AFX Spindles Finally Arrived!

[RatTouring]

After many weeks - my AFX spindles finally showed.

They are well worth the wait. I almost purchased the L&H Kustoms pieces but decided the AFX were a better deal on cost.

(mainly since my AFX spindles showed up!!!)

Anyone have performance data on the a comparison of the two?

Here's the assembled suspension.
Speedtech A-Arms, QA1 Coilovers, etc

http://www.brokenboltgarage.net/reassembly.htm

[JustinB]

Dig the user name Nick!

[RatTouring]

Let's see if I can start a trend!

If anyone needs a balls out set of wheels - call Justin!!!!!

[L & H Kustoms]

...... I almost purchased the L&H Kustoms pieces but decided the AFX were a better deal on cost.


Looks good installed.... but actually Our package deal (spindles, hubs & brackets) https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65803 when purchased together $1075 are cheaper than the afx spindles. Performance wise there is no noticeable difference between the two although our Pro Billet™ spindle is stronger and lighter than the afx spindle based on destructive testing.

[RatTouring]

Hey Luke - thanks for the reply. That statement was before I realized that Speedtech raised the price to $1099. I just looked. I paid $899 for the AFX units - if delivery was going to be an issue you were my next phone call. I ordered the AFX units and then saw your stuff featured in one of the magazines a month later. So my statement was based on that I didn't know or realized STP raised the price. Thanks for putting out a product to keep the options out there for guys like me.

Nick

[killer69]

Looks good installed.... but actually Our package deal (spindles, hubs & brackets) https://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65803 when purchased together $1075 are cheaper than the afx spindles. Performance wise there is no noticeable difference between the two although our Pro Billet™ spindle is stronger and lighter than the afx spindle based on destructive testing.


how much stronger?
how much lighter?
24 dollars cheeper.

[L & H Kustoms]

Hey Luke - thanks for the reply. That statement was before I realized that Speedtech raised the price to $1099. I just looked. I paid $899 for the AFX units - if delivery was going to be an issue you were my next phone call. I ordered the AFX units and then saw your stuff featured in one of the magazines a month later. So my statement was based on that I didn't know or realized STP raised the price. Thanks for putting out a product to keep the options out there for guys like me.

Nick

Nick No problem your car is looking good and all your new parts are definitely gonna make it handle very nicely. I saw a need in the market and designed the spindles to fill the void. Its always better for everyone to have different options available as not everyone wants to only have one choice. Looking forward to watching the progress on your car

[L & H Kustoms]

how much stronger?
how much lighter?
24 dollars cheeper.

Blake The afx spindle broke at the lower balljoint with just over 26k lbs of force applied during the destructive testing. During our destructive testing our Pro Billet™ spindles did not break with 50k lbs of force being applied. Yes it did deform but it did not break or have any cracks.

As far as weight difference our Pro Billet™ spindles fully loaded are 1.9 lbs lighter than an oem spindle and the afx spindles fully loaded are 1.5 lbs lighter than an oem spindle

As far as being cheaper yes they are ($24 cheaper) and We are also offering free shipping thru the end of march which saves an additional $25-50. In my previous post I was not trying to "bash" the afx spindle but only reply to the comments that were stated by the OP.

Nick I did not mean to hijack your thread sorry

[TitoJones]

Blake The afx spindle broke at the lower balljoint with just over 26k lbs of force applied during the destructive testing. During our destructive testing our Pro Billet™ spindles did not break with 50k lbs of force being applied. Yes it did deform but it did not break or have any cracks.

As far as weight difference our Pro Billet™ spindles fully loaded are 1.9 lbs lighter than an oem spindle and the afx spindles fully loaded are 1.5 lbs lighter than an oem spindle

As far as being cheaper yes they are ($24 cheaper) and We are also offering free shipping thru the end of march which saves an additional $25-50. In my previous post I was not trying to "bash" the afx spindle but only reply to the comments that were stated by the OP. Nick I did not mean to hijack your thread sorry

You also tested your spindle in static, meaning the upper ball joint portion of the spindle was retained by the fixture; an impossible way for the spindle to see load on an actual car. We did our test with the spindle in a fixture that allowed the weight of the spindle to reflect the way load would be placed by the suspension on the car; the upper ball joint area was free to move. If we were to do the test in the same way you did yours we would crush your 'my spindle is stronger' bragging rights. A forging will ALWAYS be stronger than a machined billet part. No ifs, and or buts about that one- it's not refutable, don't even bother.

Do a test with the spindle seeing realistic loads on only the lower ball joint and come back to me with a number. I'd bet that it is far less than our forging is.

Tyler

[L & H Kustoms]

...... A forging will ALWAYS be stronger than a machined billet part. No ifs, and or buts about that one- it's not refutable, don't even bother.

Tyler

Tyler you are correct in this statement if the 2 given parts are Identical in design forged vs. Billet Our lower balljoint area is 2-1/8" wide where it appears the afx spindle is around 1-1/4" and the oem steel spindle is 7/8" wide.

We took all of this into consideration in our design. The biggest point is that before our spindle was to fail or even the afx spindle the balljoint will fail first.

So strike my comment about it being stronger. I dont really care nor do I want to get into a flaming session and hijack the thread from the OP. Our Pro Billet spindles are strong enough for the task they were designed for and thats what matters.

I designed the spindle to allow the consumer options in the marketplace. Yes we do mfg billet hubs and brackets when all coupled together is a different means to the same end as the afx spindle but my main intentions was to offer a tall, strong, lightweight spindle which does not have any drop in ride height as there was a void in the market because such a product did not exist and allow the consumer to upgrade as they can afford and if they dont want to upgrade their existing brakes they can still get the benefits of a tall spindle without having to spend thousands right out of the gate.

[RatTouring]

Good discussion - hijack away!!

I probably started this sling fest, not my intent. But as a consumer \ customer it's great to have options. I can't speak for every car guy out there, but price isn't always a decision point , getting the right parts are are. What the right part is - that's a decision each of us make with the info from others and what their and our experiences are.

I'm in an industry where delivery issues and manufacturing points cost the loss of million dollar deals so the stress is and positioning, posturing can be extreme.

I had my eye on the AFX spindles for a while and finally pulled the trigger - but like many of us we are balancing cash distribution between life events and projects.

Bottom line - glad you both have an option - It is guys like you - Luke and Tyler - that make my life easier, make this industry better, and ultimately justifies why I'm still in my hobby regardless of the money spent...

[Rod]

:enguard:

[novaderrik]

is it considered vendor bashing if it's vendors bashing each other?
whatever- a good debate is always a good thing..

[6'9"Witha69]

If it follows the 'bring the tech' mantra, it's all good.

[killer69]

it is all good , now there are 2 options, one is Forged with the large corvette hubs (one advantage that people don't think of is the lack of an actual spindle, nut and cap, this can allow a much thinner wheel mounting pad which will FAR out weigh the .4lb of weight differance) i actually weighed the assembly today just to see, the spindle is 1450.42 Grams and the hub with studs is 3718.31 grams. One is billet with the original bearings. the price is virtually the same. we have a few sets in stock with 250 on order.

so you are free to decide, the ATS spindle has 4 years of actual use and "I" have never heard of any issues. there are approx 500 units in the market right now (that i know of)

just more info to make an informed buying decision.

[L & H Kustoms]

...... one advantage that people don't think of is the lack of an actual spindle, nut and cap, this can allow a much thinner wheel mounting pad which will FAR out weigh the .4lb of weight differance

This would be a true statement if the caliper face to wheel spoke clearance wasnt taken into consideration. The brakes (caliper & rotor offset) being used determine the thickness of the wheel mounting pad not the spindle, nut and cap or lack there of which having nothing to do with the wheel mounting pad thickness.

another plus with our Pro Billet™ spindles is that they come standard anodized black to prevent corrosion and the afx spindle doesn't have any corrosion protection as they come raw.... just a little more info to make an informed decision

[BMR Tech]

:box:

Ok, both products are good - both provide improved geometry, both are stronger than stock, both are lighter than stock, priced practically the same (when equally equipped). With one you have the option of simply bolting it on without any further expense. It allows the user to upgrade at a later time so the initial expense is reduced, plus if you have already purchased big brakes more than likely you can keep them. The other option costs more initially but IMO has a much stronger bearing pack designed by an OEM for high speed operation. It also has a much larger mounting surface to distribute the wheel load better. Again, these are just my opinions based on observation and publicized info. Are these features necessary to "every" consumer? No, but there are options now so it doesn't really matter. So whichever one you choose for whatever reason I am sure you will be happy with it. One is not a substitute for the other, though...

[93Polo]

I am slowly collecting parts for my 70 Chevelle build and went with the AFX for many of the reasons Brett mentioned. Geometry between, L&H, AFX, and the tall ball joint maybe a toss up. Tall ball joints never did sit well with me. I do like that the AFX is forged. A properly made billet unit is strong but the price difference must be substantial. However, what sealed it for me was running C5 bearing packs and the ability to run most C5/6 brake packages. I can always get high quality OEM parts as needed.

I do love seeing the options pop up especially for us A body guys. I remember jumping on 8 years ago and seeing 99% f-bodies. Keep up the work both of you.

[another69]

L&H coming on strong- I like it ! Obviously alot of confidence in what you make. The competition is great- it weeds out alot of the cheap poser stuff of some of the other manufacturers out there.

[L & H Kustoms]

L&H coming on strong- I like it ! Obviously alot of confidence in what you make. The competition is great- it weeds out alot of the cheap poser stuff of some of the other manufacturers out there.

Thanks for the compliment I have full confidence in our products. we have done our homework, Done our destructive testing and brought to market what no one else offers. I began the spindle design almost 4 years ago because I wanted a tall non drop spindle and no one made it. So I started working on it for my own car and one thing has led to another and here we are. When it began I planned on a design that I would feel confident in driving around with my family and safety is my #1 priority. I have over 13k hard driven miles on them with no issues whatsoever. I never originally planned on marketing or selling them but as an active forum member I kept seeing posts about people wanting a tall non drop spindle so thats when I began all the professional engineering and hiring 2 seperate engineering firms to ensure the design would be a safe design for the general public. I have PE stamps from 2 engineers. A majority of the companies in this industry do not have even one PE stamp for any of their products nor do they even test them prior to releasing them for sale to the general public.

[chicane67]

On a side note...

Anodizing is a great way to prevent corrosion... but it has attributes that are less appealing. The major one being, that it hides the propagation of cracks from stress risers and elastic deformation over its cyclic lifetime. It has been more advantageous to just paint them as it would serve the same purpose... but you can actually take the paint off in a non destructive way and check for the stated failure modes. Not so for anodizing. Another point to mention, is that you have to increase your tolerances for the anodizing which makes it a non standard dimension in some relative cases... but now we are getting into the semantics of the discussion.

I for one however... would like to see/hear about the test method applied, the test TOA and read the actual results of said destructive testing... up to and including any (if any) FEA was accomplished on the individual parts and the assembly as a whole.

Don't read this as me calling you out... I ask the same questions to every manufacturer... and thus far, only two have been able to provide such data. Having PE stamps is only applicable when you can actually trust the specific PE with more than a rubber stamp... because I know some that I would not trust with a screwdriver.

Lastly... are you planning on implementing a WSS anytime in the future ?? Just wondering... it could open up some future doors...

:)

[lh_kustoms]

Tom We offer anodizing due to all the requests for it but we do also offer the spindles raw if the consumer would like them that way. When I was looking for engineers I did a lot of research and the 2 that I hired one designs and mfg's awd hyabusa powered mini indy cars and the other designs aircraft landing gear for one of the largest aerospace design firms. They are both serious gearheads. as far as the WSS we are working on coming out with a WSS package for those that would like to add that option.

[83hurstguy]

Blake The afx spindle broke at the lower balljoint with just over 26k lbs of force applied during the destructive testing. During our destructive testing our Pro Billet™ spindles did not break with 50k lbs of force being applied. Yes it did deform but it did not break or have any cracks.

I'm not posting this to stir up any issues, and I'm not promoting or putting down either company here...

I interned in chassis design for one of the Big 3, and when testing cars to look for suspension failures, there are two types of results we wanted:
1. Catastrophic (meaning something breaks, preferably disabling the car).
2. No failure.

Having something significantly yield (with deformation) before complete failure is a big issue, because people tend not to check their car out thoroughly after they hit a pothole, etc...

So to say something fails after significant yielding makes me feel less comfortable with a product (that's NOT saying I have an issue with yours). I understand it's a material property inherent with certain material types and manufacturing techniques, but it was something we looked for, especially when it came to testing for potholes or curbs.

Feel free to flame away/disagree. I am usually concerned with a yielding point constituting failure, and having the tensile strength (failure) point close to yield can be a benefit. Just my .02...