Too Much Horse Power?

[Gitter Dun]

Ok, so I am getting ready to buy my aluminum Small block. I have two options, 550 horse power or 650 horse power. I personally think that 650 h.p. is too much for my car and that I really dont need that much. I honestly think that I would be faster around a road course with 550 h.p.. Does this make sense to anybody else?

[Mkelcy]

Ok, so I am getting ready to buy my aluminum Small block. I have two options, 550 horse power or 650 horse power. I personally think that 650 h.p. is too much for my car and that I really dont need that much. I honestly think that I would be faster around a road course with 550 h.p.. Does this make sense to anybody else?

Well, if you're going to start talking about real world practicality, I'm not sure what we'll do.

FWIW, I agree with where you may be going, it takes an incredibly skilled driver to use all that power effectively - very few of us are that good, and probably most of us would do better learning how to drive a lower power car rather than struggling to manage a beast on the track. A good driver can make anything go fast.

[Gitter Dun]

Well, if you're going to start talking about real world practicality, I'm not sure what we'll do.

FWIW, I agree with where you may be going, it takes an incredibly skilled driver to use all that power effectively - very few of us are that good, and probably most of us would do better learning how to drive a lower power car rather than struggling to manage a beast on the track. A good driver can make anything go fast.

I'm thinking you need a longer wheel base than 110" to effectively use that kind of power

[formula]

I personally think the 500s are where it's at. I'm right at 500/500 at the crank, and it is both manageably civil and gobsmackingly quick.

You can always add more later!

[Gitter Dun]

I personally think the 500s are where it's at. I'm right at 500/500 at the crank, and it is both manageably civil and gobsmackingly quick.

You can always add more later!

I am currently running 400/400 to the rear wheels and am very comfortale with it and know I can handle more, how much hosepower at the crank would equate to 500 to the rear wheels?

[2ndgenhunter]

auto or stick? if auto what kind?

[Gitter Dun]

auto or stick? if auto what kind?

4 speed manual

[formula]

Rule of thumb is to assume 15% drivetrain losses... Not perfect but it'll ballpark ya.

[Gitter Dun]

Rule of thumb is to assume 15% drivetrain losses... Not perfect but it'll ballpark ya.

550 hp minus 15% gets me 467.5 to the rear wheels, and I have heard that each lb you lose is worth 1 hp, and the aluminum block will knock 100 lbs off the front end, hmmmm....., leaning towards 550 hp for now.

[formula]

550 hp minus 15% gets me 467.5 to the rear wheels, and I have heard that each lb you lose is worth 1 hp, and the aluminum block will knock 100 lbs off the front end, hmmmm....., leaning towards 550 hp for now.

Isn't it each ten pounds lost is approximately equal to a horsepower gained? Otherwise, every time you had a couple buddies in the car with you, your car would turn into a geo metro.

[shmoov69]

A 650 hp small block is powerful, but you gotta remmber tq. There prolly won't be tons down low, meaning that you will have to wind it to get there. Which would make it a bit "less" down low in normal driving than the smaller one IMO.
Me? 650 without question if the price was doable. When you get a tq monster engine, that's when it gets crazy IMO.

[Steve1968LS2]

It's not easy to hook 650 hp. But torque is the more important number.

I ran in the 550 range and only after my car was set to the point of being able to handle that power did I move (am moving) to the 650 range.

A well set up car with 550 will consitently beat an un-setup car with 650.

[shortrack]

what alum engine combo's were you thinking about.....????

[CarlC]

I'm at 465RWHP (approx 530@crank) and the same torque. It's plenty. The car is a lot faster than my driving ability.

As Mike stated, it is a lot easier to learn to drive a well-mannered car than a high-strung thoroughbred.

[AintQik]

This thread makes me laugh and I'm very pleased to see some thoughtful mature responses. Its so easy to say there is no such thing as "too much". That statement always make me chuckle. I'm guilty of building motors to make impressive numbers without a car to back it up. My primarily drag 05 Vette made a de-tuned 763 at the wheels and could get smacked by set up cars with much less power. That motor was just to say I "could".

Road course is no different and I applaud some of the comments made. I've found that 450 rwhp has always been very fun in a lighter sports car and very managable. More than that and you need to be on your game, as if you aren't already on a track lol, and you really need the car to be ready for it.

Also agree on the torque comments. I've been up against cars with more HP and torque, but when my torque was early and flat I would always walk big number cars. Depending on your track the motor may rarely see its big HP numbers.

[Gitter Dun]

Thanks for your help guys, The price for the 550 hp and 650 hp motors is the same, but driveability on the road course is a huge concern to me. The tracks I will be running at are Infineon and Thunderhill. Although 650 hp would be nice at Thunderhill, I think it would be to much at infineon. Need to keep in mind that tires and weight are going to play a huge part in this equation. Target weight is 2800 lbs not counting my weight. I spoke to my engine builder this morning and after a few considerations I am thinking to go with 570 hp, minus 20% should put me at 456 hp to the rear wheels.

[shortrack]

I'm thinking you need a longer wheel base than 110" to effectively use that kind of power

just.....FWIW - a Sprint Cup car wieghs 3400lbs, has a 110" wb, puts out about 850hp through a 10" slick on a roadcourse.

[Happyfunballs]

Just because your car has 650hp doesn't mean you need to use it. If you've got the cash now, build it now. You'll end up getting better and better and will eventually gain the experience to manage it.

[Gitter Dun]

just.....FWIW - a Sprint Cup car wieghs 3400lbs, has a 110" wb, puts out about 850hp through a 10" slick on a roadcourse.

Hmmm.... thats true......

[Gitter Dun]

Just because your car has 650hp doesn't mean you need to use it. If you've got the cash now, build it now. You'll end up getting better and better and will eventually gain the experience to manage it.

Good point, although I would probably lose bottom end power and reliability, I do need to make this motor last

[shmoov69]

Wow! 2800 lbs!! With a good driver, and a perfect car 650 would be unstoppable! But for a medium grade in both, the 550 would still be a rocket! So after reading more, I'm assuming it is a track only car or what are your plans in the end with the car?

[Gitter Dun]

Wow! 2800 lbs!! With a good driver, and a perfect car 650 would be unstoppable! But for a medium grade in both, the 550 would still be a rocket! So after reading more, I'm assuming it is a track only car or what are your plans in the end with the car?

Car currently weight's in at 3220 lbs. I imagine the aluminum block motor will eliminate another 100 lbs. That gets me to 3120. I have fiberglass doors and hood from VFN that should drop me to 2920. I had the doors and hood on before and I made doors operable but at the time I couldn't afford the nascar bars and paint so I through the steel back on. Car is registered for street but its going to see a lot of track time.(Hopefully) I dont plan on final paint and interior until I'm 110% sure I'm done with track days.

[garner67]

...I dont plan on final paint and interior until I'm 110% sure I'm done with track days.

what, What, WHAT?!!! When will you ever be done with Track Days?!:lol:

My long term goal will be having both a dedicated track mule as well as a nicely built street fighter.

[Gitter Dun]

what, What, WHAT?!!! When will you ever be done with Track Days?!:lol:

My long term goal will be having both a dedicated track mule as well as a nicely built street fighter.

LOL, thats a fantastic plan Garner, but I like my insurance rates where they're at. Think I'll save my street fighting for the track
:6gears:

[CarlC]

Yeah, an addict putting down the crack pipe. Like that's gonna happen!

[Rod]

to MUCH power!! :lmao: you guys are damn funny!!!!

[JEFFTATE]

I'd go with the torque-ier (at lower RPM )engine of the two..
It'll last longer , you'll get better fuel economy, it'll run cooler, it'll pull out of the corners better.

[Gitter Dun]

I'd go with the torque-ier (at lower RPM )engine of the two..
It'll last longer , you'll get better fuel economy, it'll run cooler, it'll pull out of the corners better.

I talked to the engine builder today, we haven't gotten down to the details yet, but basically it's a crate 427 aluminum small block, 550 hp with hydraulic roller, but he told me he would put a solid roller in it for me and it would yield close to 570 hp. That is most likely the route I am going to take. Looking to start ordering process on Monday.

[Crazy Carl]

I've never driven anything other than a crash truck around a race track, but for what it's worth I have a lot more fun on my low torque 69.8 hp bike than my big torque v-twin. The 570hp option seems like the best route, especially from a liability standpoint. If your car is mostly stock then the bigger power might start twisting it up. Tires get really expensive when you're crossing it up comin' out of turn 7 at Sears Point.

[twosaturns]

order it w/ 650hp and run it w/ a restrictor plate :)

[The WidowMaker]

id stick with the 550 and the HR before i stepped up to a SR for only 20 hp more. theres nothing better than not having to deal with setting lash.

what was the plan to get it to 650? if its just moving the rpm band up and getting a good number, then the 550 would probably be best.

[Gitter Dun]

order it w/ 650hp and run it w/ a restrictor plate :)

I ordered engine on Monday, shooting for 580 hp. If I get my car down to 2800 lbs I should be able to lay down some solid times at Infineon and Thunderhill. My new time trial class is TTU, U standing for unlimited modifications. With aluminum block, fiberglass doors and hood, and aluminum flywheel I will be down to 2900 lbs. Shouldn,t be much harder to find another 100 lbs to lose(rear deck lid, rear lexan, euro bumpers). I will be moving from this forum to project updates. I'll keep ya'll updated from there.

[Vegas69]

Average power wins. I have an all aluminum 489 ZL-1 big block that makes 666.7 hp and 641 ftlbs on 91 octane and 34 degrees total. It's not radical by any means. This thing makes power from 2500-6800. I ran El Toro last weekend and left it in 3rd for the whole road course! Turned a 1:50 lap and left some on the table for sure. The low end torque was plenty to get me out of the slower corners and it zinged up top. Back to my orignal comment. It's what makes the best average power unless you're Boris Said and your chassi can handle the extra power. I'm here to tell you that my hp level is managable but you better be paying attention and have some hellacious brakes!!!!!!! I don't thing you can have to much power as long as it's managable. Meaning naturally aspirated and your foot is used to the modulation.

[Gitter Dun]

id stick with the 550 and the HR before i stepped up to a SR for only 20 hp more. theres nothing better than not having to deal with setting lash.

what was the plan to get it to 650? if its just moving the rpm band up and getting a good number, then the 550 would probably be best.

Going with solid roller cause I heard that hydraulic rollers fall off at higher rpm, at Infineon coming out of turn 11, when I reach turn 1 I need to spin about 7300 rpm before I head up the hill. I will probably not gain any power from 6800 to 7300 but Im hoping I could comfortably keep my foot to the floor till I start heading up the hill.