Running solid steel lower control arm bushings on the street?

[brrymnvette]

I'm going to be starting on my g-body frame resto soon and was thinking about solid steel lower control arm bushings from Afco. Obviously since I'm on here, I'm into the PT aspect and need the car to handle. I assume I'm going to give up a little "cush" in the ride department.Thoughts on them for a DD?

[LSx_88_Ciera]

The cons outweigh the pros for anything but a track only car IMHO.
What are you using for the suspension?
Are you doing anything to increase the torsional strength of the chassis?
A stiffer chassis will give better handling and ride since it allows the suspension to work better.

[monteboy84]

If the suspension geometry is setup right, the ride shouldn't be too harsh with solid bushings.

[AM.MSCL]

IMO and what I am planning for my build is Poly on the bottom Control arms and Delrin or Del-a-lum on the top CA. for my front suspension. I have had the del-a-lum on bottom of a DD and was did not like the setup like that.

[brrymnvette]

The cons outweigh the pros for anything but a track only car IMHO.
What are you using for the suspension?
Are you doing anything to increase the torsional strength of the chassis?
A stiffer chassis will give better handling and ride since it allows the suspension to work better.

I'm using all stock components for now. Will upgrade as budget allows.Normal bracing for g-bodys is it. I may box the frame while I'm POR-15'ing it. You're all over my posts this morn. :)

[ATOMonkey]

Solid bushings typically lead to chassis cracks as well as harsh ride.

A nice poly bushing will still absorb shock and vibration without being so flexible that your control arm wanders around.

[John Wright]

Problem with metal on metal is wear and they get sloppy after a while. But other than that...I don't have any problems with solid bushings on a street car as long as they are greaseable and replaceable. Just keep an eye on the wear.

Harshness, or Excessive road noise, believe it or not, shouldn't be as big of a problem as you might think. The slicker and smoother the bushing lets the suspension work, the more the spring and shock will absorb and not transmit as much road vibs back to the chassis. If things are binding, then you will get more road noise/feel back.
just my two pennies worth

[brrymnvette]

SO, how would I know if it's binding? I see that term used alot, but don't really know what it means. To me, if the control arm is binding, it means it physically can't move. So how could that be possible?

[John Wright]

You can work the control arm without the spring installed and see for yourself how much effort it takes.....if you need a jack to get it to move...it's binding.

BTW, I was a believer in Delalums after I installed a set and saw for myself the difference from the old poly bushings that I had previously. The poly took sigificantly more effort to move the suspension through it's range of motion.

[brrymnvette]

Makes perfect sense. I always just attributed that to the bushings being stiff and the bolts being really tight. Thanks for learning me today! Now I can go home. I've learned my knowledge for the day! WOOHOO!

Thanks!

[Jim Nilsen]

Guldstrand installs bearings in the Corvette control arms taking out all of the slack yet they are a smoother ride they say because of the ease of movement. He calls it STICKTION as to what the stock bushings do.

I always vote for softer suspension stiffer car so handling is better at no cost to the ride comfort but you can do both.

[86Cutlass383SR]

I've got Del-A-Lums in my Cutlass and I won't go back to poly or even stock bushings. The DAL's let the suspension do what it's supposed to do...move. I think it rides better that the other style bushings.

[brrymnvette]

I've got Del-A-Lums in my Cutlass and I won't go back to poly or even stock bushings. The DAL's let the suspension do what it's supposed to do...move. I think it rides better that the other style bushings.

Where did you get them at? I haven't seen them for these cars?

[dipren443]

Guldstrand installs bearings in the Corvette control arms taking out all of the slack yet they are a smoother ride they say because of the ease of movement. He calls it STICKTION as to what the stock bushings do.

I always vote for softer suspension stiffer car so handling is better at no cost to the ride comfort but you can do both.

Stiction is universally used to describe this. Let me look up an exact definition... Consider it a contraction of Static and Friction :P

"Two solid objects pressing against each other (but not sliding) will require some threshold of force parallel to the surface of contact in order to overcome static cohesion. Stiction is a threshold, not a continuous force."


And yes, to echo what everyone else has said. AVOID POLY. Del-alums are the way to go. Just make sure they are greasable.

[John Wright]

http://search.store.yahoo.net/cgi-bin/nsearch?catalog=yhst-57874746327091&vwcatalog=yhst-57874746327091&query=delalum&x=8&y=3

[brrymnvette]

Well, del-a-lum from Global West is $130
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GLS-1024/

And the solid steel from Afco is $17
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20069/

Or the Lightweight Afco with nylon inserts for $30
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20069LW/


So, it's either poly or the Afco for the lowers.

Why do you say avoid poly?

[dipren443]

Well, del-a-lum from Global West is $130
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/GLS-1024/

And the solid steel from Afco is $17
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20069/

Or the Lightweight Afco with nylon inserts for $30
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-20069LW/


So, it's either poly or the Afco for the lowers.

Why do you say avoid poly?

The aforementioned bind. Personally, I think a good high durometer rubber is as good or better than poly. I think there is a source for generic Del-alums. Let me see if I can find it. The key to a smooth ride is limiting friction at your pivot points. The important factor here too is that you use GOOD shocks. Still looking for the other source of del-alums....

[John Wright]

Poly was supposed to be a compromise between a solid rubber bushing and a solid steel bushing.

The rubber acts different in that it adds a little spring rate because of the elasticity of the material as it tries to twist up as the control arm rotates through it's range of motion. A rubber bushing does not rotate, it twists. But rubber allows the control arm to move about on it's axis and change your alignment during hard cornering loads. For stock suspensions on 1960's tire technology that was fine and was cheaper for the car mfg to produce in mass quantities and would probably live for most of the life of the car unlike a steel bushing.

The steel bushing actually acts like a bearing in that it rotates with the control arm and doesn't deflect under high loads like the rubber.

The poly tries to do both jobs but kinda falls short of either material.

[BonzoHansen]

My 77 Camaro has GW D-A-L LCA bushings. Steel UCA bushings in the SPC arms. GW solid body bushings, Hotchkiss TVS & bilstein for the rest. Car rides great, not harsh at all.