1958 Porsche 356 + Midmounted Audi V8

[crafty]

Last time I was over in the USA for the Pigeon Forge event in the Temptress, I got thinking about my next project. Its very hard to spend time with Jeff Schwartz and not get totally wrapped up in a new project. I was VERY close to getting him to build me an early Nova, but I decided it was a little too similar to the Temptress, and decided that I'd do something myself this time, over here in Hong Kong.

A few of the Ultima guys are running Audi V8's, Ive aways been a fan of that engine and bought an S4 as a daily driver late last year.... which tipped me over the edge. One thing led to another and I hatched a plan to shove an Audi V8 into a Porsche 356.


I have a construction company over here - we have a Leica Scanstation, we're going to scan the body, and design a full custom chassis in Solidworks. Race Car Replicas in Detroit are going to make me a set of billet alloy A-arms for all 4 corners. Its going to run inbard airbags, disc brakes etc.

Ive scored a 360HP S5 engine from an Audi dealer in Germany with 124km on it. Its an FSI engine (direct injection), the plan is to run the stock ECU, which requires the guages and ignition keys to activate the immobilizer. Ive been told that it is difficult to run the Audi engine on the stock ECU without ALL the other systems in place. There is no aftermarket ECU that will run the FSI, so Im going to give it a shot with the OEM ECU, if that doesnt work, I'll ditch the ECU and the FSI system, mount new injectors and run an aftermarket ECU.


The Porsche 356 has a tiny 2100mm (86") wheelbase! The Audi engine is super short at 464mm, however I'm still going to need to move the rear arches back 4-5 inches, and possibly run a little driveshaft angle

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/audibbk-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/sideandsection-1.jpg

[crafty]

I also scored a brand new transaxle. The one on the engine is a Quattro which is no good to me... I bought a brand new 01x 6 speed from a Diesel.... same one GT40 replica guys use.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/IMG_4273-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/IMG_4265-1.jpg




The car has just left Texas and is on its way to Hong Kong. I bought the cleanest body I could find, I have enough on my plate without having to worry about rust and panel work. As you can see the roof has been replaced with a non-sunroof skin. I did a deal where the guy selling the car gets to keep the sunroof skin if he swaps it for a non-sunroof.... good deal for both of us as it saves me having to do it and he gets a valuable sunroof.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/DSCF0318-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/DSCF0316-1.jpg



Ive started looking for wheels. Im thinking some chunky sidewalls all would would look better than low profiles on this car. I REALLY dig the centerlocks from the RSR porsche with big old fat tires...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/centerloock1-1.jpg

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https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/side-1.jpg

[crafty]

The raditor is going to be mounted up under the rear grille with electric fans. Feed air will be ducted in from the rear 1/4 windows, and it will exhaust out the grilles. The grilles are in a negative pressure area of the car which will assist in air being drawn through when running.

The horizontal placement under the rear grilles will allow for the heat to rise when stationary.

I'm going to run an oil cooler too.

These are very basic concept sketches in Autocad, which is not the ideal program. I've just booked myself and all my draftsmen into a Solidworks course.

Anyway, the idea is that the radiator and the plenums below it will hinge up with the trunk lid to allow access to the engine.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/AirIntake2a-1.jpg

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[FoxGranadaChuck]

This is a really cool project that is definitely "out of the box." I LIKE IT!!

[PhillipM]

Wow, this is going to be sweet!

[bsclark]

That's awesome! I can't wait to see it come together!


On our "scarliner", we ended up adapting the factory harness and computers from the ford gt into the starliner. It was a lot of work, but the end result is totally worth it! Everything has a relay, "smart" cooling fan controls, battery saver relay, etc.

[CruizinKev]

wow sweet!!!

[badbu68]

luv it!

[calforniacuda]

Renegade in Las Vegas has been doing porsche engine swaps for a while. A ls motor with a porsche transaxle will fit in just about anything.

[Restomod]

Nice!! I have toyed with a simillar idea but with a Boxster S combo. I never could get myself to think the shaft angles would work.

[MoparCar]

Awesome project. I love the old 356s. In stock/modified form they are so awesome to watch racing. This will be great. Please keep the updates coming!

Wes

[80 MONZTA]

I like it.
Well all except for the massive blind spots created by the cooling ducts. I test drove a Chevette once that had temporary wood covering the broken passenger side rear quarter window glass. The blind spot was horrible, and I can not recomend covering any window like that. Any way to maybe have them come from the floor instead of those side windows?
[QUOTE=crafty;648276]
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/AirIntake2a-1.jpg

[elitecustombody]

looks like the guys you bought the car from work on 356's,I'm working on 55' 356 cabriolet, do you have their contact info? I'd like to see if they sell repair panels. Cool project BTW, looking forward to seeing the progress

[Motown 454]

This is going to be very interesting to watch.

[Mr.VENGEANCE]

Outlaw style..

[Ron S]

Loving it Grant, hope it makes it over here to play one day. I really think your correcting a design flaw by stretching the wheelbase. It will no longer have that loaded diaper look in the rear. Ron

[crafty]

It will no longer have that loaded diaper look in the rear. Ron

... there might be a few loaded diapers in the passengers seat.

[crafty]

Here's a before and after photoshop of a 356 with the wheels moved back.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/before-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/After-1.jpg

[rat_rod_russell]

Don't forget your safety rivets!!!! We don't want them popping off and killing people when the cars lights up.

This is awesome! I followed your GTR build pretty closely, I also just sold my 1969 911, I was going to make a mid engine V8 swap with a custom chassis and suspension but I had to sell to keep another project going. I'll be watching this for sure.

Thanks for taking the time out to share all this information with us.

-Russell

[crafty]

Don't forget your safety rivets!!!! We don't want them popping off and killing people when the cars lights up.


HAHAHA.... You've got a good memory. For everyone else ... the short version is that I put expanding foam inside the chassis to try to cut down on some of the sound... not sure if it worked, but along the way some "expert" was warning me not to do it, just in case the car caught on fire. His reasoning was that the chassis would explode and all the rivets would fly out like shrapnel and injure the people trying to pull me from the burning wreck (that had just exploded)... and that I might get sued.

Funny stuff... he was serious and posted all sorts of scientific reasoning... he left soon after I suggested putting safety straps on the rivets.... I cant find the original thread, but this is the one that made him leave.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=20&t=252246

Every forum has at least one of these guys.... this particular one was quite special.

[ZVT]

WOW that is awesome I have had this vision for a 356 for many many years now in fact this was done in early 2002-2003 and been sitting in my head....

Garage dog on lat G is building something similar with a LSx...

Its gonna be an awesome ride...

Heres the chop I did

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[andrewb70]

Looking forward to more progress. Great project!

Andrew

[helzbelz888]

looks so Bada$$!!! cant wait to see more!

[Paul_J]

Nice project! I'm building a '54 Beetle with a mid mounted V8 and a Boxter Transaxle. I have been thinking about switching to the Audi V8 in order to un-complicate things. I will be very interested in your progress.

[crafty]

Paul.... some more info on the Audi V8 over here>>

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=20&t=789702&mid=35600&i=0&nmt=Audi%20dimensions&mid=35600

Also check out all the links in my post in this thread.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=20&t=828887&mid=35600&nmt=Info%20needed%20on%20Audi%20S4%204.2%20V8%20in to%20an%20ultima


And here's some Audi porn..... a V8, a couple of V10s and a V6.

There's a few guys out there with individual throttle body kits...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/Picture0036-1.jpg?t=1269689786

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/AUDIV10KMSb-1.jpg?t=1269689895

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[ProMav71]

^^^ that orange one is a sexy beast.

[78 Type-LT]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/AUDIV10KMSb-1.jpg?t=1269689895


That is sweet

[Bjkadron]

AMAZING!!!!! of all the cars I had thought about modifying I have never once thought of a 356! This is going to be sweet! I think it actually looks better with the wheels back farther.

[monza]

Love the project. Also gives me some inspiration to get my Corvair LSX project moving.

[Tig]

Subscribed
Awesome project. Lookin forward to this build.

[Ash]

Very proper build. Can't the blind spot issue with a couple high quality full time video cameras?

[LeighP]

I'd also think about ducting from the floor beneath the car (behind the seats)....I think it would look cleaner and relieve the blind spot issue.....and sucking air from under a car is never a bad thing...lol.

[crafty]

I picked up the car on may 4th...... down to the pier .... loaded it on a truck...took it home and it had its first taste of Audi power as it was pulled up the hill.

The perspective in the side-on photos make the engine look bigger than it is, its definietly tight, but its gonna fit nicely.

The 'box attached to the engine is a quattro that came with the engine, it is fookin' MASSIVE compared to the FWD box that I will be using.

The airboxes on the side of the floor are perfect for running the chassis tubes, Im gonna cut the bottom of the boxes out.

After seeing the car in the flesh I was happy to see there is room in the front to chuck the radiator. It will even out the weight, and separate some of the heat, just gotta deal with exhaust and engine heat now.



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[crafty]

We started the scanning on 9th May, here’s the setup.
The scanner sits on a tripod.
The scanner comes with a set of “Targets”, 3 of these are set up in fixed locations.
When the car is scanned, these 3 targets are also scanned and registered in the database.
Later, when we want to stitch together multiple scans, these 3 points are used to register each scan to the next.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/scannersetup1-1.jpg



This is what they look like up close, when you “register” each of these targets the scanner does a very dense scan, and determines the X,Y,Z co-ordinate of the centre of the white dot.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/scannersetup2-1.jpg


This is what the scanner looks like up close. The green line represents the path of the laser. The rotating mirror bounces the laser to the environment and measured X,Y,Z co-ordinates of the object it hits. The head of the scanner moves left to right.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/scannersetup31-1.jpg



The first pass of the scanner was done at 100mm x 100mm, this is to make sure the scanner is aiming at the correct area. The redline indicates the fence we used for the first scan. As you can see, it didn’t pick up the lower part of the car.
The fence for the scan was then adjusted and a second pass was done at 1mm x 1mm.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/scannersetup4-1.jpg





Here’s the finished scan from the second pass.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/046-1.jpg





Here’s another view of the scan from the first location. In the image above, you are looking at the data from the angle that the data was scanned.
If we rotate the data slightly, you can see that there is a “shadow” behind the objects.
The data is called a “point cloud”, it’s a series of points that are the X,Y,Z co-ordinates of each shot that the laser fired.
This scanner shoots 4,000 points per second.
This particular scan took about 15 minutes….. so its about 3,600,000 points.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/049-2.jpg





Next step is to move the scanner around to the rear of the same side of the car. As before you can see the more dense information is being written over the initial (less dense) scan… a little of the less dense scan is visible at the rear of the car. The 3 targets are also scanned with the scanner in this location.





https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/080-1.jpg




Then we moved it inside the car.




https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/111-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/120-1.jpg




You can see that there is a lot of extra data (ground, trees etc) in the scan. When we register all the scans together we will cut out this extra ****.
After the data is cleaned up, we’ll convert it into a mesh. Basically the points are joined together into a series of triangles, the mesh can then be brought into Solidworks and we can start detailing the chassis etc.

We didn’t get around to scanning the engine and trans, the scanner started to get a connection error that was pissing us off, hopefully it is the cable.

We did however rip the Quattro (AWD) box off and put the 2WD box on.

We struggled for an hour or so trying to get the engine and trans separated.
We had the engine on an engine hoist, at the trans supported on a chain block.
No matter what we tried we couldn’t get the ****ing thing off the engine…….so as a last resort we looked at the workshop manual and found that Audi have a flexplate and ring gear bolted to the crank, and the flywheel is bolted to the flexplate…….so when you separate the trans from the engine, the flywheel and clutch stay with the trans.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/trans1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/trans2-1.jpg




Audi’s have the engine north/south in both the front wheel drive cars and the AWD cars. The AWD box has 2 output shafts on the side for the front wheels and one out the back that goes to a rear diff. Check out the difference in size, the Quattro box is huge.



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/061-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/05/064-1.jpg



All in all, a good start. We now have the 2WD box fitted to the engine, the great news is that the bolt pattern is the same, from checking around the net it seems that the earlier RS4 clutch and flywheel will work, I’ve sent out emails to 3 companies and waiting for a response.

[crafty]

I made a styrofoam box about the same shape as the engine....its a little bit bigger here and there on the sides, but the height is correct. Its just for getting an idea of engine position, height etc.

For those of you that thought the scanner was too high tech, Ive gone old school last night with a hammer, shotbag and the english wheel. These are all new toys, I did a 3 day course with Ron Fournier last year and was totally hooked.

This is a first draft and obviously still needs work to get it properly shaped, its not trimmed properly at the front either and the mesh is just pushed in there... I'm going to rough out one side of the car with a few different options before I decide which shape I will use for the scoop.

I think the drip rail has to go.

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[BuddyP]

Awsome! I love it!

[Tiger]

this is great.
You are good with metal for taking a three day course only!

[78 Type-LT]

Can't wait to see this come together

[John Wright]

Neat project!....you must be a quick learner as noted in a post above for only taking a 3 day course and was able to pound out a multi radiused piece for your duct. Lovin the glimpse of the "racing seat" in those pics of the interior...LOL....might want to upholster that thing in some black vinyl or leather...hahahaha

[PhillipM]

Man, I love all the pictures! And nice work on the side vent.

[Phantom_LS2]

This project has forced me to make my first post. I totally love it! Has to be one of the most unique builds I've ever seen.



BTW, you wouldn't be looking at hiring anyone would ya? LOL I do have 9 years of mechanical designing experience with 4 of those doing 3D modeling.

Good luck on the rest of the build.

[John Wright]

This project has forced me to make my first post. I totally love it! Has to be one of the most unique builds I've ever seen.



BTW, you wouldn't be looking at hiring anyone would ya? LOL I do have 9 years of mechanical designing experience with 4 of those doing 3D modeling.

Good luck on the rest of the build.Welcome.....

[Phantom_LS2]

Welcome.....


Thank you sir

[crafty]

....you must be a quick learner as noted in a post above for only taking a 3 day course and was able to pound out a multi radiused piece for your duct.

Its really not that difficult.... check out the course. On the 3rd day you make a scaled down Cobra fender.... I was totally shocked that I could do that within 3 days. I used to be a carpenter about 16 years ago, so have some experience with tools, but the course is really good, and these tools are relatively easy to get the hang of.

Ron Fournier has written a load of books and made a load of videos on metalforming. He is an excellent teacher.

http://www.fournierenterprises.com/workshop.html



BTW, you wouldn't be looking at hiring anyone would ya?

....ummm.... I live in Hong Kong.... would that be too far to travel every day? :)

[crustysack]

that 356 is awesome and going to school so many unsuspecting people

[Motown 454]

This build amazes me. I can't wait to see more. Awesome build!

[GT500KR_Vert]

very different

[PhillipM]

Updates?

[crafty]

.... I got at it with the angle grinder and oxy Tuesday night and cut the floor out.

Currently mounting the engine on a dolly so I can slide it under and start roughing out position.

Photos after the weekend.

[PhillipM]

Sweet!

[vanwyk4257]

Being a big fan of Porsches and having owned a few over the years I salute you for not being afraid to do a project like this. There are too many purists out there that will gripe about what you're doing to a 356. I for one find it to be a very cool idea. I like the air intakes in the rear quarter windows, it reminds me a bit of the old abarth carrera Porsche race car. You should louver the rear engine lid to mimic that style. Great project, I can't wait to watch it develop!

[crafty]

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[Ron S]

Wow Grant, that is just cool. Although that engine may be short in over all length, it sure is wide. The heads almost seem as wide as a Hemi engine.I Like the way the arm rest could set on the intake manifold, kinda screams racey. The whole project is awesome, one of my favorites. Ron

[Tiger]

Grant,
this is a truly beautiful project!
Is that the final position of the engine? on the pic through the rear window it seems like the halfshafts will come out rearward of the wheel opening but Its really hard to tell.

[Bjkadron]

Amazing! it looks like it was made for it! But will the engine affect tire clearance?

[crafty]

Wow Grant, that is just cool. Although that engine may be short in over all length, it sure is wide. The heads almost seem as wide as a Hemi engine.I Like the way the arm rest could set on the intake manifold, kinda screams racey. The whole project is awesome, one of my favorites. Ron

Yep, its very wide, its about 500mm long and 800mm wide.




Grant,
this is a truly beautiful project!
Is that the final position of the engine? on the pic through the rear window it seems like the halfshafts will come out rearward of the wheel opening but Its really hard to tell.

Yes, the axle centreline is way back, the rear wheelarches are going to be moved back, and widened like the car below



Amazing! it looks like it was made for it! But will the engine affect tire clearance?

Its getting a full chassis and double wishbones all round. At this stage it looks like I will be able to fit 10-11" rubber under the rear.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/Cassiere_rear_strech-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/Cassiere_015-1.jpg

[Scott Parkhurst]

Three

Fifty

Slick

[formula]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/motherofgodsupertroopers-1.jpg

I'm getting excited about this one. I was worried it was just vaporware.

[frankenstang]

Looks awesome Grant. I'm sure your driving buddy Jeff misses you in the Tempest.

Can't wait for more updates!!

[MoparCar]

Great fabrication. Nice work.
Thanks for the updates!

Wes

[elitecustombody]

That's pretty awseome! I was wondering how you plan on getting the weak unibody to support and help transfer the power from V8 to the ground,but just read post #56, can't wait to see it unfold. Awesome build! Did you do the work on the widened 356 as well?

[ArtosDracon]

I like the widened rear fenders a lot, and the engine/tranny seem to fit pretty darn well.

What suspension design are you using for the front?
What spindles for the rear?
How are you designing your double wishbone set-up?

[crafty]

Suspension will be billet alloy - from Race Car Replicas in Detroit - they make some very cool GT40 replicas and a few of their own models like the SLC (see pic at bottom).

All models feature a folded alloy tub with billet alloy suspension and uprights. very very cool stuff. Jeff Schwartz and I were over there at last year's Power Tour and both agreed that if we were looking to buy Ultimas now, we'd buy an SLC rather than an Ultima GTR............... (stay tuned for further details)

RCR are going to customize a standard setup for me.... its definitely going to run airbags, most likely inboard mounted with pushrods and rocker arms.


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[ArtosDracon]

That is definitely an interesting set-up. Wow, a lot of custom work there. You may wan to request ZR1 bearing packs for the rear, they're only an incrementally better design, but they are better, especially with lateral loading. Don't recognize the front off hand.

[John Wright]

I like the widened body too...cool project. Don't recline your seat too much or you might get caught up in the serpentine belt...LOL

[Happyfunballs]

How'd I miss this thread? Subscribed.

[ArtosDracon]

I just noticed something about that rear suspension. It appears that the upper lateral link is on a fulcrum with a pair of rod ends that look like they'll be connected via a center rod. That's a genius idea! would allow for the upper arm to be shimmed in and out just by loosening a pair of lock nuts and rotating the center bar. Upper link length wouldn't change, so you could retain static camber and caster curves, but static camber could be changed. That's a brilliantly simple solution.

Oh, accept the center is going to have to be fixed, so each side will have to be adjusted individually, lol. Brains obviously not at full speed yet. If it wasn't fixed at some central point the suspension could shift side to side and wreak havoc on the geometry during roll. Oops, still like the idea.

[crafty]

I chucked the wheels off the S4 under it just for the hell of it.

The front tires wont turn if positioned as they are in these pics. I'd need to either

move them inboard (mmm... maybe)
run the car higher (I dont think so)
flare the guards (I want to avoid this if possible)
radius the guards

... some more mockups and maybe some photoshops required.


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[SaturnVUEguy]

That look killer like it is. After seeing all the other stuff you've come up with, I'm sure you'll figure something out for the front fenders without much problem

[Motown 454]

I love this body style and your project.
subscribed!

[James21]

wow awesome work so far!

[exwestracer]

I just noticed something about that rear suspension. It appears that the upper lateral link is on a fulcrum with a pair of rod ends that look like they'll be connected via a center rod. That's a genius idea! would allow for the upper arm to be shimmed in and out just by loosening a pair of lock nuts and rotating the center bar. Upper link length wouldn't change, so you could retain static camber and caster curves, but static camber could be changed. That's a brilliantly simple solution.

Oh, accept the center is going to have to be fixed, so each side will have to be adjusted individually, lol. Brains obviously not at full speed yet. If it wasn't fixed at some central point the suspension could shift side to side and wreak havoc on the geometry during roll. Oops, still like the idea.

Doesn't make much sense, IMO. It looks like the upper links already have turnbuckle adjustment built in. Doesn't seem like you'd need to change the static camber so much that it would screw up the camber curve appreciably... I'm thinking that system might have another purpose...? Active camber change perhaps?

[ArtosDracon]

Doesn't make much sense, IMO. It looks like the upper links already have turnbuckle adjustment built in. Doesn't seem like you'd need to change the static camber so much that it would screw up the camber curve appreciably... I'm thinking that system might have another purpose...? Active camber change perhaps?

Now there's an idea, it would have to be one hell of a complex system to do much good, but it would be cool.

[Paul_J]

I would vote for a combination of:

flare the guards
radius the guards

My '54 Beetle will have a similar problem. I'm going to cut up an old fender and move the wheel opening up. Since the fender curves so much at the top I will have to add some flare in order to move the wheel opening up and not in. I want it to be as subtle as possible. Something that makes someone not in the "know" wonder what is different. I think this is one of those areas where a little would be good but too much would be UGLY!

[crafty]

I need to make a decision between 15's with baggy rubber or bigger rims and low profile rubber.

After chucking these under there I'm warming to the low profiles.

The wheels I threw under there are wearing 235/30R19's.... something about 2" smaller overall would help a lot....

Maybe I need to move down to 17's or even 16's at the front.

Photoshop time I think.

[elitecustombody]

I like the Meister's on there,make them work,they look great

[ill steez]

I like the Meister's on there,make them work,they look great


Yea, same. They look very appropriate on there... but 17s or 18s may look a little better.

[crafty]

here's what NOT to do:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/porsche_356_speedster_replica-1.jpg

[elitecustombody]

That's a kit car, I doubt anyone would be so dumb to ruin a real Speedster

[Bjkadron]

here's what NOT to do:


I saw one today that makes that one look good! Where do these people get their taste?!

[vanwyk4257]

Good gawd that looks awesome with the S4 wheels underneath! I absolutely love this project. I really hope you post this project over on Rennlist or some other Porsche sites too just to piss of the purists!

[crafty]

... crappy online photo editor..... but you get the idea.

I'm thinking radiusing the guards will do the trick..."maybe" go down to an 18" rim at the front?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/biggerwheelarch1-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/IMG_0025-1.jpg

[TonyL]

I wouldn't change the wheel arches. It'll change the proportions way to much front to rear. Moving the suspension inboard is the more elegant solution. IMHO.

[BirdsThaWord]

I know it would be a rediculous amount of work, but think it might look cool with a Vette type scallop and no post:

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif (http://img99.imageshack.us/i/porsche.png/)

[crafty]

oooohhh..... that looks sick without the post!!! That was actually one of my original thoughts, but I dont think there's enough room for the rear glass to go inside the fender..... I should check that out.

... I need some sort of venting to the side of the engine, if I dont change the rear 1/4 windows to scoops, then I'd need a side scoop between the door and the rear wheel arch.

Thanks for the photochop..... you've inspired me to look into this again.

Any creative photochop suggestions are welcome guys.

[Bjkadron]

I wouldn't change the wheel arches..

But shaving the post would look SICK! So cool!

[1BAGTO]

Wheel arches the easy fix. You definately don't look like you're following the easy route anywhere else, so why the wheel arches? What about flaring the front the same way that you did the rear, to give it the wide body look. Just another option. Looks bad ass by the way!!

[crafty]

Perhaps its my crappy photoshop skills that's making the arch look so big.... I taped up the fender with black electrical tape over the weekend and it doesnt need to be cut as much as the photoshop is.


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/tapedwheelarch-1.jpg

[Bjkadron]

Perhaps its my crappy photoshop skills that's making the arch look so big.... I taped up the fender with black electrical tape over the weekend and it doesnt need to be cut as much as the photoshop is.

I still don't think it looks right.. But, that is my opinion.

[TonyL]

Thing is, that fender arch difference follows the line of the car, the distance is the same from the top of the fender to the fender lip, front and rear. If you alter this, it will look "off". I know the saying goes "form follows function" and this design while functional, in the case of this iconic body, i'd follow form first.

The car just looks "right" with it tucking the tire up under the fender.

[crafty]

OK..... here's the 245/35R18's off the front of the Ultima.

I need to get hold of a set of 17's and see how they look under the wheel arch

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/004-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/0061-1.jpg







and without the radiused arches

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/019-1.jpg




and set back "almost" far enough to allow the wheels to turn a decent lock, these are too wide to go in any further.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/002-1.jpg

[elitecustombody]

I agree with Tony, do not cut the arches, if you do, you'll have to do the rears as well and that takes away alot from timeless lines of the body, if anything, widen the front like the rear you posted pics of.Don't get me wrong, I like cut arches as well, but it makes the car look like a racecar

[twosaturns]

the car is too small to run such a large wheel. I had a customer years ago w/ a mid '80's 911, tire sizes were 15x7 205/60 front and 15x8 225/60 rear, IIRC. seems small by todays standards, but looked 'right'.
I would like to see 15" minilites on this 356.

[jackfrost]

have you considered trying to move the entire wheelwell up instead of cutting things out? I would either do that or widen the fenders.

[jp455]

Not sure what you want to do with the car but if it has very stiff suspension you might get away with that. Looks great regardless!!

[ALLKAR]

raised arches

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif



https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[elitecustombody]

looks good

[jp455]

That looks good! How about a little more extreme, and with 17 in rims to look like this?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/screenpic-1.jpg

[BirdsThaWord]

You could def get away with it if you bag it. You could drop it to the concrete when parked!:firefire:I wish you were building that car for me!!!

[crafty]

its gonna be bagged.... working with Race Car Replicas on a billet suspension setup with pushrods and inboard bags.... check a few pages back.

[BirdsThaWord]

its gonna be bagged.... working with Race Car Replicas on a billet suspension setup with pushrods and inboard bags.... check a few pages back.
Sorry about that! I had read the full article a while back and forgot.

[T00LMAN]

Great build that I have been following. Not sure if the suspension is similar to a VW type I but on those you can shorten the front end fairly easily. Have you looked into that? Sorry if I do not know what I am talking about when it come to Porsches.

Here are a few cars that I have been involved with...

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/Dsc01075-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/DSC02534-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/DSC02544-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/DSC08104-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/DSC08115-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/DSC07742-1.jpg

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/DSC08141-1.jpg

[exwestracer]

oooohhh..... that looks sick without the post!!! That was actually one of my original thoughts, but I dont think there's enough room for the rear glass to go inside the fender..... I should check that out.

... I need some sort of venting to the side of the engine, if I dont change the rear 1/4 windows to scoops, then I'd need a side scoop between the door and the rear wheel arch.

Thanks for the photochop..... you've inspired me to look into this again.

Any creative photochop suggestions are welcome guys.

Awesome build, and I can't wait to see how it turns out.

Regarding the quarter window area, have you given any thought to running plexi or lexan windows with a big NACA duct built into the rear corner of the window?

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

Sorry, I can't chop it for you, but imagine the duct moved down and back and blended into the corner of the window. Obviously, a much bigger duct would suit your cooling needs and fit the larger radius on the 356...

[GTRRRR]

Hi Guys love this project which got me thinking about a vw type3 that was racing in Australia in the mid seventies

Car ran Mclaren m10b running gear (formula 5000) and a chevy v8 in the back,i think at some point it ran double over head cams (aussie made) and fuel injection

And in 2010 it would make for a great project with an audi v8 etc

I will post a couple of pics if thats ok

[Pro-Buick]

Great build that I have been following. Not sure if the suspension is similar to a VW type I but on those you can shorten the front end fairly easily. Have you looked into that? Sorry if I do not know what I am talking about when it come to Porsches.

Here are a few cars that I have been involved with...



Don't try to mix old vee-dub "technology" with this great build...
People in the Aircooled scene narrow front beam to lower the car on the floor without any regards for handling and performance, only to go slow and in straight line.
The only good road racing beetles are the Superbeetles with Mc Pherson front beam that you can be improved with Porsche suspension and brake parts. A 356 is similar to an old beetle, not to a Superbeetle.
In Germany someone has modified a Karmann Ghia with an improved Superbeetle front suspension and 993 RS Porsche engine and brakes (look at : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSWtxSl5_PA&feature=related )
You can see the front suspension in the movie at 2:41.
I don't speak german but i have the article in a magazine.

You have a great car! i love it... , is it absolutely necessary to relocate the rear wheel arches ?

David

[x98boardwell]

This thing will be hard to handle. What do you intend to do to keep it in a straight line with that short wheel base?

Here are some pics of a friend of mines car. It has a 930 turbo motor in it. Over 300+ hp..

Look forward to following this thread.

Bryan

[Small Block LSX]

What a sweet build.

[CruizinKev]

wow nice fab work! :twothumbs

[Restomod]

Bumpo.....Update??????

[StRacerDuke]

Looks like a fun project.

[Thomo5150]

Any updates on this??? I looked at the same engine and gearbox combo for my race car. When I sat the motor in the driveshaft angels where two low. Only fix I found was the inverted Porsche 930 4 speed transaxle. Which is a short box as well.

regards Tim

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/noimg.gif

[Restomod]

Two months since a post and almost one month since he has logged in ......Something may have gone south on this project. I hope not I was thinking about a simillar 356 project.

[Thomo5150]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/03/AUDIV10KMSb-1.jpg?t=1269689895


That is sweet

The other thing they need to consider is the FSI fuel injection on the motor. These guys are doing custom throttle bodies!!! Pity they couldn't build one piece billet fuel rails. The one they have there are an accident waiting to happen. Wrong type of clamps on the high pressure fuel lines...........

[ill steez]

any updates on this?

[showa]

maybe Ray's Bug build discouraged him ?

[454bug]

maybe Ray's Bug build discouraged him ?

I sure hope not!! They are two totally different projects...

I REALLY like this project but he's got some big hurdles to cross. I'm sure he'll work them out with more time and money... isn't that the answer to all our problems? :jump:

Hopefully, he just had some other priorities that took him away from it for a while. :fingersx:

Sometimes it's tough to keep the fire burning on these projects with work, family, money commitments and obligations, and just plain "life" going on around us...

[ironworks]

This is sure a cool project I look forward to seeing more work completed. The Audi engine and transaxle are super cool.

[Garage Dog 65]

Check his home page.

http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/foru...a42cb12c7bb4c1 (http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4932&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=3d46310d17d3c35a7ba42cb12c7bb4c1)

Looks like his business has him tied up right now.

Beautiful work Crafty !

Jim
__________________
My Project: 65 Porsche 356G

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=5109

[67 ls1 vert]

wow, I haven't seen this one yet... just saw it because it was brought back to the top. Cool build indeed. To bad it stopped. I'll keep an eye out also.

[Garage Dog 65]

... crappy online photo editor..... but you get the idea.

I'm thinking radiusing the guards will do the trick..."maybe" go down to an 18" rim at the front?




I used 17 in front and 18 in back. I can turn full lock on the fronts with a bit of tuck there. I'm doing a pie cut in the back just like obsolete porsche did - that let's me push the rears out farther - or add wider wheels/tires in back. (these don't have enough lip)

Jim
__________________
My Project: 65 Porsche 356G

http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=5109 (http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=5109)

[icebird84]

very nice project

[absintheisfun]

any updates on this one? It was awesome to watch this come together.

[crafty]

Its crawling along, I got tied up with work late last year - quite a lot of travel out of town.

I did a little more work on it over Xmas, I wasnt happy with the panels I'd made for the engine cover/firewall, so started again.

Ive also been working on getting the Ultima ready for a bit of track work, fitting accusump, cold air intake, fire system etc etc...... I'm sending it to Zhuhai, which is an hour's ferry ride from Hong Kong.

...... oh.... and I have a confession..... I've invested in Schwartz Performance and we've brought the chassis building in house. Got some great things in the pipeline, stay tuned.

[absintheisfun]

keep us updated-the uniqueness and technical awesomeness is great to watch unfold.

[WS6]

...... oh.... and I have a confession..... I've invested in Schwartz Performance and we've brought the chassis building in house. Got some great things in the pipeline, stay tuned.

I sure hope this works out well for everyone involved. Keep us posted on all the new plans and products and good luck.

[Motown 454]

Sweet . I'll be watching for your updates.

[Zanie]

i smell a project update......

[Daves69Coupe]

just saw this thread. Wow what a build. Hope for updates soon.

[Schwartz Performance]

Not sure if this is considered a huge update, or very minor...

We haven't started on it, but the 356 arrive last month from Hong Kong.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7630825502_5b813d0575_c-1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/7630825502/)
DSCN9443 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/7630825502/) by Schwartz Performance (http://www.flickr.com/people/schwartzperf/)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7630564934_78de403dce_c-1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/7630564934/)
DSCN9429 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/7630564934/) by Schwartz Performance (http://www.flickr.com/people/schwartzperf/)
https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2012/07/7630566742_9d3a541927_c-1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/7630566742/)
DSCN9450 2 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/7630566742/) by Schwartz Performance (http://www.flickr.com/people/schwartzperf/)

[Daves69Coupe]

Yes! cant wait to see the updates of whats to come!

[Evoix]

look forward to seeing this build... hopefully it is still going to happen?

[SaturnVUEguy]

Is somehow missed the last few posts and just now saw Jeff's post. Now that its at Schwartz I know it'll turn out good! I'd still love to work there, hint hint

[Daves69Coupe]

Updates please!

[rfalker1]

I agree.. updates... you are teasing us!!!!!

[rustomatic]

I saw somewhere that this guy has a Falcon now...

[theterryhughes]

So I am looking for basically the same transaxle you are using. Do you have the hookup?

[novaboy009]

This thing is going to be ridiculous. Looking forward to see how the chassis comes together for this monster.

[Josh@Ridetech]

That's amazing, I can't wait to see that thing done!

[Dave B]

Man, that is sweet!

[1nastyZ06]

Wow!!! That's all I can say

[craigs73]

hope this build continues :machine:

[crafty]

Well... over Xmas I decided that work and life has got in the way of this project for too long, its now moving forward.

Im going to be moving from Hong Kong back to Australia in the next year, and the Porsche is going back there.

Before it does though, its going to get a Schwartz chassis under it.

Due to the laws in Australia regarding modified cars, its a little easier if I use production suspension, so I just bought this 997 Porsche suspension and brake package, which will be with Jeff next week.

So there should be more updates over the next month or so.

EDIT - photo on ebay as was boxster suspension ..... we're using 997.


90221
90222
90223

[SaturnVUEguy]

Good to hear there will be progress. Looking forward to it!

[MSTSFabbed]

Woot Woot! Keep us posted!

[rustomatic]

Okay, so I'm the next dork to push for this thing's progress. Let's see it getting together before I find myself in law school, with no time to fritter away on things metal-related...

[chalina_sbt]

Ahh - love it - cant wait to see more of this project & the direction its heading in. its a credit to your creative side for sure. I wish every boss had your vision & enthusiasm - putting all your draftspersons into a solidworks course - well done. great to see someone with the vision & respect to see the cad put to good use.

[crafty]

FINALLY.......... the wheels are in motion again with the clever chaps at Schwartz Performance doing their thing.

Audi S5 V8 + 997 brakes and suspension.


Lots of pics here https://www.flickr.com/photos/schwartzperf/sets/72157649255971929/

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15791743360_8d9fc1c8d0-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q4sP8f)_DSC6738 (https://flic.kr/p/q4sP8f) by Schwartz Performance (https://www.flickr.com/people/78725196@N08/), on Flickr

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15979027015_40e3446e44-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qm1G2M)_DSC6734 (https://flic.kr/p/qm1G2M) by Schwartz Performance (https://www.flickr.com/people/78725196@N08/), on Flickr

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15793070939_2e49ec75c7-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/q4zBLx)_DSC6745 (https://flic.kr/p/q4zBLx) by Schwartz Performance (https://www.flickr.com/people/78725196@N08/), on Flickr

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15987714762_ea7c7695a0-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qmMdAw)_DSC6886 (https://flic.kr/p/qmMdAw) by Schwartz Performance (https://www.flickr.com/people/78725196@N08/), on Flickr

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/15986398491_86898a5e08-1.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/qmEtjc)_DSC6908 (https://flic.kr/p/qmEtjc) by Schwartz Performance (https://www.flickr.com/people/78725196@N08/), on Flickr

[Motown 454]

Great to hear. They do some awesome stuff in their shop.

[Gil]

Cray project... Awesome work, happy it's going forward !
Gil

[linkstar69]

Subscribed, can't wait for this one to be down under. Whereabouts in Australia are you moving?

[SaturnVUEguy]

Good to see more progress and an update! Glad to know the project hasn't been scrapped or forgotten

[bonecrrusher]

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2014/12/borat-1.jpg

[HomeBuilt]

Yep, its very wide, its about 500mm long and 800mm wide.





Yes, the axle centreline is way back, the rear wheelarches are going to be moved back, and widened like the car below




Its getting a full chassis and double wishbones all round. At this stage it looks like I will be able to fit 10-11" rubber under the rear.

https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/Cassiere_rear_strech-1.jpg


https://static1.pt-content.com/images/pt/2010/06/Cassiere_015-1.jpg

I'm with everyone else...i can't even handle how awesome this project is and i'm only on page 3!!

[crafty]

The photos above are not my car.... but we are going to do the same thing with the rear fenders

[77tony]

Subscribed ! T

[DrFraZZy]

subscribed

[85coupe50]

Fantastic!

[BMR Sales]

Very Cool, but I've owned a bunch of Porsches. Emory's has built a ton of 356 Hot-Rods

[chevyz240]

Very cool and serious project! I am looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

Henrik

[dangina]

I'm loving where this project is going!!!

[77tony]

Anything new to report ? T