supercharging a zz4 motor

[72nova]

I have a zz4 motor taht I would like to supercharge. This motor has 10.1 compression and the HOT CAM package. What is the most boost I can run with this motor without grenading it? I would like to know what kind of supercharger( I've heard bad things about ATI from some people about their support). I would like to see 600 -650 hp, is this asking too much from this motor? I also have the edelbrock pro-flo fuel injection system on it. What size injectors should I step up to? Is this system capable of supporting this amount of hp? This site is incredible, this is the first thing I check everyday when I get on the computer. Any help would be great.

[BRIAN]

Check out Magnacharger they have exactly what you are looking for. They have set up for that motor with dyno sheets.

[WS6]

no the engine will not support that much power, not with how its built right now. yes you can add an SC to it if you keep the boost in check, 6-8 pounds intercooled. to get it to work with the proflow will not be easy. the proflow computer only has a one bar MAP. so it does not recognize boost. not sure what model proflow you currently have. if its the most powerful version for the small block then youll have a very hard time finding bigger injectors. those are webber injectors and they are a lot smaller physically than "normal".

if your goal is 600-650 id build a purpose built motor from scratch honestly. your looking at a 300hp increase over what it is now.

and as far as i know magnacharger only makes superchargers for LS based engines, the ZZ4 is more akin to the TPI motor than anything else. those are corvette L98 heads on the engine.

[WELTERRACER]

I currently have a procharger on a 355 not much different than youir motor.. with 6 psi it will make 600hp and run on pump gas with 34-36 degrees timing..

If you run 10psi of boost you will need a minimum of 101 octain..but make closer to 675hp..

I know the ZZ4 motor can handle 500hp..no problem.... but if you hook that sucker up really good the crank or rods could fail.. as they are not forged.

P.S. IM RUNNING STOCK RODS AND CAST CRANK and dont have a problem YET!!

[Fuelie Fan]

zz4's do have forged cranks

I have seen a Magnacharger supercharger on a ZZ4, but I don't think it's for sale as a kit yet. It ran at 7 lbs, intercooled.

It neither made 600 hp nor did it run with 36 degs timing under boost. Even in a perfect world, with 6lbs a zz4 would only make 500hp (Pressure ratio of 1.4 times the N/A rating of 355hp), and that would be if the supercharger didn't take a single ounce to turn, so your engine must be a little better than a ZZ4!

[WELTERRACER]

The zz4 motor with the hot cam makes 420hp.. NOT the 350 you mentioned..

He did note he had the HOT CAM in his engine..

[Fuelie Fan]

I should have read more carefully, sorry.

However, the HOT cam package still does not take it to 420. I've read closer to 395.

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Discus/messages/653/1401.html
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/buildup/cam/

The ZZ430 (which may be what you're thinking of?) utilizes not only the HOT cam package but also Fast Burn heads.

1.4 times 395 is 550hp, which does not account for supercharger drag hp, so it seems like he would be in the high 400s/low 500s. That's my estimate anyways.

[Fuelie Fan]

PS Not trying to split hairs or start any arguments, just posting what I've seen and read

[WELTERRACER]

He did not say weither or not he had the aluminum heads or not.. Because he said he had the hot cam PACKAGE.. i assumed he had the aluminum heads..

Ive read they are rated at 385 but make 420+hp with open headers

420 x 1.5= 630hp.. (this is with 10psi of boost..)

[JamesJ]

I am a fan of split hairs!

420HP with open headers, is he going to run with open headers?

[Fuelie Fan]

All ZZ4's have aluminum heads.
They are rated at 355hp and and 405 ft-lbs.

The heads are the L98 "corvette" tuned port heads, not the "fast burns", which come on the Fast Burn 385 and ZZ430.

[WELTERRACER]

I am a fan of split hairs!

420HP with open headers, is he going to run with open headers?


Most magazines dyno there engines with open headers.. It is possible it could make 425 with 1 3/4 headers and 3inch exhaust and high flowing mufflers

[JamesJ]

Possible, Yes / Likely, No

[Fuelie Fan]

What he said. Besides, most magazines also use bogus correction factors, no accesories, and electric water pumps to beef up numbers, not real-world at all.

[streetk14]

I'm with you, Fuliefan. The ZZ4 with hot cam should be a little below 400 hp. And open headers on that motor is NOT going to add 30 hp over a good flowing, properly sized exhaust. But back to the topic at hand. I'd have to agree that 600-650hp out of a stock ZZ4 short block is going to be pushing it strength-wise. That motor does have a forged crank, and fairly strong "PM" rods. The motor does not have forged pistons, that would be your weak link. The 10:1 compression is also going to be a problem. You could change to a better flowing head (maybe AFR 195's ?) with a larger chamber to lower the compression to a more blower-friendly level. You could then get away with running (for example) a procharger with 10 lbs of boost, but you would still have to be careful with the cast pistons. You could change out the pistons for some good quality, forged, dished pistons. But even then, the L98 vette heads would prove a restriction and have a hard time making 600+ hp. ATI does have a ZZ4 specific blower kit coming out. I know it is a low boost (6 or 7 psi) kit with a smaller blower. I couldn't find any horsepower numbers, though. ATI says the C2 blower used in the kit is good up to 550 hp, so you know the power will be less than that. You have quite a few options, but you will need to spend some money to get the power numbers you want. It can be done, but don't expect to just bolt on a blower. Good luck,
Andy

[Blown353]

FYI, Whipple makes a ZZ4 kit that puts out 518 hp / 544 ft-lbs of torque.

http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1171

I wouldn't push things much father than that with the stock ZZ4; the compression and the cast pistons will be the limiting factor. The pistons will probably live at higher power actually, so long as you don't detonate the sucker... Also, the valve springs on the ZZ4 are quite soft (in the neighboorhood of 90-95 lbs closed), and if you run too much boost you'll hang the intake valves open! 6-7 psi would be tops.

The exhaust port flow on those heads will also limit power.

However, I would say between 500-550 hp is an attainable goal with some changes. Definately swap the cam to a blower-specific cam. You can get away without it, but it will run better and make more power with a proper blower cam. I would also suggest tearing into the engine to install good rod bolts, main studs, and head bolts/studs.

As far as your Edelbrock Pro-Flo... I hate to say it, but if you plan on going supercharged it's time for an upgrade. The throttle body and fuel rails will support enough fuel and air, but the computer won't support the boost. You'll have to step up to a better, more tuneable aftermarket EFI box (FAST, Big Stuff 3, Holley, etc.) You'll also need to go with bigger injectors, and my hunch is that the Edelbrock fuel pressure regulator won't flow enough to support as much fuel flow as you are going to need (again, time to upgrade.) You will also likely need to step up to a larger electric fuel pump and possibly run larger feed and return lines to keep up with the amount of fuel the engine will require.

Lots of power requires lots of fuel, and you DON'T want to run a boosted engine lean.

Troy

[mazspeed]

Hey guys, thought I would chime in. The ZZ430 motor makes 430 hp and 425ft. This is with the hot cam, roller rockers, and fast burn heads. My engine dynoed at 441hp with regular headers. This was at the crank. We will do tests on the the new air gap and demon carb. The demon carb was on there at the time. I have heard of ZZ430 motors going almost 450hp on dyno tests depending on port work. I'm not sure I would put more then 6 pounds of boost on a stock ZZ430 motor as it might be too much for the pistons.

[streetk14]

Hey guys, thought I would chime in. The ZZ430 motor makes 430 hp and 425ft. This is with the hot cam, roller rockers, and fast burn heads. My engine dynoed at 441hp with regular headers. This was at the crank. We will do tests on the the new air gap and demon carb. The demon carb was on there at the time. I have heard of ZZ430 motors going almost 450hp on dyno tests depending on port work. I'm not sure I would put more then 6 pounds of boost on a stock ZZ430 motor as it might be too much for the pistons.

This thread was about if he could make 600-650 hp out of an otherwise stock, blown ZZ4. The answer was no, unless he was to make some changes to the engine. The ZZ430 has the larger runner fast-burn heads, and is rated at 430 hp. 72nova has a regular ZZ4 with L98 vette heads that don't flow that well. Even with the HOT cam, he will be lucky making 400 hp. That's why I suggested a head upgrade if he's looking to make good power.
-Andy