UPS damages package and wont pay up...

[sunkistcamaro]

Hi guys,
I have a bit of a problem with UPS...
I sold my Holley Commander 950 MPFI on Ebay recently. Everything was going fine, I sold it, got paid and shipped.
I packed the hell out of this thing. I found a box that was big and strong enough to fit everything. I kept the throttle body bolted on the intake all wrapped in paper and bubble wrap. The wire harness and small odds and ends in another smaller box wedged along side of the intake. And a another box with the computer. I also had distributor in there wrapped in paper and bubble wrap.
I brought it to the UPS Store paid for shipping and $1500 worth of insurance. Enough to cover the price of the sale and shipping if lost.
In a few days the buyer calls me saying the distributor cap is busted and the linkage arm on the throttle is bent.
I called the UPS store to tell them what he told me. He started a claim real fast.

Long story short...
Three disputes later they are not going to pay for $750 worth of damage they caused. They say that I didnt have 2" of clearance worth of padding around the part :screwy:. The UPS Store says they cant do anything else to help me.

What the hell can I do?? I worked it out with the buyer and told him I would split the cost of a used throttle body on Ebay ($300). Its not his fault this happened.
I want to get the buyer a new throttle body and distributor. Im not looking to make money on this. I just want to make everything right.

Has anyone had issues like this? Who do I need to call / write / email to get them to pay?

Thanks guys!!

[HotRodKush]

I would see if there's a district supervisor that you can contact. If nothing else works, go to the local news station and see if they can do a quick story on it - the UPS stores are usually locally-owned businesses (not like the post offices) and would hate to have a bad rep.

[sunkistcamaro]

I was thinking of that too, as a last resort. I was also told to write a letter to my attorney general for help too.

[sunkistcamaro]

How many people are hung out to dry by these people...?

[LateNight72]

It's no surprise that UPS doesn't pay up. They are notorious for denying nearly every claim for "insufficient packaging".

FedEx, unfortunately isn't much better. Next time you are shipping something worth a decent chunk, and it actually weighs a good bit (more than 40lbs), I'd consider making a wooden crate. Saving $40 on materials isn't worth it. I shipped a mint M-20 from Miami to New Hampshire in a wooden crate UPS, and fortunately no ears were broken. You can also buy large sheets of 2" thick styrofoam at Home Depot or Lowe's. It cover's UPS's 2" rule.

[Pro Stock]

UPS stores are private enterpises but they are working as agents for UPS, if they did their jobs correctly they would have asked the contents of and inspected the outside of the package for strength, if at that point they accepted the package it would be considered insured. Contact UPS directly and file a complaint, if that doesn't get any results contact a small time "inexpensive" lawyer to write them a letter or take them to small claims court.

Dale

[sunkistcamaro]

They are notorious for denying nearly every claim for "insufficient packaging".
You can also buy large sheets of 2" thick styrofoam at Home Depot or Lowe's. It cover's UPS's 2" rule.

This is what I have a BIG problem with, this 2" rule.
I have never seen nor heard of this rule till now. No sign, not even a mention of this till now...
I was always told to package everything tight, thats it...

[sunkistcamaro]

UPS stores are private enterpises but they are working as agents for UPS, if they did their jobs correctly they would have asked the contents of and inspected the outside of the package for strength, if at that point they accepted the package it would be considered insured.
Done... They looked at it while they were weighing it.
After I insured it for $1500 a manage even had to come over and type something into the computer. I found out later that he was the franchise owner.

[MonzaRacer]

Time for lawsuit, use a lawyer that will go for cost plus his fee, even if its just to get an actual resolution.
Bad thing is if you dont have pis before and after and after it was packed you may have a problem BUT you bought plenty of insurance, also if selling "insurance" call your states insurance licensing board/office, this might get the company in some hot water if you can show a denial of coverage WITH facts of management having to sign off on it, you might win and make the lawyer some cash too. But dont forget your time ,money, reputation etc, it can cost. Oh and paying THEM to pack and ship it removes your liability and you can actually take store to court next time

[sunkistcamaro]

Oh and paying THEM to pack and ship it removes your liability and you can actually take store to court next time
I wish I did...
Im so pissed because they are offering a service and not standing behind their guarantee.
I paid $23 to ship and over $30 in insurance!

[Takid455]

had this happen to a dash once and a shaker a different time. the first complaint is ALWAYS denied. A second call or letter results in refund of damaged part. just have to work their system. changes are you may get the part back and the buyer gets the money. I also had it where I got the parts back and the seller got the funds. he then sent the funds to me.

[Jim Nilsen]

You may have to go all the way up to the regional supervisor to get results. keep squeaking and climbing until they pay up.

Resistance is their game and annoying customers who won't go away get paid to go away. It' a pain but it has to be their pain too before they listen.

[1969CamaroRS]

Also something to keep in mind in the future is let UPS pack anything your are going to insure past the $100.00, this way they lose the ability to claim it was packaged wrong (this is what I do after a similar bad experience). You end up paying a bit more but have a much better chance of them paying up without having to do a dog and pony show to get them to do so.

[fordsbyjay]

Well you can prepare to take it up the ass because I have never heard of them paying out a claim. They screwed me when they broke the bellhousing and yoke on a T56 I bought. I paid the UPS store to pack it so it would meet their standards and they screwed me every way they could. Packing, insurance and smashed product. I have never shipped anything by United Parcel Smashers again. What needs to happen is a class action law suit to put them in their place.

[sunkistcamaro]

What needs to happen is a class action law suit to put them in their place.
I was wondering if anyone was going to say this. I was thinking that this may have some merit. Im in the process of writing a letter to the attorney general office to investigate.

[Van B]

UPS = U People Suck

[novaderrik]

not that i'm siding with UPS on this, but how is a bent throttle arm and busted distributor cap worth $750?

i know how crooked UPS is- last fall, a friend of mine sold a tv on ebay for $500. she packed it in the original box and took it to the UPS store to ship it to the buyer just outside of Boston, MA. she insured it for it's actual value of $1000 to cover the cost of the tv plus whatever else. UPS never delivered it- their online tracker showed it arriving at the Boston terminal and then it just disappeared. they denied her claim and said that it was somehow her fault. she fought it, and they sent her a check for $300, which she cashed in order to buy some groceries for her and her 5 year old daughter. she thought she was going to be able to get more out of them later, since the slimeball at UPS told her that she could still keep the claim open after cashing the check. i had to explain to her that by cashing the check, she was accepting that as their final offer. she didn't believe me until she called them a few days alter and they wouldn't even talk to her any more.
now she flips off every Brown truck she sees on the road..

[fordsbyjay]

I was wondering if anyone was going to say this. I was thinking that this may have some merit. Im in the process of writing a letter to the attorney general office to investigate.

Let me know how that turns out. It wouldn't take long to get a long list if you were to go a search on the www. UPS has been screwing people for years.

[Tony_SS]

UPS screwed me. I bought a printer, arrived broke and they basically said F-U. Wouldn't do a think for me or the seller who tried to work it out. File a BBB report, contact a small claims ct lawyer and give them hell. Basically the owner of that franchise is telling you to bite it. It's his claim and he's weaseling out of it.

Use UPS at your own risk!

Personally I ship everything through USPS. I figure they could use the business and I've never had an issue with their service.

[sunkistcamaro]

The $750 came about because the agent at UPS told the buyer NOT to take apart the distributor cap. He said that this would be considered tampering and they would deny the claim. He asked them how can he make sure nothing else was wrong? The agent said to get a quote for new items that were damaged.

This is what the buyer wrote for prices from Summit:
Throttle body $465.95
Distributor $ 271.95
Gasket $1.95
Shipping $12.95
total: $752.80

[sunkistcamaro]

USPS has my business next time.

[Frank the Crank]

Here is all the proof you need...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcIOy6XcM3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrbIgBDT-fE

Enjoy!

[sunkistcamaro]

Beautiful...

[fordsbyjay]

I bought a computer case from Houston (3 hours away) and it was smashed to hell like it was ran over with a forklift. The poor thing made it all the way from china and couldn't go 3 hours in a UPS truck.

[southernfriedcj]

UPS damaged an aluminum wheel that was in a typical cardboard wheel box with only an extra piece of cardboard as padding and paid for a replacement.
They also lost a toploader 4spd that was being shipped to me and paid the $1,500 claim.
When I had a Kirkham Cobra replica we used to joke on the Cobra Forum that someone was building a Cobra replica because of all the "lost" parts that were shipped via UPS.

[rrunner68]

EVERY time I ship UPS now, I take it to the store and have them package it. No insufficient packaging problems.

[twosaturns]

with a company as large as UPS, there will always be problems, but, I think WAY more successful items shipped than not. but you don't hear about those (hey, guess what? my stuff shipped just fine!)
I worked in bicycle shops for 15 years, 95% of our stuff arrived by UPS; all our parts, most of our complete bicycles ('cept big orders coming on a truck) and high end custom framesets and I never had to file a claim on a damaged or lost part.
point being, this particular experience sucks, but overall, my experience is that they are very responsible. they have to be very cautious paying out claims because of the potential for fraud (intentionally shipping something damaged to make a claim, damaged before shipping, etc).

[fordsbyjay]

UPS damaged an aluminum wheel that was in a typical cardboard wheel box with only an extra piece of cardboard as padding and paid for a replacement.
They also lost a toploader 4spd that was being shipped to me and paid the $1,500 claim.
When I had a Kirkham Cobra replica we used to joke on the Cobra Forum that someone was building a Cobra replica because of all the "lost" parts that were shipped via UPS.

They pay out lost claims they don't pay out damage claims. They always say it was insufficient packing no matter what. When I was searching my claim one guy had his parts in a wooden crate and they broke. They didn't pay his claim either.

[Jim Nilsen]

Here is all the proof you need...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcIOy6XcM3s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrbIgBDT-fE

Enjoy!
That's how it happens and even worse on the conveyors.

I recall telling the regional supervisor that they should stop throwing packages the way they do and she said they don't throw packages. I then told her that I guess that sudden drop from 3 ft off the back of the truck is as good as throwing. I was having trouble with them for t boning my body side trim I was packaging, it was getting bent in half in thick shipping tubes. I had to tell the woman that I installed conveyors for a living and the packages were getting caught in the turns and getting smash by larger packages. Once I drew her a picture of what was happening you could see the light bulb go on and the defense faulter. I think she knew what was happening after that.
We went to shipping in pvc tubing which is light and fairly cheap. never bent one after that.

[vintageracer]

One of the best ways to fight the UPS claim of "Insufficient Packaging" is to make the UPS driver WAIT while you (the receiving party) actually opens a package that appears damaged and inspect the delivery immediately. As the shipper you can make help this happen by making the customer have to sign for the delivery so the driver cannot just drop the package off and leave without the customer personally recieving the delivery. The UPS driver's HATE this when they are requested/demanded to wait to inspect a damaged package and will try anything to get going and leave since time is money for them and driver's will alway tell you "It's Not Their Problem". Of course it's "THEIR PROBLEM" since the delivery guy really is the face of UPS for all of us and the driver's are the companies representative!

Take a picture of the damaged box unopened if it appears damaged and then pictures as the package is opened. Always KEEP the entire box and packaging materials so it can be shown that the item WAS properly packaged. These actions will stop all the UPS BS about "Insufficient Packaging".

Now having said all the above the problem is that the damage is discovered on the buyer's end who will most likely NOT do this or does not know he/she can and NEED'S to do the above so it really doesn't make much difference. The big problem for the seller/shipper is that the customer on the recieving end finds the damage but the can do absolutely nothing concerning a damage claim with UPS since they are not the legal shipper who shipped the package and purchased the insurance coverage. The shipper is ALWAYS a long way off, never has any pictures of the damaged package, pcitures of the damaged contents and the actual packaging materials to show proper packaging which are needed to pursue their insurance claim.

To help combat this "Insufficient Packaging" BS I always send the buyer/receiving party an email instructing them on how to properly inspect my UPS packages upon reciept on their end, what do if the package has any visible damage and to MAKE the UPS driver wait while the package is opened in the presence of the driver to inspect the possible damage.

This has actually worked 3 different times for me over the last 5 years I have been doing this where UPS has trashed a package, damaged a part and the buyer actually did what I asked AND called me on my mobile phone with the UPS driver standing there while they opened the package. In each case the the insurance paid off without incident since UPS HAD NO WAY to weasel out of their "DAMAGE" responsibility.

Is is a pain in the butt? Yes!

Just another aspect of doing business in today's "It Was Not My Fault" business environment!!!

[toofun]

SUNKIST THAT SUCKS! Let me give you the low down on the shipping biz. UPS(also known as Oops) Fedex(also known as Fed up!) DHL Dh(ell)... Anyways, the bad thing is they are all bad for one reason or another.. UPS uses the same gorilla that use to be in the samsonite comercials(ok Im dating myself here) but seriously UPS STANDS on packages on their trucks, Ive seen it! and they always stack floor to ceiling as well giving nothing a chance in shipping. The 2 inch clearance thing is the ole stand by in denying claims for them. Reason is they want it to be hard for you. BUT since you had it done at a UPS store and THEY packaged it for you and you paid for insurance, at this point its time to get an attorney.. It will cost you but you may be able to recoup the attorneys fees once you are done... Dont bother calling the attorneys generals office, they are no help.... dont bother calling the corporate offices either youll get no where, save yourself the time and hire an attorney and sue the STORE that packaged it for you.. Dont call them and threaten them, FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT AND DO IT!

Also, for all others out there, your best defense is leverage... what do I mean? Well when ever I send something out UPS I try and send it from a friends or family members work that does a LARGE amount of business with UPS... Those companies deal with REPS that HATE to lose good customers to Fedex or DHL or even the USPS... YOu would be surprised how many times Ive sent things out with packin that have been damaged and DENIED by UPS only to contact the REP and threaten to use FEDEX... Amazing how those REPS get things turned around.. Like I said the shipping biz is a whores business! Use that to your advantage! Hope this helps..

Mark
TOOFUN

[trapin]

As a rule of thumb I NEVER go to UPS just due to their exorbitant prices. They are usually 40%-60% higher than FedEx everytime I compared prices when shipping.

Now I just go straight to FedEx.

[fordsbyjay]

One of the best ways to fight the UPS claim of "Insufficient Packaging" is to make the UPS driver WAIT while you (the receiving party) actually opens a package that appears damaged and inspect the delivery immediately. As the shipper you can make help this happen by making the customer have to sign for the delivery so the driver cannot just drop the package off and leave without the customer personally recieving the delivery. The UPS driver's HATE this when they are requested/demanded to wait to inspect a damaged package and will try anything to get going and leave since time is money for them and driver's will alway tell you "It's Not Their Problem". Of course it's "THEIR PROBLEM" since the delivery guy really is the face of UPS for all of us and the driver's are the companies representative!



Sorry but that doesn't work either. I had him wait and record all the damage and they said screw you.

[fordsbyjay]

Does anyone have any idea how long you have to make a legal claim against them?

[vintageracer]

Sorry but that doesn't work either. I had him wait and record all the damage and they said screw you.


Worked for me three different times in the last 5 years.

[BuddyP]

Didn't read every post here but did you just call the local UPS store or did you deal with UPS directly? I've had several claims in the past both on stuff that has been shipped to me and other than I have shipped and never had a problem not getting refunded yet. The last item was a 68 camaro trunklid that I just wrapped in a large chunk of cardboard and had then stamp it "fragile". It recieved a couple dents in it and had no problem getting it refunded. I've had a snowmoble motor get damaged, and I will admit the guy packed it pretty crappy, and they refunded the broke parts on it.... so far so good for me.

I will never ship USPS unless absolutly neccessary. Had way to much bad luck in the past, and is a nightmare to try and make insurance claims on damaged parts.

[sunkistcamaro]

i have only been dealing with the UPS store. They filed all the paperwork and made the claim for me.

[DRJDVM's '69]

I've had 2 claims with UPS....both went fine and I got my $$ back for the items.
One was a Holley carb where the vent tube went through the box and got bent enough to crack the base of the carb
The second one was an original heater box from my Barracuda....broke the 30 year old plastic.
They paid both claims without issue...... sorry

[sunkistcamaro]

Glad you got paid back.
I think im going to call the main office tomorrow.
I mean, this is how it was packaged, do you see anything wrong?
(The picture is from the buyer, I forgot to take one..)

[sunkistcamaro]

So another day of phone calls.
Called UPS directly, they apologized that the damage happened but cant do anything for me. They cant even discuss anything because I am NOT the shipper, The store is. She gave me the phone number to the UPS Store complaint department.
Very nice and ready to file a claim against the store.
She said the owner will get in contact with me.
This is all a bunch of crap...

I left a message at the Department of Consumer Protection in my state.

[sunkistcamaro]

After all this Im actually looking forward to going to the dentist today...:crying::rolleyes:

[Taylor1969]

Glad you got paid back.
I think im going to call the main office tomorrow.
I mean, this is how it was packaged, do you see anything wrong?
(The picture is from the buyer, I forgot to take one..)

Actually... not to be too contradictory, but I don't think that the package has enough packaging in it. Looks to me like there was only a small amount of bubblewrap protecting the distributor. Not surprised that it broke to be honest.

[soothsayer]

similar thing happend with my father. Paid for the insurance to ship a really old book. In shipping the binding was completly torn off from getting thrown around. After speeking with supervisors and claims department, he had to file in small claims court. Won the case.. needless to say we won't be using them again.

[LateNight72]

I just closed my UPS account and opened a FedEx account... Cheaper too.

lol.

[buickfunnycar.com]

I mean, this is how it was packaged, do you see anything wrong?
(The picture is from the buyer, I forgot to take one..)

Not nearly enough packaging material in there and if it's that valuable,it needed to be double-boxed and packed with enough material so that it will actually rock slightly instead of lying flat due to the packaging forcing the sides of the box to bow slightly...that's when you know you have enough gap between the item and the edges of the container.

I used to work in the packaging biz years ago and that just isn't sufficent...

[sunkistcamaro]

In hind sight yes for the distributor.
I got the bent dimensions from the buyer and reverse engineered the bend. It took a minimum of 8993 lbs of force to bend the arm that much. That equates out to the 40 lb box falling 7 feet directly on the tip of the arm. The reason why I say a minimum amount is because the shaft that its connected to yield too.
I do not think that 2 inches of padding would cushion a 8000 lb blow.

[BADVELLE]

UPS screwed me. I bought a printer, arrived broke and they basically said F-U. Wouldn't do a think for me or the seller who tried to work it out. File a BBB report, contact a small claims ct lawyer and give them hell. Basically the owner of that franchise is telling you to bite it. It's his claim and he's weaseling out of it.

Use UPS at your own risk!

Personally I ship everything through USPS. I figure they could use the business and I've never had an issue with their service.

You must work there, I don't know anyone that likes to do business with USPS, as you can see by their lack of financial stability. I don't use them because of the personalities and attitudes I always get, would it hurt someone to smile and say thanks once in awhile!

[Ash]

I used to work for the main company contracted by UPS for all their customer support. I moved my way through every department but International. The best advise I can give, if your going to ship anything of value, get the UPS shipping guidelines manual. They come out with a new one every year, kind of like a end user agreement on all the software we install on our computer. The attitude is in line with "ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law", and they count on it to save money on claims like yours. They cover their butt inside and out. I saw more than a couple "Weather" scans on tracking reports that were blatantly there because the plain or semi was late and they didn't want to refund the shipping charges, but to be honest, if you learn and follow their rules/guidelines to the T, you wont have any problems.

[fordsbyjay]

You must work there, I don't know anyone that likes to do business with USPS, as you can see by their lack of financial stability. I don't use them because of the personalities and attitudes I always get, would it hurt someone to smile and say thanks once in awhile!

I ship a lot of things USPS because of the crappy screw you attitude from UPS. I would rather not have a smile but have my package show up not smashed to hell. All you have to do is go on you tube and search all the videos on UPS throwing and trashing packages so there is no way in hell anyone can tell me any kind of packaging is good enough.

[twosaturns]

You must work there, I don't know anyone that likes to do business with USPS, as you can see by their lack of financial stability. I don't use them because of the personalities and attitudes I always get, would it hurt someone to smile and say thanks once in awhile!
depends on the local post office. my wife has been using USPS only for years for her ebay business; we use our local downtown office and everyone knows us there, always pleasant.
sometimes, we used the suburban office, any they are quite surly, not pleasant at all.

[Jim Nilsen]

The box in the pic was no where near big enough and it was not in any condition to survive even being stacked with other boxes.

Never put anything valuable in an old beat up box that has no structural integrity anymore. Creases and dents and just plain out of shape when packaged wil make it fail.

I also have to agree that you insufficient bubble wrap clearance.

That package would not survive any shipper from my experience.

If you do choose to use an old box make sure you line it wih more coardboard to make the walls thick enough to support some weight when placed on any side and something stacked on it which is what happens.

I have to say that you will probably not compensated for it ,but you might get lucky?

If all of the pieces would have been in individual boxes like the ones that didn't get damaged you would have been golden.

Sorry to give you an opinion that it wasn't good enough but it wasn't.

We use USPS all of the time to ship and it is as good as any other and usually faster and cheaper most of the time . We go to several offices and have found that they vary from day to day but one of the offices we use is much friendlier and helpful and the others just make me walk away laughing and shaking my head as to how stupid they are about treating customers.

I wish you luck

[sunkistcamaro]

The box in the pic was no where near big enough and it was not in any condition to survive even being stacked with other boxes.
The box in the picture was after the damage was done, I didn't take a picture of the everything before I shipped it. the box was in perfect condition. I did put additional cardboard on the bottom thinking that it may get bounced around. When the box was closed the intake and other boxes could not move.
I do believe that I should have done a better job with the distributor.



I have to say that you will probably not compensated for it ,but you might get lucky?

I have my fingers crossed.



Sorry to give you an opinion that it wasn't good enough but it wasn't.
I value everyone opinion on this site or I wouldn't have posted it at all.



I wish you luck
Thanks man, If anything, I have learned a valuable lesson in shipping.

[Jim Nilsen]

The box in the picture was after the damage was done, I didn't take a picture of the everything before I shipped it. the box was in perfect condition. I did put additional cardboard on the bottom thinking that it may get bounced around. When the box was closed the intake and other boxes could not move.
I do believe that I should have done a better job with the distributor.



I have my fingers crossed.


I value everyone opinion on this site or I wouldn't have posted it at all.


Thanks man, If anything, I have learned a valuable lesson in shipping.


It is too bad that you didn't take a pic of the box before you shipped it. That really took a beating.

Big lesson learned: take a pic of all of the packages you send these days.If you could show them what they did to the box alone it would tell a story they wouldn't like.

I always thought that the Samsonite gorilla went to work for ups when they stopped the commercials,lol

[killer69]

hahaha i showed the video to our UPS Driver, you shoda seen her face, she couldn't beleve it
we just had one a steering shaft we sent direct from the manufacturer to a customer in Australia, well the packaging showed up but not the part, guess what

they denied it said the packeging was not up to there standards,:1st: nice one

care to tell the rest of us what the standards ARE???

[Tony_SS]

You must work there, I don't know anyone that likes to do business with USPS, as you can see by their lack of financial stability. I don't use them because of the personalities and attitudes I always get, would it hurt someone to smile and say thanks once in awhile!

No I don't work there. Like said, it depends on the office. The one in my town is very friendly.. but most of the people here are. So I don't get an attitude.

If you want smiley glad hands, I'm sure UPS will do that for you.. right until you leave, then they drop kick you package into the truck. lol.