holleman]

Darrell actually built a little to much engine, he'll be classed up one from me. Still going to race him hard though.

CMP is going to be iffy, I was there testing a couple of weekends ago and found sparklie's in the oil. Tore the engine down Saturday, found the inner valve springs are dancing around and rubbed the seals almost all the way through. Filings scored the crank.
Crank won't be back until sometime next week, heads will go back togther this weekend, then it'll be a mad thrash to make CMP.

Should make it but... :fingersx:
Good luck with the engine. I'm adding an Accusump before then. Posters on here are scaring me to death about LS motors losing oil press. under hard lateral G's. I have not seen it yet and I'm pulling serious G's with the NT01s. Better safe than sorry.

[ho428]

Next season should be a good one for Vintage racing in the Southeast. Hope to see some of you there.
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/flyer4R-1.jpg

Season ender was at Road Atlanta last weekend. :)

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/12/100_4074R-1.jpg

[wicked68]

congrats!

[showa]

Great job Gordon..... Do you have a 2011 schedule somewhere yet ??? I might be back in that part of the country sometime this year. Would like to take in a race...

[ho428]

Guys,

I haven't posted in here for quite awhile but lately I've been getting a lot of inquiries from guys with PT cars so I thought I should reply.
NASA Outlaw Vintage Racing is real racing, 40 minutes of all out wheel to wheel races with 40 other race cars if various classes, this is not "point by" track time. What it is though, is the most fun you'll ever have in a car, but it is not a place for street cars. NASA has other classifications for that.

A lot of the PT build aspects do cross over well to race cars, especially in the suspension and brake areas, and the OVR class rules allows for about any modification to be done to about any car, so some outragous builds can be done and run within our race series rules. An example is the 600+ hp LS7 powered Datsun 240Z driven by Matt Isbell.
I am the series director and the link to our new website, which includes the rules, is in my signature, please ask any questions you may have and I'll try my best to answer them.

We would like to get even more cars involved in our race series for next season and our 2013 schedule is also on the website.
At present we are only running this class in the Southeast Region, if you would like NASA to add it to your region contact the regional director and inquire, copy me if you like and I'll try to help if I can.

Thanks,

[Flash68]

Man that would be a killer series out here on the left coast. Any chance?

What kinda cars are you looking at for V1 up to V4 as far as more examples?

[Payton King]

...and just think, all of those tracks are in my backyard.

[ho428]

Flash:
In V1 we've had the LS Datsun as well as an ex SCCA 65 Mustang that was basically a tube frame flared out fiberglassed monster, also an ex SCCA 914 that is wicked fast, a V8 tube frame Corvair is coming in 2013. V1 is unlimited, anything goes. Build accordingly, but you'll need the Kahuna's to back it up.

V2 is probably the most popular, 60's Mustangs, 60-70's F bodies, 70's-80's Vettes and F's, Fox bodies, 911's, FFR Cobras. Little bit of everything has run in it. Easiest class to build for if you want a modified car with power. All the PT suspension and brake upgrades apply, and any engine and trans combo is allowed.

V3 would be a more entry level with lower HP, about any modification is allowed but lighter on the HP, I started out in V3, upgrading the suspension as well as improving my driving until I installed a 500 hp engine and moved to V2.
V2 and V3 also works well with the older CMC and AI cars that have been pushed out by the more modern cars. And our Homologating rules allow, for example, a 1992 Camaro to be run since it's basically the same as a 1982. But any 30 year old car, foreign or domestic can run. Stuff like LS powered 944's are legal as well.

V4 is meant for smaller cars. MG's, Datsuns, but any car with low hp and a high HP to Wt ratio can run in it.

Contact your regional director and inquire, we'd like to build up the series enough to go national.

-------------------
PK,
Come check us out in 2013, we'll run from VIR to CMP to Road Atlanta and possibly get down to Barber next season.
We had several guys bring their PT street cars and run them in HPDE or Hyperdrive, the Hyperdrive program is a great way to get on track once or twice.

But, we'd really like to build up the race classes. A race series of Vintage cars with modern upgrades is something new and unique. No having to compete against 2012 cars with it's modern technology that runs in other classes; and no period correctness to build for, thus the race series name: "Outlaw-Vintage-Racing"

[Flash68]

Thanks Gordon for the info. Sounds like it'd be V2 for me if it was available out here. I do need to get my comp license though... it is on my list in the coming year or two.

I check out NasaForums once in awhile so I will contact the Reg Dir there.

Thanks again

[ho428]

Here is our Outlaw Vintage Race schedule for 2013.

Feb 9-10, Carolina (CMP)
Mar 8-9-10, Road Atlanta
Apr 13-14, Roebling
May 18-19, Carolina(CMP)
Jun 14-15-16, Road Atlanta
Aug 3-4, Road Atlanta
Sep 13-14-15, Road Atlanta
Oct 11-13, VIR
Nov 2-3, Carolina (CMP)
Dec 6-7-8, Road Atlanta

Even if you're not ready for racing you can bring your cars out for NASA-SE Hyperdrive or HPDE.

[protouring70]

Hey I can't wait. I live 5 minutes from Road Atl.

[Beach Cruiser]

Doubt I'll have my comp license by Oct VIR event, but the car will be ready and I'll be either in Comp school or DE3 still! Going to VIR in July to shakedown the car there. She's ready, and looks like it will be in V-2!

[ho428]

We had some neat cars at RA this past weekend, two 65 Mustangs that ran in DE, and an unreal 71 Camaro that ran in TT, the engineering in that Camaro is way over the top, all are working there way into comp school to run in Outlaw Vintage later this year. Like to see more of you guys make it out.

The Firebird ran both races without issue, just couldn't get the power down off the corners without it darting left, finally summized the posi unit is just worn out.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2013/03/100_5248R_zps38b5319c-1.jpg

[ho428]

Teaser pic from last weekends race at Road Atlanta. Just another average Camaro with a 434 LS2 that set an Outlaw Vintage V1 race lap record of 1:29
Watch near the end of my battle with the Mustang, you'll see just how much faster this car is.
Glad I'm in V2 and not V1.

http://vimeo.com/68581465

[High Plains Mopars]

I'm surprised I missed this one. This is great news! Unfortuantly for some of us, it appears to be centered east of the Mississippi.

[Flash68]

Beastly. Nice video. Looks like a ton of fun.

[ho428]

Most of the suspension on the Maro is Detroit Speed and Wilwood brakes. The 18 x 12 and 18 x 14's on slicks are what make it really stick.
Lot of glass and carbon to lighten it up too.

[firebob]

There is a downside to the Hyperdrive though. I went to one of the first events this year just to check it out and there were only two cars signed up. I thought great. Cheap, get on the track practically by yourself. Awesome. So the next event I took the car up and signed up(I couldn't stay all day anyways). Wait for my turn and get ready to go. 20 cars show up! Ugh. And you figure some of them have never been before. I was a little nervous. Rolled out, followed the pace car for a lap and it was go time. Third lap I left off the gas for turn 11 and something is wrong. Gas pedal hits the floor. Dam, the throttle cable keeper fell out. Easy fix. We're off track in the infield. The instructor says you can't get out. I say, but all I have to do it slip it back on, two seconds. Nope gotta wait for the safety crew. I tell the guy what to do from the drivers seat(imagine trying to explain how to open the hood to somebody). Fire it up and we roll back into the paddock. Too late to go back out. That's all she wrote.

Changing a full set of tires(twice), gas, the time, the fee, all for 3 laps. Not quite worth it on that day. At least with a full day and something goes amiss you still have a couple more sessions to enjoy yourself.

[ho428]

We have a nice article in the current NASA Speednews, though some might like to check it out. Starts at page 40
http://www.speednewsmag.com/Sept2013.html

We'll also have 6-7 of our cars on display at the Chip Foose car show at Year One September 21st.

A short clip of our cars at the June race at RA as well.
https://vimeo.com/69316757

Enjoy.

[ho428]

Video of this past weekends races at VIR.
Dan (66 Mustang) and I gridded in the back to duke it out between us, since we were running out of region this race was for bragging rights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMac5Nra52U&feature=youtu.be

[gator68428]

Hey Gordon, I've seen you on Performance Years. Awesome to your Firebird go w2w. I've just recently gotten my car back together and prepared for road courses. Just did NASA SE at Roebling Road this past weekend. Was a great time. First event with NASA so i was DE1, but I'm now cleared to do DE2 next event. I see time trials in my future once get a cage (as well as other bigger tracks like Rd Atl, Sebring, Daytona etc.). I'm in north FL. Next step too will be stiffer springs and front sway, along with 5 point harness, etc.

The vintage class sounds awesome, but not sure if I want my base coat/clear coat out there with all those race cars... Plan to keep fully streetable P/T theme for a while...

Here are some pics and vid from this past weekend. My best time was 1:24.3. What times are you putting down at RRR?
https://youtu.be/DPp1l9-FuNE

just posted here:
https://www.pro-touring.com/threads/120386-68-Firebird-at-Roebling-Road-Raceway-with-NASA-SE-first-time-at-track

[gator68428]

With that said, it would be tempting to run with OVR and VDCA instead of the Thunder race with NASA due to less cars on the track during a race? (If i ever get that far). And all of vintage so less rubbins perhaps?

I just noticed the 2016 rules on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/notes/outlaw-vintage-racing/2016-rules/542344372614695
and only saw pwr to weight of 6.25 and 6.5 depending on tire size... Are there more subclasses than that?

[gator68428]

Anyone planning any DE or TT events with NASA SE this year?? Many posts in this thread from 2010-2013.... Where have all the cowboys gone?? haha, Buck up and lets get out on the track!!

Thinking about making the drive to CMP from north FL... Until i get a cage I like the looks of RRR and CMP more than Sebring, Daytona or RA.

[jtwoods4]

Anyone planning any DE or TT events with NASA SE this year?? Many posts in this thread from 2010-2013.... Where have all the cowboys gone?? haha, Buck up and lets get out on the track!!

Thinking about making the drive to CMP from north FL... Until i get a cage I like the looks of RRR and CMP more than Sebring, Daytona or RA.

I know this is an old thread but my car is almost finished and I'll be running in NASA and VDCA

Here is a video from a few months back the car is almost done at this point and has all the sheet metal installed.

https://youtu.be/DlWwxCeMwu8

[gator68428]

I know this is an old thread but my car is almost finished and I'll be running in NASA and VDCA

Here is a video from a few months back the car is almost done at this point and has all the sheet metal installed.

https://youtu.be/DlWwxCeMwu8

Very nice! Looks like it's coming along. Thanks for posting. Looks like the car is getting pretty decked out for the track, wow. But also keeping some creature comforts. Are you planning to keep it streetable too?

I'm registered for Optima USCA NOLA event coming up in April! Will be my first one.

Then doing Cars and Cones the week after! http://www.fm3roadtrip.com/

My car is half apart right now reworking my exhaust (for ground clearance and fuel tank compatibility). And adding a roll cage soon as that gets done. I have another 2.5 months roughly. But want to get it done in 1-1.5 so i have time to test. Weekends and evenings are busy for me right now.